The BBC is Biased

[ghostofdavid]

Of course, by stating that I am not Persian/Iranian/Iraqi/Aryan, I am of course meaning that I do not APPEAR that way. Who knows what our bloodlines truly carry!

[PerznPerversion]

The Persian Empire was a particularly bloody one and people held for a long time that the Persians were ignorant, savage and violent (Of course, compared to the Greeks, everyone was...and the Greeks did win...making whatever they say about the Persians slightly suspect)...of course everyone knows Persians are violent (in Greece anyways)!

I think you should watch less 300 (a racist film that butchers history) and study what actually happened.

Because God knows that any movie based on a comic book inspired by a historical event is usually flawlessly accurate.

Too bad the majority of Americans took that movie as a history lesson. And the comic book itself was just as racist.

The majority of Americans? Yes, I'm sure they believed that it was devious Persian wizardry that impeded the efforts of Leonidas so much... And that flute-playing goat. Yeah, those dumb Americans... They'll believe anything.

As for the comic book being racist, please get over it. It's a comic book. As in, for entertainment purposes only. As in, not to be taken seriously.

But march on, dude. I'm sure you'll really get somewhere by taking everything so seriously.

Actually ive just written a blog about this and ive talked to TONS of people in person, in blogs and even my games, and alot of people do believe that the movie IS accurate lol. i know theyre simplistic idiots but eyy .

[Persianguy]

The Persian Empire was a particularly bloody one and people held for a long time that the Persians were ignorant, savage and violent (Of course, compared to the Greeks, everyone was...and the Greeks did win...making whatever they say about the Persians slightly suspect)...of course everyone knows Persians are violent (in Greece anyways)!

I think you should watch less 300 (a racist film that butchers history) and study what actually happened.

Because God knows that any movie based on a comic book inspired by a historical event is usually flawlessly accurate.

Too bad the majority of Americans took that movie as a history lesson. And the comic book itself was just as racist.

The majority of Americans? Yes, I'm sure they believed that it was devious Persian wizardry that impeded the efforts of Leonidas so much... And that flute-playing goat. Yeah, those dumb Americans... They'll believe anything.

As for the comic book being racist, please get over it. It's a comic book. As in, for entertainment purposes only. As in, not to be taken seriously.

But march on, dude. I'm sure you'll really get somewhere by taking everything so seriously.

There's no need to exagerate. I had no intention of believing that Americans believed in flute playing yaks (it was a yak not a goat btw, lol). Btw, the "devious Persian wizardry" was in the form of "bomb throwers", another stereotype they snuck in there.

I will not "get over" racism, there is nothing to get over, just alot to expose and speak out about. If they would have replaced "Jews" with "Persians", or "Blacks", or "Mexicans" with "Persians", there would be a shit storm to pay from the public.

I am really sick of thinly veiled racist propaganda (and when I say thinly veiled, we're talking about a very very thin veil here) being peddled around as "entertainment". So they can put in any political, racial, historical, or philosophical derogatory message into a movie and completely avoid any criticism by simply saying "it's just a movie for entertainment"? Give me a movie budget, a camera crew, and some special effects and i'll prove it, lol.

[Persianguy]

When any word is tossed around a lot it completely loses its meaning. If you keep tossing the word racist around, it does the same.

I am not "tossing it around", I am using it where it is deemed necissary. There are many cases of racism and many cases where this word applies, but that does not mean that it has any less of a meaning. If anything, a word gains power through useage, but that's not part of what i'm talking about here.

I do not think 300 to be historically accurate. Anyone who reads criticism of the film or a single exerpt history book knows that the battle was much different. I am curious to know what you think is racist about the film.

Everything from the portrayal of the Persians to the demonization of them. To the directors attempts to instill the stereotype of the "civil west vs. the barbaric Middle-East". They even threw in "freedom" with every other line. I thought for a second I was about to see Dick Cheney pop around the corner and go on a quail rage.

It is portraying the Spartans (and by proxy the Greeks) as the good guy... and why wouldn't it? The movie is told from the Greek perspective.

It is told from Frank Millers perspective, and he is by no means the official "Greek perspective". I know many Greeks, and they have nothing but the most utmost respect for Persians. There are people out there who think they're Greek, and aren't of course, and they give a bad name to real Greeks. Greeks and Persians share very similiar cultures.

If the movie was entitled Xerxes the Great, the movie would label (probably) the Spartans are homeland terrorists.

I disagree. I don't think that they would demonize the Greeks the way the Persians were demonized in that movie. I also have to say that it's not the Greeks that are being bombed/invaded right now. It's not the Greeks that the entire media is focused on demonizing, it's Middle-Easterners. I also don't think it's a coincidance that the movie was set for release on the eve of the Persian New Year (Norouz).

Being neither Greek nor Persian (or modern Iraqi/Iranian/Aryan?), I found nothing offensive in the whole of the movie, from a racial stand point. In fact, it showed Xerxes as actually being an immense warrior/king. As a student of the Bible, Xerxes is lauded with praise and fairness. It is refers to him as one of a single handful of godly Goyim that graced the pages Hebrew Scriptures.

Erm...i'm not sure how Iraqis can be grouped with Iranian/Aryans. But as far as Xerxes, he was displayed as a cross dressing practically naked Brazilian with a resonding demonic voice. Everything about him was "demonic", all the way down to the long finger nail, all they were missing was horns and a tail. As far as the Bible, I don't think that's what the movie was based off of.

The modern firearm movement has latched on to the story of the Battle of Thermopylae as a symbolic battle cry for those who do not wish to be disarmed by the government or masses. Nothing racist from that perspective.

Please do not misunderstand what I am saying, I respect you and your opinions but I don't see anything racist about the movie.

I'm not asking you to see anything racist about the movie, but I am explaining my opinion. Alot of misconceptions occur with the Battle of Thermopylae. Historians say it was around 6,000-7,000 Greeks including 300 Spartans (Herodotus's works support this). The Persians sent two waves, not their entire army. The first wave was a wave of Median mercenaries, the 2nd was the wave of immortals (not all of them).

Persia actually gained control of Ionia and forced Sparta into a mutual defense pact later on during the Pelepenissian and Corinthian wars.

[PerznPerversion]

Of course, by stating that I am not Persian/Iranian/Iraqi/Aryan, I am of course meaning that I do not APPEAR that way. Who knows what our bloodlines truly carry!

i unno man you look middle eastern to me lmao

[ghostofdavid]

A word gains power through usuage until the word becomes common place and then it becomes just that; common. Think of the word awesome. People say the word awesome quite a lot and it rarely is regarding something that is truly awesome.

Person one: "Dude, check out my new shoes, what do you think?"

Person two: "Awesome!"

Person number one's shoes are not awesome in the truest sense.

Everything from the portrayal of the Persians to the demonization of them. To the directors attempts to instill the stereotype of the "civil west vs. the barbaric Middle-East". They even threw in "freedom" with every other line. I thought for a second I was about to see Dick Cheney pop around the corner and go on a quail rage.

I do not think it fair for you to say that "everything" movie portrayed was a demonization of them. After all, Persia is referenced as being the conquerer of a thousand nations and their integration of all peoples into Persian Empire seems to be a pretty positive assessment. Freedom was not thrown in every other line. However, it is a concept that resonates highly with the audience (mostly United States Americans). Freedom is a concept universal. The Dick Cheney comment is hilarious but has no bearing on the conversation at hand.

It is told from Frank Millers perspective, and he is by no means the official "Greek perspective". I know many Greeks, and they have nothing but the most utmost respect for Persians. There are people out there who think they're Greek, and aren't of course, and they give a bad name to real Greeks. Greeks and Persians share very similiar cultures.

When I say that the movie is told through the Greek perspective, I mean that the Spartans are the protangist and any invading force are the antagonists. The movie isn't told from Frank Miller's perspective since he is not a starring character, and he doesn't fight on or against either side. The movie/comic was <i>written</i> by him. This, of course, I mean within a certain metaphysical context. I think the two are separable without splitting semantical hairs.

I also don't think it's a coincidance that the movie was set for release on the eve of the Persian New Year (Norouz).

The power of a conspiracy theory is that it operates on lack of evidence instead of factual evidence. I will believe that it was set for release on the eve of the Persian New Year when I see evidence of it in a non-conspiratoral (sp?) nature.

As far as the Bible, I don't think that's what the movie was based off of.

You are correct, that was not my assumption. The movie is not based on any Biblical account. However, Xerxes is a character within the Bible in the retelling of a completely different picture. He is the one who has a national contest where Esther becomes his wife (one of many, I imagine... she seems to be more of a singular head queen according to the book). The Hebrew Scriptures paints the man, as I said, as a messiah of the Jewish people. Likewise, Cyrus and Darius are pictured as messiahs.

But, I still <i>respectfully</i> disagree with you that the movie was racist. The movie doesn't end with the burning of crescent flags(nor would that make sense, as the Muslim isn't even a thought yet), it does not say that Persians are pig-dogs, it is not a war of the West vs. Mid-East.

Although, if someone has a chip on their shoulder about Mid-East culture, I can certainly fathom a person seeing the entire world of them vs. Persians and jamming the movie into that worldview.

[Persianguy]

A word gains power through usuage until the word becomes common place and then it becomes just that; common. Think of the word awesome. People say the word awesome quite a lot and it rarely is regarding something that is truly awesome.

Person one: "Dude, check out my new shoes, what do you think?"

Person two: "Awesome!"

Person number one's shoes are not awesome in the truest sense.

I don't see how using a common word supports your argument here. Racial slurs are a good example. They are simply words, but if used enough, they do gain power. I am not saying that i'm going to call racism on everything I see because the more I use it the stronger it gets, that's not my theory. I am saying that "using the race card too much" does not successfully condemn proper useage of the word "racism" when it is needed, especially when it is needed often.

I do not think it fair for you to say that "everything" movie portrayed was a demonization of them. After all, Persia is referenced as being the conquerer of a thousand nations and their integration of all peoples into Persian Empire seems to be a pretty positive assessment. Freedom was not thrown in every other line. However, it is a concept that resonates highly with the audience (mostly United States Americans). Freedom is a concept universal. The Dick Cheney comment is hilarious but has no bearing on the conversation at hand.

I walked into the theatre and paid to see it, I think i'm qualified to give my opinion on it, even if that opinion is that "everything" was a demonization of the Persians, which I saw. Can you honestly sit here with a straight face and tell me that 300 portrayed Persians as "integrating cultures" in a "positive way"? LOL! There was nothing positive portrayed about the Persians in that movie, at all. If you call being a ruthless conquerer "positive", then that may be your preference, but to us, we take it as an insult.

I heard the word "freedom" in the movie many times, and alot of pro-Bush foreign policy comparisons, such as congress drafting support for a war, and those opposing it being "traitors", etc. There were alot of hidden messages in that movie, and they aren't hard to see. It's extremely obvious. I disagree that freedom is a universal concept, I think it has been misportrayed specifically in America and the way it is thrown around to justify foreign policy. Such as "operation Iraqi freedom", "freeing the Iraqis", "fighting for freedom", "freedom fries", etc.

The Cheney thing was for fun.

When I say that the movie is told through the Greek perspective, I mean that the Spartans are the protangist and any invading force are the antagonists. The movie isn't told from Frank Miller's perspective since he is not a starring character, and he doesn't fight on or against either side. The movie/comic was <i>written</i> by him. This, of course, I mean within a certain metaphysical context. I think the two are separable without splitting semantical hairs.

The movie was written from Frank Millers perspective in terms of ideals. I know that he didn't star in the movie. If you really want to get into semantics, the movie is how a "Greek perspective" might appear inerpreted, and directed through the eyes/mind of American hollywood producers, lol. I don't think we need to get into metaphysics to establish this comic book/movie colloboration mirrored the ideas of Frank Miller and Zack Snyder, not the Greeks or what the majority of todays Greeks feel.

The power of a conspiracy theory is that it operates on lack of evidence instead of factual evidence. I will believe that it was set for release on the eve of the Persian New Year when I see evidence of it in a non-conspiratoral (sp?) nature.

I dislike conspiracy theories, but I don't think this is one. It's a very real date. I believe it's a conspiracy theory to assume naivety that everything was just "done for entertainment" and that there was no message, timing, or ideology behind the movie. That's like saying Mein Kampf was just a good literary work with no real message.

You are correct, that was not my assumption. The movie is not based on any Biblical account. However, Xerxes is a character within the Bible in the retelling of a completely different picture. He is the one who has a national contest where Esther becomes his wife (one of many, I imagine... she seems to be more of a singular head queen according to the book). The Hebrew Scriptures paints the man, as I said, as a messiah of the Jewish people. Likewise, Cyrus and Darius are pictured as messiahs.

Well maybe next time you can convince Zack Snyder to make his movie based on the bible instead of Frank Millers comic, but it seems to be a bit late.

But, I still <i>respectfully</i> disagree with you that the movie was racist. The movie doesn't end with the burning of crescent flags(nor would that make sense, as the Muslim isn't even a thought yet), it does not say that Persians are pig-dogs, it is not a war of the West vs. Mid-East.

I have no problem with you disagreeing, i'm merely explaining why I feel this way. While I don't think the movie had any anti-Islamic sentiment, it did have a lot of anti-Persian/anti-Middle-Eastern sentiment. Greeks are viewed as Westerners in America, even though they have more in common with Persians and the Middle-East. I don't know how many times i've walked into a chat room or stickam with "Persian" in my name or an online game..basically anywhere online with a Persian name or an expression/discussion where I state i'm Persian, without hearing "SPARTAAAAA" etc. which I found funny at first, but it started to get offensive.

Although, if someone has a chip on their shoulder about Mid-East culture, I can certainly fathom a person seeing the entire world of them vs. Persians and jamming the movie into that worldview.

Maybe now you sort of see what i'm saying. Edited August 18, 2007 by Persianguy

[Foos]

300 was racist? Not really, as far as I can tell it was just another movie. Theres dozens of more movies out there that portray middle eastern people in negative ways so why dont you call racism on those too?

[Persianguy]

300 was racist? Not really, as far as I can tell it was just another movie. Theres dozens of more movies out there that portray middle eastern people in negative ways so why dont you call racism on those too?

I certainly call racism on those movies as well. Have you seen the short clip "Planet of the Arabs"? It basically is a compilation of clips from hollywood movies/shows that demonize Middle-Easterners:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi1ZNEjEarw

Anyway, I did find it racist because it called Persians out as a race. Persians don't care if you hate our government in Iran or Ahmadinejad, but we do care when you attack our history, and that is why we were offended by this. Like I said, replace "Persians" with "Jews" and see how far the movie would have got...or any other ethnic/racial group.

[Foos]

300 was racist? Not really, as far as I can tell it was just another movie. Theres dozens of more movies out there that portray middle eastern people in negative ways so why dont you call racism on those too?

I certainly call racism on those movies as well. Have you seen the short clip "Planet of the Arabs"? It basically is a compilation of clips from hollywood movies/shows that demonize Middle-Easterners:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi1ZNEjEarw

Anyway, I did find it racist because it called Persians out as a race. Persians don't care if you hate our government in Iran or Ahmadinejad, but we do care when you attack our history, and that is why we were offended by this. Like I said, replace "Persians" with "Jews" and see how far the movie would have got...or any other ethnic/racial group.

It feels like the only reason your here is to rant about how racist everyone is against persians and to start arguements/debates when this is in fact a hookah forum. I understand that this is the serious discussion thread but it doesnt make sense if this is the only place you make posts. Just my opinion of course.

[nicayotte]

Quit getting caught up in the racism it happens to everyone, people could say that American History X was based off racism along with any documentary based on 9/11 showing extremists could be based off racism....

[Persianguy]

It feels like the only reason your here is to rant about how racist everyone is against persians and to start arguements/debates when this is in fact a hookah forum. I understand that this is the serious discussion thread but it doesnt make sense if this is the only place you make posts. Just my opinion of course.

I believe you are attacking my motivations in lieu of an actual argument against what I have to say. Last I checked this was a public forum for all to post in, and when I checked the description of the topics this specific section of the forum allowed, I believe my posts were within the guidelines.

I didn't know there was a pre-requisite to posting here, or that I had to post somewhere else.

[Persianguy]

Quit getting caught up in the racism it happens to everyone, people could say that American History X was based off racism along with any documentary based on 9/11 showing extremists could be based off racism....

It's hard not to get caught up in racism when it's directly effecting others, detaining them, killing them, and threatening their freedoms. I believe it's easy for others to tell minorities to forget about racism and move on, but that is because it doesn't effect them.

And you'd be right in saying that the medias representation of 9/11 was biased.

[Foos]

It feels like the only reason your here is to rant about how racist everyone is against persians and to start arguements/debates when this is in fact a hookah forum. I understand that this is the serious discussion thread but it doesnt make sense if this is the only place you make posts. Just my opinion of course.

I believe you are attacking my motivations in lieu of an actual argument against what I have to say. Last I checked this was a public forum for all to post in, and when I checked the description of the topics this specific section of the forum allowed, I believe my posts were within the guidelines.

I didn't know there was a pre-requisite to posting here, or that I had to post somewhere else.

So you like starting arguements on the internet to prove something to yourself?

[Persianguy]

So you like starting arguements on the internet to prove something to yourself?

I don't see why this discussion keeps resonating back to me. I came here with clear talking points, and in this thread I have spoken my mind. Why is that those who disagree and can't form an argument have to go for personal attacks?

I don't come here starting arguments, there was one already raging when I walked in.

[Johnny_D]

I don't come here starting arguments, there was one already raging when I walked in.

No.

You were invited here by your friend to, potentially, bolster his position within such arguments. Maybe I should ask
my firm Anti-smoking Rabbi friend to sign up, to the forum, just to tackle your anti Israeli rhetoric? [1]

This is a forum to bring Hookah smokers around the world together.

You have contributed, what, exactly to this forum ?

[Analogy]Why would i sign up to an greenpeace forum to just discuss Israel?[/Analogy]

JD

[1] I am not debating your stand - just making a point about your contribution here

[Persianguy]

No.

You were invited here by your friend to, potentially, bolster his position within such arguments. Maybe I should ask
my firm Anti-smoking Rabbi friend to sign up, to the forum, just to tackle your anti Israeli rhetoric? [1]

This is a forum to bring Hookah smokers around the world together.

You have contributed, what, exactly to this forum ?

[Analogy]Why would i sign up to an greenpeace forum to just discuss Israel?[/Analogy]

JD

[1] I am not debating your stand - just making a point about your contribution here

I still don't see how anything you said negates the fact that there was already an argument and debate raging before I walked in. Secondly, I don't know why everyone is so fixated on my views about Zionism. I talked about the condemnation of the Zionist regime and that seems to be the comment that everyone latched onto, even though I talked about much more.

I'd be happy to debate any Zionist you'd like to bring here. However, you should know I am also half Jewish, and I can distinguish the difference between Judiasm and Zionism. Zionism is a modern secular movement.

I am not sure what your definition of a "contribution" is. I have contributed a great deal on the issue of Iran and the Iraq war thus far, and shared my views on drinking age laws.

I wasn't aware that this forum had a main purpous...is this not a public forum for "serious discussion" as stated in the title? Edited August 20, 2007 by Persianguy

[Johnny_D]

I wasn't aware that this forum had a main purpous...is this not a public forum for "serious discussion" as stated in the title?

No disrepect here, but do you really log into something called 'hookahforum' and not understand
what it's core function is?

With such a varied and interesting background i cannot even bring myself to believe
that you could not make the link between hookah & nahgile and water-pipe smoking.

A Staple diet from the middle east, persia & turkish empires? (also india i am led to believe)

As regard to Israel I noted your first comment about 'conedemnation of the zionist movement' (or words to that effect). I am not sure there is much debate to be had.

As I also stated previously I[1] view your being here as just a method to bolster PP's[2] position within such arguments as a self-styled spokesman of persia[3].

JD

[1] I. Me. Alone. Myself. What others think I do not profess to think.
[2] I like PersianPerversion a lot, i have enjoyed many discussions with him without it resorting to unpleasantness.
[3] See 1.

[Foos]

No.

You were invited here by your friend to, potentially, bolster his position within such arguments. Maybe I should ask
my firm Anti-smoking Rabbi friend to sign up, to the forum, just to tackle your anti Israeli rhetoric? [1]

This is a forum to bring Hookah smokers around the world together.

You have contributed, what, exactly to this forum ?

[Analogy]Why would i sign up to an greenpeace forum to just discuss Israel?[/Analogy]

JD

[1] I am not debating your stand - just making a point about your contribution here

I still don't see how anything you said negates the fact that there was already an argument and debate raging before I walked in. Secondly, I don't know why everyone is so fixated on my views about Zionism. I talked about the condemnation of the Zionist regime and that seems to be the comment that everyone latched onto, even though I talked about much more.

I'd be happy to debate any Zionist you'd like to bring here. However, you should know I am also half Jewish, and I can distinguish the difference between Judiasm and Zionism. Zionism is a modern secular movement.

I am not sure what your definition of a "contribution" is. I have contributed a great deal on the issue of Iran and the Iraq war thus far, and shared my views on drinking age laws.

I wasn't aware that this forum had a main purpous...is this not a public forum for "serious discussion" as stated in the title?

How can you justify yourself when that "serious discussion" forum happens to be in a much larger forum for a community of people that love hookah, also titled, "hookah forum". Your very first thread here basically stated that you'll "discuss" all these issues that to my knowledge, werent raging aruements before you got here. All of your topics for debate are pretty meaningless in my eyes, just my opinion though.

[Persianguy]

I wasn't aware that this forum had a main purpous...is this not a public forum for "serious discussion" as stated in the title?

No disrepect here, but do you really log into something called 'hookahforum' and not understand
what it's core function is?

With such a varied and interesting background i cannot even bring myself to believe
that you could not make the link between hookah & nahgile and water-pipe smoking.

A Staple diet from the middle east, persia & turkish empires? (also india i am led to believe)

As regard to Israel I noted your first comment about 'conedemnation of the zionist movement' (or words to that effect). I am not sure there is much debate to be had.

As I also stated previously I[1] view your being here as just a method to bolster PP's[2] position within such arguments as a self-styled spokesman of persia[3].

JD

[1] I. Me. Alone. Myself. What others think I do not profess to think.
[2] I like PersianPerversion a lot, i have enjoyed many discussions with him without it resorting to unpleasantness.
[3] See 1.

Just because it was brough to my attention by him does not mean that I am here to bolster his position, I provided my own opinion. Also, i'm not sure why you guys have a "serious discussion" forum that states "war, religion" etc. when you are not prepared or ready to discuss these things. I have recieved threats from the admins that I will be banned if I don't talk about hookahs on a part of the forum where hookahs are not the topic. There's barely any threads in "serious discussion" about hookahs, why aren't those people getting threatened/banned?

I'm not sure what you meant by "not making the connection", I just picked a random post in general and was being sarcastic if you're refering to my post on the main forums.

The admins here clearly have a hypocritical biased agenda and I will be banned soon, but i'll respond as long as my account is active

[Persianguy]

No.

You were invited here by your friend to, potentially, bolster his position within such arguments. Maybe I should ask
my firm Anti-smoking Rabbi friend to sign up, to the forum, just to tackle your anti Israeli rhetoric? [1]

This is a forum to bring Hookah smokers around the world together.

You have contributed, what, exactly to this forum ?

[Analogy]Why would i sign up to an greenpeace forum to just discuss Israel?[/Analogy]

JD

[1] I am not debating your stand - just making a point about your contribution here

I still don't see how anything you said negates the fact that there was already an argument and debate raging before I walked in. Secondly, I don't know why everyone is so fixated on my views about Zionism. I talked about the condemnation of the Zionist regime and that seems to be the comment that everyone latched onto, even though I talked about much more.

I'd be happy to debate any Zionist you'd like to bring here. However, you should know I am also half Jewish, and I can distinguish the difference between Judiasm and Zionism. Zionism is a modern secular movement.

I am not sure what your definition of a "contribution" is. I have contributed a great deal on the issue of Iran and the Iraq war thus far, and shared my views on drinking age laws.

I wasn't aware that this forum had a main purpous...is this not a public forum for "serious discussion" as stated in the title?

How can you justify yourself when that "serious discussion" forum happens to be in a much larger forum for a community of people that love hookah, also titled, "hookah forum". Your very first thread here basically stated that you'll "discuss" all these issues that to my knowledge, werent raging aruements before you got here. All of your topics for debate are pretty meaningless in my eyes, just my opinion though.

I fail to see how the topic of Iran and politics is "meaningless". Of course i'm justifying myself with "serious discussion", this forum states you can talk about "War, religion" etc. so why can't I? Or should it be re-stated "War, religion, etc. as long as everyone agrees and you don't cause any controversy with ideas that aren't mainstream"? Perhaps that's a better title.

As I said, your admin has already threatened me for "not talking about hookahs" on a section of the forums where hookahs aren't the topic, ROFL! I'll be banned soon, but i'm having fun with the irony of this.

[Foos]

EDIT: Persian Moron already got banned, my bad. Edited August 21, 2007 by Foos

[nestormakhno]

Wait, does this mean that this stupid argument can finally wilt?

Sweet! Drinks are on me, people

[Brownman18]

LOL manufactured news anyone?

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americ...ticle621189.ece

google bush administration manufacturing fake news


anybody reid hitlers book Mein klemph or whatever? Seems Bush is taking strategies streight from hitlers play book.


Good old news stations, capitalism has ruined them, news has to be reported and journalized, nowadays its all just news that the owners want us to see. If you dont believe me look into who owns which media outlets in the U.S.

Figures like Rupert Murdoch and such rule what we see and what we aren't alllowed to see.

Their is no more free press in North america that's a fact.


Good old Bush & Gore & Clintons (both) & almost every other candidate are members of the CFR (Council on foreign relations (the jackasses with the brilliant foreign policy the u.s has practiced for the past two decades)).

Even look into North American Union, which the CFR has already had put into place.

Thanks to P.M Martin, G.W Bush & Pres Vicente Fox.


Law's have already been signed, i could go on and on, but i doubt majority of you will even believe me at first, so i suggest you search said topics for yourself.

And for you canadians look into our new Finance minister, He's from Goldman Sachs (big u.s firm that donates heavily to republican party and CFR conventions).

Look into almost every appointee in Canada lately we've already been sold out and are in the process of integrating into the North American Union via economic policies being dictated by some dumbass investment banker who probably knows jack shit about economics to begin with.

the only solution out of the corporate elite's visions of a profit maximizing, low wage society of wal mart workers is Ron Paul, who to say is completely out of the loop. Edited October 17, 2007 by Brownman18

[ZenSilk]

Yeah.... Fox news can go die.
Biased news is hard to not find.

Did you see what happeend on the Big Idea with Donnie Deustch? (sp??)

The lady who wrote that book titled something along the lines of "If Democrats Had Any Brains, They'd be Republicans" told Donnie that if Catholicism is just Perfected Judaism. And he was very pissed.