We Can Debate All We Want

[MechAnt]

Many people justify hookah as a "healthier" substitute to smoking or worse but I disagree. Even tho there is no definitive evidence between hookah and cigarettes , smoking is smoking. To the nay-sayers, we choose to smoke hookah because it is something we love and enjoy doing. We can argue all we want but nothing will come of it. So I say, since we have chosen, smoke on brothers (and sisters). Smoke on.

Just wanted to get that off my chest because I've heard so many people say things out of their ass. Edited October 2, 2007 by MechAnt

[chinamon]

i completely agree, smoking is smoking.
people could smoke toe jam for all i care. they can try to tell me "theres no nicotine and no tar" but the smoke still carries contaminates that the human lungs dont need.
sure, hookah smoke may be low nicotine and low tar compared to cigarettes but we are inhaling massive volumes of smoke compared a cigarette. i think i blow out more smoke from 5 inhales of hookah than when i smoke a single cigarette.
and, exactly, how healthy is it to inhale glycerin? we've all seen how it gunks up our hoses and stems.

i dont let any of this bother me though. i enjoy it and i will continue doing it.

[MechAnt]

Amen to that brother!

[garykainz]

Agree'd. I know I don't smoke thinking "This isn't bad for me, it's fruity!" (Purple's a fruit...!) I smoke because I like doing it, it's relaxing and social. Period. I know I'm still smoking something I don't necessarily need to be inhaling. Such is life. Come out from under that rock, grab a beer and take the hose!

[SafeSearchOff]

anyone go to the bodies exhibit? they have smokers lungs. they are hardcore black. next to it they have a bin "put your cigarretes here - quit today". my brother takes out his pack, looks at it, and goes "fuck it, this cost $6!"

we all smoke for a reason. its not because we're ignorant and don't know its harmful. those of you who do... i'm sorry.
its harmful

[MechAnt]

I went to body works in LA. It was a really cool exhibit. The pregnant woman one, that was pretty disturbing yet so interesting at the same time.

[nofrendo]

"And if it gives me cancer when I'm 80 I don't care, who the hell wants to be 90 anyway?"

[SafeSearchOff]

we can always hope >.< i don't think its 100% proven yet right?

my grandpa gives me hope - worked with asbestos most his life, used to do 2 packs a day for a good 10, 15 years. now suffers from prostate problems... his lungs are fine.

[chinamon]

we can always hope >.< i don't think its 100% proven yet right?

my grandpa gives me hope - worked with asbestos most his life, used to do 2 packs a day for a good 10, 15 years. now suffers from prostate problems... his lungs are fine.

cancer has a lot to do with genetics. the problem is you dont know what your chances are until you have it.
cancer tends to run in my family. my sister was diagnosed when she was in grade 1 but is fine now. my grandfather died from cancer. my uncle died from cancer.

[racemyghost]

cancer has a lot to do with genetics. the problem is you dont know what your chances are until you have it.
cancer tends to run in my family. my sister was diagnosed when she was in grade 1 but is fine now. my grandfather died from cancer. my uncle died from cancer.

sorry to hear about your family.

smoke is smoke, i agree.

So if you're going to smoke in the first place, why go with Soex then? hahaha

[chinamon]

smoke is smoke, i agree.

So if you're going to smoke in the first place, why go with Soex then? hahaha

maybe to avoid the addicting characteristic of nicotine? i dunno....

[Johnny_D]

smoke is smoke, i agree.

So if you're going to smoke in the first place, why go with Soex then? hahaha

maybe to avoid the addicting characteristic of nicotine? i dunno....

Fair comment I guess....

But what do we know about the mid/long term use of smoking shredded sugar cane?!

At least with tobacco you know what your getting into. This is my major bug bare with anything
that claims to be 'herbal' Which in it's self is a misnomer.

As for the additiveness - I don't, personaly[1], believe that hookah holds addictive qualtities.

If I went back to smoking cigarettes i'd be hammering down 2 boxes a day and climbing the walls should i be unable to get any.

I can take or leave hookah at my leasure. I certainly don't need a session.

JD

[1] Not based on anything scientific, just my own casual observations.

[chinamon]

Fair comment I guess....

But what do we know about the mid/long term use of smoking shredded sugar cane?!

At least with tobacco you know what your getting into. This is my major bug bare with anything
that claims to be 'herbal' Which in it's self is a misnomer.

As for the additiveness - I don't, personaly[1], believe that hookah holds addictive qualtities.

If I went back to smoking cigarettes i'd be hammering down 2 boxes a day and climbing the walls should i be unable to get any.

I can take or leave hookah at my leasure. I certainly don't need a session.

JD

[1] Not based on anything scientific, just my own casual observations.

hmm... nicotine is a drug whether you want to think so or not. drugs do have a potential to be habit forming but the concentration/strength of the drug to become addicting would vary by individual.

i know that subject of drugs isnt allowed but i think this would be a fair argument for me to make.
all sorts of studies show that cocaine is highly addictive (and which i would agree to), however, i do know people that do it on occasion and are not addicted to it. much like how some people will have a cigarette when they drink but do not smoke on a regular basis. i think it all depends on the person and how much they take in. if you are smoking low nicotine tobacco your chances of becoming addicted are probably slim but there is a chance.

i hope i dont get flamed for this.

[Dr. Atkins]

Nicotine in and of itself is not very physiologically addictive. Psychological addiction to the act of smoking itself is much, much more powerful.

[anathema]

There are different degrees in smoking. How much you smoke are the degrees. Saying "smoking is smoking" is the same as saying someone who smokes 5 cigarettes a day has the same risk as someone who smokes 2 packs a day of getting lung cancer.

But that's probably not what you meant by "smoking is smoking." I don't really think smoking a hookah can be a substitute for cigarettes considering the difference of the ease of use and setup. I just started off smoking hookah, I don't really know any cig smokers that convert to hookah.

And you know how the have a cigarette smoker's lungs? They need hookah smoker's lungs also.

[cymptom]

While there's no reason for people to say that hookah is healthier than cigarettes, the "smoking is smoking" notion is just as misleading. Not only does this ignore the possibility that hookah smoking is actually worse for you than cigarettes, which it very well may be, but it oversimplifies in suggesting that all kinds of smoking are similarly damaging and neglects the reality that some kinds of smoking may actually be more or less safe than others.

Of course you can say that smoking is damaging no matter what, but that doesn't mean that the decision to smoke entails abandoning all concern for your health. There are many different kinds of coals with varying chemical compositions... wouldn't anyone like to know which emit the least amount of potentially dangerous gases? Wouldn't we like to know if our tobacco flavorings contained hazardous chemicals? Wouldn't anyone be interested in a way of smoking hookah that eliminated charcoal inhalation altogether? If hookah smoke is ideally just vaporized glycerin, flavoring, and nicotine (if you like,) how is that the same or even comparable to the burning plant matter of cigarette smoke?

Smoking is smoking, driving is driving, eating is eating... these kinds of statements always seem aimed at justifying carelessness.

[amnite]

While there's no reason for people to say that hookah is healthier than cigarettes, the "smoking is smoking" notion is just as misleading. Not only does this ignore the possibility that hookah smoking is actually worse for you than cigarettes, which it very well may be, but it oversimplifies in suggesting that all kinds of smoking are similarly damaging and neglects the reality that some kinds of smoking may actually be more or less safe than others.

Of course you can say that smoking is damaging no matter what, but that doesn't mean that the decision to smoke entails abandoning all concern for your health. There are many different kinds of coals with varying chemical compositions... wouldn't anyone like to know which emit the least amount of potentially dangerous gases? Wouldn't we like to know if our tobacco flavorings contained hazardous chemicals? Wouldn't anyone be interested in a way of smoking hookah that eliminated charcoal inhalation altogether? If hookah smoke is ideally just vaporized glycerin, flavoring, and nicotine (if you like,) how is that the same or even comparable to the burning plant matter of cigarette smoke?

Smoking is smoking, driving is driving, eating is eating... these kinds of statements always seem aimed at justifying carelessness.

agree with you, in my opinion and it will allways be a hookah cannot be compared to a cigarette, its proven in the past that temperature matters (ofcourse that famous scientist and many others suggested tha lower tha temp the less harmful, he found little cancer causing agents at 500 degrees burning of standard cigarette tobacco).. u burn cigarettes and heat shisha until it goes out. I dont know about you guys but I smoke shisha like once or twice every few months, when I have a lot of people around or when I wanna try new flavour or a special occassion with friends. Also for the soex thing when I tried it once I had stronger cravings than tobacco to smoke it again after a couple of days (the non-addictive ), the water was clean after use plus I had none of the tobacco feelings I usually get, I felt like I was just breathing in air. Ill try it again one day and see.

Wasn't it allways meant to be that you smoke shisha once in a while? I've seen people on this forum submitting pictures with about 10 tins of starbuzz or whatever. Edited October 3, 2007 by amnite

[Johnny_D]

Smoking is smoking, driving is driving, eating is eating... these kinds of statements always seem aimed at justifying carelessness.

Excellent analysis Cymptom and I fully agree with your sentiment.

Wasn't it allways meant to be that you smoke shisha once in a while? I've seen people on this forum submitting pictures with about 10 tins of starbuzz or whatever.

Interesting point also.

We have seen folks talking about smoking for 3hrs+ a day. Making bowls of tobacco last hours and hours.

I try to restrict myself to one bowl. And then only 3/4 times a week. One bowl normally equals around 2 hrs smoking. Occasionally on a saturday i might have a 2nd bowl.

JD

[ZenSilk]

Exactly. After i smoke Tangiers, i feel a little loopy and my voice is raspier. It's some powerful stuff, but that's usually only when i;'m taking cloud pictures with the homies. I now only take a hit about every 45-60 seconds, cause i always have a book when i smoke now. (Thank you Michael Crichton!). But i limit myself also, maybe 2-4 times a week at most. Everyone i hear from says that hookah is so much worse for you, cause you inhale 100x more smoke, yadayadayada. OK, no. If they used me in those stupid lab experiemnts i'd mess up their data, cause i don't take 500 damn puffs all power hits. For Christ's sake! Maybe 30-40 tops. Some big. Most smaller. But i know i am amoking, and there is smoke going in to my lungs.

But now i'm even more iffy at the moment about smoking, at the moment atleast (i'll get over it), cause of House last night. Cysts in the chick's lungs... eww.

[Jshenrikson]

I now only take a hit about every 45-60 seconds, cause i always have a book when i smoke now. (Thank you Michael Crichton!).

Michael Crichton is so damn good! Especially Prey, though when I read it I was in Death Valley and the whole book is about how people get killed mysteriously in the desert, so maybe not the best plan.

Okay, I really am not a fan of "scientific evidence" debates because honestly thats just making another mythology to follow. I know science has contributed an amazing amount of knowledge to this world (I work in a science lab by the way) but what makes the guy in the white lab coat God? Who says he hasn't skewed his data to please the person funding his project? I know of scientists who have been so attached to their hypothesis that they have thrown out evidence that disproves it.

I'm just saying that the people I know who smoke hookah daily have way less of a smokers cough (if any at all) than people who smoke cigarettes daily. Also, sometimes after smoking a couple hand rolled cigarettes I won't be able to get up, but I can smoke a whole hookah bowl of al waha and feel fine afterwards.

I think its too easy to follow what you are told by the media (whether its pro or anti hookah) and become self righteous about the whole thing. As Siddhartha Guatama said, "Be a lamp onto yourself." Find your own truth. Be your own master.

[ZenSilk]

OO, that cough thing is a good point! I wonder why that is? Even when i smoked three bowl consecutively one night, i didn't have a cough! Yet cig smokers are always clearing their throats and what not, hocking up phlegm.

And Timeline is my favorite by him i think. . I havnt read Jurassic Park or Prey though.

[aldonb1]

nice statement cymptom.

As to the *smokers cough* i personally believe this is due to hookahs producing a different composition of "tar" while compared to cigarettes. This is due to the shisha baked and releasing vapors instead of the tobacco being burned in a combustion reaction. Personally I am really interested in the composition of hookah tar, no study has been done on it as far as I can tell. I'm actually applying for a grant from school ($1500) to conduct research on the tar. Plan on doing standard stuff: composition, volume, density, etc. I plan on comparing the composition to known carcenogenes. (Luckly I get access to our schools bad ass mass spec). I hope to do this for: Al Amir, Al Waha, Nakhla, Tangiers, Afzal. Using quicklights (3k), japs (Starlights or Easy-Lights), and natural finger coals (Nour finger). I'll submit my proposal up here whenever I finish it and have my mentor look it over =)... sorry for getting a bit off topic.

time to go smoke some tangiers mint mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

[Dr. Atkins]

I'm just saying that the people I know who smoke hookah daily have way less of a smokers cough (if any at all) than people who smoke cigarettes daily. Also, sometimes after smoking a couple hand rolled cigarettes I won't be able to get up, but I can smoke a whole hookah bowl of al waha and feel fine afterwards.

Sounds like you're in denial!

[Scheetz]

Well, I look at it this way. We are going to receive some form of a cancer or effect like it. Look at the US food and drink products. They have started adding steroids at higher dosages to animals which in turn is passed to us. Milk is a prime example of this.

Why did I bring that up? Well, if the government will allow our citizens to ingest that shit, then you might as well indulge in a hookah 1 or 2 times a week. I do agree with the "smoking is smoking" statement. Cigars give you what? Cigs give you what? Chewing/Spitting Tobacco gives you what? They all produce one of the 10 or so end effects. Hookah is on that list as well. While there is no proof to say what a hookah only life will lead to in the end we can have somewhat of a rational guess. For those of you smoking 5+ hours a day, well expect to see these effects appear faster.


Here is the biggest difference in all the other smoking products and hookah. I have yet to run across a smoking product that doesn't leave you smelling like you put on shit cologne, or maybe lets call it Sex Panther. Now hookah on the other hand doesn't leave a lingering disgusting smell on you when you are done.


Oh yeah, almost forgot to add about the smokers cough and phlegm SuPAR KRAzy AKtiON. I was sitting out front of Starbucks yesterday with my mother. A 20 year old female sat down at another table and lit up a cigarette. Within the first 30 seconds I hear her start spitting. Now this wasn't the usual 1 time spit most smokers have. She formed a puddle on both sides of her from spitting. Every 10 seconds you would hear it. She smoked 3 cigs before she left. That was probably the most disgusting thing I have ever seen. I can tolerate a hell of alot, but that at 10 AM was a damn cheertastrophy. (LOL)

[Gaara]

I think everyone (at least in a Hookah forum) know about the dangers of Hookah smoke.