Who The Hell Thought Of Finals Week, Anyways?

[Geiseric]

I know a lot of you out there are students, so I am sure you join me in my plight. Work, studying, high stress exams... Who the hell thought: "You know... exams are a bitch... let's organize all the professors together, and make it so the students have to take 6 HUGE exams in one week. Let's make them comprehensive, too, so they have to spend more time than normal studying. Oh, and as the final blow, I bet they will LOVE this, lets make the grade worth more than anything else, so the worst grade they are likely to get counts the most."

Was it Satan? It must have been. Christ, I hate finals. My supervisor decided it was a great time to give me more shifts, too, and all of my clients like to start snapping around this time of year, too (seasonal affective disorder hits M.I.s harder than most) so I have clients calling the cops and threatening me with scissors, and then I get to go home and study untill 3 in the morning. ARGHGHHGHHGHGHGHGH! Edited December 17, 2007 by Geiseric

[gaia.plateau]

But just think how much you're growing in character from all this adversity

Academic performances are meant to be challenging... we choose our course-loads based on how much challenge we think that we can overcome.

If you're taking six courses... and I'm guessing you're in at least your third year if your finals are more than 50% of your mark... and working as well... you're overcoming more than most people.

[Geiseric]

I'm actually only in my second year, I just take a really heavy course load, so I am about 2/3 done with both my majors. What drives me is the fact that I want to get this shit done, because I have 3 years of law school to get done after I finish up. My cool proffessors understand what we are going through, and make decent finals, but I have some real asstards who seem to derive joy from failing students. Somewhere along the line they seemed to lose grip with the reality that a degree is a means to an economic or sociological end now, rather than a elite pursuit of knowledge. The idea that college somehow weeds out the losers is completely unfounded... I can give you prime examples of coworkers in my field that excel at their job, but failed in college. Its nothing like the real world, and the challenges often become an end in themselves, rather than a method of teaching methods of coping with the cold hard reality of life in this capitalist empire. UGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGH. Not done studying, one hour left. Must... not... waste time...

[lemmiwinks]

Yeah it sucks, a few of my professors actually gave us our finals in the weeks prior so that they weren't all bunched together, which I thought was pretty cool. And I definitely hate the portion of your grade they count for; bust your ass all semester and have a bad test and you're screwed. Like I had an 11 question econ final worth 50% of my final grade... When that's 50 and the midterm is 35, there's hardly any point in going to class and doing the work for the rest of the semester. The one thing I like is when they're over. And you have a month to do nothing. Especially when your last final was yesterday. Or technically two days ago but whatever. Ah, bliss...

[lonasindi]

Most of my finals were also spread out in the weeks before finals week.

I'm a Theatre major, so you'd think my academics aren't that challenging, especially considering the fact I'm only taking 12-14 credit hours a semester, however my classes take SO much time outside of class.

It doesn't help that I designed lights for two shows this semester, and planning on two more shows next semester. Edited December 17, 2007 by lonasindi

[Hexa]

hey finals I have those! Infact Im studying for them now.
Random member: But wait if you are studying for them why are you posting on this forum
Because i have C's! Or I have C's because I post here which came first the chicken or the egg

[gaia.plateau]

Somewhere along the line they seemed to lose grip with the reality that a degree is a means to an economic or sociological end now, rather than a elite pursuit of knowledge. The idea that college somehow weeds out the losers is completely unfounded... I can give you prime examples of coworkers in my field that excel at their job, but failed in college. Its nothing like the real world, and the challenges often become an end in themselves, rather than a method of teaching methods of coping with the cold hard reality of life

I disagree with the notion that a university degree is an economic pursuit... compared with pursuing a tradeskill or jumping into the corporate world, it takes decades, indeed sometimes as long as 30 years or more for a university degree to start cancelling out all the debt and lost work time. That isn't to say that it is conversely about an elite pursuit of knowledge, necessarily.

Higher education is about cultivating our perceptions of the world by gradually wearing away at our biases and subjectivities, and gain some form of enlightenment through the gradual realization of how ignorant we are. It's about respect for knowledge and humility before it, and also about testing ourselves and our mental capacities. The fact that this pursuit is not for everyone, or rather that not everyone is inherently built for post-secondary education, does in a way render it elitist.

[lonasindi]

I disagree with the notion that a university degree is an economic pursuit... compared with pursuing a tradeskill or jumping into the corporate world, it takes decades, indeed sometimes as long as 30 years or more for a university degree to start cancelling out all the debt and lost work time. That isn't to say that it is conversely about an elite pursuit of knowledge, necessarily.

I seriously feel you there, being in an arts program I'm looking at a future of not making any significant money for a long, long time, if ever. If it was about the money, I would have stuck with electical engineering.

For me, college has been about edification in so many areas it's not even funny. Since I started this program I've changed so very much, and learned a whole lot about the arts in general.

[rockchick04]

I know the feeling! Luckily mine ended last week and now I can relax without having school to worry about.

[thecoalition]

first off....what the fuck is with this new layout where i cant see all the posts but the links to the replies? its bullshit.
second, yea finals do usually eat balls but the trick is easy. dont study. i never did and i got m bachelors with a 3.4 gpa.
grad school is a little easier though. all papers no exams. so at least i can bullshit 4 20 page papers instead of taking a bunch of tests.

[Geiseric]

PM sent , coalition.

Gaia - I challenge you to name one career I could enter today without post H.S. and hope to reach above the 100,000 a year mark. I don't want to argue economics, I am too tired, but I assure you, stratification doesn't just happen. Unless you are a functionalist, then you would believe it just happens, but it happens because it is best for society. Edited December 18, 2007 by Geiseric

[gaia.plateau]

Gaia - I challenge you to name one career I could enter today without post H.S. and hope to reach above the 100,000 a year mark. I don't want to argue economics, I am too tired, but I assure you, stratification doesn't just happen. Unless you are a functionalist, then you would believe it just happens, but it happens because it is best for society.

Welder
Electrician
Oil rigs worker
Tree planter
Weather balloon monitor
Foreign ESL teacher
Lobbyist

Want more?

[Geiseric]

And how long....? Come on... you cannot possibly be that optimistic. Ok, spend some time doing social work in poverty situations, then get back to me. BTW, most of those require post H.S. education to gain any real economic stability. just in the form of either tech school or programs along those lines. For example, take this publication by the IBR, designed to prove that college level education is not requirement for economic success:

"A common assumption among people is that a four-year degree is the only ticket to career success. In fact, only 22 percent of this nation's workers are in jobs that require a bachelor's degree and three-fourths of the U.S. adult population does not have a bachelor's degree.

The IEDC recently analyzed occupations within Indiana and found that 78 meet the following criteria:>

* Pay $20,000 or more per year

* Expect 10-year growth of 10 percent or more

* Do not require a bachelor's degree"

$20,000 a year with 10% more expected over a 10 year period? Rolling in the dough. Might as well drop out now.
I know plently of people in the occupations you mentioned... and they started out early enough that college education wasn't in big demand in their field... and the majority of them are currently in economic crisis, as the amount of work simply doesn't fit the labor surplus (a common demand of capitalism, not a side effect, it is necessary for it to function). Are there people out there working without any post high school education and doing fine? Yes. Are there people who have done that all their lives and are now struggling due to change in the market? Yes. Labor surplus has always been a problem, but the current paradigm is that in order to better compete, one must have at least an associates degree. In order for people to enjoy the relative economic comfort you and I will, or are likely to, they must better compete. COLLEGE! If you have any doubts about my statements, ask a professor of economics at your school about the average wage amongst those employed, but without post high school education. It is certainly above living wage (at the moment) but it is also not anywhere near the 100,000 a year mark. I'm not looking to get into an argument about the detriments of our economic system, or that of stratification, I am just asking you to concede that if, in fact, 20 percent% of the labor force has achieved an education of at least the B.A. figure(commonly accepted estimate, it gets argued either way, but that is a close estimate), then I ask you... Are they all seeking scholarly pursuits? No. They, like I, went to college as a means to an end, likely economic, but according to some surveys, perhaps altruistic, as in my case, where I aim to go into public service, but I assure you a minimum of them have any illusion as to that they are some how the scholarly elite of society. College costs money. Huge amounts of money. Loans are a economic strain that most cannot afford.

College is a white, middle class right of economic passage. Say what you will about the positive steps towards balancing out the ethnicity of those with higher level education, look around, and ask yourself.... do I see minorities represented on an a level that is appropriate to their percent in the local population? No. And, unless you somehow believe that they are inherently incapable of the higher pursuit of knowledge, what can explain this? Because as a whole, ethnic minorities have not reached the economic level of stature in society that requires them to demand their children attend college to keep up their standard of living.

Universities were once what you say they were, places of study, where individuals would attend to glean the knowledge of their elders in the field, namely in research, but now, they primarily have one focus, education. In all fields. That is where the money is made, and that is why college education is an economic pursuit. Because it is a market.

[thecoalition]

geiseric, not sure what youre major is but i have my bachelors in criminal justice and im working on my graduate in the same thing. Most jobs in that field wont get you more than 70k tops with a bachelors so i feel your pain. hence why im doing grad school. guaranteed 15-20k extra. Plus since i have a minor as well (in Homeland Security) I can pretty much do any type of government law/security agency. Seems to be that the analysis sector is where the money is for federal spots.

but yea...i just forgot where i was going with that. personally, college was/is a waste of time. the only thing i learned in college is that its bullshit. All my learning was self-taught and i wasted 75k for a piece of paper saying im smart, which i already knew. either way unless you are an economics major from harvard, you prolly wont be making 100k straight up. My friend jon is, however, an economy major from harvard and he landed a job straight out working for some investment banking group and he makes 100k plus they trained him and paid him an extra 20k for relocating him 50 miles so that he was in new york city and not in the suburbs.

[Geiseric]

I just set the 100 k point as a standard.... Its quite possible to achieve that with a bachelors (I won't and I don't care, I am hoping to become a public defendant because of my dislike of the criminal justice system) but it is near impossible with any other education path. I was just trying to make the point that it is in fact an economic stepping ladder, and really the only true one, anomalies do not make for a rule, if you will. I do believe there are better methods of achieving what I wish, but it is the only way for me to become licensed as a social worker(another personal goal), and also the only way to pass bar, so... You see where I'm going here? Edited December 18, 2007 by Geiseric

[thecoalition]

yea i got ya. the way i personally look at it...i work part time making $12 an hour and i live pretty decently and can buy some nice things with a little saving. as long as im making at least double that when i get a real job and im happy...then im set for life. although being a public defendant/social worker...well since youll need a part time job to supplement your income, im sure i could get you on the Best Buy staff!

[gaia.plateau]

And how long....? Come on... you cannot possibly be that optimistic. Ok, spend some time doing social work in poverty situations, then get back to me. BTW, most of those require post H.S. education to gain any real economic stability. just in the form of either tech school or programs along those lines. For example, take this publication by the IBR, designed to prove that college level education is not requirement for economic success:

What do you mean by "how long"?

What makes you think I haven't done social work in poverty situations? This year I spent 5 months in Central America, spending much of my time volunteering at schools and shelters, rebuilding, educating and feeding. Over 50% of the people in Guatemala, where I spent the great majority of my time (4 months), live below the UN's line of extreme poverty, and 10% live on less than 12 cents a day. What is your point with this?

If you have any doubts about my statements, ask a professor of economics at your school about the average wage amongst those employed, but without post high school education. It is certainly above living wage (at the moment) but it is also not anywhere near the 100,000 a year mark.

I have welder friends that make over 100k a year, only one of them has over 5 years of experience... my cousin the electrician makes 85k in his fourth year. I have a good dozen tree-planting friends that clear 50 grand in a summer, and many that work on rigs making upwards of 100k/year from their very first year. If you want easy work, you can monitor weather balloons for 100k starting, with only a high school degree. Almost every one of my alumni friends, with bachelor degrees, some even with master's degrees, are working at McDonald's or Blockbuster trying to pay off their loans.

I am just asking you to concede that if, in fact, 20 percent% of the labor force has achieved an education of at least the B.A. figure, then I ask you... Are they all seeking scholarly pursuits?

That figure doesn't seem remotely accurate to me, but it probably varies by region. Why should we hold the statistic for Indiana as indicative for education systems around the world? In any case, not all college degrees are about scholarship. Engineering, for example, is more about training.

I think that the majority of students are in it because of a passion for their subject, and for learning, and a minority are those who are doing what their parents want them to do. A smaller majority still might be those who feel that a BA is a means to an economic end.

College is a white, middle class right of economic passage.

So... African, Asian, and South American colleges are... what? Imaginary? Perhaps a commerce degree at Yale is a rite of economic passage, but you're talking about a minority of students.

Say what you will about the positive steps towards balancing out the ethnicity of those with higher level education, look around, and ask yourself.... do I see minorities represented on an a level that is appropriate to their percent in the local population?

Actually, there are far more Africans, Asians, Latinos, and Europeans in my University than there are outside of campus. I live in the frozen tundras of Central Canada, where probably less than .1% of the population is of African origin, yet over 4% of my University's population is black. Something like 15% are Asian. My city's population is about 85% white, 14% aboriginal, and 1% everything else, yet on campus that 1% is represented as nearly 25%.

Universities were once what you say they were, places of study, where individuals would attend to glean the knowledge of their elders in the field, namely in research, but now, they primarily have one focus, education. In all fields.

Are you saying that universities are no longer places of study because they focus on education? That sounds kind of ridiculous, or did you mean it another way?

college education is an economic pursuit. Because it is a market.

For the students or the adminstration? Before you were calling it an economic pursuit for students, but if you're basing this on the fact that higher education is a market, are you saying now that professors and administrators themselves are only in it for economic purposes? Edited December 18, 2007 by gaia.plateau

[Geiseric]

First off, allow me to say I assumed two things: We were speaking of America simply because.. that is after all... what I began the conversation with, speaking of colleges here, and that you have no experience in social work: but that does not negate my point: I am speaking of in America, and in Canada, if you wish, where we are supposed to all have a golden opportunity. Do not assume I am speaking ethnocentricly either, but let us divulge from the problem of global economics: that is a conversation for another day. But if I may clarify, I was speaking of HERE, in the topside of North America, and social work within said area, my point being to give you an idea of what life is like for the average American/ Canadian worker. We were, after all, speaking (I assume) of the opportunities of our peers, or selves.

Come to think of it, a lot of your answers were assuming that we were speaking globally. As I said, a conversation for another day, let us keep this simple for today. That being said, jumping to your relevant points:

Welder friends: anomaly, and a small one at that. How much of the labor market do you think they represent? And as to your alumni friends: perhaps location is key here? I can say without a doubt that my experience is quite to the contrary, my alumni friends had connections for careers before they even graduated, and I will become licensed the very moment I graduate, due to a B.A. being the only requirement for a social work license I have not fulfilled.

As to the last two comments: I am not stating that they do not fulfill the function of research (although, you should look into how much they do in proportion to research done by private and corporate institutions, it may be of interest to you), rather that this is not their overall purpose anymore. They market to students, because that is where the money is at. And it follows that, if they are selling something in a market, someone is buying. Here is where we divulge. I assume you fall into the argument that what we purchase is the tools to learn. This is put forth by the universities who sell these "tools" (surprise there, advertising your product positively, who of guessed). I, and many of my peers who study the nature of capitalism, and economy within it as relates to society, would state rather that what is being sold is a means to an end. It is the nature of a product, as described by early sociologists. Still, you could say the means to said end is higher learning. But again... I ask what you ignored: Do the majority of us go to college seeking scholarly pursuits, or rather go because it is deemed acceptable amongst our social class? From my experience, very few people state that they seek to heighten their scholarly awareness, rather they seek to enable themselves economically (albeit in less florid terminology). So who decides what is being sold? The provider of goods, or the market?

And as to the last statement, allow to to clarify for you: I speak of the institution, not the individuals within it. A prostitute may become such because she feels what she sells is necessary for her clients (unlikely situation, but lets roll with it) but it does not change that her clients opinion of her is otherwise, being that she is an object to them, a means to sexual satisfaction, not a human providing a service. This reality will become clear to her, as the role she is put into will be that of a sexual object, not of a provider of a service. This is purely sociological.. Individuals do not define institutions.

*I do have to add, just to continue on that line of thought, that the institution could be redefined if a paradigm shift were to occur that were to change education from a extremely economically elitest institution to where higher education became a public assurance, that anyone could participate in... But again, the belief that the professor holds that he is providing an opportunity for education for anyone who wants it does not change that it is, quite simply, not. He is allowed to continue in this delusion because... (shocker) he only sees those who can! In the various humanist fields, this is not as true, simply becuase by nature of the science, they are forced to face the harsh realities of the human condition within this society* Edited December 18, 2007 by Geiseric

[erufiku]

I have welder friends that make over 100k a year, only one of them has over 5 years of experience... my cousin the electrician makes 85k in his fourth year. I have a good dozen tree-planting friends that clear 50 grand in a summer, and many that work on rigs making upwards of 100k/year from their very first year. If you want easy work, you can monitor weather balloons for 100k starting, with only a high school degree. Almost every one of my alumni friends, with bachelor degrees, some even with master's degrees, are working at McDonald's or Blockbuster trying to pay off their loans.

<br /><br />Problem is you're writing from Canada trying to relate your personal experience to the American reality. Truth is, in Canada it is not a rare anomaly for labourers to earn $100K+ a year while people with BA are basically trying to make ends meet by working shitty jobs. That's one of the reasons I don't plan to stay in this country: it's an extension of a doomed model best exemplified by the Soviet Union.

edit: As to the topic, what can I say. At least finals week gives you an excuse to go on a massive bender once you're finished
It's tough, but it's worth it. Get a degree, move to a normal country if you happen to live in a shitty one and get on with your life. Edited December 18, 2007 by erufiku

[Geiseric]

Good point, I have spent a considerable time in Canada, but it would be a lie to say that I have a understanding of the whole economic situation there, my Canadian friends are few, and none of them have graduated.

As to moving.. my standpoint as a Marxian socialist (sort of, lets not get into that) is that I cannot stand capitalism, and the alienation and suffering that accompany it, but I also understand that short of society collapsing, there is no hope for true socialism to occur here. That being realized, my goal switched from toppling the tyranny of the wealthy (In high school, ahhhh, the bliss of ignorance) to alleviating the suffering of my peers. Being that my understanding of society is best in America, that became the location where I hoped to alleviate suffering, first economically through social work (I work with MI right now, but hopefully I'll get out of that when I get licensed, I am burning out FAST) and after law school, more focused on removing my fellow humans from their cages (s.o.a.d. Prison is playing in my head right now). My view on criminal justice is again a topic for another day, but you get the point.

[gaia.plateau]

We were speaking of America simply because.. that is after all... what I began the conversation with

Did you really?

Come to think of it, a lot of your answers were assuming that we were speaking globally.

The answers didn't assume that we were speaking globally... they were simply not restricted to unspecified localities.

Welder friends: anomaly, and a small one at that. How much of the labor market do you think they represent? And as to your alumni friends: perhaps location is key here?

That was just one of my seven examples, and I could list dozens more off the top of my head.

Here is where we divulge. I assume you fall into the argument that what we purchase is the tools to learn. This is put forth by the universities who sell these "tools" (surprise there, advertising your product positively, who of guessed). I, and many of my peers who study the nature of capitalism, and economy within it as relates to society, would state rather that what is being sold is a means to an end. It is the nature of a product, as described by early sociologists. Still, you could say the means to said end is higher learning. But again... I ask what you ignored: Do the majority of us go to college seeking scholarly pursuits, or rather go because it is deemed acceptable amongst our social class? From my experience, very few people state that they seek to heighten their scholarly awareness, rather they seek to enable themselves economically (albeit in less florid terminology). So who decides what is being sold? The provider of goods, or the market?

You do make an awful many assumptions, don't you . Marx did too... we'd all do well to learn from his mistakes. In the social sciences, assumption is often antithetical to discovery. I don't "fall into an argument". I perceive as objectively as I can and argue or act accordingly.

You're basing your position largely on your perception that the majority of students study for economic purposes. May I ask if you go to a university, a technical school, or a community college? In my experience the vast majority study for the pursuit of knowledge, for non-economic personal achievement, or for altruistic intentions, and the minority would be almost entirely from the colleges of Engineering, and to a lesser extent Law and Medicine.

And as to the last statement, allow to to clarify for you: I speak of the institution, not the individuals within it... Individuals do not define institutions.

But what is an institution but a collection of individuals operating by the policies they create? It's bold to presume them separable.

the institution could be redefined if a paradigm shift were to occur that were to change education from a extremely economically elitest institution to where higher education became a public assurance, that anyone could participate in...

Is that really what you perceive education to be? It isn't a perfect system, but the reality is that higher education is a public assurance that anyone can participate in. Every university in the world, as far as I'm aware, offers scholarships to those that prove themselves deserving of them. If there are certain facets of society that are held back by their ethnicity or subculture, it is because society has created these obstacles.

For example. My university offers 10 full scholarships a year in medicine for aboriginals. If a single one is accepted in a year, it's a triumph. The obstacles created for aboriginal peoples in Canadian society is too intricate a can of worms to open without great discourse, or there will be greater confusion produced than understanding. Yet, let me assure you that Eurocentric forces in Canada have effectively assimilated, marginalized, and decimated the aboriginal population to the point of desperation and hopelessness. It isn't the institution that creates these obstacles; it's far more systemic than that. When Stephen Harper criticized Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for failings in freedom of expression, the Iranian president replied that the Canadian prime minister had no position from which to criticize, while Canada continued to commit human rights atrocities against its indigenous population. I had to give him points for that.

my standpoint as a Marxian socialist (sort of, lets not get into that) is that I cannot stand capitalism, and the alienation and suffering that accompany it, but I also understand that short of society collapsing, there is no hope for true socialism to occur here.

That would be anarchy, not socialism.

Don't be so pessimistic... your lower education systems, public security, military, and to some extent your water and electric companies are all socialized. That's more than Venezuela can say, and it's a socialist country (electricity in Venezuela is run by a poverty-enforcing, future-crushing American corporation). It looks like any democratic President elected in 2008 will implement some form of socialized medicine. Americans really do love socialism, they just hate the word. Edited December 18, 2007 by gaia.plateau

[gaia.plateau]

Truth is, in Canada it is not a rare anomaly for labourers to earn $100K+ a year while people with BA are basically trying to make ends meet by working shitty jobs. That's one of the reasons I don't plan to stay in this country: it's an extension of a doomed model best exemplified by the Soviet Union.

Bear in mind... the great majority of my alumni friends have arts degrees

Sorry to burst your bubble, but most arts degrees are economically worthless no matter where you live.

[Cheese//]

I had to do internal and government exams this year.
I finished a total of 18 exams in 3 weeks
and I didn't kill myself.
In fact I raised my Maths mark from a 54 last term to a 74