Contradictions

[nofrendo]

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/13/4/327

“Waterpipe use likely increases the risk of bronchogenic carcinoma [68] as well as lung [16,20,69] oral,[8] and bladder [21,70] cancers.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookah#Style_and_health

A survey of 25 men with bronchogenic carcinoma in India found that 22 were narghile smokers.25 A case-control study of 214 Chinese tin miners found a twofold risk for lung cancer among those who had ever used water pipes compared with nonsmokers and a dose-response relation with increasing pipe-year usage. WPS was associated with esophageal and gastric carcinoma in a preliminary survey from Yemen.A case-control study of bladder cancer patients in Egypt showed no difference in rates between water-pipe smokers and nonsmokers.

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/13/4/327#267
"In blatant opposition to the above interpretation, the two cited researchers clearly said from the outset how they surprisingly noticed that “there [was] an eightfold difference between the lowest lung cancer mortality rate for the immigrants [Jews] from Yemen [a majority of them being hookah smokers] and the highest for the immigrants from Europe [50% were smokers and most of them were cigarette users].” This strange fact led them to analyse the tar filtering properties of narghile (results: 84mg for 10g of tobacco ; 161mg without water in the vase). As it was not enough to explain the low rates they observed, they discussed, among other matters, the influence of inhalation patterns and the question of temperature."

"Many other references not cited in this review tend to show that hookah actually reduces the risk of lung cancer. Should we also add that Rakower and his colleague were talking about was “tumbâk” which contains much more nicotine than the one (tobamel) which is gradually swamping the world? Or that the same hookah used by Yemenis (mada’a) is usually topped with tons of charcoal?"

"The other cited reference (#16) is Lubin JH et al. (Quantitative evaluation of the radon and lung cancer association in a case control study of Chinese tin miners. Cancer Res 1990; 50:174–80). But we are not told that the same Lubin, only two years later, concluded another study by : [water] “pipe smoking may be less deleterious than cigarette smoking. The reasons for this are unclear, but may be due to the filtration action of the water bath or to less vigorous inhalation of pipe smoke”. (Lubin JH, Li JY, Xuan XZ, Cai SK, Luo; Yang QS, Wang JZ, Yang L; Blot WJ. Risk of lung cancer among cigarette and pipe smokers in southern China. Int. J. of Cancer 1992; 51 (3)3: 390-5.)"

"A fair number of the cited references relies on a previous, also US-funded, Egypt-based review (**) which is actually a mix of Medline abstracts and summaries of local documents. The authors of the last report pretend that “many of the studies on these subjects [i.e. hookah use] are merely anecdotal or lack the necessary rigorous study design or the power needed to be certain of the results.” (Radwan)"

"Rigour, that’s the word. This new “review” tells us about its one-year “precursor” that it “focused on Egyptian waterpipe research”. I am sorry to say that this is a wrong statement because the scope of the latter was going far beyond Egypt and was as wide as the new one. This has to be said from an ethical point of view: the modest researchers of the American-Egyptian team (ESPRI Centre) should deserve our respect for their work and its scope. Besides, it must be clear that both their document and the new one, we are talking about now, contain errors, the latter however to a greater extent."

"This new review also emphasises the fact that it is 'comprehensive' and 'critical'. However, let’s point out that key references (*) are strangely absent in this document not to mention the best introduction to the issue : a 420 page multi-disciplinary doctoral thesis the abstract of which has been widely advertised over the past years among the tobacco control community and Globalink members. This work contains the 4 first reviews in sociology, anthropology, history and tobaccology (health and pharmacological aspects) concerning hookah/narghile use."




It's almost as if they said "We know that Hookahs are dangerous, because we don't like them. Now let's 'prove' it"




In reference to the same study:


It would have been more respectful and relevant to quote the existence of that document. As for the “criticical” side, the reader of that document will be informed of what happened to an unlucky fellow who used a hookah: aspergillosis… without knowing that the poor man did not change the water of his hookah for weeks… Effectively, the authors did not deem it necessary to bring out such a “detail”. For those who don’t know how a hookah is served, let us make it clear here that the water inside the vase is changed at the end of each session.




So change your water!!!




Damn this pisses me off... Whoever is right, doesn't even matter... it's that there's this GLARING, DIRECT contradiction... and I have a feeling that the data are being manipulated by (possibly) both sides in order to achieve the correct result.

[mushrat]

you THINK???

[nofrendo]

As far as that 22/25 were hookah smokers... that's like saying in America:

"We conducted a thorough study of 500 women with breast cancer. Our findings were SHOCKING, as 496 of them reported that their breasts had been massaged, cradled, or otherwise touched in the past year by a member of the opposite sex"

Of course, you shouldn't draw the conclusion that having your breasts touched causes breast cancer... but the way that it is worded is strongly suggestive of it

Dang

[ioannisds]

As far as that 22/25 were hookah smokers... that's like saying in America:

"We conducted a thorough study of 500 women with breast cancer. Our findings were SHOCKING, as 496 of them reported that their breasts had been massaged, cradled, or otherwise touched in the past year by a member of the opposite sex"

Of course, you shouldn't draw the conclusion that having your breasts touched causes breast cancer... but the way that it is worded is strongly suggestive of it

Dang

Hahahahahaha... that's exactly the type of thing I was gonna say. And, I like breasts.

[Johnny_D]

you THINK???

I blame you americans and your litigatious ways

But seriously...... There are some dumb dumb people on this planet.

JD

[nofrendo]

The attitude of some americans (me) toward america: The laws are ridiculous, the people are ignorant, no one can drive, the president is semi-literate, our national deficit is in the trillions, we are living in hipocrisy (USA PATRIOT act vs. U.S. Constitution)... But the rest of the world sure seems to suck more... I would move to Canada but I can't stand cold weather...


no offense to anyone who lives in 'the rest of the world.' All 5.8 billion of you.

[Johnny_D]

The attitude of some americans (me) toward america: The laws are ridiculous, the people are ignorant, no one can drive, the president is semi-literate, our national deficit is in the trillions, we are living in hipocrisy (USA PATRIOT act vs. U.S. Constitution)... But the rest of the world sure seems to suck more... I would move to Canada but I can't stand cold weather...


no offense to anyone who lives in 'the rest of the world.' All 5.8 billion of you.

From the rest of the world :- Your pritty much right. Apart from australia. I could live in Australia. But that's about it.

JD

[nofrendo]

Those accents would get to me. I think my accent probably sounds really funny to non americans... or even to people from the east coast... I never really heard my own accent until someone exaggerated it for me.


I was reading that canadian people don't get the joke when Americans say 'aboot'... it is an exaggeration of how they actually say it, which is (exactly) a-boat.

[angemonkwj]

As far as that 22/25 were hookah smokers... that's like saying in America:

"We conducted a thorough study of 500 women with breast cancer. Our findings were SHOCKING, as 496 of them reported that their breasts had been massaged, cradled, or otherwise touched in the past year by a member of the opposite sex"

Of course, you shouldn't draw the conclusion that having your breasts touched causes breast cancer... but the way that it is worded is strongly suggestive of it

Dang

that is the funniest thing i've read in a long time. now on a serious note, as an american, i also think that a lot of our laws and regulations are extremely retarded and should be either eliminated or at the very least evaluated and re-written. perfect example, i was just reading the topic about mushy's new bar and someone asked what the limit of people was. he said that he had to list it as mass ocupancy of 30 people or there had to be "non-smoking" section.....c'mon now. a non-smoking section in a hookah bar. who makes this stuff up?

[EvansLight]

Interesting fun fact: your chance of getting lung cancer from average smoking (cigarettes) is 8%... 8 BLOODY PERCENT!!!

The hookah, while it does deliver more nicotine and you smoke more and harder while smoking, does not contain any of the additives that cigg companies put in em to get you to keep coming back.

Its not healthy for you, then breathing in smoggy air isn't either, and i don't see em em banning cars anytime soon XD (your at more risk from lung cancer from a smog filled environment then hookah). Its to me alot like certain other things, the best stuff ain't made here, so they can only tax it, and we as a people are greedy bastards, so there going to try and throw every study they can to show its killing everyone.

[oggie505#2]

I blame you americans and your litigatious ways tongue.gif

But seriously...... There are some dumb dumb people on this planet.

JD

1+

[Sonthert]

In China and in India, they smoke and burn actual tobacco (To ash, at hotter temperatures)...we just vaporize.

They keep using these kinds of statistics, based on hookahs in rural countries, who literally burn tobacco and assume that they apply to modern hookah smoking. Their sample sizes are small, too. (Well in the Indian Study) Why survey tin miners anyways?

[DrunkenWizard]

We're all going to die anyways so you might as well enjoy!!

[ezie]

We're all going to die anyways so you might as well enjoy!!

good point there i totally agree with you so enjoy it while you can