Canada: Man Dies In Airport From Taser, Now You Want Them Banned.

[Scheetz]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311827,00.html

There is the article explaining why he was tased.

You guys never cease to amaze me. A man dies to a taser from an unknown reason and now officials are saying tasers should be banned. Whats next, going to hand over your batons as well. Maybe convicts can receive a serious verbal thrashing when they are in trouble.

[ghostofdavid]

If you think really hard about making criminals disappear, maybe they will!

[MechAnt]

Nononono!!! You have it all wrong! Fire up a hookah, get insane clouds, and when you exhale, they are gone

Either way, this is quite a debatable subject. I don't quite know enough to take a side although I still think the use of tazers is a good thing. Just look at some other countries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7096862.stm (We're a police state? My ass)

I'd rather be tased any day Edited November 16, 2007 by MechAnt

[booya]

Canada Rules! i'd rather not live a the police state that US has turned into... (i'm a victim of the patriot act)

[Geiseric]

Go watch some more CNN . It always amuses me when people who don't understand crime try talk about it like they understand it. Tasers have been called into question many times, and with reason. Whether or not they should be used in self-defense could be argued either way. Whether they have been abused, over and over, because of their accessibility and lack of consequences for misuse, is unquestionable.

BTW a little heads up. Convict= convicted felon. The majority of victims of police brutality are not felons, they are ethnic minorities that are profiled as likely to put up a resistance. You use a phrase like convict, it allows for people to associate the with all sorts of bad things they don't want, and makes the individual out to be a shady character, regardless of what the situation is. Look into labeling theory, which still has a lot of relevance and is still used in the study of crime.

The article itself is poorly written, but the subject has been under debate for many year, for reasons I would hope you are all aware of. The main counter-argument is that the alternative is deadly force. This ignores the hundreds of other non-lethal methods of subduing an individual resisting arrest. Regardless of the arguments involved, the effects of tasers on medically unstable people has been shown to be possibly deadly (look for cases yourself, I'm not going to bother linking for the lazy), and as such one would hope use would be suspended until further research has been completed. But this will not occur until the general publics' horrifically skewed view of violent crime and enforcement is remedied, and I doubt that will ever happen, at least some unforeseeable event causes the downfall of the Hollywood studio known as the free press.

*Edit*

I'm sorry if I sound condescending, its just that crime is really not that hard to understand, nor is the fear of the abuse of the police that comes with it. It is not a coincidence that criminology is a primarily sociological field. It is because crime is very easily explained sociologically. Crime occurs in the lower class because of unachievable goals (in a very simplified take of the critical view of crime). This is not a conspiracy. This is not "bad" people. This is deviance from acceptable methods for achieving wealth, and the subsequent behaviors that follow said deviance (excluding crimes of passion). These are people that need to be controlled, yes. Punished, no. I.E. a method of control that has been found be possibly harmful, should be under strict scrutiny. This is basic stuff, people. Think with your brain, not your TV. Edited November 16, 2007 by Geiseric

[manntis]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311827,00.html

There is the article explaining why he was tased.

You guys never cease to amaze me. A man dies to a taser from an unknown reason and now officials are saying tasers should be banned. Whats next, going to hand over your batons as well. Maybe convicts can receive a serious verbal thrashing when they are in trouble.

He wasn't a convict. He was a new immigrant from Poland who spoke no English, and had become lost and disoriented in the secure area of the airport with no food, water, or assistance he could understand for more than 6.5 hours.

To say they're talking about banning tasers is premature - just more talking heads getting airtime. They don't know yet if it was the taser, the RCMP officer kneeling on his neck, or other factors. "Explaining why he was tased" is also erroneous, as RCMP have said the members involved appear to have jumped the gun and violated SOPs.

What they ARE looking at is why what appears to be excessive force was used, as they originally said he attacked them but a video was released showing them jumping him, not the other way around.

In short, the investigation is just starting. So right now everything is speculation, gossip, and hand waiving.

While you're at it though you might consider the US uses tasers, firearms, has the highest rate of incarceration of any nation - and yet is still plagued by violent crime. Before you start making "you guys" statements and clucking your tongue at others, you might want to get your own house in order. Edited November 16, 2007 by manntis

[garykainz]

and you find this funny why?

[lemmiwinks]

Yeah, I think I missed the part where this is funny. Is it because you're a dick?

[Geiseric]

I'm sorry, but.. ROFL.

[gaia.plateau]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311827,00.html

There is the article explaining why he was tased.

You guys never cease to amaze me. A man dies to a taser from an unknown reason and now officials are saying tasers should be banned. Whats next, going to hand over your batons as well. Maybe convicts can receive a serious verbal thrashing when they are in trouble.

Tasers are already illegal in Canada, and have been for quite some time. Believing everything that Fox News tells you will frequently cause you to be misinformed, I'm afraid.

http://www.safety-council.org/news/media/l...egaltasers.html
http://www.americablog.com/2006/11/aclu-sa...are-guilty.html
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...me=&no_ads=

Do I agree with them being illegal?

I don't have any problem with weapons capable of lethal force being witheld from potentially insane civilians. Far better than the American zeitgeist wherein police can use them for any reason they see fit.

[TheScotsman]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311827,00.html

There is the article explaining why he was tased.

You guys never cease to amaze me. A man dies to a taser from an unknown reason and now officials are saying tasers should be banned. Whats next, going to hand over your batons as well. Maybe convicts can receive a serious verbal thrashing when they are in trouble.

I think the whole concept of a taser, or any "less lethal" weaponry is not something that belongs in the hands of the run-of-the-mill cop. They are poorly trained, and demonstrate a complete lack of good judgement in their employment of them. How many times have we seen a video of one cop talking to someone while his buddies sneak behind the suspect, and tase them. They need better rules of engagement, but more, and independent civilian review without the "incident" being spun for them by a member of the PD. As with any weapon in the hands of the jackboots, we can only wait for the day they are employed against the population in a growing indiscriminate manner.

[manntis]

I think the whole concept of a taser, or any "less lethal" weaponry is not something that belongs in the hands of the run-of-the-mill cop.

RCMP are not "run of the mill" cops. Yes, they do still err, as this incident may turn out to be. But they are highly trained and are often posted far from home - a sacrifice few run-of-the-mill cops would be willing to make.

[BrotherBuford]

Isn't the RCMP kind of like the Canadian equivalent of the US's FBI?

[booya]

Isn't the RCMP kind of like the Canadian equivalent of the US's FBI?

in a way yes, more like the fbi, atf, dea, highway patrol and marshalls all rolled into one... i think anyways...

[Johnny_D]

Yeah, I think I missed the part where this is funny. Is it because you're a dick?

Another comment like this lemmiwinks and your going on leave for a day or two.
Keep it decent and civil.

First and last warning - For anyone who wants to get personal.

JD

[TheScotsman]

I think the whole concept of a taser, or any "less lethal" weaponry is not something that belongs in the hands of the run-of-the-mill cop.

RCMP are not "run of the mill" cops. Yes, they do still err, as this incident may turn out to be. But they are highly trained and are often posted far from home - a sacrifice few run-of-the-mill cops would be willing to make.

They are still cops, and don't need any weapon that they can apply willy-nilly, with no civilian review. Any taser discharge should be handled in the exact same manner as a firearm.

And I fail to see how an airport is going to fall into a category of hardship posting.

[Dr. Atkins]

JD-- I'm pretty sure it was merited in this case.

[Johnny_D]

JD-- I'm pretty sure it was merited in this case.

Maybe I missed the comment. But calling people names is unnessary.

JD

[Scheetz]

A: Its funny because Canada is removing all forms of protection from its people and now its officers.

B: I never said the guy was a convict. I said how are you going to handle convicts when you hand over all forms of defense. Reading comprehension, do they not teach that in school anymore?

C: I am a dick because I live in a country with a shitty economy but still prides itself in allowing its citizens to protect itself? OK, if you say so. You will probably be apart of our country in the next 10 years any. Mexico included. Then we can all be 1 big unhappy pissed off family.

D: You speak of non lethal weapons. Thats what a taser is there for. Pepper spray/mace does not affect all human/animal beings. Would you rather have them beat the man with a baton? So whats left? A good verbal bashing. Please.



So, only 1 person replied with an understanding of why I posted that. And of course, he is the first person to reply.

[Geiseric]

Perhaps I was not clear enough. Conflict occurs before and during arrest. Conviction occurs after. Therefore, those who are subjected to tasers are not convicts. I'm not going to argue about crime and self defense with you, because I don't talk about crime with people who don't understand it unless they seek to understand it. You are not seeking to understand, you are seeking to ridicule a side in an issue you have no understanding of. Edited November 17, 2007 by Geiseric

[erufiku]

I wanted to write something but I deleted it just in case.

Anyway guys, the point was that if anybody makes a mistake of visiting Vancouver, you should really watch out and act extra, extra obedient if facing an officer. Don't even think about talking back, not to mention doing something. Remember, you've got one life to live.

PS: I know it's vague and seems paranoid, but just do some research about police brutality and mysterious police "accidents" that deprived many people of their lives; innocent people.

[TheScotsman]

Perhaps I was not clear enough. Conflict occurs before and during arrest. Conviction occurs after. Therefore, those who are subjected to tasers are not convicts. I'm not going to argue about crime and self defense with you, because I don't talk about crime with people who don't understand it unless they seek to understand it. You are not seeking to understand, you are seeking to ridicule a side in an issue you have no understanding of.

Very well said.

Even more, it appears this guy spoke little/poor english, and no french. He appears to have had some form of break down. Who knows, stress, jet lag, scared, airline food... a million things could has cause him to loose it. No one was harmed, it appears he posed no danger to anyone.

Besides, when is stacking a bunch of chairs, and yelling worth a death penalty? (another thing I think American is way wrong on, but that's another story). I would dare guess they could have left him there for a half hour, and the whole mess would have come to a far less drastic end. Allot of the police mentality is captured in the phrase "hit him again" after he was on the ground. Tasers are abused, over used, and not necessary in the normal course of civil life. If you shoot one at a cop they call it a deadly weapon, but when they shoot the average civilian it's not considered the same... go figure that out! If they had to resort to night sticks at least there would be some restraint in the form of civil liability, and recognized abuse. "Hit him again" after he is on the ground with a night stick would have landed Dudly Doright in his own jail, but it's perfectly fine with a far more potentially lethal weapon? Now that is some screwed up thinking.

Just another person that somehow goes into an airport, only to get killed off by the airport gestapo for seemingly minor incident. It's getting to be a frighteningly frequent occurrence. Homeland security my nut! It's just more a case of a government trying to rule by creating an external fear. (the boogie-man syndrome) Some idiot will say something to the nature of he shouldn't have been doing that... ya, sure, it was stupid, but is someone tased me (and I suspect anyone here) every time they did something moderately stupid I would need a stamp on my head that said "Sylvania-100W Soft White".

Crime, nor criminals are "fixed" by more cops, more jails, more laws, we have tried that, and it's a dismal failure. Until the actual root of the problem is corrected you are going to keep filling jails, and keep generating a class of people (the ex-cons) who have even more reasons to act in a criminal manner. It has to be the dumbest system ever invented.

Better be nice before JD gets out his ban-taser .

[dcrooksjr]

heres another take on it:
Another Meaningless Taser Death: Police Use Of Stun Guns Out Of Control
Confused? Distressed? Need Help? Get tasered

reddit_url='http://www.infowars.net/articles/november2007/151107Taser_death.htm'reddit_title='Another Meaningless Taser Death: Police Use Of Stun Guns Out Of Control'

digg_title = 'Another Meaningless Taser Death: Police Use Of Stun Guns Out Of Control';digg_bodytext = 'The latest taser incident to be captured on film again highlights how fast our society is sleepwalking into a brutal police state where it is the norm for cops to react with extreme physical force and even torture towards anyone who acts out of the ordinary in any way whatsoever.';digg_topic = 'politics';

Steve Watson
Infowars.net
Thursday, Nov 15, 2007



The latest taser incident to be captured on film again highlights how fast our society is sleepwalking into a brutal police state where it is the norm for cops to react with extreme physical force and even torture towards anyone who acts out of the ordinary in any way whatsoever.

The video, released Wednesday, shows the brutal tasering and consequent death of Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski last month at Vancouver airport.

Captured by a member of public, the footage shows the moments before police arrived and murdered Dziekanski by tasering him three or four times.

The film quite clearly reveals that Mr Dziekanski is suffering some sort of anxiety attack in the airport as he is breathing very heavily, sweating profusely and appears to be attempting to barricade himself in an empty area separated by a glass cordon. Clearly the barricade he fashions is not going to stop anyone getting through and appears to be more a cry for help.

Dziekanski at first seems to respond to passers by who attempt to calm him down but he clearly cannot understand what they are saying and becomes more distressed. After throwing a wooden table at the glass cordon and knocking a computer to the floor, the police arrive and within seconds taser Dziekanski sending him flailing to the ground screaming in agony.

The police then surround him and as the officers yell at Dziekanski to stop moving, which is impossible when 50,000 volts of electricity are moving through your body, a voice can be heard yelling "hit him again, hit him again." The four large officers then jump on top of him, restraining his arms and sitting on his head. One officer appears to strike Dziekanski in the head with a baton.

Eventually Dziekanski stops moving and dies.

Is this in any way justifiable whatsoever?

The video also contradicts the officers' report which states that the man they encountered was out of control. Police also said even after he was tasered once, he remained combative. But the video shows that after the first shot, Dziekanski fell to the ground and was writhing in agony.

An investigation is ongoing and the official cause of death has not been made public.

The fact that police immediately reach for tasers now in any delicate situation, even a non threatening one, speaks volumes about the society we now live in.

In another disgusting case reported today a man who slipped into a diabetic coma on the top deck of a bus in Leeds, England has described how he was used for electric stun gun "target practice" after he "failed to respond to instructions" and police "mistook him for a suicide bomber".

[kornkitten42]

First off to whoever said " oh an officer talks to a person and then his buddy sneaks around and tasers him"? That is ridiculus. Yes there are a "few bad apples" out there but officers, even in the US are specially trained to handle a taser. They have to take classes and such to even have a taser. Now i'm sure i'm going ot get a lot of "5-0, piggie bashers", yadda yadda.

My officers would never dare discharge their tasers unless it is needed. for one, I have personally seen how much paper work they have to fill out and it is an assload.2 They hate filling out that paper work 3. They are humane, decent respectful cops. 4 They have to replace their taser darts everytime a taser is fired, if they do frivioulus shootings like you have said, it costs the department LOTS of money for each individual police grade taser barb attachment and they can't get another one until the fill out the supplement report stating why it was used.

Scheetz- I found the humor in what you were saying. Canada still has gun fatalities, yet it's public can't defend it's self, not they want to take tasers.

I don't think just everyone should be able to get a taser though. Too many people think it's a toy right now. They don't take a taser seriously like they would a gun and like to discharge it on their friends or when it's not really needed. I think above a certain watt/ volts per second, the should have a certian license on who can carry them. That or like a gun, have to take a course in order to carry it.

Side note********

I understand the disliking of one or two police officers due to possible dick things they do, but If you disrespect them as a whole entity, then I hope when you truly need them, they take their sweet ass time getting to your house. Edited November 17, 2007 by kornkitten42

[manntis]

And I fail to see how an airport is going to fall into a category of hardship posting.

Because the RCMP members posted there might be from Montreal, or Winnipeg, etc. And while being posted to Vancouver International would be pretty cushy, it's still far from home. A year later when they're rotated to some small town, like Kimmirut on Baffin Island (in the arctic, for those without maps) it's a different story.

Point being, those who join the RCMP aren't typically the ones who want to sit around in doughnut shops until it's time to pull over the people who picked on them in high school. City police have good cops too, but the schmuckhead factor seems to be higher than the RCMP who, like the military, go where they're posted - wherever that may be.