Ok...here's The Fuck Whats Going On.

[RayVer]

honestly I CANT even do that... about 3 weeks ago I paid the 15 dollars to upgrade my membership on this forum to premium status so I can get a bigger inbox for messages (lately its been getting full very quick) however 3 weeks later and my account was never upgraded. I talked to the mods but since they don't have control over this I was left empty handed and had to contact paypal to get my money back. The admins are supposed to take care of this but they are almost nowhere to be found on this forum. Anyone thats asks me a question by PM always gets an answer and having the small allocated space with the current size makes it difficult

I've spent a lot of money setting up this whole video review thing. Now im pretty much being told I cant post a certain review due to the actions of a vendor. So what if another company comes along called XYZ and doesnt follow the rules so they get banned and have their posts removed... will I then be told dont post anything about company XYZ?? Do you see my point here??? It's not fair for us to be limited on what we can discuss in reviews (within reason of course such as discussion of illegal drugs) Edited December 11, 2007 by RayVer

[mushrat]

so will I get banned if I post my long awaited video review of the JandR Syrian I have coming in? Everyone has been asking me this for days. It's just taken a bit longer to get it here but should be here any day now.

I dont understand this. Okay so lets say hypothetically he did make some "fake" accounts and posted some stuff up so you remove all those posts, fine. I on the other hand am not him and have nothing to do with him so why wouldn't I post a review of his product like all the other video reviews I have posted?

Why not just link to your collection of reviews in say your signature and let people go to your collection and decide for themselves which video's they want to watch? Hell, just post the review of the hookah without telling where you got it, I don't give a damn, we're just not going to support Jimmy, Period.

And if you think just posting a few fake ids, um 6 or was it 7, against the basic rules why not just throw all the rules away and let the sick little fucker (and I'm beginning to get an idea of who it may have been) post his vomit porn while we are overlooking rules. Or perhaps you shouldn't have put so much effort into supporting a sleazy, lying, wait til you piss him off, kinda guy....

I think we're ALMOST done here...This isn't really open to discussion, the decision has been made, I was just answering a few people's questions about why it was done.

[Stealth]

I have to agree with rayver here. It seems pretty rediculous to not allow people to even speak of a hookah distributor. It sounds like he was being a dumbass back then with his postings. But the fact is, even if people say good things about him here now, he probably would have been doing even better if he was able to post here. So he is punished. Stopping us from talking particular hookah products and vendors at this point only really hurts us.

[anathema]

Well, the gist of this ban is so that vendor doesn't benefit from this forum and as a side effect the community doesn't either. It was the mod's decision that the former outweighs the latter.

And from what I've read, I get the impression that it was more than just breaking rules, it was "abusing" the forum. If a vendor just broke rules, I don't think it would result in a genocide of the vendor.

[mushrat]

I have to agree with rayver here. It seems pretty rediculous to not allow people to even speak of a hookah distributor. It sounds like he was being a dumbass back then with his postings. But the fact is, even if people say good things about him here now, he probably would have been doing even better if he was able to post here. So he is punished. Stopping us from talking particular hookah products and vendors at this point only really hurts us.

Please...you now all know his name, his web site, and how to get to it, go buy what you want already. NO one says you can't shop there, be my guest, buy what you want, visit as often as you want, it doesn't matter. You just can't post about it, it's as simple as that. I can't wait until the next fly by night sleezball vendor comes along and all of you will be screaming for the mods to make them quit posting stupid shit in all the threads and pm'ing you. Just like jimmy did before most of you got here. I don't care if he's te right hand man of mother Teresa, he spent quite a bit of time and effort pissing off most of the members of this forum not TOO long ago and he's not going to find support through this forum. So the next time some chinese company that can barely type in english starts posting "buy from us hookahs." in all the threads, think about this little situation before you report it as spam.

[RayVer]

Mush do you see where i'm going here? ...If I post a review of a product and dont mention the vendor what do you think is going to happen? I'll start getting pm's like I always do which won't get responded since apparently I cant upgrade my account to receive more messages. Instead of helping the community i'll look like a fool with an always full inbox because I cant address questions about the vendor through the threads themselves.

and Im not trying to continue the discussion of what happen to "unspeakable". My discussion is all about my case here with what I can and can't do with posting my reviews Edited December 11, 2007 by RayVer

[Geiseric]

Hell, just post the review of the hookah without telling where you got it, I don't give a damn, we're just not going to support Jimmy, Period.

That seems like a reasonable enough middle ground. I have to say, I agree with not allowing anything to do with abusive vendors to be posted, its like carressing the hand that slaps. If Rayver is allowed to post his work in an (albeit) modified form, I don't see the real issue.

[Stealth]

I think generally people are misunderstaning talking/reviewing as promotion. If you dont want to allow people to post discount codes or advertise sales for this person, shure, thats your call. But a review or comments about a product or service is a different matter. What happened when that one person brought up the She-cool thing. 80% of the board thought it was a gimmic, a waste of money. I personally said I thought the JandR hose was a terrible idea, and If I were a vendor I would never sell it simply because it doesnt look professional. I also was planning a review on a product and there was good and there was not so good.

[Geiseric]

Perhaps a bad rep vendor board would be in order? For those who have so far crossed the line that they are posted with a description and warning?

*Rather than board, a sticky of sorts in the vendor section. I recall getting new boards is impossible now.*

Eh, I have invested enough time commenting tonight, I'm off to bed. Edited December 11, 2007 by Geiseric

[RayVer]

exactly Stealth... my reviews are in no way to promote a vendor. actually you can ask any of the vendors I've dealt with. I've told them all very clearly my reviews will be about the product and will be honest in every way. I'm not making ties to ANY vendor i've made this very clear to them. The way Mush seems to view it is a review is "supporting through this forum". not at all! I havn't received the hookah from his company yet but what if when I get it I find it's bad? Well then it would get a bad review and i'd clearly point out in detail with my video and written review as to why.

mentioning where you can buy the product is a very important aspect of reviews. A few years ago I was part of a very succesful computer hardware review website. If I for example reviewed an Asus P3B-F motherboard and Asus happened to be the only place you can buy it then what good would I do to my viewers if in the review if I couldn't label "Asus"??? Now this is not a computer hardware site but the same principle applies. A hookah is a hookah no matter if it's good or bad everyone should know what they can about it if they so ever do decide to purchase it.

I'm not here to promote anyone. No one is paying me to do any of this but if I happen to come along a good/bad product and review it then why should I not have the right to post it? Edited December 11, 2007 by RayVer

[mushrat]

Ok, now ya all are overthinking this. The ruling on the field stands. The reasons have been given, discussion followed. The point is simple. Don't talk about Any compan yhaving to do with Jimmy. Period. easy thing. If you really want to ask someone a question, why not ask Jimmy why he behaved the way he did when he was on the forum. Ask him why he felt it was necessary to repetedly break rules, create sneaky (and soemtimes not so sneaky) accounts just to come back and cause problems. There aren't opinions, these are black and white facts that you yourself can look up. If he hadn't acted a manner that one wouldn't attribute to a "nice guy", he'd still be here like MN and Nazar and a few other smaller vendors who have actually managed to follow the Vendor rules about spamming and pm'ing people with offers. So don't bust my chops, bust his for a change.

He's apparently watching all this either through an account we don't know about or by signing in as a guest. So "hi jimmy!"

[RayVer]

everytime I post a reason as to why I think I should have the freedom to post a hookah review as I always have I get a responce about what "jimmy" did.... this is no longer about him. Am I the only one seeing this here?

okay we get the point he screwed up and hes permanently gone.....but this is not about him anymore. this is about ME..or ANYONE who wants to post a review of this vendor or from ANY other vendor for that matter.

I think it's crap a vendor screws up and then the members suffer by being told basically "okay rayver you cant post a review of his product up on this forum because he screwed up and we dont want to support him". whats all this promotion and support crap have to do with me posting a review of a freakin hookah. Edited December 11, 2007 by RayVer

[anathema]

Bad press is good press.

[mushrat]

Are some of you actually paying attention? " a bad vendor board" christ, we can't even get a locations section or a lounge review section, what makes you think we can actually get a "bad vendor" section. or a sticky..like anyone reads the stickies we've bother withed now? "sticky on review section posting" and we have to do soemthing with about 5 people a week posting questions in the review sections, what state are you in threads, don't post anything but your location, talk in other tyhreads to keep this one uncluttered, wham 5 seconds later members are posting "anyone know where a good place is? right in the middle of it, please. As a group I love you guys but c'mon gimme a break....

Rayver, just set up your videos on you tube in one place and post a link to that place in a post and your signature, people will be able to see them, your work is not in vain.

but the rest of you really should get over it already, soon enough another fly by night company will come along and undercut even them, and then that company will have y'alls attention.

[taucjan87]

What porn?

[mushrat]

Rayver, stop typing long enough to read what you are being told. Please.

It's a freaking hookah review...it's real cool, but it AIN'T the end of the world if you take out where the hookah is from, really, I mean, In the lonmg run? As long as people get to see what you did? Like you said, it's not about him, it's not about the hookah, it's about you. You want people to see your review and thats cool, but lets keep it a little bit in perspective hey?

[RayVer]

okay well since there seems to be so much conflict with mentioning this "unspeakable" vendor on this forum (and im not the person that likes to argue about conflicts) I will not include his company name on the reviews which I plan to post on the reviews section.... but I sure hope I dont get any crap going on for mentioning the vendor in the video which will be linked in the review or for any other vendor in the future.

[mushrat]

What porn?

see? thats what happens when you actually have a life and spend every waking hour working around this forum, like me.....

[RayVer]

and mush yeah it is all about the hookah but unfortunatly atleast with his syrians, it is the only place to get them and it kinda sucks doing a review of a product you can only buy from one place and then not mention what that place is....

hey if this was about a Mya Gyro and you guys told me dont mention so and so vendor i'll be fine with it because you could buy it anywhere else but this doesn't apply to this case

[RayVer]

the funny thing is that was my girlfriend on my laptop behind me she wanted to see what the hell I was typing so much for

What porn?

see? thats what happens when you actually have a life and spend every waking hour working around this forum, like me.....

[chromecarz00]

For Rayver's review thread hookah...
would it be a problem if he reffered to it as the "unspeakable" vendor? i know that sounds funny but its not. that way new people aren't tricked into going there and giving him business from a place where hes banned and the old veterans can go if they want and not go if they want. either way nobody gets business and people know where its from.
anyone?

[gaia.plateau]

Am I the only one that thinks making "you know who" a taboo to speak about will only incite and encourage interest in his company, thusly supporting it?

[chromecarz00]

Am I the only one that thinks making "you know who" a taboo to speak about will only incite and encourage interest in his company, thusly supporting it?

The veterens of the forum know who it is already, and can make their choices based on their experiences. but its the new people who will fulfill what is written above, which is why we do not mention this person/company by name.

[Zildjian]

VOLDEMORT

we do need to chill a bit. its a vendor who didnt get along here. people still like him, some dont, thats life. lets move on. enogh with this he who shall not be named of the darkness crap.

[TheScotsman]

so will I get banned if I post my long awaited video review of the JandR Syrian I have coming in? Everyone has been asking me this for days. It's just taken a bit longer to get it here but should be here any day now.

I dont understand this. Okay so lets say hypothetically he did make some "fake" accounts and posted some stuff up so you remove all those posts, fine. I on the other hand am not him and have nothing to do with him so why wouldn't I post a review of his product like all the other video reviews I have posted?

Why not just link to your collection of reviews in say your signature and let people go to your collection and decide for themselves which video's they want to watch? Hell, just post the review of the hookah without telling where you got it, I don't give a damn, we're just not going to support Jimmy, Period.

And if you think just posting a few fake ids, um 6 or was it 7, against the basic rules why not just throw all the rules away and let the sick little fucker (and I'm beginning to get an idea of who it may have been) post his vomit porn while we are overlooking rules. Or perhaps you shouldn't have put so much effort into supporting a sleazy, lying, wait til you piss him off, kinda guy....

I think we're ALMOST done here...This isn't really open to discussion, the decision has been made, I was just answering a few people's questions about why it was done.

I would have to completely agree.
No one has a right to profit from abuse of email/pm/forum. Anyone that thinks there should be any form of profit (and, face it, a review is as good as a commercial!) should keep in mind, spam is spam, no matter the venue.

A vendor would only get the can because they can't follow the simplest of rules, and, my guess is that the mods would only ban after repeated warnings. (hence all the usernames) To allow the vendor in question to have any of his products reviewed could likely steer any newcomer into thinking it was a good place to do biz. Bad idea! What the hell would make you think anyone that can't follow simple forum rules could be upstanding, and honest in biz? That makes absolutely NO sense in any way.

I would do the same, likely have done it after the second user name, or complaint about spamming PM's It would have become a quest to check the logs for any IP in his block at least once a day. Crap is crap, and just because you took a picture of it doesn't mean we need to keep it around.

Bugger the jerk.