Can You Take Any More God?

[azcoyote]

I don't think our viewpoints are really all that different. Personally I don't see how a religion can exist apart from the people who practice it. Perhaps in another dimension. Pretty hard to look for it there. Anyway, I really have nothing more to say on the subject. Insidious, I haven't read all your posts, but from what I read I consider you to be a thoughtful and well-intentioned person. Sometimes I find your tone a bit pedantic but on balance I'm glad you're participating here and hope you continue.

[james]

Although, I'm not sure of a single valid religion that requires or even asks its followers to kill their fellow man.

Leviticus much?

Can you be more specific?

If someone has premarital sex, they should be stoned to death and left on their fathers doorstep. Similar for gays. Leviticus is some cold shit yo.

[jonny_lech]

Although, I'm not sure of a single valid religion that requires or even asks its followers to kill their fellow man.

Leviticus much?

Can you be more specific?

If someone has premarital sex, they should be stoned to death and left on their fathers doorstep. Similar for gays. Leviticus is some cold shit yo.

Having gone down this path of argumentation before, what I can see this becoming stupid.

But I will make two points, provided this doesn't become stupid.

#1 I remember adultery being a stoning offense. Not pre-marital sex. My recollection was that according to Leviticus that if two people who were both unmarried had sex that they were then married. This is actually a fairly practical law at making sure children have someone to provide for them in a time before birth control.

Anyway, making claims about the content of a work without providing citation is bad form. Providing citation
A.) proves the veracity of your claim,
B.) allows others to make counter-arguments, especially regarding context.

I'm willing to concede that my recollection is faulty if you're willing to provide a etymologically sound citation.

#2 Without going into the theological soundness of it, most modern Christians regard abolishment of many of the laws of Leviticus and the harsh punishments contained therein to be central to their faith. Edited July 8, 2007 by jonny_lech

[ghostofdavid]

"Have fun with the Gentiles, but Marry the Jew." Not biblical, but contained in the talmud.

Sex was very double-standard in the ancient world. Not specific to Jew, Babylonian, or Arcadian. Women were expected to be virgins until they were married. Men were legally "allowed" to plow the fields, as long as it was not with another man's wife.

Fast forward a lot and Jesus cites that his midrash, or teaching, is that any many who has looked on another man's wife with his eyes is committing metaphysical adultery.

The Apostle Paul said that sex was an intensely metaphysical intimate act and that no one should partake of it unless they are married. This stems from the practice that horny 1st century Christians were going to temple prostitutes of other religions and banging them. Paul says that this isn't kosher because your metaphysical self is committing two wrongs. The first is that you are worshiping outside the community of Christianity and the One-God-ism of monism Christianity. Secondly, Paul believed that each Christian had within them the "spark of the divine" (Holy Spirit) and that he considered it sinful to have sex with someone outside of your faith, of the same sex, or who wasn't your wife. He was big into the call of monogamous purity.

Modern Christians have very little knowledge of their faith's roots in Judaism.

The Apostle Paul seemed to think that his interpretation of Christianity wasn't the abolishment of Lev. but the fulfillment of Lev.

Being a modern Christian is somewhat awkward. Pop culture Christianity is embarrassing. One has to sort through two thousand years of erroneous claims and behaviors. The church used to be the source of science and now it often seems embarrassingly against it. "Jeezyus" ain't my big sugar daddy in the sky and giving money to the church isn't the path of salvation.

I'm an Evangelic (in the pure sense of the word, not in the liberal talk show media definition) nondenominational Christian. I interpret (with the realization that everything I believe in could potentially be erroneous) my faith as hard to describe. I extol to my fellow man the treatment that I wish people would treat me with. I want to love my enemies as well as I love my brothers and sisters.

People should be allowed to live as they want within reason of the founding father of the United States' definition (but not always their example).

We're all children of God, or if you are inclined, children of the same circumstances... we rarely treat each other with that respect. I happen to place my belief in a 2000 year old murdered Jewish guy. If what happened has actually happened, he's been good to me... how dare I not return the favor.

Pragmatically, if I am wrong, I still lived a good life in spite of the "wrongness" of it.

If I may share a bit of introspective thought... being a modern Christian is a bit like having a raging alcoholic abusive relative. You show up to the same places. They make a fool out of themselves and you smile weakly empathizing with the drunk who doesn't know better (but should) and apologize to others on behalf of their actions. The metaphorical drunk stomps around, turns over tables, shits on fancy furniture and insults guests and leaves after making sure everyone knows just how he feels about something. Then it is usually my job to clean it all up, apologize for the mess and try to explain to everyone that my family (read: faith) isn't really all that bad. You'd like to change your name, but because of love for your family, you can't. So you continue to live that way because you think it is right in hopes that maybe someone else somewhere down the road will appreciate what you do and want to emulate your behaviour, all the while doing what you can to help reform your drunken relative.

So on behalf of Christians of all stripes and colours everywhere, I apologize for the mess and please excuse the mess while I do my best to clean up their mess.

P.S. Sometimes, I am the one who is the problem.

[Sonthert]

Carl Sagan's logic is, which I share, is:

There are a great many gods as religious books tell us. Look at the christian god, compared to the Babylonian gods. Each has a creation story, but they differ greatly. They couldn't possible be both true. Therefore, it would be logical one was the invention of the priests, a false religion. They would explain why one differs from the other. It would be just as easy if one were false, that the other were false.

It amazes me that so many people believe that one religion is the true religion. Its absurd and egotistical.

Re: Penn Jillette's elephant. I can't prove that there is no god, Penn Jillette says, in the same way I can't prove that there isn't an elephant in the trunk of your car.

Your assertion that there is a god, without any logical or empirical proof makes your statement unprovable either direction.

[Hearsay]

This post isn't necessarily in tune with the majority of posts in this thread, but is obviously related to religion.

I am sick of God. I am tired of people that attempt to legislate morality. It's annoying that our country is so religious that in order to compete a presidential candidate must profess their strong faith. It's insane that religion can stop science that might improve or save lives. I hate that religious people will tell others what they can and cannot do, who they can and cannot marry. It's embarassing that a measure to teach Biblical creation in school can be brought to a vote.

I am clearly not religious. I think the "Moral Majority's" grip on America is unhealthy and needs to end. Nothing is more ridiculous to me than reading that a man like Vitter who espouses all sorts of moral sanction gets his rocks off regularly with prostitutes. Faith should stay where it belongs, with the individual, and it needs to back off society as a whole.

And the only thing the Vatican has invaded recently, as far as I know, are sizes 4-20 boys briefs.

[lilbrownindian]

Im not very religious at all to tell you the truth, but I always felt that the gods that we all believe in are parts of one great god, dunno who that great god is but I just think its our own view of just one great one.

[Rani]

I was raised a baptist from when i was born till 8
then my mother was remarried to a muslim man and after a while i converted to Islam
The other half of my family is Catholic

SO trust me ive had my exposure

i have spent the last 3 years of my life studying every religion i could get my hands on in my free time.

From Russian orthodox to satanism ive learned what they all try and show you

and ive honestly come to the conclusion that i really dont want any part of any relgion out there.

Maybe that makes me a bad person for "sitting the fence" but i do believe in something ,I believe in people. I dont believe that there is a big angry guy up there running the show.

But i do believe we cant just run around. I do believe in carma in a sense but not in the literal way. Its hard to explain but the point being

We are all just on a journey here who are you to say who's right and who's wrong

There is God and there is religion. I do not find the two mutually compatible as most religion is practiced today. I do find the existence of the divine is part of my reality. I can sense it, feel it, even converse with it through meditation and ritual in the ways of my ancestors. Each person must find their own divine but it doesn't exist in any church. It exists only within ourselves and it's impact in our lives. If you are looking for dogma, control, and repression as well as social acceptance and fellowship, you will find that in religion. If you are looking for the divine you will find that only within yourself as you open yourself to it. There you find understanding, compassion, and unity with the essence of the divine. The answer has never been without. It has always been within.

'Rani

[Sonthert]

Yes, but if god is reduced down to a feeling, how can you reasonably say that its not just something else, the godhead of your mind or whatnot? Everybody has that "superego" presence (at least what Freud called it) in their head, you call it god, I call it my inner presence. Its part of each of us, not a divinity. Crystal-meth abusers often mention talking to god...should everyone looking for divine inspiration then go become a crystal-meth user? A very particular chemical imbalance causes it...so its really just in their head...how can somebody tell the difference?

[PerznPerversion]

Agnostic ftw!

But honestly ive been hearing alot lately in this chat i usually go in. Theyre a bunch of atheists and such but quantum physics guy mentioned that there indeed is a god if you do truly beleve in it. That thought process can make it real. I cant say what he said word for word cuz of my bad memory of it but he might have a point?

i have to agree with sonthert, you cant prove that there is and u cant prove that there isnt. theists and atheists are very arrogant people, and alot of them are assholes if you do not agree with them. cant we all just accept eachothers beliefs

[Rani]

Yes, but if god is reduced down to a feeling, how can you reasonably say that its not just something else, the godhead of your mind or whatnot? Everybody has that "superego" presence (at least what Freud called it) in their head, you call it god, I call it my inner presence. Its part of each of us, not a divinity. Crystal-meth abusers often mention talking to god...should everyone looking for divine inspiration then go become a crystal-meth user? A very particular chemical imbalance causes it...so its really just in their head...how can somebody tell the difference?

Ahh, but here is the thing.... What if the divine in it's omnipotence chooses to exist in our minds? In my ancestors way of thought, god is everything. Every being. Every blade of grass. Every animal. The air we breath. Right all the way down to the couch we sit on. Including our every thought. In my version of the divine, there is no difference. But we do not have absolute knowledge in this life of complete confirmation. When we pray do we pray to something outside ourselves, or do we pray to our own mental image of something outside outself that doesn't exist there but instead of inside us?

You mention crystal-meth. Does it create god in the mind of the user? Or open the gateway to allow them to see what was there all along? Again, there is no way to know for certain. I have a friend who was a heavy user. Sold it, used it, abused it. Her father, a medicine man of some Mexican tradition that I have never asked about, walked into her house without knowing she was using meth. He saw things that when he confronted her and she admitted her use, that were supposedly unleashed from her mind through the use of the drug. I wasn't there, I didn't witness them or her father. But I heard of it from her. She thought she was hallucinating because of the meth. Then where did her father's visions identically matching her hallucinations come from? Her father did by the way later confirm what she'd said to me. She'd rather die than use meth again because of what she believes she unleashed. There is no way to say she is wrong. Or for that matter right. You can sum it up simply by quoting: "There are more things between heaven and earth Horatio than contained within your philosophy." I probably have the quote off a bit, but I'm also certain it's pretty close.

The problem come about because traditonal religion has taught us not to trust ourselves and our senses. Trust a book even though it has chapters missing because they weren't in the accepted language of the time. Trust a man standing in front of a pulpit even though you have no idea what that man does in his private life and what kind of soul he truly possesses. Trust society and it's rules and regulations and laws. Whatever you do, don't trust yourself. Or you become outlaw, outcast, and pariah to society. Your boss looks at your funny, your co-worker tells everyone you dance naked in the moonlight, and they speculate about your sexuality. People have been fired for their religious beliefs. Long after they were not hired for their skin color or gender or sexual preference. Personally I'd still rather trust myself and what I think and feel and believe.

'Rani

[Sonthert]

Just because a person has a feeling that they are talking to or can sense god doesn't make it so. You might call it feeling good, I might call it an adrenaline rush or a sore toe. You define it is god and nobody can prove otherwise, because they can't see inside your head. Since you have given that name, god, to it, you believe in god, although there is no connection between the god in your head, the god in the bibley books and any reality. You want to believe its true and prove it to yourself because the terms you selected for it.

If you and I could split our feelings, in our brains, and project them for comparison on to a screen, we might find that we each have different terms for the same feelings, and different feelings representing similar terms. I call it love, you call it lust. I call it frustration, you call it anger, but what you call frustration is what I call anger. We just make up names for them, but whatever else may be true or false, that god is in your head. Whatever is in our heads is nothing more than an idea, the reality in there is what comes from our five senses, thats the only thing that has any rational backup for it.

[olooko]

According to one guy were all gonna go to heaven, if there is such a thing. Check it out I found this on entensity.com"


HELL EXPLAINED BY CHEMISTRY STUDENT

The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid term.
The answer by one student was so "profound" that the professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of course, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well:
Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant.

One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today.

Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.

This gives two possibilities:
1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

So which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, "It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you," and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct......leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting "Oh my God."

The student got an A.
"

[AlphaJuno]

After reading a couple of these threads and hearing the arguments from some of you 'god believers' calling evolution and atheism ridiculous, I ask you explain to me why the concept of god isn't equally ridiculous, if not more ludicrous. And if you can really provide me with empirical evidence, then explain to me who created god? And why should there only be one god? because the bible said so? If YOU think your right because your a Christian and my good friend Ali thinks hes right because hes a Muslim, and some guy in Greece thinks hes right because hes a pagan, doesn't that make all three of you wrong? I think that is the most logical explanation. And don't try and tell me "O i don't believe in the bible or scriptures but I believe in god". Don't think that sitting on the fence about god is going to guarantee you a passage to heaven. Better to make up your mind and live your life rather than let your fear control you and force you into believing a ridiculous concept just cause your scared you might go to hell. God is not watching over you, he is not controlling this earth and he is not in your head! sorry to be so objective but this is my whole hearted opinion after being a zombified Christian for 15 years.

You my friend, are under the false impression that you can compare faith and science. Edited October 17, 2007 by AlphaJuno

[Gaara]

Don't understand when people discuss religion to be honest. It never goes anywhere...

You either believe or you don't.

[ZenSilk]

I just think it's a way for people to accept death. What's so bad about dying when you just go to a perfect paradise?
Nothing. So what's the point of fearing death? You shouldn't. This isn't a bad thing at all. The majority lives short pointless lives, just to die and in 1000 years be forgotten. Now a millenium is barely anything when you think about time in general. So0 God is a way for people to accept the fact that they are no longer going to be alive, and if you follow God's rules you will be able to enter the gates of heaven.

Now, let's just take Religion into perspective. How about..... the Crusades? How many Muslims were killed...? and...why? Yes, you know, "In the name of God". Yeah, i agree, what a cool thing to say before you kill someone execution style. But how about killing millions of people because they don't believe what you believe, and they are expanding their religion into your territory, and you want back the place where Your Savior was killed (by you, mind you). Now, John Paul II , I say that he is the greatest Pope that ever lived. He apologized for the Crusades, a National Apology mind you. And how long did that take?? A Millenium?? For the Catholics and Christians to say "Oops, our bad. Sorry abotu that, we got a little carried away..." All because of God.

Now, take Jihad for example. Holy War. HOLY WAR???? Haha, that's kind of like "Civil War" , only much more retarded. OK, now what is the sixth commandment?? Ohhhh yes... Do Not Kill. It's simple, stated in a way anyone can understand. "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Hmm. So what the fuck is Holy war? What the fuck were the Crusades all about?????

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH yeah. I forgot, i'm not suppose to take the bible literally. My Bad. Ok, so what i should really take it to say is "Thou shalt not kill, unless the other man pisses the off. " So i'm gonna kill that guy cause he cut me off! Because he's in the place where i believe MY god died! I want it back! Ohh, you cannot have it back, it is our holy land!

How many religions are there? Lets just say the Mainstream ones, with the common belief of One All-Powerful God (not god(s) ). Christianity, Catholicism, Protestants, Islams, Jews, Hindus. I am not counting Buddhism in this list, because they don't obey One God; it is a way of life, a very peaceful, nature-loving, philosophical, cheerful way of life. Ok, now if each one says that in order to go to Heaven you have to obey their teachings, how is a Catholic going to get into Jew Heaven? He's not. So therefore, there has to be Many Different Gods for each single religion, One God and only one or no religion is actually correct, or No God.

Let me ask you... Has God influenced your life first hand? Don't give me any crap about saving your daughter's life because she had a brain tumor, that's modern medicine, Man's invention. Ohh, you can't?? I didn't think so. Where's God helping the poor? Where's God saving a 15 year old girl from flipping her car 4 times and being catapulted out of the fucking windshield and being so mangled they had to reconstruct her face in order to have a viewing before her funeral? He's not there. Why must the most beautiful girl i have ever seen have her life end in that way??? Because God works in mysterious ways??? No. It is the Chaos Theory, weather changes beyond our understanding or control. Not God. God doesn't control the fucking weather.

Are you so scared of dying that you have to live your life praying to some god that never answers you in order to stay alive and get forgiveness for wanting to fuck the hot chick at the checkstand?? HAHA. Well i;m above that. I don't need a God to tell me how to live, to scare me into praying for forgiveness.

Have you ever noticed the Seven Deady Sins? I'm lazy.. I havn't died. I've been jealous of Shia LeBouf because hes the ugliest mother fucker ever, but gets to act along with and KISS the fucking most beautiful women ever, and i havn't been struck down by God's Vengeance. I love to have money.. I need money to live, so i MUST be greedy in order to do anything in this world. I love to eat horseradish mash potatoes, to the point that i get sick and crap them out later on, so i waste them per say, and i'm not dead yet... I have gotten in a fight with someone, they tried to steal my hookah when i was a little gone, and i beat the fuck out of them, thats Wrath if i've ever seen it. And if Pride is a Deadly Sin, why is so bad to lose it??
The 7 Sins were implemented because they are so easy to break. So everytime you think some other girl is attractive while you have a girlfriend, you need to go repent to Father Diddlyhands. No thanks father, i got a GIRLFRIEND to do that for me. Thanks for the offer though i guess. Maybe that 6 year old is game? Haha. Ohhh.. wow... wtf.. Father??? FATHER???? SHIT HOMIE I WAS KIDDING! OH MY GOD! SHIT! I TOOK THE NAME OF THE LORD IN VAIN! GOD DAMN IT! FUCK! AHH! Father, bring your boy toy over, i have to confess again.

Religion. What is it good for? Absolutely Nothing. Say it again! Religion.

God. Where's God?

[AlphaJuno]

I just think it's a way for people to accept death. What's so bad about dying when you just go to a perfect paradise?
Nothing. So what's the point of fearing death? You shouldn't. This isn't a bad thing at all. The majority lives short pointless lives, just to die and in 1000 years be forgotten. Now a millenium is barely anything when you think about time in general. So0 God is a way for people to accept the fact that they are no longer going to be alive, and if you follow God's rules you will be able to enter the gates of heaven.

Now, let's just take Religion into perspective. How about..... the Crusades? How many Muslims were killed...? and...why? Yes, you know, "In the name of God". Yeah, i agree, what a cool thing to say before you kill someone execution style. But how about killing millions of people because they don't believe what you believe, and they are expanding their religion into your territory, and you want back the place where Your Savior was killed (by you, mind you). Now, John Paul II , I say that he is the greatest Pope that ever lived. He apologized for the Crusades, a National Apology mind you. And how long did that take?? A Millenium?? For the Catholics and Christians to say "Oops, our bad. Sorry abotu that, we got a little carried away..." All because of God.

Now, take Jihad for example. Holy War. HOLY WAR???? Haha, that's kind of like "Civil War" , only much more retarded. OK, now what is the sixth commandment?? Ohhhh yes... Do Not Kill. It's simple, stated in a way anyone can understand. "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Hmm. So what the fuck is Holy war? What the fuck were the Crusades all about?????

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH yeah. I forgot, i'm not suppose to take the bible literally. My Bad. Ok, so what i should really take it to say is "Thou shalt not kill, unless the other man pisses the off. " So i'm gonna kill that guy cause he cut me off! Because he's in the place where i believe MY god died! I want it back! Ohh, you cannot have it back, it is our holy land!

How many religions are there? Lets just say the Mainstream ones, with the common belief of One All-Powerful God (not god(s) ). Christianity, Catholicism, Protestants, Islams, Jews, Hindus. I am not counting Buddhism in this list, because they don't obey One God; it is a way of life, a very peaceful, nature-loving, philosophical, cheerful way of life. Ok, now if each one says that in order to go to Heaven you have to obey their teachings, how is a Catholic going to get into Jew Heaven? He's not. So therefore, there has to be Many Different Gods for each single religion, One God and only one or no religion is actually correct, or No God.

Let me ask you... Has God influenced your life first hand? Don't give me any crap about saving your daughter's life because she had a brain tumor, that's modern medicine, Man's invention. Ohh, you can't?? I didn't think so. Where's God helping the poor? Where's God saving a 15 year old girl from flipping her car 4 times and being catapulted out of the fucking windshield and being so mangled they had to reconstruct her face in order to have a viewing before her funeral? He's not there. Why must the most beautiful girl i have ever seen have her life end in that way??? Because God works in mysterious ways??? No. It is the Chaos Theory, weather changes beyond our understanding or control. Not God. God doesn't control the fucking weather.

Are you so scared of dying that you have to live your life praying to some god that never answers you in order to stay alive and get forgiveness for wanting to fuck the hot chick at the checkstand?? HAHA. Well i;m above that. I don't need a God to tell me how to live, to scare me into praying for forgiveness.

Have you ever noticed the Seven Deady Sins? I'm lazy.. I havn't died. I've been jealous of Shia LeBouf because hes the ugliest mother fucker ever, but gets to act along with and KISS the fucking most beautiful women ever, and i havn't been struck down by God's Vengeance. I love to have money.. I need money to live, so i MUST be greedy in order to do anything in this world. I love to eat horseradish mash potatoes, to the point that i get sick and crap them out later on, so i waste them per say, and i'm not dead yet... I have gotten in a fight with someone, they tried to steal my hookah when i was a little gone, and i beat the fuck out of them, thats Wrath if i've ever seen it. And if Pride is a Deadly Sin, why is so bad to lose it??
The 7 Sins were implemented because they are so easy to break. So everytime you think some other girl is attractive while you have a girlfriend, you need to go repent to Father Diddlyhands. No thanks father, i got a GIRLFRIEND to do that for me. Thanks for the offer though i guess. Maybe that 6 year old is game? Haha. Ohhh.. wow... wtf.. Father??? FATHER???? SHIT HOMIE I WAS KIDDING! OH MY GOD! SHIT! I TOOK THE NAME OF THE LORD IN VAIN! GOD DAMN IT! FUCK! AHH! Father, bring your boy toy over, i have to confess again.

Religion. What is it good for? Absolutely Nothing. Say it again! Religion.

God. Where's God?

Have you read the Koran? The Bible? The Talmud? The Nag Hammadi Library? Have you even read any holy scripture or are you just basing your weak argument 
on what your "agnostic" or "atheist" friends tell you?

Jihad does not mean Holy War, that is what the U.S. media is making it out to be. Jihad is translated as a "struggle in the way of God." The "Jihad" most Americans see is actually the only permissible form of warfare under Islamic law.

All Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) believe in the same God and their core teaching is that of love for mankind. Do they have differences? Yes, of course. Do people go stray off that course of Love for Mankind? All the time. Do not blame a religion that teaches peace of love when those who fly the banner of that religion do bad things; blame the individu
al.

You come off as someone who knows nothing yet claims to hold the Truth, unabashedly waving it in everyone's faces. Let go of your preconceived notions and educate yourself on your "enemies."

I await your response.

P.S. - Please explain what you see Chaos Theory as and without looking it up on Wikipedia. Edited October 18, 2007 by AlphaJuno

[ZenSilk]

I was mostly aimed at Catholicism is all truthfulness. Your right, i completely agree, in regards to the American Media. Our Medis is not a reliable source, yet that is where we get out views on Jihad. And there's one more example of catholicism at it's best, that's how it wa explained to me. yes, i have read the Bible. I was forced. But the Koran, i have to admit, no, i havn't. The Book of Mormon, on the Other hand, most unfortunately, i have. I had to literally learn the every teaching of The Bible, and then, after reading the New Testament, and finding passages saying that all men who lay with other men shall go to hell, I was told not to take it literally. 7 years of Catholic school. I started out as a God fearing citizen just liek most of us. I ended up as a Godless, religion hating hethen to some. I am a Taoist, i don't have a religious belief, i am not a Shintoist, i am not a Buddhist. I follow a philosophical way of life, no God, at one with Nature. My views are my own.

But i do feel that i have all thr right to bash Catholicism and the concept of "God" all i want. Not only becasue of my right to free speech, but because i was raised a Catholic, and through Catholic School, realized how horrible and unimportant the concept of religion really is. Our lives are short, they have no meaning in the grand sceme of things. I don't need to be wasting my time with God. But my 6th paragraph still holds true. Where is God. If he was there, why the fuck did she have to leave now?

I am sorry, i didn't mean to offend any other religion but Catholicism, and i hope i burned it to the ground. Jihad was just a Bad American Example.

But, i have to say, i have to ask, wouldn't the world be a much better place if Buddhist was the main religion? Take Tibet for example. Before the Chinese took it, it was a peaceful, rich in forest, nature-adoring temple filled non-poluting country. The Dalai Lama is a great man, we all can learn alot from him and his struggle.


And Chaos Theory, i would describe it as man's inability to describe the events that take place in nature. Shorthanded, of course. Water running down a stream, the wind blowing an object about, the weather; some examples. Edited October 18, 2007 by ZenSilk

[ZenSilk]

After reading a couple of these threads and hearing the arguments from some of you 'god believers' calling evolution and atheism ridiculous, I ask you explain to me why the concept of god isn't equally ridiculous, if not more ludicrous. And if you can really provide me with empirical evidence, then explain to me who created god? And why should there only be one god? because the bible said so? If YOU think your right because your a Christian and my good friend Ali thinks hes right because hes a Muslim, and some guy in Greece thinks hes right because hes a pagan, doesn't that make all three of you wrong? I think that is the most logical explanation. And don't try and tell me "O i don't believe in the bible or scriptures but I believe in god". Don't think that sitting on the fence about god is going to guarantee you a passage to heaven. Better to make up your mind and live your life rather than let your fear control you and force you into believing a ridiculous concept just cause your scared you might go to hell. God is not watching over you, he is not controlling this earth and he is not in your head! sorry to be so objective but this is my whole hearted opinion after being a zombified Christian for 15 years.

You my friend, are under the false impression that you can compare faith and science.

Faith and Science cannot be combined. At all. Teaching Intelligent design in classrooms is taking it over the top. So we have been around since the beginning of time? So... we killed and ate dinosaurs right? Ok, so they found Lucy in 1974, she wasn't even a fully evolved human. But she also wa snot an ape. So if she's inbetween humans and apes, how could man have lived since the beginning of time? They dated Lucy at 3.2 Million years old. The last Dinosaurs dies out 65 million years ago. So if Lucy hadn't even evolved into a human yet, how were humans back there with the Dinosaurs? They weren't. Early Earth's atmospheric gases were poisonous, comprised mostly of C02, to be exact. Can you breath CO2? Nah, you can't. But there are a type of Prokaryotes that can live in an Oxegyn-free atmosphere. Scientists have created Amino Acid in a lab, using Gases thought to be found in Earth's Early Atmosphere. And what is Amino Acid? The Building Blocks of Human Life. Protein. If that doesn't prove the "Theory" of evolution, it's hopeless.

Why would God only choose Earth to place life on?

[Gaara]

After reading a couple of these threads and hearing the arguments from some of you 'god believers' calling evolution and atheism ridiculous, I ask you explain to me why the concept of god isn't equally ridiculous, if not more ludicrous. And if you can really provide me with empirical evidence, then explain to me who created god? And why should there only be one god? because the bible said so? If YOU think your right because your a Christian and my good friend Ali thinks hes right because hes a Muslim, and some guy in Greece thinks hes right because hes a pagan, doesn't that make all three of you wrong? I think that is the most logical explanation. And don't try and tell me "O i don't believe in the bible or scriptures but I believe in god". Don't think that sitting on the fence about god is going to guarantee you a passage to heaven. Better to make up your mind and live your life rather than let your fear control you and force you into believing a ridiculous concept just cause your scared you might go to hell. God is not watching over you, he is not controlling this earth and he is not in your head! sorry to be so objective but this is my whole hearted opinion after being a zombified Christian for 15 years.

You my friend, are under the false impression that you can compare faith and science.

Faith and Science cannot be combined. At all. Teaching Intelligent design in classrooms is taking it over the top. So we have been around since the beginning of time? So... we killed and ate dinosaurs right? Ok, so they found Lucy in 1974, she wasn't even a fully evolved human. But she also wa snot an ape. So if she's inbetween humans and apes, how could man have lived since the beginning of time? They dated Lucy at 3.2 Million years old. The last Dinosaurs dies out 65 million years ago. So if Lucy hadn't even evolved into a human yet, how were humans back there with the Dinosaurs? They weren't. Early Earth's atmospheric gases were poisonous, comprised mostly of C02, to be exact. Can you breath CO2? Nah, you can't. But there are a type of Prokaryotes that can live in an Oxegyn-free atmosphere. Scientists have created Amino Acid in a lab, using Gases thought to be found in Earth's Early Atmosphere. And what is Amino Acid? The Building Blocks of Human Life. Protein. If that doesn't prove the "Theory" of evolution, it's hopeless.

Why would God only choose Earth to place life on?

1) You know science is theory. None of those things you've mentioned are 100% true facts written in stone.

2) How do you know that life is only on Earth?


Don't want to get into this religion debate but just curious on that last post.

[Theophage]

1) You know science is theory. None of those things you've mentioned are 100% true facts written in stone.

I don't think you understand the difference between scientific fact and theory...

[sm5sfe]

Alright, here is what I think. First of all about two and a half years ago I was in a very serious car accident. The accident was so serious, the paramedics did not know how they revived me ( I was found not breathing and with no heart beat). After I was taken to the hospital, I went through so many extensive surgeries that were so risky that when the surgeons came out of the operating room to tell my parents how it had gone, many times they were just in tears because they had the feeling tha I was not going to live through the night. So I am the only person, at least that I have met, who has actually died; eventhough for only a short time. I have been asked by people since the wreck, and since I was released from the hospital, what heaven is like. I reply, "I'm not comfortable talking about that." Because I don't want to offend the people who were praying for me (and there were many). The reality of the situation is this; there is no afterlife. When you die, you are dead, nothing more. I did not meet a god, see a white light, or anything like that. This kind of stuff has been created by people to comfort other people saying stuff like, "Oh well they are in a better place now." That is bullshit, they are nowhere. That is exactly what death means, you sease to exist, anywhere. So in my opinion the whole god(s)/religion deal is the biggest con in the history of human existance. I know this is blunt, and I apologize for that, but people have also told me after my accident that they think I should believe in god more. The fact is just the opposite, because I came to realize my previous thoughts were accurate. I am now a realist, so if it can be proved to me I will believe in it, however the existence of any god cannot and does not exist, therefore I do not believe.

In closing if I may quote someone who made a very good point; "So I'm supposed to believe there's a little man up in the sky, who is watching every inch of the earth and whats going on, he controls all our destinies, oh yeah, and he always needs money. I don't think so. This is just why religion is the biggest con ever."

[Gaara]

Alright, here is what I think. First of all about two and a half years ago I was in a very serious car accident. The accident was so serious, the paramedics did not know how they revived me ( I was found not breathing and with no heart beat). After I was taken to the hospital, I went through so many extensive surgeries that were so risky that when the surgeons came out of the operating room to tell my parents how it had gone, many times they were just in tears because they had the feeling tha I was not going to live through the night. So I am the only person, at least that I have met, who has actually died; eventhough for only a short time. I have been asked by people since the wreck, and since I was released from the hospital, what heaven is like. I reply, "I'm not comfortable talking about that." Because I don't want to offend the people who were praying for me (and there were many). The reality of the situation is this; there is no afterlife. When you die, you are dead, nothing more. I did not meet a god, see a white light, or anything like that. This kind of stuff has been created by people to comfort other people saying stuff like, "Oh well they are in a better place now." That is bullshit, they are nowhere. That is exactly what death means, you sease to exist, anywhere. So in my opinion the whole god(s)/religion deal is the biggest con in the history of human existance. I know this is blunt, and I apologize for that, but people have also told me after my accident that they think I should believe in god more. The fact is just the opposite, because I came to realize my previous thoughts were accurate. I am now a realist, so if it can be proved to me I will believe in it, however the existence of any god cannot and does not exist, therefore I do not believe.

In closing if I may quote someone who made a very good point; "So I'm supposed to believe there's a little man up in the sky, who is watching every inch of the earth and whats going on, he controls all our destinies, oh yeah, and he always needs money. I don't think so. This is just why religion is the biggest con ever."

Obviously if you're still here, you weren't meant to "see the light" or know the afterlife.

Many people have had near death experiences where they believed they were dead for a short period of time. If it was like that, people would already know what's in the afterlife.

[Johnny_D]

The whole Light at end of tunnel thing, i believe, is mostly believed to be the brain 'shutting down' *before* death.
If those boys can bring you back from the abyss then you probably weren't, technically, dead in the first place.

I feel quite sad for the poster above who now firmly believes nothing. Not sure what else can be said.

And where is it written that 'G-d is a man in the sky that looks over us blah blah blah and controls destiny' ?
G-d does not want sheep. He/She/It/Him/Her/They ect Want people who choose faith and try to follow a path
of decency and moral value.

Too many things have happened for me & too me to even consider that death is the final end.

JD

[sm5sfe]

Alright, here is what I think. First of all about two and a half years ago I was in a very serious car accident. The accident was so serious, the paramedics did not know how they revived me ( I was found not breathing and with no heart beat). After I was taken to the hospital, I went through so many extensive surgeries that were so risky that when the surgeons came out of the operating room to tell my parents how it had gone, many times they were just in tears because they had the feeling tha I was not going to live through the night. So I am the only person, at least that I have met, who has actually died; eventhough for only a short time. I have been asked by people since the wreck, and since I was released from the hospital, what heaven is like. I reply, "I'm not comfortable talking about that." Because I don't want to offend the people who were praying for me (and there were many). The reality of the situation is this; there is no afterlife. When you die, you are dead, nothing more. I did not meet a god, see a white light, or anything like that. This kind of stuff has been created by people to comfort other people saying stuff like, "Oh well they are in a better place now." That is bullshit, they are nowhere. That is exactly what death means, you sease to exist, anywhere. So in my opinion the whole god(s)/religion deal is the biggest con in the history of human existance. I know this is blunt, and I apologize for that, but people have also told me after my accident that they think I should believe in god more. The fact is just the opposite, because I came to realize my previous thoughts were accurate. I am now a realist, so if it can be proved to me I will believe in it, however the existence of any god cannot and does not exist, therefore I do not believe.

In closing if I may quote someone who made a very good point; "So I'm supposed to believe there's a little man up in the sky, who is watching every inch of the earth and whats going on, he controls all our destinies, oh yeah, and he always needs money. I don't think so. This is just why religion is the biggest con ever."

Obviously if you're still here, you weren't meant to "see the light" or know the afterlife.

Many people have had near death experiences where they believed they were dead for a short period of time. If it was like that, people would already know what's in the afterlife.

Well first of all it wasn't a near death experience. It was a death experience, I know that sounds dumb however if you knew all the facts, it truly was a death experience. It humbled me, although once again, has led me to realize there is no after life. And who is it that determins if/when we are meant to "see the light"?