Virginia Tech School Shooting

[Scheetz]

well the shooting is a bit ironic with the attempted law that was trying to be passed. Pay attention to the bold text.

31stGun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.
By Greg Esposito
381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.

Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.

Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.

In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.



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I sincerely hope they don't think this is a call for ban of all weapons. Thankfully even the Liberals are for CCW right now. As a Virginia college student and CCW I wish they would allow the carry on campus. There are alot of shady people that hang around college campuses, you never know what is going on in their head when they are staring you down. The anti-gun nuts have come out blaming it on the fact that we have guns that are able to be bought. Now Europe is jumping in saying we should ban all weapons like they have. Yeah, way to go Australia and UK. You sure knocked down your crime and death rate . Now all your kids wear knife proof vests because a stabbing occurs everyday. Congratulations, you sure set up a grand lifestyle.

I think Rush Limbaugh said it best just recently:

"Let's ban all immigration, legal and illegal. Doesn't that make as much sense as saying, 'Ban all guns'?"


Funny, the biggest school shooting in history was created by a kid on a visa who has lived in this country for 6 months. It must be the Americans fault for all this...

[.cOLt.45.]

A post earlier up was talking about the dispatch..I think it was korn...Shes right, 2 hours? I couldve gotten there faster on a damn bike let alone a car.


I think selective people should be allowed to have concealed weapons... Primarily, no ex-cons, insane, or any people with a past of criminal behavior. I also think that the people given the guns should have to go through rigorous training to train them to take out the gunman...


If more people had guns there would be less shootings.. I know it sounds messed up but... Lets say you are at a school, some lunatic (such as this guy) pulls out a gun and starts waving it around. If noone was allowed to have guns would he feel empowered? and if half the kids at that school had a gun would he have done it?? It would have lessened the death toll... Instead of being lined up on their knees they could at least try to defend themselves, and have a good chance to do so. Now im not saying give everyone an AK or a shotgun...maybe just a small compact pistol, .38 snubnose... something like that..


Back to my original point
Scenario A. No guns allowed. Man walks up with a gun , tells everyone to line up. Massacre
Scenario B. Concealed Weapons allowed. Man walks up with gun, tells everyone to line up. Someone pulls out their gun and takes him out
32 lives saved.
Now i do realise that we would be taking a risk...however with the massacres happening. It seems like a reasonable option.

[Lakemonster]

[cemab4y]

I used to live in Lynchburg VA, and I am just ill about this shooting. I hope that we do not get into another gun control debate. Just focus on the scum-bag perpetrator.

[.cOLt.45.]

not much we can do about him now... coward shot himself...
now we gotta worry about the future

[LuxOR541]

See, that right there is why no amount of government regulation or band aid security measures will deter this sort of thing from happening again. When the perpetrator is willing to or expecting to die to achieve their goals, that trumps any and all countermeasures other than a quick and equally violent response once the act has occurred. Someone resolute on killing as many people as they can before then ending their own life cannot be reasoned with. The only thing that can be done is to end the conflict as quickly as possible to minimize the body count.

Obviously someone in this kids mental state does not give a flying fuck anymore about what happens to himself... there's no deterrent. Even the possibility that someone else is armed isn't really a deterrent, it's just a solution.

Every law abiding citizen in America has the right to arm themselves. Some folks abuse that right. That is why if you choose to exercise your right to arm yourselves, you MUST exercise the responsibility to be proficient with your weapon. Too many people take the 3 hour class to get their CHL, shoot 50-100 rounds on the range, and stick their gun in a holster and forget about it. People who don't train with their handguns help make the argument against CCW.

Nick

P.S. I keep a Glock 23 on my hip and an evil black rifle in my trunk. Not because I'm paranoid, only because everyones always trying to get their hands on me lucky charms...... Edited April 18, 2007 by LuxOR541

[Scheetz]

I am liking those Lake. I'll add.

[Scheetz]

I think selective people should be allowed to have concealed weapons... Primarily, no ex-cons, insane, or any people with a past of criminal behavior. I also think that the people given the guns should have to go through rigorous training to train them to take out the gunman...

People you just listed can not legally purchase firearms as it is right now. If you have a Felony on your record you can not buy. Some states require you to take certain classes others dont care what firearm class you take as long as you take something.


This is something if we could carry on campus we would be good to go. Unfortunately I cant either. So I have to leave it locked up in a safe place.

If carry was allowed I think someone in the dorm where the first shootin occured would have ended it. 2 dead, the girl unfortunately and the shooter.

[The King]

If everyone carried guns, it would stop a man from doing a shooting rampage. But I can't help to think that It would also just end up in more every-day violence. Just little fights like road rage and stuff could result in one person pulling their gun to intimidate them...then the other pulls their gun and shoots. Its just a shitty situation, There's no solution to stop the random insane people

[LuxOR541]

If everyone carried guns, it would stop a man from doing a shooting rampage. But I can't help to think that It would also just end up in more every-day violence. Just little fights like road rage and stuff could result in one person pulling their gun to intimidate them...then the other pulls their gun and shoots. Its just a shitty situation, There's no solution to stop the random insane people

As with everything else, training and attitude is a big deal. Any GOOD firearms instructor will teach you that if you pull your gun to intimidate you deserve to get shot. And I fully agree. It's a deadly weapon. it's a last resort. I don't let anyone know that I am carrying because i know that in a bad situation it makes me an instant target, and endangers those that I am with. Brandishing is a crime, and is a big no-no. If you are going to pull your gun, you'd better be in a situation where you actually believe you are in imminent danger. Honestly, I would rather face an idiot wielding a gun than an idiot wielding a knife. With the proper skills, you can disarm someone with a gun. You can disarm someone with a knife too, but there will most likely be blood. I'm a big fan of the Israeli martial art form Krav Maga.

Those who are licensed to carry have been educated on the laws of concealed carry, and are probably the people least likely to fly off the handle and misuse their weapon.

if anyone is interested in concealed carry laws check out packing.org there is a lot of info and a good forum over there.

Back to the VA shooting, I'm sure there were many steps along the way that someone could have helped this kid. It's another case of ignoring a problem hoping it will go away. This kid didn't just go to bed one night thinking the world is a great place, and wake up the next morning and say, "oh yeah, it's monday. I almost forgot I need to kill a bunch of people today." We don't need the government to fix this problem, WE need to fix this problem by paying a bit more attention to the disenfrachised and asking what WE can do to help.

[Lakemonster]

Those who are licensed to carry have been educated on the laws of concealed carry, and are probably the people least likely to fly off the handle and misuse their weapon.

True.

Depending on the State of Issuance, there are laws that effect the licence holder. Licence holders are usually held to a higher standard by law.

For instance, in the State of Texas.

1. If you owe back taxes you are inellegeable for the licence. Thats how strict the background check is.

2. Licence holders face jail time and/or fines if the firearm becomes exposed in public (even by accident)

3. The State of Texas does not grant you immunity if you injur or kill a bystander in the process of defending yourself or others with your firearm.

You have to maintain a vigil, a constant sense of awareness and responsibility.

I think its about time to open a side debate on the issue..... Ima go smoke a cigarette and open a seperate thread on the issue of guns on school campuses.

[LuxOR541]

wow I just read that the shooter spent his 2 hours between shootings mailing a package to NBC with "disturbing contents". Wonder what was in it?

Maybe this will give some clues as to motive.

[LuxOR541]

maybe if someone had just offered to sit down and smoke hookah with this kid this all could have been prevented.

[Scheetz]

Those who are licensed to carry have been educated on the laws of concealed carry, and are probably the people least likely to fly off the handle and misuse their weapon.

True.

Depending on the State of Issuance, there are laws that effect the licence holder. Licence holders are usually held to a higher standard by law.

For instance, in the State of Texas.

1. If you owe back taxes you are inellegeable for the licence. Thats how strict the background check is.

2. Licence holders face jail time and/or fines if the firearm becomes exposed in public (even by accident)

3. The State of Texas does not grant you immunity if you injur or kill a bystander in the process of defending yourself or others with your firearm.

You have to maintain a vigil, a constant sense of awareness and responsibility.

I think its about time to open a side debate on the issue..... Ima go smoke a cigarette and open a seperate thread on the issue of guns on school campuses.

I thought texas has open carry?? Because if your gun is shown then it becomes open carry. Well in a form it does. Just in VA if someone sees your firearm then they call the LEO's who give you the run down of questions then sit down and talk guns with you for a few minutes then tell you to have a nice day.

[ShishaFred]

Do you really think RAs with guns could stop it all ? Unless the RAs are all war veterans , I don't think they will be able to shoot down people just like that. I think the killed who already shot down 15+ student will have no difficulty in killing , or attempting to kill the RA. He already planned to suicide at the end , so I don't think a gun pointed at him will scare him much.

Remove guns , don't widely distribute them.

[Scheetz]

Do you really think RAs with guns could stop it all ? Unless the RAs are all war veterans , I don't think they will be able to shoot down people just like that. I think the killed who already shot down 15+ student will have no difficulty in killing , or attempting to kill the RA. He already planned to suicide at the end , so I don't think a gun pointed at him will scare him much.

Remove guns , don't widely distribute them.

Hrmmmmmmmm.................. While I am not trying to bash you in anyway. I just want to point out that you are looking from the outside. From the location of your user name you are Canadian. I do not have anything against the northerners but from everyone from Canada that has made a comment they seem to think the answer is removing firearms in general. Now, before you make a comment to my answer, you need to seriously take a look at your own country and see if removal of firearms really did anything. If you think they did, I suggest you take a look at your stats and realize that it has done nothing.

You need to understand also that in order to receive your CCW in VA you need to take a class. This means that the people carrying are practicing shooting and are generally great shots. You do not need said war veteran for anything. I have never been to war, but I sure can put a .45 through 5 inch groups at 50 yards. This man was a fluke in our system. You can not protect yourself from flukes, just like you can not stop yourself from catching a cold or the flu.

[azcoyote]

Do you really think RAs with guns could stop it all ? Unless the RAs are all war veterans , I don't think they will be able to shoot down people just like that. I think the killed who already shot down 15+ student will have no difficulty in killing , or attempting to kill the RA. He already planned to suicide at the end , so I don't think a gun pointed at him will scare him much.

Remove guns , don't widely distribute them.

Hrmmmmmmmm.................. While I am not trying to bash you in anyway. I just want to point out that you are looking from the outside. From the location of your user name you are Canadian. I do not have anything against the northerners but from everyone from Canada that has made a comment they seem to think the answer is removing firearms in general. Now, before you make a comment to my answer, you need to seriously take a look at your own country and see if removal of firearms really did anything. If you think they did, I suggest you take a look at your stats and realize that it has done nothing.

You need to understand also that in order to receive your CCW in VA you need to take a class. This means that the people carrying are practicing shooting and are generally great shots. You do not need said war veteran for anything. I have never been to war, but I sure can put a .45 through 5 inch groups at 50 yards. This man was a fluke in our system. You can not protect yourself from flukes, just like you can not stop yourself from catching a cold or the flu.

Nice shooting Sheetz! Most defensive shooting is done at under ten yards so you should be able to hit a bad guy without a two hand grip at that distance. I train for one hand shooting in case that's all I have available at a critical moment. I learned olympic style target pistol with an airgun and have worked up through .22's, 9mm and currently on my newest piece, . a CZ-75b in 40s&w. Damn accurate gun.

Yesterday after work I was driving home on a two lane road and a couple young people where tailgating my truck with their little sub compact. This went on for a few minutes until I reached behind the truck seat and pulled out a 7 iron which I keep on hand for pitch and putt - or social work. Anyway the driver must have seen it, because he immediately backed off and followed at a respectful distance. It's amazing how differently people behave when they know you are prepared to defend yourself. You have to cultivate a "let's roll" mentality or reconcile yourself to victimhood. While aiming out the window at human targets, the VT shooter was vulnerable from behind. The RA or anyone present didn't even need a gun to stop the dude. A 7-iron or even a can of soup in a pillowcase could have ended things right quick in the hands of a clear thinking person with a scintilla of nerve. That how I see it anyways.

[LuxOR541]

yeah being prepared is the key to safety. Not just having the tools but the mental ability to function in times of extreme stress.

We do drills of running laps around the range to get the heart rate up, spinning around to make us dizzy, then start a timer and take cover, acquire target, fire. Also learning to shoot strong hand, weak hand, while moving, at moving targets, etc.

Because usually someone isn't going to stand and wait for you to get ready before they attack you, and shit always goes down when you are most vulnerable.

I agree someone probably could have taken him out. A group could have rushed him. BUT, I have to respect their decision to just get the hell out of there too. That's what the media and society has trained them to do.... "don't be a hero".... "wait for help to arrive" well, sometimes help comes too late.

[MN Hookah]

We had a bomb scare on campus yesterday, crazy stuff....They wouldn't allow anyone to congregate outside for fear of the bomb threat being used to draw people out in the open. The shooting definately get you thinking while you're sitting in class.
http://www1.umn.edu/twincities/09_emergency_20070419.php

As for CC, since Minnesota changed the guidelines to allow law abiding citizens to carry there has only been 1 death attributed to CC, and it was in self defense with no charges being filed against the person carry. In contrast the light rail transit system which came into being around the same time has killed 3 people so far.... As for crime statistics violent crime is down like it is nation wide, but not as much as thought when the legislation was enacted, but it has not increased because of it. As for the University of Minnesota, CC is banned under threat of expulsion/legal action, but I wonder if we'll see some change in that sometime soon here.

[LuxOR541]

It's kinda like hookah....

isn't it frustrating how although you are being responsible with something and using it as it was intended, the stigma of it is that you are doing something wrong?

So let's prevent everyone from making the choice to smoke hookah because some people use them for illegal purposes.

Either way the blame for all of it... the deaths, the politics that will inevitably arise from it, any decreased liberty that you and I might suffer because of this, lies solely with the shooter.

Sure it could have been prevented many ways, but in the end, everyone is responsible for their own actions. That was the path he chose. He unfortunately took a lot of people with him. I hope that he rots in hell. People will second guess everything, say "if only I'd done something" but i however will say "if only Cho Seung Hui wasn't a deranged piece of shit"

[Scarecrow]

I live in Canada and in Montreal, Canada's school shootings capital. We're all brainwashed over here into thinking banning everything will end up legislating peace and love, so I wouldnt put too much faith in what most of my fellow Canadians say. Somehow magical gun registration was meant to stop school shootings, and just a few months ago a guy with a registered gun killed a woman in a school and injured a bunch more and the media is still saying how registration will save lives.... Just like how registration keeps your car from hitting people... What a dumb country I live in.

Anyhow CCL is the only solution to school shootings, it isnt about scaring the shooter, its about stopping him dead even if at the day he would have killed 30 instead of 31 it would be worth it.

[Scheetz]

It's kinda like hookah....

isn't it frustrating how although you are being responsible with something and using it as it was intended, the stigma of it is that you are doing something wrong?

So let's prevent everyone from making the choice to smoke hookah because some people use them for illegal purposes.

speaking of which. At ODU hookahs were not banned until last week. Some jackasses got caught smoking weed in their dorm with it and they did a search of others who had them and they all came up with pot residue. Glad I dont live on campus, but no more smoking outside.

[Lakemonster]

Alas...... Texas is not an open carry State....

Its a left over law from Reconstruction era..... and one formed from a few city ordinances back in cattle drive days to keep drunken hands from shooting up the town. Its no longer the 1870's.... and the streetlights have nothing to fear these days.

But, technically you can walk down the sidewalk with an assault rifle or shotgun if you wanted.... but Im sure you'd get hassled.

[ghostofdavid]

We have open carry in Indiana.

[azcoyote]

We have open carry in Indiana.

Same in AZ. I've noticed you get more courteous treatment in traffic on a motorcycle when packin' than when not. Like magic! Come to think of it, I think I get better service in restaurants too. People are funny. I should carry more often.