Moving Up....endlessly

[Bulldog_916]

I'm not necessarily complaining, but just a quick observation. Gas prices are rising again, back to post Katrina levels and even more than post Katrina levels. When it comes out that energy investors are deciding the price of gasoline (a "commodity") it rings of the middle man theory. I hate it because the cost of gasoline isnt in the cost of refining, extracting or even additives. It is based on how afraid PEOPLE are that gasoline will suddenly become scarce. But refining capacity, while falling in some places, is rising in other places. Not only that, but the oil companies themselves wont allow extraction to fall because that would cut in to their profits. Think about it, if extraction falls a certain amount, even the profits gained from raising the price wont make up for that lost supply. Or...are profits so high that even a large drop in extraction wont make too much of a difference?

So it seems that the US economy, as a whole, is ready to crash. Almost no one is ready to do anything about it. I'd like to be able to take my bike to work, but work is almost 10 miles away, it would take, roughly an hour to get to work and losing that sleep isnt an option....I cant just peddle faster. No one lives near enough to carpool effectively. Are we ready for a recession? I'm trying to scrounge money like a squirrel but as costs for normal things like clothes, electricity, food, and gasoline rise, there is nothing to put away at the end of the week after bills are paid.

Seems as if we're all screwed.....

[lemmiwinks]

Yeah gas companies are douchebags. But it does make sense that gas prices steadily rise, not only because of fears of running out but because we are, in fact, slowly running out of it. I personally am not horribly worried, I'm sure that alternative fuels will be created before our gasoline supply is depleted... But in the meantime I guess it sucks, I don't have to drive much luckily.

As for your personal problem... Buy an electric car! Or a scooter! Or a dune buggy! Or invent your own mode of transportation that is vastly superior to any current technology! Or pedal faster!

[Johnny_D]

Yer. Must be terrible for you lot.

Try paying $2.10 per litre.

JD - Paying $2.10 per litre.

[dude3516]

I drive a motorcycle that gets me 80mpg....mm I love alternative transportation.

[Bulldog_916]

So you're telling me you're paying almost 10 dollars a gallon? Crap. And your dollar is more valuable than ours. Double crap. Isnt that because of your government and all the taxes and duties on gasoline rather than the actual cost?

The faster we get away from cars the better off we'll all be. But how fast that happens depends on when the cost of maintaining a 1 ton vehicle becomes overwhelming. The big car companies will keep that from happening for sure. For now, they just want us to continue buying their cars, so they increase fuel economy in small amounts to make it look like they are doing something.

Lemmi, I've actually been looking at Geo Metros seriously. Good for the daily deal (55+ MPG) and I'll have a hauler in the form of a truck as a backup.

[Johnny_D]

So you're telling me you're paying almost 10 dollars a gallon? Crap. And your dollar is more valuable than ours. Double crap. Isnt that because of your government and all the taxes and duties on gasoline rather than the actual cost?

The faster we get away from cars the better off we'll all be. But how fast that happens depends on when the cost of maintaining a 1 ton vehicle becomes overwhelming. The big car companies will keep that from happening for sure. For now, they just want us to continue buying their cars, so they increase fuel economy in small amounts to make it look like they are doing something.

Lemmi, I've actually been looking at Geo Metros seriously. Good for the daily deal (55+ MPG) and I'll have a hauler in the form of a truck as a backup.

Basically Bulldog. yes. It's painfully expensive. and much more and, like you said earlier, we are going to face economic collapse.

and I believe it's around 70p in the £1 [$1.40 per $2] is TAX.

someone has to pay for Gordon Brown's pies.

JD

[Doubon]

I drive a motorcycle that gets me 80mpg....mm I love alternative transportation.

or get a scooter... those are hella fun and you don't need insurance
for a 50cc (but it only goes aroung 40mph ) Edited November 6, 2007 by Doubon

[.ryan]

Gas should be more expensive. It would force people to live closer to their work, take public transit, walk more (good for the whole obese problem also), reduce greenhouse gases, reduce injuries and fatalities from car accidents, force development of alternate fuels, and so on. I generally view increased gas prices as a good thing. I believe it would help the densification of cities, thus reducing sub-urban sprawl and benefiting the health and wellness of the environment and population.

Edit:

Of course there are also some downsides to increased gas prices such as increased cost of goods, commercial travel, and you having pay more to get around. But, these are only short to medium term problems. A prolonged increase in gas prices would eventually cause these problems to be solved, it would just involved a slight change in lifestyle and business practice. Unfortunately, people do not like change, even if it might improve the health of themselves and the world they live in. Edited November 6, 2007 by .ryan

[dude3516]

well Doubon, considering I'm getting 80mpg off a 250cc that cruises alright at 70mph and can hit 90 if I need it too, I'll stick with the insurance. Plus it's only $80 a month and that is like top of the line, $250 deductible, and a $50k life insurance policy.

[ASUSEAN1]

dont drive ineffecient cars, get a diesel.. fix your problems when you can get 30-40 miles a gallon and its about the same price as gas if not cheaper

[Foos]

Gas should be more expensive. It would force people to live closer to their work, take public transit, walk more (good for the whole obese problem also), reduce greenhouse gases, reduce injuries and fatalities from car accidents, force development of alternate fuels, and so on. I generally view increased gas prices as a good thing. I believe it would help the densification of cities, thus reducing sub-urban sprawl and benefiting the health and wellness of the environment and population.

And thats why some theories will always be just that...theories. Why do you think "sub-urban sprawl" happens in the first place. Cities become too populated, theres a lack of living space and so suburbs are created. How is raising gas prices going to force people to live closer to their jobs when its not even possible for them to move closer? I will agree with you though that living in a large city does usually give you good access to public transportation but a city is no place for a family. Raising gas prices would easily cause a lot more bad than good. Im just curious, have you ever lived in a big city before? Id choose to live in a suburb over a big city any day.

[.ryan]

I think sub-urban sprawl happens because of poor city planning leading to a lack of living space. Creating suburbs because of a lack of living space just uses up a lot of land space and leads to an overweight, car dependent, wasteful population. A better solution would be to plan cities with a dense population, lots of green space, sensible transportation routes, and dual use zoning.

How is raising gas prices going to force people to live closer to their jobs when its not even possible for them to move closer?

Unfortunately, you are right, many cities in North America are poorly designed and the sub-urban sprawl has surrounded them which severely hinders future expansion of dense living space. And just to be clear, higher gas prices are not the sole reason for densification, it is just one cause of many that will eventually lead to it.

Also, I am sorry, but I disagree with you, I believe a city is a wonderful place to raise a family.

And to answer your question:

I was born, raised, and currently live in a big city, I have also lived for a time in a suburb. I'd choose to live in a city over a suburb any day.

[Bulldog_916]

The thing is that most areas around where people work inside the city are crime infested. I cant tell you the last time I walked downtown Sacramento at night. Granted, law enforcement is good in that area, but it is by no means sufficient.

Commercial and residential areas are often separated by several miles. The nearest residential area to my work is far too expensive still to even contemplate moving there. The affordable area is trash (we're talking 650 a month for that area). It's practically gangland. I dont think moving closer to work is 1. an affordable option, and 2. a practical option.

If gas prices climb too much more, it would drive the US and its allies (England, Japan, Canada) into a recession. The housing market is already crashing because of borderline HORRIBLE debt. People cant afford the houses they live in because they were granted loans they cant afford. As more of these things happen in an endless chain we begin to buy less and less extraneous goods (TV's, cars, iPods, computers). Businesses lay off workers because demand for goods is down. Less need for more workers. Unemployment goes up. Government doesnt have the means (because of a 4 trillion dollar deficit, hello Iraq!) to help Americans. This causes MORE debt, driving spending down further. The chain reaction is hard to break. Pretty soon we're all screwed.

[.ryan]

Commercial and residential areas are separated by several miles because of poor urban planning and single use zoning. Dual use zoning would alleviate this problem by creating areas where commercial and residential areas occupy the same land space.

Also, I can not speak for England and Japan, but I believe a rise in gas prices would not trigger a recession for Canada. Our housing market is booming and looks to continue booming for the next few years, our dollar is skyrocketing (the highest it has ever been), the north is proving to be a gold mine in terms of oil and gas reserves, and there are so many jobs to be had that in some areas of Alberta McDonald's is having to pay, in some areas, upwards of $14 CAD per hour ($15.30 USD) just to get people to work for them, unemployment is at an all time low. Our banks are even breaking tradition and not cutting rates in mirror of the American banks.

[TheScotsman]

Gas should be more expensive. It would force people to live closer to their work, take public transit, walk more (good for the whole obese problem also), reduce greenhouse gases, reduce injuries and fatalities from car accidents, force development of alternate fuels, and so on. I generally view increased gas prices as a good thing. I believe it would help the densification of cities, thus reducing sub-urban sprawl and benefiting the health and wellness of the environment and population.

Edit:

Of course there are also some downsides to increased gas prices such as increased cost of goods, commercial travel, and you having pay more to get around. But, these are only short to medium term problems. A prolonged increase in gas prices would eventually cause these problems to be solved, it would just involved a slight change in lifestyle and business practice. Unfortunately, people do not like change, even if it might improve the health of themselves and the world they live in.

So far cost hasn't impacted the public in the least.

Think back to last Feb - Crude was nearing 60$/bbl, and all the economists said the economy would collapse in months if it topped the big 60. Did you see a whole load of car pooling? How about public transport? Did it make the highways look like they were ready for the next remake of "Omega Man"? Nope, people just complain, and a bigger SUV.

The worst are the fools standing next to the SUV they HAD to have, although it's never seen a gravel road. They really needed a grocery getter that was big enough to see clearly on "google earth"? Now I get to hear them piss and moan on the nightly news about the cost to keep it moving? Is that silly, or is it just me? What did they think, the 10mpg on that door sticker meant... 10 minutes pumping gas?

Is it going to cause a problem? Sooner, or later, yes... but in typical American fashion, we will wait until it's a total mess, then congress will have to hold hearings about the cause, then we will get a whole bus load of useless mandates, laws, and various other infringements into our lives.... all to satisfy the same fools that needed a 10 cyl expedition to haul the snot-gobblers to the same damn school the bus would have taken them to... Yeppers, makes sense to me!

Just what "alternate fuels" would you suggest? It seems every politician mentions them, half of the public thinks there is some magic fuel just waiting to be tapped... there isn't, at least not in any foreseeable future.

[TheScotsman]

dont drive ineffecient cars, get a diesel.. fix your problems when you can get 30-40 miles a gallon and its about the same price as gas if not cheaper

Diesel pollution is much worse for both people, and the environment. Their particulate count is so far above a petrol fueled engine it's not even worth comparing. Most of the particulate emission is <.2 micron, and lodges in lung tissue for extended periods. Diesels emit high levels of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, Formaldehyde, and butadiene among other well known carcinogens. Diesel combustion byproducts are significantly higher in NOx and sulphur compounds. They are horribly dirty engines.

In the end, the power, or rather overpower the public would want is not going to turn 30 mpg with any fuel.

[.ryan]

Gas should be more expensive. It would force people to live closer to their work, take public transit, walk more (good for the whole obese problem also), reduce greenhouse gases, reduce injuries and fatalities from car accidents, force development of alternate fuels, and so on. I generally view increased gas prices as a good thing. I believe it would help the densification of cities, thus reducing sub-urban sprawl and benefiting the health and wellness of the environment and population.

Edit:

Of course there are also some downsides to increased gas prices such as increased cost of goods, commercial travel, and you having pay more to get around. But, these are only short to medium term problems. A prolonged increase in gas prices would eventually cause these problems to be solved, it would just involved a slight change in lifestyle and business practice. Unfortunately, people do not like change, even if it might improve the health of themselves and the world they live in.

So far cost hasn't impacted the public in the least.

Think back to last Feb - Crude was nearing 60$/bbl, and all the economists said the economy would collapse in months if it topped the big 60. Did you see a whole load of car pooling? How about public transport? Did it make the highways look like they were ready for the next remake of "Omega Man"? Nope, people just complain, and a bigger SUV.

The worst are the fools standing next to the SUV they HAD to have, although it's never seen a gravel road. They really needed a grocery getter that was big enough to see clearly on "google earth"? Now I get to hear them piss and moan on the nightly news about the cost to keep it moving? Is that silly, or is it just me? What did they think, the 10mpg on that door sticker meant... 10 minutes pumping gas?

Is it going to cause a problem? Sooner, or later, yes... but in typical American fashion, we will wait until it's a total mess, then congress will have to hold hearings about the cause, then we will get a whole bus load of useless mandates, laws, and various other infringements into our lives.... all to satisfy the same fools that needed a 10 cyl expedition to haul the snot-gobblers to the same damn school the bus would have taken them to... Yeppers, makes sense to me!

And that right there is exactly the problem. People are selfish and don't care for things to change, even though making some changes will, in the long term, benefit their children and grandchildren and great grandchildren and everyone who comes after them.

Just what "alternate fuels" would you suggest? It seems every politician mentions them, half of the public thinks there is some magic fuel just waiting to be tapped... there isn't, at least not in any foreseeable future.

There are plenty of alternate fuels avaliable to power cars, including:

Compressed air
Battery-electric
Biofuels
Compressed Natural Gas
Hybrid electric
Hydrogen
Liquid Nitrogen
Solar
Steam

Unfortunately, since the preferred fuel was chosen to be gas some 100 years ago, many of the technologies have been undeveloped and underutilized until recently. As of right now, I would agree with you in saying there is no economically viable alternative fuel, at least not in the near future.

[Scheetz]

Well, many a scientist has claimed there is no shortage of oil. The US has done a fine job of pissing off every country that controls oil, therefore prices are inflated. If the damn corn crap would stop occurring as well prices would drop. Honestly, milk in my area is up to $4.50 a gal for 2% because corn has increased in price. Why, because people like Gore feel it should be used for gas. So the farmers raise the price of it, now dairy farmers have to increase their price on milk to cover the corn feed increase. So what happens in the end. The overseeing people screw over everyone else that lives in the country.

Then you look at Europe. They laugh at us for complaining about paying $3 for a gallon. They have been paying $9-$10 for a gallon now for a long time. If you look at the trend, whatever we pay for a gallon, they pretty much pay for 1 liter.


Funny, people complain that they lose income because of increased gas prices. But yet they are all for increasing their taxes to cover socialized medicine.

[Bulldog_916]

Increased gas prices and socialized medicine are so far from each other that they dont even belong in the same hemisphere. Plus, Americans are so completely anti-tax that I'm shocked that we even HAVE a budget to work with. We want more but we want to pay less for it.

I agree with the Scotsman in what he says about the huge SUVs. What's crazy is that even as gas prices continue to rise, I keep on seeing the new stickers on the Expeditions, Tahoes, F250s and Yukons. Granted, fewer of them are being purchased, but still they are a strong market. Hybrid vehicles are making strides for sure. But not nearly fast enough. There are few tax deductions for owning a hybrid, which causes relatively little motivation for purchasing one. And it seems as if roomier cars are so much the norm here that if a car is even slightly cramped it kills the rating for the car itself. For example, I was looking at Toyota Priuses from this model year. Almost every complaint about it was in the roominess of the car and the fact that it was "underpowered." I think we're so spoiled with high powered vehicles that we cant really function without being able to pound the accelerator.

Also, people are trying to take the patriotic route and buy American made cars even though most of them are terribly made. I've gotten brow-beaten from some of my friends for buying a Nissan. I keep telling them that Japanese made cars are among the most reliable in the world, but they dont believe me. One of my friends owned a 4 cyl. 2000 Frontier and took it 225k miles with only a brake job, transmission repair, and oil changes that were few and far between. That's what convinced me to go Japanese. So far, I havent been very disappointed. (Save for one repair having to do with the thermostat and fan clutch. That kinda pissed me off a bit.)

[TheScotsman]

Gas should be more expensive. It would force people to live closer to their work, take public transit, walk more (good for the whole obese problem also), reduce greenhouse gases, reduce injuries and fatalities from car accidents, force development of alternate fuels, and so on. I generally view increased gas prices as a good thing. I believe it would help the densification of cities, thus reducing sub-urban sprawl and benefiting the health and wellness of the environment and population.

Edit:

Of course there are also some downsides to increased gas prices such as increased cost of goods, commercial travel, and you having pay more to get around. But, these are only short to medium term problems. A prolonged increase in gas prices would eventually cause these problems to be solved, it would just involved a slight change in lifestyle and business practice. Unfortunately, people do not like change, even if it might improve the health of themselves and the world they live in.

So far cost hasn't impacted the public in the least.

Think back to last Feb - Crude was nearing 60$/bbl, and all the economists said the economy would collapse in months if it topped the big 60. Did you see a whole load of car pooling? How about public transport? Did it make the highways look like they were ready for the next remake of "Omega Man"? Nope, people just complain, and a bigger SUV.

The worst are the fools standing next to the SUV they HAD to have, although it's never seen a gravel road. They really needed a grocery getter that was big enough to see clearly on "google earth"? Now I get to hear them piss and moan on the nightly news about the cost to keep it moving? Is that silly, or is it just me? What did they think, the 10mpg on that door sticker meant... 10 minutes pumping gas?

Is it going to cause a problem? Sooner, or later, yes... but in typical American fashion, we will wait until it's a total mess, then congress will have to hold hearings about the cause, then we will get a whole bus load of useless mandates, laws, and various other infringements into our lives.... all to satisfy the same fools that needed a 10 cyl expedition to haul the snot-gobblers to the same damn school the bus would have taken them to... Yeppers, makes sense to me!

And that right there is exactly the problem. People are selfish and don't care for things to change, even though making some changes will, in the long term, benefit their children and grandchildren and great grandchildren and everyone who comes after them.

Just what "alternate fuels" would you suggest? It seems every politician mentions them, half of the public thinks there is some magic fuel just waiting to be tapped... there isn't, at least not in any foreseeable future.

There are plenty of alternate fuels avaliable to power cars, including:

Compressed air
Battery-electric
Biofuels
Compressed Natural Gas
Hybrid electric
Hydrogen
Liquid Nitrogen
Solar
Steam

Unfortunately, since the preferred fuel was chosen to be gas some 100 years ago, many of the technologies have been undeveloped and underutilized until recently. As of right now, I would agree with you in saying there is no economically viable alternative fuel, at least not in the near future.

Alternate fuels, and why these are not feasible.

1-Steam
Where are you planning on getting this steam? it takes fuel to heat the water, and the only portable fuels efficient enough are liquids. We are right back where we started, only this time we are using a much less thermally efficient engine (2% on triple expansion EC vs 7-12% on reciprocating piston IC. So, unless you are planning a visit from the "steam faerie" this is useless.
2-Solar
Ya, great idea, too bad the output is so low it's not good for much more than holding a battery charged. I live where is is common to have weeks on end with overcast sky, not to mention the winter daylight is rather short. Cell efficiency falls fast under 0deg. A million+$ battery of cells barely moved a featherweight car through a desert. Not practical at this point, not the near future.
3-
Liquid N2. Hmmm, you got a liquid N2 well? Nope? See steam problem.
4-
Hybrids... the road to efficiency is paved with hybrid morons. Study the battery, and the natural damage, fuels needed, and the toxic waste resulting from these. Both MIT, and Carnegie Mellon have done studies that show hands-down, a hybrid takes more fuel, and causes more pollution through it's life (from raw material to scrape pile) than a conventional vehicle. In MIT's case the comparison was a prius vs an H3. Besides, I live in the far north reaches of Minn, it gets cold here... and these pieces of junk won't even move most of Jan & Feb.
5-Hydrogen My personal favourite myth! (and one of the main topics of my dissertation) There are only 2 types of engine we have in commercial production that will run on hydrogen "safely" (as in without exploding) The gas turbine, or the wankel. The valve overlap in reciprocating engine creates a moment where both valves are open, at lower speeds this is significantly long enough to allow flashover. H2 burns vigorously with no visible flame, has no odor, and will suppress your ability to breath. Ya, I want a pressurized tank of that under my seat! Besides, it takes ENERGY to supply the H2. Nukes are the only non-fossil source of that energy at this time. Ready for one in your back yard?
6-Bio
I heat my house, garage and business with corn-burners. I can tell you they are efficient, and cost effective, but the cost of corn was 95$/ton last fall, and now it's 165.$ mostly as a result of Ethanol. We can't grow enough corn to replace oil for just heating, much less automotive. BioDiesel? Well, it sure makes me hungry! My bobcat is biodiesel powered, and every time I use it I want a big plate of french fries. It smells great!
7-compressed air????
Never heard that one before, but still takes energy to compress! Back to the same problem as the steam engine. I'll tell you what, you get the bicycle pump, and lets see how far that idea goes. A 250 CC engine turning 6K would displace 1.5MILLION cc's of air at 1 atmosphere... per minute!!!!!!!! That would need one big bicycle pump to keep moving.

wind turbine- Not possible for vehicle. Not reliable for grid generation, and some bunny-hugger will protest because some damn bird is too stupid to not fly into the blades.

The only really feasible power sources at this time are nuclear-generated rechargeables, and a very promising tidal & wave generation system now being tested in the North Sea. (Really cool, uses wave action to generate hydraulic pressure), Geothermal in some areas, and all the Hydroelectric we can build (until some tree-kissing fool starts whining about a dam across a river.)

Wow... look at that wall of text! that is big enough to stop invading mongol hordes! (but they are on horses, so they are immune from the relevance of this whole discussion)

I gotta get to work, if I don't get a bit of this done it's going to drastically cut into my hookah time tonight, and that is a really bad thing.






.

[TheScotsman]

The housing market is already crashing because of borderline HORRIBLE debt. People cant afford the houses they live in because they were granted loans they cant afford.

You mean they bought a house that was at the very limit/beyond what they could afford, and blindly signed a contract that clearly stated that the intrest is variable. All the while every analyst there was said it was going to go up. Then to compound the problem, every chance they got they milked the property for every penny of equity they had, and spent it foolishly on more stuff they couldn't afford.

I have little sympathy for them. It's not illegal to sign a contract, no matter how one-sided, or stupid it is. It was their choice to have the 6,500 sq-ft McMansion, and 2 new SUV's when all they needed was a 1,500 sq-ft rancher and 2 5 year old minivans. I greatly detest the concept of my tax money going to save people that are too stupid to understand simple economics, or control their own consumerisim.

[TheScotsman]

Well, many a scientist has claimed there is no shortage of oil. The US has done a fine job of pissing off every country that controls oil, therefore prices are inflated. If the damn corn crap would stop occurring as well prices would drop. Honestly, milk in my area is up to $4.50 a gal for 2% because corn has increased in price. Why, because people like Gore feel it should be used for gas. So the farmers raise the price of it, now dairy farmers have to increase their price on milk to cover the corn feed increase. So what happens in the end. The overseeing people screw over everyone else that lives in the country.

Then you look at Europe. They laugh at us for complaining about paying $3 for a gallon. They have been paying $9-$10 for a gallon now for a long time. If you look at the trend, whatever we pay for a gallon, they pretty much pay for 1 liter.


Funny, people complain that they lose income because of increased gas prices. But yet they are all for increasing their taxes to cover socialized medicine.

I have to agree almost 100%.
Allot of the dairy cost increase is a result of transportation, and general profit taking on the part of the middle-men. At the farm-level the dairy gets an average of 30 cents/dollar.

As for the ethanol making dairy prices go up, more BS dumped on the american sheeple. One of the biggest byproducts of ethanol production is a highly digestable protein source for cattle. It is pelletized and sold as a dairy feed.


Are we ready for Hillary-Care volume 2 yet?

[.ryan]

Alternate fuels, and why these are not feasible.

1-Steam
Where are you planning on getting this steam? it takes fuel to heat the water, and the only portable fuels efficient enough are liquids. We are right back where we started, only this time we are using a much less thermally efficient engine (2% on triple expansion EC vs 7-12% on reciprocating piston IC. So, unless you are planning a visit from the "steam faerie" this is useless.
2-Solar
Ya, great idea, too bad the output is so low it's not good for much more than holding a battery charged. I live where is is common to have weeks on end with overcast sky, not to mention the winter daylight is rather short. Cell efficiency falls fast under 0deg. A million+$ battery of cells barely moved a featherweight car through a desert. Not practical at this point, not the near future.
3-
Liquid N2. Hmmm, you got a liquid N2 well? Nope? See steam problem.
4-
Hybrids... the road to efficiency is paved with hybrid morons. Study the battery, and the natural damage, fuels needed, and the toxic waste resulting from these. Both MIT, and Carnegie Mellon have done studies that show hands-down, a hybrid takes more fuel, and causes more pollution through it's life (from raw material to scrape pile) than a conventional vehicle. In MIT's case the comparison was a prius vs an H3. Besides, I live in the far north reaches of Minn, it gets cold here... and these pieces of junk won't even move most of Jan & Feb.
5-Hydrogen My personal favourite myth! (and one of the main topics of my dissertation) There are only 2 types of engine we have in commercial production that will run on hydrogen "safely" (as in without exploding) The gas turbine, or the wankel. The valve overlap in reciprocating engine creates a moment where both valves are open, at lower speeds this is significantly long enough to allow flashover. H2 burns vigorously with no visible flame, has no odor, and will suppress your ability to breath. Ya, I want a pressurized tank of that under my seat! Besides, it takes ENERGY to supply the H2. Nukes are the only non-fossil source of that energy at this time. Ready for one in your back yard?
6-Bio
I heat my house, garage and business with corn-burners. I can tell you they are efficient, and cost effective, but the cost of corn was 95$/ton last fall, and now it's 165.$ mostly as a result of Ethanol. We can't grow enough corn to replace oil for just heating, much less automotive. BioDiesel? Well, it sure makes me hungry! My bobcat is biodiesel powered, and every time I use it I want a big plate of french fries. It smells great!
7-compressed air????
Never heard that one before, but still takes energy to compress! Back to the same problem as the steam engine. I'll tell you what, you get the bicycle pump, and lets see how far that idea goes. A 250 CC engine turning 6K would displace 1.5MILLION cc's of air at 1 atmosphere... per minute!!!!!!!! That would need one big bicycle pump to keep moving.

wind turbine- Not possible for vehicle. Not reliable for grid generation, and some bunny-hugger will protest because some damn bird is too stupid to not fly into the blades.

The only really feasible power sources at this time are nuclear-generated rechargeables, and a very promising tidal & wave generation system now being tested in the North Sea. (Really cool, uses wave action to generate hydraulic pressure), Geothermal in some areas, and all the Hydroelectric we can build (until some tree-kissing fool starts whining about a dam across a river.)

Wow... look at that wall of text! that is big enough to stop invading mongol hordes! (but they are on horses, so they are immune from the relevance of this whole discussion)

I gotta get to work, if I don't get a bit of this done it's going to drastically cut into my hookah time tonight, and that is a really bad thing.

I was just citing examples, off hand, currently or previously in use. I do agree and it was stated that they are currently not feasible. Edited November 7, 2007 by .ryan

[Bulldog_916]

I think we should all buy one big dog and a pair of roller blades. Feed the dog, pick up its crap and it pulls your ass to work. All you gotta do is stand there while your blades roll beneath you. Then harness that dog outside. 100% efficient. That dog puts out 1/2 a horse power or whatever, and it all goes to pulling my ass.

[TheScotsman]

I think we should all buy one big dog and a pair of roller blades. Feed the dog, pick up its crap and it pulls your ass to work. All you gotta do is stand there while your blades roll beneath you. Then harness that dog outside. 100% efficient. That dog puts out 1/2 a horse power or whatever, and it all goes to pulling my ass.

I'm going to need a lawn chair, a six pack of some good IPA's, and a whole box of cats. This bound be entertaining, as long as you are well tied to that hound, wouldn't want it to get away now.