A Promise To All Americans.

[gaia.plateau]

Do you really consider this to be a bad thing?

In Latin America, the popular theory of "Economic growth = Economic prosperity", which is tenuous in the small handful of best-case scenarios, has historically proven to be catastrophic in nearly every case, the lone exceptions being Chile and Costa Rica. Columbia, which you cite as being an example of economic success, has serious socioecomic problems like the total lack of education and healthcare in many regions. Look at Bolivia, or Nicaragua, or Haiti, where governments have been forced to accept structural adjustment programmes because of coercion by IMIs and Western corporations, where majorities of their populations live on 20 cents a day or less. Columbia as an example is politically controlled more by foreign investors and corporations like Dynecorp and Exxon, whose paramilitary forces dwarf national armies, than by the elected government. Even Brazil, the most economically prosperous country in Latin America, suffers the greatest gap between rich and poor in the world.

It is indeed a bad thing, the less invertions this country gets, the less his economic will growth, and also the reason they are leaving is cuz theres not ''seguridad juridica'' dont know the translation but its like law security (its when you know they wont be changing arbitrary the rules of the game)

You cant compare Bolivia, Nicaragua or Haiti with Venezuela in any aspect, those are very poor countries with a very bad luck geographicly and naturaly wise (they got nothing, Bolivia dont even have seas).

As I said... economic growth is historically a detrimental thing in Latin America when implemented as a sole objective, as it has been in nearly every case.

In what way is Venezuela lacking in judicial security? Unless you mean the internationally illegal policies of Latin American governments to allow foreign corporations to exercise coercion and political control, even via death squads, which are exchanged for briefcases full of currency.

You can compare us with Brazil, Columbia or Argentina, which btw, they are open to big companies inversion, as a matter of fact, after Brazil, Venezuela was their target for establishing in Latin America... not anymore

What about Guatemala, then? Chock full of foreign investment, yet the 2nd biggest income gap in the world, 80% of the population under the poverty line, 50% of the population under the extreme poverty line, and 10% living on a dime a day. Brazil, Venezuela, and Haiti are all classified as Less Developed Countries (LDCs), The Global South, The Developing World, or by laymen as Third World Countries. So I don't believe they're dramatically incomparable, in society and political structure if not in economic ranking.

At any rate, your distinction between comparisons doesn't change the fact that nearly all the evidence indicates corporate inversion as detrimental, and often catastrophically so, in the socioeconomic and political affairs of the Global South, especially in Latin America.

I come from a medium economic class

What do you make a year, if you don't mind my asking? After you've replied I'll do a quick search on current income rates in Venezuela. If you're a lawyer, paid by business firms, I'd wager a phunnel bowl full of Blueberry Tangiers that you're in the top 10%, if not the top 1%.

you for example dont understand what means less money for the ppl, it means that all the prices will get higher, since you got no option to get $ from the official maarket, instead you need to buy them from a black market cuz honestly 400$ is not a crap, even the low economic class was being beneficed from having 3000$ to spend, most of the sold their right to get em and they got money from it, not anymore.

And you don't seem to understand that the vast majority of your population which does not have the funds to spend $400 or $3,000 at the black market is struggling to afford a bag of corn, or even electricity for their families. With more corporate inversion, privatization, and derregulation, you can be sure that drinkable water will be added to that list.

The Latin American reality is that as the rich get richer, their control over the poor gets greater, and the fabled trickle down-effect verily becomes a lock-down effect, characterized by the impoverished losing access to education, to healthcare, to the rightly-held land, and even to water, which is classified by the UN as a human right.

And dont believe that venezuela has 85% of extreme poverty, it-s not true, it-s more like 60% which is still a lot i know...

I've always heard the 60% figure.

That's all I have time to respond to for now, except for your last sentence.

And about hegemony, man, dont know if you know this, but when he won to be president, he got all his friends from the strike he did on 1992 into the governament, he also put his father as gobernor in one state, he has several friends and family in several gubernamental dependencies.

Do you know what hegemony means? Moreover... can you name 5 non-Western countries where this sort of practice doesn't happen? I'm an International Studies major, and I can't.

[cassinho]

Quick answers from a quick reading, dont have much time right now.

Venezuela lacks judicial security cuz you'll never know when they want to expropiate your stuff, intervene your bussiness, or control the prices of your economic practice (there's a lot more regulation in Venezuela than you think), implementing stupid and confiscating taxes against big companies, president has never been enforced to follow all the legal processes to do stuffs like that, and when people goes to the judge to enforce him, the judges just says that it is totally legal what his doung (he concentrates all the powers in the countries)

Can't talk about those numbers, Venezuela has alway been supported by a lot of international invertions, like P&G, Toyota, Telefonica, International oil companies. Venezuela's economy will just sink if we get no international invertions, actually, in Venezuela most of the invertions comes from public sector (read it as gubernamental) believe it or not, Private invertions has been decreasing in an amazing rate. Gov atm needs to import even the sugar/milk/chiken/meat that the country needs.

Im an unemployee lawyer, i dont even have an income, son of a independent lawyer that doesn't even have a monthly income, he depends on his clients to get in troubles so he can make some money, some days are rough, some other days are sweet. My mom has not a degree, she doesnt work at all.
In the near future (a couple week, 3 at max) im getting a job as initiate in a law firm which probably will pay me no more than 500$ a month if im lucky. In other words, even with my humble job i wont beable to live alone, renting a place goes for more than 500$.

What im trying to tell you is that the economy in Venezuela ATM is so distortioned, lemme give you an example. Imagine a Exchange Control atmosphere where the Black (and probably the most real) US$ goes for 3x times the Official US$, People who sells imported stuff (read above, Venezuela is importing EVERYTHING, even the food) spend completly their US$ qouta faster than a year, once they go out of Official US$ (which are extremly cheap) they go to Black Market. The problem is that even with Official US$, they will sell like if they were investing Black US$, also add the natural profit from a bussiness.
So not only the people who has access and actually the economic power to spend 300$ or 3000$, or go outside the country and spend 5000$ are affected by this, everybody is since the prices of the stuffs will go out together with the lack of acces to the US$.
I know you're thinking that ppl in comerce and students get their own special quota, they do, but the process sometimes takes more than 6 months, by the time you get your right to get US$, you already spent 6 months in the Black Market losing most of your money.

Your point of view about Chavez and his anti-yankee speech will change if you ever get the chance to be in Venezuela and see the politic propaganda all around the cities of here, the 'public TV channel' and his TV program, and believe me, you're right now as a matter of fact, discussing with a Venezuelan that many people believe that is Chavist (but im not really chavist, i just try to be objetive).

[HarryTheHookaMaster]

I just want to comment on the Draft thing....Yes, they can and will do it again. When I was young, I had to register with Selective Service (or no student loans) now, all they have to do is boot up a data base, punch in the paramiters (age, etc) and have an "eligible" list. If they bring it back, you will have no choice....Remember your Social Security card in your pocket? Ask your parents or Grand parents to see theirs, it will say "for tax purposes only-not to be used for ID". The new cards don't say this....think about how many times you are asked for your number...its your National ID number now!

After being in a war zone for a year, I can tell you they the US Military is short-handed. Just look at the units that have been deployed several times. In past wars, it was soldiers cleaning out the shitters, driving the trucks, fighting the fires, cooking the food...now its civilians....

America needs to keep our noses out of other peoples business.....Iraq was a joke of a "war"...it was Bush being an asshole and throwing his weight around....

Harry

[ams]

WE are in a war based fiction, and greed. At cost of billions of dollars and so many lives american and non american...ALL so that Bush and Cheney corporation could make tons of money. I hope the next president pulls us out asap.

As for Iran, there was a world report stating and confirming that they are not trying to build nuclear weapons...so what the guy has some strong opinions, who doesnt, we have no need to go to war with them, nor can afford to...since we are spread out so thin.

I say we pull out...and worry about our country..and how it has detoriated so much...LOOK the EURO is kicking the day lights out of the dollar, unemployment is so high, so many business and factories have left to go over seas...we just keep losing by the day. Not to mention all the americans that have been killed and families torn apart.

All i know is this... WE SPENDS HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON OUR MILITARY, IT WOULD COST ONLY 40 MILLION DOLLARS TO GIVE EVERYPERSON IN THIS WORLD 3 SOLID MEALS A DAY...if everyone had that...i am sure there would be alot less of fighting going on.

[gaia.plateau]

WE are in a war based fiction, and greed. At cost of billions of dollars and so many lives american and non american...ALL so that Bush and Cheney corporation could make tons of money. I hope the next president pulls us out asap.

To put it as cordially as text allows... this is a very naive perception. What do you think Vietnam was about? Haiti 1994? Somalia 1992? Nicaragua 1980-1990, Iran & Iraq 1980-1989, Panama 1989? War for profit is not a new Western trend. Iran 1949, Guatemala 1954, Cuba 1960-63. American and British policy on the Spanish Civil War 1935. Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I could go on with these wars and military actions for profit for a while.

Have 100 minutes? A very informing documentary.

The Bush Doctrine is basically just the Truman and Reagan Doctrines mushed together, minus secrecy, with a bit of paprika on top. All the forces now in power (largely corporate) have been in power for the last century or more, the only difference in having George W. Bush for a president is that those forces are now completely unmitigated, and far more overt than they have been. The best leader you've ever had for keeping them under wraps and at bay, was Ike Eisenhower.

I say we pull out...and worry about our country..and how it has detoriated so much...LOOK the EURO is kicking the day lights out of the dollar, unemployment is so high, so many business and factories have left to go over seas...we just keep losing by the day. Not to mention all the americans that have been killed and families torn apart.

If you pull out of Iraq now, (or probably any time in the next forty years), it will turn into a bloodbath. In 2003 Iraq was actually doing quite well, socially and economically if not politically, and was not referred to as a "Right to Protect situation", which it now is. The strong international consensus is that between one and ten million Iraqis will die if the US presence is removed. Think your global reputation is bad now? If you pull out you'll find out what the word pariah really means.

[HookahDude831]

america has nuclear weapons, why would you want to fight someone who is stuck in the middle ages? make their homeland into a fucking lake and call it a day.

[HarryTheHookaMaster]

america has nuclear weapons, why would you want to fight someone who is stuck in the middle ages? make their homeland into a fucking lake and call it a day.

Amen!

I have alway said that if Bush had any REAL balls, on the day he found out Al Quida was behind Sept 11th,he would have sent ONE nuke sub within range of Afganistan, gone on national TV and spoke the truth.....tell the world that "this how we will deal with terrorists" and pushed the button! Then, again IF he had REAL balls, he would have said to the world- "if you want this to go any father and make this a world war-then bring it on..."

I think this thing would have ended-right then and there....without a world war.

When I was in Iraq, the joke was- "lets just pull out of here and nuke this shithole back into the stone age...oh wait, it IS in the stone age!"

Just a thought...

Harry

[gaia.plateau]

I have alway said that if Bush had any REAL balls, on the day he found out Al Quida was behind Sept 11th,he would have sent ONE nuke sub within range of Afganistan, gone on national TV and spoke the truth.....tell the world that "this how we will deal with terrorists" and pushed the button!

As a fourth year student in International Co-operation and Conflict, being an adept student of history, and having read hundreds of academic articles on the nature of conflict... I think I can say this with some weight.

Preliminarily, Bush doesn't have that authority, and there's no way that the US would ever launch a nuke. If, hypothetically, they did, the US would have to nuke the entire world, while itself being bombed by the other nuclear powers, or surrender the entirety of its military power. So you'd end up with the world becoming a nuclear wasteland, or a neutered America.

Think back to high school. It's one thing for a bully to take other kids' lunch money, that sort of thing generally goes on without punishment... but if that bully went around cutting their throats, it's safe to say that the parents would intervene. Edited January 13, 2008 by gaia.plateau

[SmokingDjinn]

MAD. Mutual Assured Destruction. This thread is still going?

[antouwan]

i read on here earlier someone talking about how the media isn't liberal and all of that, liberal, conservative - to me it's irrelevent, the media is serving for some kind of messed up athiestic relativist society - it's prevalent in the West, i.e. western Europe and the US and canada especially. i have no problem and support socialized healthcare, assistance to the poor etc. I'm no O'reilly fan, but (i'm not saying you are, just the media and most modern culture) calling me a close-minded conservative for being against the abortion of murder and gay marriage and other things and saying that okaying homosexual 'marriage' abortion euthanasia and so on is "getting with the program" and the swweping reform of the advancement of society is bullshit

- straight up the media is whack so i stay away from it

[gaia.plateau]

the media is serving for some kind of messed up athiestic relativist society - it's prevalent in the West, i.e. western Europe and the US and canada especially.

Is this a bad thing? I mean, I disagree with you that there is absolutely anything atheistic about Western media or the intentions of its proliferators and propagators... Aetheism is the firm believe that there is no god; Western media just doesn't care. As a decently advanced society, and with respect to your faith and freedom to practice it, it's a good thing that we're moving toward greater use of reasoning instead of superstition.

calling me a close-minded conservative for being against the abortion of murder and gay marriage and other things and saying that okaying homosexual 'marriage' abortion euthanasia and so on is "getting with the program" and the swweping reform of the advancement of society is bullshit

I wouldn't call you closed-minded, I would call you decided, not that there is a tremendous difference... But do you disagree or deny that you've allowed the external factors in your human development, which we can for the sake of argument refer to as your "faith", determine your perceptions, opinions and worldviews? My god is objectivity, and I believe that with faith and devotion to it we can make this a much better world; please endulge me as we pray to him.

You're a Christian, one imagines. The overriding and overwhelming message of the New Testament, is unconditional love for everyone; your friends, your enemies, and yourself. It's only in the Old Testament that there are any references to homosexuality being a sin, and the Old Testament also proclaims that it's advisable to stone women and beat slaves. It isn't your book, the Torah is the book of the Jews. In my opinion, the widespred misinterpretation among Western Christians that God hates gays is akin to a hypothetical revolution of Hindus and Buddhists dictating to Christians what the gospels are really about. Further, there's now undeniable proof that one's sexuality is determined at birth, and so you've no legs to stand on in the argument that your god didn't intentionally create them.

Using objectivity about your own faith, you should be able to draw the conclusion that if your faith is primarily about love and understanding, instead of hatred and fear which these days unfortunately seem to be the message coming especially out of the Evangelicals, then homosexuals should be just as entitled to marriage as heterosexuals. Objective perception of an issue, like this, is what the media is meant for and where, optimistically, it is progressing to.

I can see where you're coming from on the issues of Abortion and Euthanasia, and the argument that our lives don't belong to us is one that I can understand... but in a free and democractic country those practices are just par for the course, I'm afraid. Edited January 14, 2008 by gaia.plateau

[smokehooka]

If a candidate gets elected for the presidency and they are for War on Iran, and there is a draft, i will personally go to every single person's house who i can discover voted for that person and execute them.



My pomise. I am not going to fight your petty little battles in the sand. I would rather fight you.

screw executing them, break their legs and then somehow get them shipped off.

[The Devils Playground]

I am pretty sure its called the WHITE HOUSE for a reason. They dod not paint the place Brown.

That was meant as a funny statement before anyone calls me a racist.

I just think Hillary has a better shot. After all we are getting 2 presidents for the price of 1.

Now theres a goverment Bargain if I have ever seen one.