Some Memebers Have Gone On To Greener Pastures.

[mgcsinc]

I want to know, specifically, if this claim on hookahpro is true or false:

"
Mushrat and I had discussions via Private Messages, about working towards co-existance. His main request was about taking the thread down HF vs. HP, I then took this thread down, in an attempt to appease him, and continue to work towards harmony and co-existance amoungst the two forums.

WOW! was I wrong! Now it looks like I was baited into taking the thread down so that I could look like we are trying to control the boards. SO I will bring it back!!!
"

I don't buy it, but I think we deserve a quick confirmation of that from mush.

[yashman19]

Very good points guys, you've given us a lot to think about. We'll see what happens in the future. Until then, I'll be just keeping the forum organized and keeping the peace while I take study breaks from my midterm thats happening tomorrow...

I want to know, specifically, if this claim on hookahpro is true or false:

"
Mushrat and I had discussions via Private Messages, about working towards co-existance. His main request was about taking the thread down HF vs. HP, I then took this thread down, in an attempt to appease him, and continue to work towards harmony and co-existance amoungst the two forums.

WOW! was I wrong! Now it looks like I was baited into taking the thread down so that I could look like we are trying to control the boards. SO I will bring it back!!!
"

I don't buy it, but I think we deserve a quick confirmation of that from mush.

I'm not positive, but I believe Mush gave a reply to that comment, and proved it false. I read it somewhere on HookahPros site. Read through some of the threads and I'm sure you'll find Mush's reply to that specific point. Edited May 30, 2007 by yashman19

[The King]

I've only been here a few months...when I came I have to say it seemed better, so many retarded arguements have gone on, but oh well

Anyways, i think the mods here do a fantastic job on organizing and controling spam and all sort ofstuff like that. I just think people should get over this 'OMG MY THREAD WAS DELETED" attitude... like this is a great place for hookah users, but shit its just a forum

[mgcsinc]

Anyways, i think the mods here do a fantastic job on organizing and controling spam and all sort ofstuff like that.

I think this is one thing that everyone can agree on.

[The King]

Anyways, i think the mods here do a fantastic job on organizing and controling spam and all sort ofstuff like that.

I think this is one thing that everyone can agree on.

Yeah, for me aatleast I've never seen spam and I always notice how fast people get corrected for breaking rules especially drug references

[yashman19]

Well members are a big help to that as well, especially you fellers over the pond who are awake when most of us are asleep! Reporting posts is a huge help, because it takes us right to the spam, and we can just get rid of it quick.

[ezie]

Peace people have a nice day. Enjoy your hookah session. Forgive and move on..

[hookahmike]

Wonder if it's just that time of the year....

I just got temp-banned from my computer forum after a disastrous month there (blessing in disguise, I have WAY too much stuff to do and I don't have time to keep 30+ people in control )
Also don't have that much interest in going back yet, maybe a year or so...

Work just had layoffs when they have had a 200+% profit in the last couple of years (greed the capitalistic american way )

& other stuff.

This just seems to fit right in... (Now someone please tell me WTF I missed dealing w/ all the other stuff )

[djbomberto1]

If you paid for your "Prem" account, the ADMINS should have been wiser, and actually backed all there stuff up to an OFFLINE External HD. Instead of relying on a "Server" Database. which i believe is foolish.

Thats why all of our accounts are MIA.

well, RIP to the fallin members. You will not be missed. especially smiley


thats my 2cents.

[xpimpitox]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!! EVERYBODY QUIT THE DRAMA AND SMOKE A BOWL!!! ok im calm now. seriously though all this bs is getting out of hand. i dont post very much anymore because i have been preoccupied with other things but when i do visit its sad to see postings like this ::sigh:: this place aint what it used 2 be

[mushrat]

Hi, ok, here's the deal straight from the mushrat's mouth.

It's not what you say about the forum, but how you say it. There have been plenty of posts with complaints about this place right here. When they are made in a reasonable manner, there is no problem. When they come as attacks on the HF in general, the MOderators specifically, and ONE moderator, who while most visible is NOT the only person moderating, Then there is a problem

When HP got started, a big post was made trying to get people to come over there. Not cool. You don't advertise a competing forum on the forum you are trying to draw peole away from. And at this point HP is EXACTLY like this one. Same sections, same sub forums, same RULES. Its not a new outlet with differnt things, its a MIRROR of this one. The only difference is that the people who started it were all unhappy with this forum and made themselves Moderators over there. So really the only difference between the forums was who was running the day to day operations. Us or them. Look over there and tell me if its any different. Links in sigs were allowed to remain, and still are mind you.

Now the real problem started when one of their new Mod's created a hookahpro Vs hookahforum thread first off. This wasn't a place to express unahappyness or try to reasonably talk about the problems here, otherwise it could have been discussed here. The posts were a bitch fest about how horrible this forum was, how heavy handed and 1984 the mod's were, and how much I personally did them wrong for banning them, erasing posts, etc. Now remember, we're a mod team and very few decisions, unless they needed to be made on the spot happened without consulting other mods. I always said i was just the ax man, carry out the wishes of the mods in general. So the vs thread got more and more personal and more and more unpleasant about the forum as a whole.

Then I actually show up. And I take offense at their portrail of the forum and the mods and ME. Suddenly everyone is tripping over themselves to get the thread deleted. Sambookah, the admin, keeps saying he wants harmony, but allows the flamefest to continue.

Now remember, these are their MODERATORS posting this stuff. The three people banned here were the ones who expressed such deep dislike for the forum and the way it was being run that I, and later backed up by 3 other mods, decided if they we that unhappy with this place that they had to trash it in the new forum that they really had no reason to come back here like they never said anything.

Then they started getting REALLY personal. I've been called an asshole and a liar by one of their mods. Nothing was done besides the deleteing of the offensive words. You can't trash a place, then expect to come back like nothing happened, no matter where it happens. They made their decision to start a new forum and trash this one,let them live with that choice.


As for the Vs thread. I told sambooka that for a group claiming they wanted to co-exist in peace, starting and allowing a trashing thread to stay up was a funny way to show it. But that the damage was done. Sambooka then removed the thread, only after another 24 hours so everyone could still read it. I told him he'd better re-read the pm's between us and what I wrote in the threads bacause I NEVER said it should be taken down, only that it had done much damage and that the mods posting in it sure showed their true colors no matter what kind of spin he and the others put on it later.

So we banned 4 people, apon review one was reinstated. Then it got real nasty. Then they started the same heavy handed tactics they claimed to hate in this forum. Posts were removed, posts were edited, threads were locked. Just like the complained we did. And, unlike our moderation team, theirs did so without any justification other than it made them look bad.

If you go back over there you will find that the threads that are currently locked are so heavily edited its hard to know what they were even orignally about. And now they are locked so nothing can be said in them. The same complaint they had about here.

In all 3 people are gone, and 2 have stated they have made proxy accounts here again anyway.

Meanwhile their mods act like kids who's parents left them alone and feel they can do and say what they want. Something you will NOT find on this forum. You may not like what we do, but we NEVER trash another forum and we certainly don't launce personal attacks on people within the forum. The admin seems to have no control over his moderation staff and that group is doing more damage and causeing more problems than any other group of posters over there.

THATS my side of it. you can try to read whats left of the mess over there, remember the terms asshole and liar have been edited out now. Oh and you'll find such upstanding emmebrs of the hookah community sliming up the place like hookahetc, spam advertising already, and dark3vil, who we all remember from his "i fuck goats" thread, which never saw the light of day.

I have always been honest with this group and the members of the forum so i'll leave it up to you all to decide for yourselves. But keep in mind, you'll NEVER find a hookahforum vs hookahpro thread here.

[oggie505#2]

Man, thats one long post..lol... I am cool whit whatever the MODs here do, For some of the newer people, we voted most of the cvurrent mods in. I remember when there was only 1 visible MOD on the forums.

One more thing. You gonna send me my bill mush?? Edited May 31, 2007 by oggie505#2

[KLD]

Hi, ok, here's the deal straight from the mushrat's mouth.

It's not what you say about the forum, but how you say it. There have been plenty of posts with complaints about this place right here. When they are made in a reasonable manner, there is no problem. When they come as attacks on the HF in general, the MOderators specifically, and ONE moderator, who while most visible is NOT the only person moderating, Then there is a problem

When HP got started, a big post was made trying to get people to come over there. Not cool. You don't advertise a competing forum on the forum you are trying to draw peole away from. And at this point HP is EXACTLY like this one. Same sections, same sub forums, same RULES. Its not a new outlet with differnt things, its a MIRROR of this one. The only difference is that the people who started it were all unhappy with this forum and made themselves Moderators over there. So really the only difference between the forums was who was running the day to day operations. Us or them. Look over there and tell me if its any different. Links in sigs were allowed to remain, and still are mind you.

Now the real problem started when one of their new Mod's created a hookahpro Vs hookahforum thread first off. This wasn't a place to express unahappyness or try to reasonably talk about the problems here, otherwise it could have been discussed here. The posts were a bitch fest about how horrible this forum was, how heavy handed and 1984 the mod's were, and how much I personally did them wrong for banning them, erasing posts, etc. Now remember, we're a mod team and very few decisions, unless they needed to be made on the spot happened without consulting other mods. I always said i was just the ax man, carry out the wishes of the mods in general. So the vs thread got more and more personal and more and more unpleasant about the forum as a whole.

Then I actually show up. And I take offense at their portrail of the forum and the mods and ME. Suddenly everyone is tripping over themselves to get the thread deleted. Sambookah, the admin, keeps saying he wants harmony, but allows the flamefest to continue.

Now remember, these are their MODERATORS posting this stuff. The three people banned here were the ones who expressed such deep dislike for the forum and the way it was being run that I, and later backed up by 3 other mods, decided if they we that unhappy with this place that they had to trash it in the new forum that they really had no reason to come back here like they never said anything.

Then they started getting REALLY personal. I've been called an asshole and a liar by one of their mods. Nothing was done besides the deleteing of the offensive words. You can't trash a place, then expect to come back like nothing happened, no matter where it happens. They made their decision to start a new forum and trash this one,let them live with that choice.


As for the Vs thread. I told sambooka that for a group claiming they wanted to co-exist in peace, starting and allowing a trashing thread to stay up was a funny way to show it. But that the damage was done. Sambooka then removed the thread, only after another 24 hours so everyone could still read it. I told him he'd better re-read the pm's between us and what I wrote in the threads bacause I NEVER said it should be taken down, only that it had done much damage and that the mods posting in it sure showed their true colors no matter what kind of spin he and the others put on it later.

So we banned 4 people, apon review one was reinstated. Then it got real nasty. Then they started the same heavy handed tactics they claimed to hate in this forum. Posts were removed, posts were edited, threads were locked. Just like the complained we did. And, unlike our moderation team, theirs did so without any justification other than it made them look bad.

If you go back over there you will find that the threads that are currently locked are so heavily edited its hard to know what they were even orignally about. And now they are locked so nothing can be said in them. The same complaint they had about here.

In all 3 people are gone, and 2 have stated they have made proxy accounts here again anyway.

Meanwhile their mods act like kids who's parents left them alone and feel they can do and say what they want. Something you will NOT find on this forum. You may not like what we do, but we NEVER trash another forum and we certainly don't launce personal attacks on people within the forum. The admin seems to have no control over his moderation staff and that group is doing more damage and causeing more problems than any other group of posters over there.

THATS my side of it. you can try to read whats left of the mess over there, remember the terms asshole and liar have been edited out now. Oh and you'll find such upstanding emmebrs of the hookah community sliming up the place like hookahetc, spam advertising already, and dark3vil, who we all remember from his "i fuck goats" thread, which never saw the light of day.

I have always been honest with this group and the members of the forum so i'll leave it up to you all to decide for yourselves. But keep in mind, you'll NEVER find a hookahforum vs hookahpro thread here.

I feel I need to point this out, by saying certain things you did in this reply it seems you are acting like a kid who's parents had left them home, no phun intended and I believe by bumping this thread over and over it won't resolve this issue it will just continue it.


It seemed they made that post hookahforum vs hookahpro to reduce the amount of spam of this issue throughout the their forums. I take neither sides in this matter I just think it would be in the best interest of both forum to just relax, go pack a bowl and let it slide off your shoulders.

[AinSophAur]

Lock this shit already. And for the love of all that is holy, mods stop advertising when someone is banned. Honestly I don't know of any other well moderated forum who does this. What's the pont? Mods dont need to report to the forum when they do their job. Thats why they were elected to be mods. So we (the normal forum goers) dont need to see or hear about the bullshit drama that goes on. Just lock and or delete the crap and move on. If a few people want to be babies and cry well then they can go and make their own forum and moderate it how they want.

[Domo]

Lock this shit already. And for the love of all that is holy, mods stop advertising when someone is banned. Honestly I don't know of any other well moderated forum who does this. What's the pont? Mods dont need to report to the forum when they do their job. Thats why they were elected to be mods. So we (the normal forum goers) dont need to see or hear about the bullshit drama that goes on. Just lock and or delete the crap and move on. If a few people want to be babies and cry well then they can go and make their own forum and moderate it how they want.

Well said. This thread its self may very well turn away new members. Either way this forum is fun enough for me to be happy.

[mushrat]

Actually ain, i hadn't intended to post this info..but zerodynamic, one of the 3, called me out and said I was afraid to post that they were being banned and why cause i had no real reason to in the first place. So this was actually posted at the instistance of one of the people BEING banned. I agree wiht you on this one, It would hav ebeen best just to let it go, but far be it from em to look like i'm hiding something or not willing to say what i'm doing and why. Edited May 31, 2007 by mushrat
spelling

[AinSophAur]

So you made this thread cause some banned guy dared you to. You're using this thread to try and justify what you did when no such justification needed to be declared to the public if at all. Anyone with a brain knows why they are no longer here. Your duty as a mod is to make this place drama free. This thread goes against what Mods are here for. I don't even know why this is an issue.

[Johnny_D]

Well members are a big help to that as well, especially you fellers over the pond who are awake when most of us are asleep! Reporting posts is a huge help, because it takes us right to the spam, and we can just get rid of it quick.

Gonna take that as a compliment

JD - Over the pond.

[Akkbar]

Why can't we all just get along?

Does anyone other than me wish all the drama queens could just meet in person and have at it?

People think being a mod or admin makes them special, and every forum has those that eventually split off to run their own forums. Is this what happened in this case? If so, I don't care. At least with hookah, I am content to follow. I don't need to run a hookah internet forum to feel like a big man. I have my women, my guns, my booze, and my shisha to do that.

And geez, this is the freaking internet. Who really cares? If these events are affecting people's day to day lives, then they have other problems to attend to. I could see a bunch of computer geeks arguing over operating systems or something, and I could understand how heated they could get, but this isn't even about the topic of the forum! It's ridiculous. And I don't even know what happened.

I think the mods (whoever they are) are doing an excellent job. People are kicked out who need to be kicked, conversation is mostly on topic, relevent, respectful, and engaging. Us sheep (non-mods) are mostly at peace with each other, and all is well. I have no complaints. But loyalty is not just something important out in the real world. I think it's moronic that those who have issues with whatever refuse to stay and work things out, and it really speaks to their character. But then, this is the internet, and I don't really care that much. It's nice to have a nice place to talk and exchange info and whatnot, isn't it?

[sambookamax]

I really would, just like for the arguing to stop. I am trying my best, to clean this up on our end, as you can plainly see from my posts. I have NEVER said anything bad about this forum, And I never will! I frequent both forums! My passion is hookah, that is one of the reasons I started my own forum, because I am so passionate about hookah, that I wanted to share it with the world.

Yes, I may be the admin/mod, but don't lump me into a group sayinig I am doing nothing, when in actuality I am trying to "stop the madness"! , that is why I come here and respond ... in hopes that this can stop, on both ends!
... (The only reason any of "My" posts were edited, were to "Include" something I may have forgotten to write ... Or if I want to include something that I think may help to "put these fires out") ...

I've made numerous attempts to try and manage some kinda co-existence between us, but this is constantly being re-hashed over and over the last few days. I have written posts, and I have written PMs to people on my end, and included mushrat on this, asking them all to chill, let bygones be bygones, and maybe someday we can have two civilized locations, with a variety of information for all of us that share a passion for hookah.

Sincerely, Sambooka

p.s. this would have been an edit, I caught it before I hit submit ...
... this is the only post I will be making in this thread, I hope!? lol
Cheers!

[ezie]

Lets just move on and lets take the hookah out and have a great sessions. Peace No more drama. To forgive is to forget the problem we made. Have a nice day. cheers

[Lakemonster]

Im gonna point this out and step off the box.

"it takes two sides to make a conflict"

when people act like they havent done anything to escalate a situation after having a great deal of involvement they are telling me that I am stupid. Why would I want to listen to that?

HF is way too competetive in nature. I've said that back during .NET and inbetween. You want to rival with boards and act nasty. I swear someone out there just sits around and licks his/her lips for another board to open up so the insults can start and shit like this happens. Edited May 31, 2007 by Lakemonster

[Hannibal]

This thread is snowballing.

One person posts their argument, another challenges it, then the first person defends it, then a referee comes in and asks for a smoke session for each party, then a new person comes and places an argument, to which the other existing arguers must challenge or try to justify their own position, so on and so forth. All this shit just goes full circle and grows.

(and by arguments I don't mean like what forums are supossed to be about: start a thread and discuss things, I mean straigt up arguing)

Close it, erase it, wipe my memory, I don't care. This thread has become unecessary. Edited May 31, 2007 by Hannibal

[mushrat]

*sigh*
well, ok..when the new forum opened i stated a personal opinion backed up by 2 years of personal experience. I also wihed them good luck. I even became a member over there. Apparently my personal observatiopn is one of the things that set people off. I stand by it even now and with the way its going, feel its even more valid that before.

Then the NEW forum posted an attack thread agaginst this forum as one of their first Topics. So, if peace was truly wanted, the post would not have been made or the admin would have shut it down the second he saw it. Like we do here. But nothing was done until I became a member, to see what the place was about, and then saw the attack thread. And while Sam here never posted anything bad or derrogitory, he allowed his other members, including his MODS, to continue the thread. He also allowed them to launch personal attacks against me calling me everything from an asshole to a liar. The only action taken was to erase the offending words and lock the threads. No disciplinary action was taken against the MODS who posted these attacks. Just a finger wave and a "tsk tsk".

The whole time Sam is up there crying BE CALM! LIVE IN PEACE! While his MODS are running roughshod.

I can say I am no longer posting anything over there as the same Mods who were trashing me yesterday are trying to pretend everything is peachy today. World doesnt work that way, internet or otherwise, and until Sam actually acts like the man running the show and DOES something about the behavior and conduct of the people who are supposed to be setting the example for the rest of his forum there will continue to be bad blood. So Sam, how are people who have called ME an asshole and a liar ever going to be able to discipline others if they do the same? They have lost any moral grounds to moderate.

As for people being afraid to critisize this forum. Just look at the posts. You'll find plenty complaining about the moderaton, account problems, lack of Admin involvement, everything. Those posts are still up and the posters are still around. Remeber, its not what you say sometimes but how you say it. All we've ever enforced is the civility rules. If you can voice your concerns in a polite civil way you will never have to worry. Make it a personal or rude attack thread, and it's likely to draw action. Heck, you'll even find some of those posts BY me. Just be civil is all.

And the drama continues....sorry folks. It's about over. Edited May 31, 2007 by mushrat
spelling and to add a thought, nothing deleted.

[Macho555]

Lol, what can I say? It's always something. I suppose I may as well state my opinion at this point.

I have to admit, Lakemoster is entirely correct, this stuff didn't happen because we love to get along with other people.

I think I probably would have reacted the same way the mods did in this case. Why on Earth would we feel like we need to get along with a secondary forum, that for all intensive purposes seems to exist to get away from this one? As for the members in question, I put enough faith in the Mods to be sure they weren't banned just for the Hell of it.

And just as a thought...If I had gone to another forum just for the ability to complain about the last one, why in the Hell would I be surprised if someone took offense, EVEN to the point of banning?

~~Macho