Politician's Religion Matter?

[TheScotsman]

With the non-stop barrage of politics infesting out lives these days, and the nero-news trying to make something of Romney's membership in the LDS church, does it really matter what a politician believes?

I have to admit, the LDS church scares me. I have a good friend that calls himself a "recovering Mormon". Some of the basic tenants of the church are bizarre, and allot of the little publicized portions are downright frightening. As religion forms one of the basic foundations of a persons morality, I can't help but believe that a politician's decisions will be influenced by religious beliefs.

[ZenSilk]

i live in the Premier LDS state, where they all come from. Trust me, we don't want one as President. We need to stick with someone Christian or hopefully we can find a Buddhist or Atheist one.

[Cheese//]

Religion is one of the greatest tools that a politician can use.
If a politician is a Christian then they've already got a massive amount of votes in the bag.

[Scheetz]

To me no it doesnt.

However, if they are some self righteous moron who totes Religion as the answer to everything. Well I dont vote for them.


Separation of Church and State. Thats what they like to call it. But it seems the proper wording is, Conjoining of Church and State.

[Bulldog_916]

Most republicans and even some democrats are all for the conjoining of church and state.

IMO beliefs cloud politicians' judgment. The stem cell issue, sexually transmitted disease issue, birth control issue, and abortion issue all show that. Society would be better off if all 4 of those things were handled properly. But religion wont even allow them to be discussed in the proper way. Bring on an atheist, then we might actually make some progress.

[james]

My wife is LDS/was raised LDS. I don't have a problem with them. Some of the more obscure things in their religion aren't any more outlandish to me that those in other churches.

And I could care less what the religion of a politician is until he or she starts sprinkling it on to my government.

[dude3516]

A politicians religion should only matter, if he is catering his platform to a religious base. Obviously we wouldn't want to elect someone who would institute Shi'a law, Hamurabi's code, or replace our constitution with the Bible. On the otherhand it's nearly impossible to rid yourself of your religious trappings when in that position, instead we should try to look for someone who is simply interested in doing good by the peoples, instead of doing good by his congregation.

[Elky]

I second this view.
As an athiest (and a polite one at that), who went to a catholic school I can vouch for some religious people. I have known a lot of people who are very devoted to their faith, but would not do a thing to force someone else to accept their views. On the other end of the scale are the people who ruin the reputation for religion. There are the people who, concious of it or not, attempt to sway even those unwilling to always be like them. Unfortunatly its those types that stick out the most.

In summery, I think that a politicions religion should only be considered if they seem like the type to make people bend to their will.

I really think that Moses droped the last tablet that had the most important rule inscribed: "Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself."

[btuner]

Coming from a strong christian, people should never force religion on people. I feel that presenting the facts and letting the people decide for them self presents a stronger case. My favorite line is from a christian band called akissforjersey "it's people like you that turn kids away from god" referring to people that try and force religion on kids

[TheScotsman]

To me no it doesnt.

However, if they are some self righteous moron who totes Religion as the answer to everything. Well I dont vote for them.


Separation of Church and State. Thats what they like to call it. But it seems the proper wording is, Conjoining of Church and State.

Separation of church and state is not the issue, it's separation of church and man... A much tougher concept to make work. It's easy to see improper church involvement in the daily happenings of Govt, but far harder to see a persons beliefs interfering in making the proper decision for the state.

[oolatec]

If they make it an issue when campaigning... then yes. Given that, it's not so much the religion, but how the candidate follows it.

[ahwahoo2006]

There is nothing inherently wrong with religion in and of itself, but it becomes dangerous when combined with politics. Faith should be a private matter. For anyone interested in how religion has been shaping the county over the last decade or so, pick up the book American Theocracy (I cant think of the author off the top of my head).

[joseph*]

I don't care about a politicians religion unless they try to force it on the population (like Bush). I will quote on of Americas greatest presidents, JKF.

" I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish--where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source--where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials--and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all. "

[oolatec]

There is nothing inherently wrong with religion in and of itself, but it becomes dangerous when combined with politics. Faith should be a private matter. For anyone interested in how religion has been shaping the county over the last decade or so, pick up the book American Theocracy (I cant think of the author off the top of my head).

Or you could just look at Iran and Saudi Arabia as perfect examples of what can happen when religion is allowe to rule every aspect of life.

We have a long, long ways to go however.

[anathema]

I always thought that one thing religion did right was teach morals. So whatever religion someone chose to follow, influences them on how they will rule their country.

edit: it's mostly of concern with picking a supreme judge or w/e it's called (civics suck), it's not like people can be fully unbiased, if they're biased, you'd want them to be biased towards your sect. Edited December 6, 2007 by anathema

[ZenSilk]

Ok, so you wouldn't care if you had a guy running the country that thought he was the man leading us out of The Armageddon that is/will start(ing) in the Middle East? Or that doesn't believe in evolution? Believes dinosaur bones are there as a trick from the Devil? Is a rich, wealthy white male overly concerend with his faith? Who doesn't trust biology?

Then you are truly naive. I would MUCH rather have a Jack-Mormon running the country in a heartbeat.

[TheScotsman]

Ok, so you wouldn't care if you had a guy running the country that thought he was the man leading us out of The Armageddon that is/will start(ing) in the Middle East? Or that doesn't believe in evolution? Believes dinosaur bones are there as a trick from the Devil? Is a rich, wealthy white male overly concerend with his faith? Who doesn't trust biology?

Then you are truly naive. I would MUCH rather have a Jack-Mormon running the country in a heartbeat.

How about someone that has already taken an oath that he believes is above all else, swearing allegiance to the president "prophet" of the cult... then tries to tell us he won't hold to that oath. Just what oaths can this guy take, and actually mean?

These people think they are going to go to heaven "in the flesh", become gods, and rule their own planets. It's

wonderful to have goals, but that a a bit lofty!

Oh, and by the way, either your wife is not a believer in her own faith, or she doesn't want you around forever. The cult will not temple seal a non-mormon man to any mormon woman.


As far as I am concerned, anyone can festoon themselves in whatever robes of stupidity they feel the need to, but when they are going to lead the country then their background becomes important. After all, if someone comes from a background that believes all Blacks are cursed by the original sin of Cain... do we really want him picking justices? or dealing with foreign policy? Wonder if he would appoint a Native American to be the Amb to Israel?


After all that, go try to order a glass of wine, or get a 12 pack in SLC... it's a PITA!

[ZenSilk]

Dude.... You're awesome. No one knows what they are like until you come to Salt Lake City. I htink we need to stick with a good 'ol Chatholic president, or elect the Dalai Lama. I'm for the latter mostly.

Actually, i'm writing that on my ballot. Fuck Hillary, fuck Obama!

The Dalai Lama will rule my country bitches!

[james]

These people think they are going to go to heaven "in the flesh", become gods, and rule their own planets. It's
wonderful to have goals, but that a a bit lofty!

That's both lofty and debated. Condemning all LDS to that line of thinking is about as logical as condemning all Christians to the literal interpretations of Revelations.

Oh, and by the way, either your wife is not a believer in her own faith, or she doesn't want you around forever. The cult will not temple seal a non-mormon man to any mormon woman.

You say that like I should be surprised. She's inactive, and we obviously aren't sealed in the temple. She understands that being sealed in the temple is a logical fallacy. I was pointing out that I obviously know quite a bit about the church, since half of my family is LDS.

After all that, go try to order a glass of wine, or get a 12 pack in SLC... it's a PITA!

It's also a bitch if not impossible in many Texas counties... thanks to other Christian denominations, not just Mormons.

Bottomline, I don't agree with most of the LDS chruch. A lot of it seems silly to me. That's why I'm not a member. Ditto for most other religions. But assuming that everyone in the church believes in and adheres to every line of Book of Mormon (and Bible) is just a ignorant as assuming that other Christians believe every line of the Bible. I dare you to find me a large amount of Christians who adhere to everything in Leviticus. It's a religion like any other. Times change, practices and beliefs change to fit society.

It's not a cult, either. Mainstream LDS isn't outside of conventional society, nor do they worship the prophet. Or Joseph Smith. Just God and Jesus, like every other Christian church. And if anyone is interested, the argument that the LDS church isn't a Christian entity stems mainly from the fact that Mormons don't accept the Trinity. That is, the God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are separate entities, rather than being different manifestations of God. This fascinates me, since your average Christian would be shocked to learn that God and Jesus are not separate beings.

The easiest way to determine how scary the LDS church is isn't to debate it online. Go to one of their services on Sunday and talk to people. All wards welcome visitors, and you might learn something.


I'm voting for Obama or Gravel, btw. Mitt Romney is douchebag.

[ZenSilk]

AMEN!

[TheScotsman]

The easiest way to determine how scary the LDS church is isn't to debate it online. Go to one of their services on Sunday and talk to people. All wards welcome visitors, and you might learn something.


I'm voting for Obama or Gravel, btw. Mitt Romney is douchebag.

I tried that, it was frightening. Every person that approached me was so obviously trying to recruit it was pathetic. I enjoyed their attempts to tell my how "true" the LDS members were, and even more how closely they were following original Jewish law. (which they obviously weren't) Anyone that bases anything in a trinity does not understand the old test at all, that was a simplification made to help serfs in the dark ages comprehend the mysteries of faith. It makes a great St. Patties story too.

The dif between a dry county in Tx and SLC is that when I order in Tx, I get an apologetic no, in SLC one gets the treatment like you just asked if they wanted to watch you screw their pooch. Less than a year ago, after ordering wine the server refused to wait our table anymore. Which was fine with me, she was hideous, but she could have been a little less insulting. I guess it was going to pollute her high and mighty morality to see us heathens. Nothing is more distasteful than someone that wears their beliefs on their sleeves.

The LDS condemn "evils" of porno, and alcohol, yet sure do take the tithe $ from big members that are involved in those industries. That is hypocrisy, and points more toward cult, than church. When is the last time you saw a practicing Muslim sausage maker? Ever see any Hindu beef packers? Catholic abortion Dr's?

I see LDS members swilling pepsi like the last truckload just got to town, and guzzling enough hot cocoa to make santa's elves nauseous, yet say the caffeine in my coffee is sending me to hell. That is simply stupid, no one with a brain could follow that logic.

Most religions crumble in the face of critical examination, becoming, what they truly are, a faith and nothing more. Cults fall the same, but do so in a flurry of double-speak, strange ways to interpret simple words, do as I say-not as I do. Religions defend their point with faith and demonstrate free will, cults rely on some all-seeing prophet that expects blind acceptance of his word.

I wasn't intending to insult your woman, sorry if it sounded that way. (I have the uncanny ability to piss absolutely everyone, everywhere off without trying, it is THE defining Scottish trait)

[ZenSilk]

I have been to 4 services total in my lifetime. The second one, about 7 years ago, i was called up to read from their stupid book. In front of the whole congregation, the dude tells ME to come up. I walked up, told him i wasn't mormon. he told me to sit down. After the thing, right before fucking sunday school, he goes up to my aunt and tells her how disrespectful i am and how i need to be raised the LDS way in order for me to become a better person. Not kidding.

They are jerks man. Up-tight prissy jerks. Who wear garments. And wear creepy colored collared shirts and sag their pants a tiny bit just so you can see their embarrasing man-panties. They still relentlessly stalk me in my own home. There's no stopping them. And to let one be President... that is a big mistake. I am telling you. Our country is just fine with stupid Catholics and Christians.

P.S. You can pick out Mormons by their Suburbans, and if they don't have Suburbans, they have a Bush/Cheney '04 sticker on their bumpers. They helped that thing become President.

[oolatec]

I have been to 4 services total in my lifetime. The second one, about 7 years ago, i was called up to read from their stupid book. In front of the whole congregation, the dude tells ME to come up. I walked up, told him i wasn't mormon. he told me to sit down. After the thing, right before fucking sunday school, he goes up to my aunt and tells her how disrespectful i am and how i need to be raised the LDS way in order for me to become a better person. Not kidding.

They are jerks man. Up-tight prissy jerks. Who wear garments. And wear creepy colored collared shirts and sag their pants a tiny bit just so you can see their embarrasing man-panties. They still relentlessly stalk me in my own home. There's no stopping them. And to let one be President... that is a big mistake. I am telling you. Our country is just fine with stupid Catholics and Christians.

P.S. You can pick out Mormons by their Suburbans, and if they don't have Suburbans, they have a Bush/Cheney '04 sticker on their bumpers. They helped that thing become President.

At least they weren't calling for your head!

[Charley]

to get back to the original question i feel that the following two words will tell you if a politicians faith should matter or not "George Bush"

see my point?

i dont want some guy banning my rights becuase his god tells him I dont deserve those rights. I fight for my rights every chance i get like right now I am waging a personal war against some religious nut jobs who do nothing but video tape ppl buying porn. I have to admit i like it but i dont buy it from a store hell i got the internet for that but I still go there and "shop" from time to time (by "shop" I meen i will actualy have the clerck fill one of there bags with newspaper when i brows just so it looks to these guys like i bought something.) i have tossed sex toys at them and even condoms filled with maonyse. all becuase they are trying to take away my right to buy something i dont even spend money on and i defently do not want someone trying to take any right i have away from me even if its one i dont use and thats what every "god nut" trys to do in one form or another. (sorry about talking about a porn store protest but i needed something to relate how the ppl of "god operate.

btw anyone know the lds stand on hookah?

also I am activly trying to get my pic on those not jobs web site and have tryed for well over 2 years. still no pic even after i urinated on the hood of one of there cars while they were "changing there cameras battery." funny the flash went off while i was zipping up guess they were out of film.

[james]

Meh, I'm sorry you've have crappy Mormon experiences. Trust me that they're not all insane fanatics. I know that they get more elitist and prickish the denser the population. The Mormons around here in the Dallas area nice, but the Mormons I run in to in the Mesa/Phoenix area just suck.

I wasn't intending to insult your woman, sorry if it sounded that way. (I have the uncanny ability to piss absolutely everyone, everywhere off without trying, it is THE defining Scottish trait)

Not a problem. I feel your pain. I'm a Sinclair, going back to Rollo and the other early dukes of Normandy.

They still relentlessly stalk me in my own home. There's no stopping them.

Tell them that you've "had the talks". There isn't anything else the missionaries can do to get you to join past that point. Or use them for something. I had Omaha missionaries help finish a basement for the cost of fast food. Did they get a conversion? Nope. But I got a nice basement.