Suspended For Hookah

[Allia22]

Um, if hookah is not specified in the student handbook then you have a right to bitch. Now if it does state hookah then you cant.

Couldn't you have them simply smell your equipment? If nothing smells like illegal substances then they have no legitimate reason to seize your hookah or impose any diciplinary measures upon you.

You could try. My college has hookah specifically stated now. It didnt before but some kids got busted for using it with drugs. Now they listed the hookah in the handbook as being banned from campus/dorm.

ARGH!!! Send a million boxes to THEM. With dog poop inside. It's only half as foul as what they're doing to the reputation of the hookah

[Bazzi]

i go to the University of Bridgeport, which is a private university however, it is not religious affiliated. with the way i was treated and with my councler saying that the Indian and Middle Eastern students are permitted to have Narghiles/Hookahs in their dorms then i have a good chance of charging cultural discrimination. i hope it doesn't get to the point where i have to do this, but advisors and conclers have been telling me that i may have to sue.

[Geiseric]

If you have the support of any one adviser or counselor, by all means, go forward on the legal route. The fact that they have made an exception for race has opened the door WIDE open for discrimination suits. Even if they retract their judgment, I would go ahead and take legal action for reparation. They did something very hard to legally justify, and you have to perfect opportunity to make a precedent that will bar these bastards from doing it again.

To Allia22: The reputation of the Hookah? The hookah was historically originated for use with substances we now consider taboo (I'm not going to say what, this forum seems to have a phobia of speaking of certain things). Whether or not you take issue with said uses, the idea of banning paraphernalia because it has a the potential to be used with illegal substances is bordering on insane. One might as well ban the consumption of fruit, because some frat boy had been seen using the fruit in a less than respectable manner. The fact that more and more I have seen such attitudes in Universities and colleges truly shows the failure of the academic approach to criminality, which truly saddens me. Edited October 27, 2007 by Geiseric

[Bazzi]

geiseric...i applaud. my hats off to you.

[RyCon]

Who searched your room (and why)? From your one description it sounds like the police searched your room. I'm an RA at ASU and we're not allowed to touch anything (not even the light switch) let alone take something from a resident's room. It sounds like there is more back story to this.
Good luck to you though. I'm sorry your school has such a weird policy on hookahs.

[Dekon]

Who searched your room (and why)? From your one description it sounds like the police searched your room. I'm an RA at ASU and we're not allowed to touch anything (not even the light switch) let alone take something from a resident's room. It sounds like there is more back story to this.
Good luck to you though. I'm sorry your school has such a weird policy on hookahs.

Well if the police talked to the dean and the dean approved the search wouldn't that make it legal to touch anything and everything? I'm sorry if i get these things wrong, maybe law and order hasn't helped me much....

[lemmiwinks]

No, they would still need a warrant. The dean doesn't have the right to take away someone's civil rights, this isn't a high school locker it's where someone lives.

[Dekon]

No, they would still need a warrant. The dean doesn't have the right to take away someone's civil rights, this isn't a high school locker it's where someone lives.

Well i don't go to college so i'm not really fond of the whole dorm thing. :\

[Geiseric]

As earlier stated in the thread, you would be surprised to know how little rights tenants (if you can call them that) have in dorms. When I lived on campus, my university used to do dorm checks when the campus shut down for big holidays (where they would boot everyone off campus... don't even get me started on that) where they would search rooms. The cover was that it was for property destruction and health violations, but we all knew that if you had anything they could find, they would find it then. They get to slip through a lot a regulations normal landlords have to follow because there is all kinds of exceptions in our law that loosen regulations for any kind of educational institution (which is odd, one would think regulations would be tighter).

*Edit*
I'm sorry if thats a little jumbled, and I'm not gonna back it up with quotes from laws, I'm too goddamned tired to search through archives. Stupid 8 am classes. Edited October 29, 2007 by Geiseric

[ahwahoo2006]

I don't know specifics about your college, but here's my advice. First, don't do anything stupid or illegal to "get back" at any administration member. Here's what I found from a quick look through your school's website.

Chapter 4

Hazardous Property
The following hazardous items are prohibited in all residence halls. Possession or use of such hazardous substances may result in disciplinary actions, fines, immediate confiscation, and/or suspension, dismissal, expulsion.

Explosives of any kind: Gasoline, kerosene, lighter fluid, or other flammable liquids
Incense
Fireworks
Illicit drugs or drug paraphernalia

RIGHT TO INSPECT ROOMS
The right to inspect rooms is retained by the University. Rooms may be searched without notice to the student if the University reasonably believes that there is the presence of property or activity in the room that violates any University policy, criminal law or constitutes an immediate hazard to the safety, health or welfare of any occupant of the residence hall. Upon reasonable notice, or without notice in the University's sole discretion, rooms may be entered by University personnel for extermination, maintenance repair and/or to turn off loud music. In cases when there is probable cause, except for maintenance and noise elimination situations, the Dean of Students, DRL, ADRL or designee must grant verbal and/or written approval prior to inspecting a student's room.

In addition, to preserve the aesthetic physical structure of the living community and to ensure that rooms are being taken care of, residence life staff will be conducting monthly unannounced room inspections to check the overall condition of the room.

The following are safety violations. An immediate $50.00 fine will be imposed on room occupants for these violations. Residential life staff may also immediately confiscate the objects listed below:

LIT AND UNLIT CANDLES AND INCENSE ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THE RESIDENCE HALLS AT ANYTIME
Cooking units or hot plates with exposed heating elements
Immersion coils of any type
Electrical appliances with frayed or damaged cords
Octopus-like electrical cord arrangements
Cloth, paper or wood draped under or covering the ceiling or ceiling light fixtures, radiators, or electrical outlets
Cloth and/or paper that covers or surrounds outlets or electrical appliances
Space heaters of any type
Christmas or string lights not "Underwriters' Laboratories" listed
Christmas trees or cut plants larger than three feet in height
Flammable decorations. Hanging wall and ceiling products such as tapestries, posters, and flags, may not cover more than 50% of any one wall space. This is to prevent the item from igniting and spreading the fire faster
Halogen, floor torchiere lights.

If the above violations are found, a student will be fined an immediate (no hearing held) $50.00 on initial inspection and an additional $50.00 every time an inspection (announced or unannounced) is conducted and for every day that a residence hall staff member views the violation. Unapproved or unacceptable materials may be confiscated and stored until arrangements are made for proper handling.

Chapter 5

Cases of alleged violations by students of stated University policies will be reported to the University Judicial Officer (UJO).

All charges shall be presented to the Accused Student/Respondent in written form. A time shall be set for a SCB hearing, not fewer than five nor more than fifteen calendar days after the student has been notified. Maximum time limits for scheduling of SCB hearings may be extended at the discretion of the SCA.

The student may attend an information session during which the student can view all materials related to the case, receive instruction regarding the disciplinary process and the student’s rights, and confirm the forum in which the case will be heard.

It looks like you will have the chance to present your case - take the time to do some research, talk to vendors here, your school might have a law center, or even think about the ACLU (as much as I dislike them, they may be able to help here).

[ElCubano]

Here is the problem: You go to a private university where they have the right to make their own rules. People who live in dormitories do not have the same rights as tenants in private apartment buildings. Why? First, when you applied for housing, you signed a housing contract waiving your right to refuse university entry. Also, dormitories fall under hotel search rules, meaning that the university is entitled to enter your room <u>for any reason</u>. They do not need probable cause to enter.

Also, you aren't going to win any kind of legal battle. Private universities do not need to conform to the same kind of discrimination laws public universities need to. For example, in Bob Jones University v. United States, 2000 (461 U.S. 574), Bob Jones University was allowed to prohibit its students from, get this: INTERRACIAL DATING!, so long as their tax-exempt status was revoked. It may seem unfair, but your university's policy is not illegal. Another example: at Duke University (where I go to school), students acquitted of crimes such as underage drinking, can still face university charges. While this is illegal at public universities (in most states), private universities have the right to their own legal process (Judicial Affairs) because you agreed to their jurisdiction when you became a student and you have the right to leave or stay within that jurisdiction by leaving or staying in school.

My advice is to go to Judicial Affairs with this, explain why you have a hookah (tobacco), tell them that you learned something from this situation, seem remorseful and tell them -gasp- you'll never smoke hookah again on campus . I had a friend that was in a similar situation (it involved a fake ID and underage drinking), and the more he fought it the more the university fought back. Eventually he just apologized, said he learned from the situation and promised to never use a fake-ID again. The university reversed his punishment and stuck the whole ordeal off his record.

Unfortunately, all this goes to show how many misconceptions there are about hookah. At Duke once, I was smoking Hookah outside on the student plaza with some friends and someone called the police on us! Fortunately the cop that responded was a hookah smoker himself lol! Too bad the people that searched your room were dumb-asses. Seriously, confiscating cigars and hookah! Idiots.

Good luck. Don't waste your time on crazy legal plans, they probably won't work. Just try to convince the university in a non-threatening, calm manner. They're more likely to respond to that.

[Geiseric]

While this may be true, people laying down and taking it is why universities are able to continue to pull this fascist bullshit. But, go your own route, Bazzi, it's your decision, and you are they only one there, and able to see what your chances are either way. Have any updates on the situation?

[lemmiwinks]

ElCubano, while private universities may not have to follow the guidelines that public universities do, but they don't have a policy (that I've seen) banning tobacco products or hookah. They banned drug paraphernalia, and because a hookah isn't drug paraphernalia they have no right to confiscate it (or cigars for that matter, don't know what the hell that was about).

[sguittap]

so my school is suspending me because they found a Syrian Hookah in my room, and are classifying it as drug paraphernalia. pretty crass shit.
i'm trying to appeal it by saying it isn't used for weed and also for cultural discrimination (i am mediterranean)

i am kind of stuck in a hole here, does anyone have any ideas of what i can do?

how the fuck does that school have the right to search your room? unless your in a dorm in which case, im sorry to admit youre retarded for keeping large parahernalia in your room such as a hookah. i pray youre arent smoking in there also? cant decide whether to high five you for bravory or call you stupid. but my friend goes to baylor and they have strict smoking regs..so he keeps his in his car thats parked off campus. but sorry for your bust

[lemmiwinks]

how the fuck does that school have the right to search your room? unless your in a dorm in which case, im sorry to admit youre retarded for keeping large parahernalia in your room such as a hookah. i pray youre arent smoking in there also? cant decide whether to high five you for bravory or call you stupid. but my friend goes to baylor and they have strict smoking regs..so he keeps his in his car thats parked off campus. but sorry for your bust

The entire point is that a hookah isn't drug paraphernalia. From what I've read there is nothing in the school policy banning tobacco products from dorms, so they had no right to confiscate it... they're just ignorant assclowns.

[ahwahoo2006]

I have a feeling that even if he can get them to admit it is not drug paraphanelia, they will still classify it under the hazardous materials clause.

[Geiseric]

The whole paraphernalia issue is kind of null on the first place. Head shops are allowed to sell it (at least in MN) as tobaccoiana, despite the fact that a good many of them would crack or warp if real tobacco was smoked in them. The stores are licensed to sell them as tobacco products... But we are not allowed to own them as such? Ahhhh, capitalism, my hypocritical friend. Truly never such a convoluted mess of expectations has ever existed. They want to make money on the market, but they do not want the product to excist...

[evatall]

PM SENT

[HookahCulture]

Hookahs are EXEMPT from the Drug Paraphernalia Statute under U.S. CODE TITLE 21, CHAPTER 13, SUBCHAPTER I, Part D, §863.f.
Oh yeah and as above, have the cops swab it for drugs.
Last time I heard, federal law overrides all others.

TELL THEM TO STICK IT AND SUE THEM!
Make as big a deal as you can with this.
Don't forget to contact the school paper!
It's the best avenue for exposing and embarrassing university antagonists with the truth.
I'd be willing to bet they'll settle out of court. Edited October 31, 2007 by HookahCulture

[Geiseric]

Hookahs are EXEMPT from the Drug Paraphernalia Statute under U.S. CODE TITLE 21, CHAPTER 13, SUBCHAPTER I, Part D, §863.f.

Nice find. Haven't seen that before.

[olooko]

what do they define as search. In most cases it means look but no touch. i hope this helps

[Gaara]

so my school is suspending me because they found a Syrian Hookah in my room, and are classifying it as drug paraphernalia. pretty crass shit.
i'm trying to appeal it by saying it isn't used for weed and also for cultural discrimination (i am mediterranean)

i am kind of stuck in a hole here, does anyone have any ideas of what i can do?

What school do you goto?

It pays off to goto a school where Hookah's are popular and lounges are only a few blocks away. As well as living off campus .

[ElCubano]

Hookahs are EXEMPT from the Drug Paraphernalia Statute under U.S. CODE TITLE 21, CHAPTER 13, SUBCHAPTER I, Part D, §863.f.
Oh yeah and as above, have the cops swab it for drugs.
Last time I heard, federal law overrides all others.

*Not on private property.* You can't break law on private property but you can refine it.

Ex.
Federal law allows me to smoke hookah in my own home. The second I go into my mom's home and start smoking, however, she'll kick me out. Same thing in college: Private schools are private property with private rules. Just like my mother can kick me out of her house if I do something legal that she doesn't like, a private college can kick me out for smoking hookah, just because they don't like it--no questions asked.

Also, just like my mother doesn't have to give me a piece of paper telling me not to smoke, colleges don't need to explicitly state that hookah use is wrong to kick you out. The fact that legally, hookah is not paraphenalia is moot. If I wanted to, I could define an apple as parahernalia and bann all apples from my home. Would this be incredibly stupid? Yes. Illegal? No. My home, my rules, my definition of paraphenalia.

people laying down and taking it is why universities are able to continue to pull this fascist bullshit.

This has nothing to do w/ "sticking it to the man." You agreed to the jurisdiction of "the man" when you made the choice to go to a college. If you don't want to listen to your professors, university police, administrators, etc., don't go to college. They didn't force their rules on you, you agreed to them. If its bullshit, don't sign on. I don't want my mother telling me whether or not I can smoke in her house, so I moved out.

[Geiseric]

They didn't force their rules on you, you agreed to them. If its bullshit, don't sign on.

I hate to turn this into a flame war, but you, sir, are a moron, and I'm quite certain your song would change if you were told by your landlord that despite not being in your lease, he had decided your hookah was drug related, and as such your rent and deposit was his, and you were on the street. It is easy to ignore and ridicule the plights and mistakes of others when one is in a position of relative comfort. To allow injustice is to promote it. To ignore it is to cede to the viability of its existence.

To exist competitively in this world, one must get some form of post-high school education. This is purchased from the college or university. Often this comes along with housing, most often demanded of first year students. You sign a contract for this housing, akin to a lease. In his case, he agreed to this:

Hazardous Property
The following hazardous items are prohibited in all residence halls. Possession or use of such hazardous substances may result in disciplinary actions, fines, immediate confiscation, and/or suspension, dismissal, expulsion.

Explosives of any kind: Gasoline, kerosene, lighter fluid, or other flammable liquids
Incense
Fireworks
Illicit drugs or drug paraphernalia

Hmm... that's funny. Nothing about tobacco paraphernalia? Quoting Hookah-culture here,

Hookahs are EXEMPT from the Drug Paraphernalia Statute under U.S. CODE TITLE 21, CHAPTER 13, SUBCHAPTER I, Part D, §863.f.

It would seem they are ad-libbing rules and regulations in regards to what is in the (equivalent of the) lease.

As to your ridiculous comparison of living your mother, YOUR MOTHER OWNS THE HOUSE. The house has not been leased to you, she is not licensed to rent the house, therefore she is not required to follow federal standards in regards to tenants!

*Edit*
BTW, way to support your fellow hookah-smokers. Edited October 31, 2007 by Geiseric

[lemmiwinks]

props Geiseric, thanks for saving me the time.

Let us know how this turns out, if you play your cards right it should only be a matter of time before you get your hookah etc. back and probably an ass-kissing apology.