There's A War Brewing...

[Bulldog_916]

I dont know if this is just because the "Great American Smoke Out" is coming up....but it seems like lately the government has caught on that hookah is becoming "trendy." They seem to hate it....not only that, but they are determined to ban it. I hope for everyone who is starting a hookah bar or THINKING about starting a hookah bar, that these legal "loopholes" allowing smoking bars are not closed. But as time goes on, it looks like the whining is only going to get louder. Be careful and come up with a long term plan if these laws are enacted.

My Opinion?

Trying to legislate personal responsibility is getting old and turning America into a less free nation. Smoking may have a STATISTICAL correlation to lung cancer, but living in a smog-filled town or large city can be just as dangerous, if not more so. If I choose to put something dangerous into my body that should be my choice.

If everyone were to quit smoking today, all companies that have sprung up calling for the ban will immediately lose money. All the taxes from tobacco purchases will cease to exist. SOMEONE will end up making a stink because they no longer have a pay check. That's why taxes on tobacco are rising, because it becomes the law of diminishing returns. As more people quit smoking, less money from taxes on tobacco comes in, therefore, more taxes need to be presented to keep the funds coming.

For me, this is sick. Even people that dont agree with smoking must agree that taking away freedoms in order to protect people from themselves is never going to work.

[Geiseric]

Oh, it will work. Don't forget, this is America. Being coddled and told what to do is what we love.

[Ooph]

Oh, it will work. Don't forget, this is America. Being coddled and told what to do is what we love.

If enough people come together and support the Hookah movement NOTHING will happen.

[Sonthert]

They've gotten you, too.

I've read (and I'm no medical doctor) the Surgeon General's reports on smoking from 1964 on. I've found no data, no research, nothing that would tend to show that the same general trends found in cigarettes can be found in pipes and cigars...quite the opposite. Mortality rates, according to the 1964 and 1967 reports, for pipe smokers is the same as for non-smokers. Where as cigarette smokers had from 40%-120% increase in mortality rate in the same reports. The anti-smoking people have been trying to paint pipes (and to a lesser extend cigars) with the same black paint brush that cigarettes are painted (deservedly so) with..saying smoking cigarettes is bad for you...which is true. Then they generalize and say smoking is bad for you...Smoking a hookah probably is bad for you, but there have been few studies and the ones that have been done aren't that good, in my opinion.

My theory goes its all in the amount of processing or doctoring they do to the stuff. Pipe tobacco is the least doctored, cigars (on the average) next and cigarettes are the most "Tweaked". The mortality rate increases follow a similar trend...pipe smokers none...cigarette smokers a lot...cigar smokers have an interesting statistic. If you smoke more than five cigars a day (Or is it five or more cigars a day...I forget)...your mortality rate goes up...a little. If you smoke fewer cigars than that, your mortality rate is indistinguishable from non-smokers. Who smokes more than 5 cigars a day? People who smoke those little, cigarette-like cigars with the tips, highly processed (and several brands have been reclassified as cigarettes in California for tax purposes). Who smokes one or two cigars a day...the people who smoke those bigger, natural, hand-rolled cigars...less processed.

All thats theory, of course.

[RayVer]

You made some good points there sonthert. I'm still waiting for the day a group of scientists do a non biased study on the effects of hookah smoking.

Interesting thing about the cigars. I recently got in to cigars about 2 months ago and at one point I was smoking 1 cigar a day and tried to hold myself back from it after a week and a half. I'm not saying that I'm going to jump back into a cigar a day routine but I do like to smoke occasionally a cigar here and there. It's nice to know "its not so bad" because I really enjoy them when I smoke and having that in the back of your head ruins your session.

[GiantSquid]

I don't think that second hand hookah smoke could ever possibly be a problem. And wouldn't smoking hookah be the most inconvenient addiction ever anyway?

[RayVer]

point. your right about that....

*Addicted hookah smoker away from home*
"oh damn i'm really urging hookah right now..."
"ahh..dammit I forgot I dont carry this thing in my side pocket!"

lol

[Bulldog_916]

They havent "gotten me too."

I believe in personal responsibility. That means if you start smoking voluntarily, never stop, and die from it, you're relatives and you are entitled to a big NOTHING. Second hand smoke is a myth, perpetrated by assholes in order to guilt trip people into quitting. "Stop blowing smoke in your baby's face or you'll kill him." Commercials like that piss me off. Who the fuck does that?

But I believe that the study that you reference is a TAD old. 1967? We went past 8 tracks, to tapes, to CDs to MP3s since then dude. We didnt know there was a possibility of breaking the genetic code back then. There no doubt have been better studies done on the effects of tobacco since then. Hookah? Probably not, all they really reference is a higher death rate from lung related diseases in the middle east than here. They dont really give a control percentage of deaths related to lung disorders to compare the percentage of hookah smokers to it.

[gaia.plateau]

*Looks around*

Mmmmmm Canada.

[Dekon]

*Looks around canada*

Ewwwwww Nakhla and Soex .

[Bulldog_916]

Last time I checked, this thread was about our freedoms to smoke at bars designed to do such things and the legislators looking to shut that down. Do you want your hobby or consumption of choice or whatever legislated into the walls of your home? I'm wondering if further restrictions will be placed on bars already in existence. Shouldnt mushrat have something to say about this? Other hookah bar owners and operators? I mean, you guys are in the cross hairs here. It may not LOOK like it's going to happen, but then again, anything is possible.

[Oggie505]

big tobbacco has so much money invested in lobbiest, that there will never be a complete ban, there will always be smoke houses whether it be for hookah, cigar, pipes..etc...

[smarthobo]

They've gotten you, too.

I've read (and I'm no medical doctor) the Surgeon General's reports on smoking from 1964 on. I've found no data, no research, nothing that would tend to show that the same general trends found in cigarettes can be found in pipes and cigars...quite the opposite. Mortality rates, according to the 1964 and 1967 reports, for pipe smokers is the same as for non-smokers. Where as cigarette smokers had from 40%-120% increase in mortality rate in the same reports. The anti-smoking people have been trying to paint pipes (and to a lesser extend cigars) with the same black paint brush that cigarettes are painted (deservedly so) with..saying smoking cigarettes is bad for you...which is true. Then they generalize and say smoking is bad for you...Smoking a hookah probably is bad for you, but there have been few studies and the ones that have been done aren't that good, in my opinion.

My theory goes its all in the amount of processing or doctoring they do to the stuff. Pipe tobacco is the least doctored, cigars (on the average) next and cigarettes are the most "Tweaked". The mortality rate increases follow a similar trend...pipe smokers none...cigarette smokers a lot...cigar smokers have an interesting statistic. If you smoke more than five cigars a day (Or is it five or more cigars a day...I forget)...your mortality rate goes up...a little. If you smoke fewer cigars than that, your mortality rate is indistinguishable from non-smokers. Who smokes more than 5 cigars a day? People who smoke those little, cigarette-like cigars with the tips, highly processed (and several brands have been reclassified as cigarettes in California for tax purposes). Who smokes one or two cigars a day...the people who smoke those bigger, natural, hand-rolled cigars...less processed.

All thats theory, of course.

I would say the innate differences between cigarettes and pipes/cigars has nothing to do with processing or chemicals, rather in the method of smoking. Cigarettes are inhaled, into the lungs, coating one of your most vital organs with tar etc., whereas cigars and pipes are merely drawn into the mouth, only affecting the tissue in your mouth/throat area

But as far as the rest of your argument goes, I fully agree