Bill Clinton

[gaia.plateau]

The problem is that Islam was founded as a militant religion.

Where are you getting your information? NRA pamphlets? Just like Judaism and Christianity, Islam began essentially as a cult, then as a system of moral and legal order, then as a way to control populations, and eventually as an excuse for conquest.

Islam has historically been used as a justification and motivation for warfare, but not to a 10th the degree or frequency as Christianity.

[Bulldog_916]

In response to Texico:

Everything I have read points to the US practically giving Israel to the Jews as being what started this conflict. No, the US wasnt a member of the LoN, but we had SERIOUS influence after WW1. Would this conflict have happened anyway? I dont think so, not with a majority of the Jewish population left after Hitler being in Europe as opposed to the Middle East and Gaza. We gave them land as reparations for not reacting faster to their slaughter and the Palestinians went "WTF? That's ours." One thing leads to another, now you have the current tensions. It is much more complex, I know, but that's it in a nutshell.

I just dont believe we'd have the current problems with the Middle East that we do had Israel not been relinquished. The fact that it will never go back to the way it was tells me that there will never be true peace in Gaza or Jerusalem. Exterminating the Arab rebels would cause outcry in the Islamic world. So we're walking a thin fence here between disasters on 2 sides. I give it another year before serious military operations resume in Israel.

[Texico]

Bulldog_916:

I agree that the most immediate cause of the problems in the Middle East is the existence of Israel. However, I believe that the problems run deeper than that. Israel is merely the latest in a series of events which are fomented (usually) by Western Europe. And this is where the inquiry into why Europe was able to do this comes into play. Prior to industrialization the Ottoman Empire was the most powerful state in Europe and the Middle East. The only reason they weren't able to complete the conquest of the Austrian Empire is because they weren't able to bring their heavy cannon to bear on the Austrian defenses due to weather in the mountains. It took a combined British, Austrian, and Russian offensive to oust the Ottomans from the Balkans and the Caucasus. So then industrialization occurs and the powers that be in Constantinople and the rest of the Ottoman Empire oppose the changes needed to update their military technology and tactics, their civic engineering, production output for exportation, and healthcare technology such as vaccinations. These things all conspire to create a Middle Eastern region which begins to greatly lag behind Western Europe. Because of this the populations and tech's in Western Europe begin to greatly outpace their Middle Eastern counterparts. Is Europe at fault for this? Europe was merely taking advantage of a situation which could have been diverted by those in charge of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottomans were doing the same thing when they held power over Europe.

I'm glad that you all disagree with me. It's giving me all the more reason to read my new literature more voraciously.

[oolatec]

Bill Clinton sucks.

PS. Hillary Clinton sucks even more.

And Monica sucks even more than Hillary, apparently!

[Perrj99]

I hope Hilary Clinton gets testicular cancer.

[Texico]

I hope Hilary Clinton gets testicular cancer.

[r1v3th3ad]

The fighting still has yet to stop...rivers of blood in the streets in that region...all over "the holy land".
Why can't they just light up a hookah and share the land, instead of slaughtering each other? Edited January 26, 2008 by r1v3th3ad

[Bulldog_916]

Because their beliefs are so strong that they will sacrifice life, limb, and sanity to keep what is theirs on one side or get it back on the other.

I mourn for the loss of personage, but there's only so much of that I can do. I wont get in between them if they decide to wipe each other out. Religious fundamentalism = human unreasonableness.

[TheScotsman]

The fighting still has yet to stop...rivers of blood in the streets in that region...all over "the holy land".
Why can't they just light up a hookah and share the land, instead of slaughtering each other?

That particluar difficulty has been a nearly continious event stemming back to the times of Roman occupation. What would possibly make you think it is going to end in the near future?

when Bush took office, the C administration handed over to them hundreds of intelligence documents to carry on his anti-terrorism strategies, and the Bush administration threw them out the window.

And they stole equally as many, How can you infer he was handing over all this great info when he had his National Security Advisor sneaking top secret docs out in his underpants? Don't make me laugh. I bet he didn't hand over all the FBI files he was in possession of (all on over 900 Republicans). Nor the explanation of what REALLY happened to Vince Foster.

Clinton was the only president cited for Contempt of Court while in office. Now there is a sure sign of an upstanding gent.

Lets not forget his chief enforcer, er, I mean Janet Reno, and her many failures to uphold the law. (nice to have your atty general in your pocket, eh?)

Web hubble fell on his sword, and made a farthing or two for his effort.

China was caught smuggling kalashnikovs into the country, but since the DNC had a good donation, there was little made of it... No, wait... he decided to give them an export waiver for radiation hardened IC's. (critical for nuke warheads, most likely bound for th DF-31/CSS-9 "Dongfeng", and JL series missiles.) Eh, at this point they couldn't reach much beyond Western Canada, and the west coast of the USA. Some would say "no loss".

Hillary hired a psychic to talk to Eleanor Roosevelt (sounds like a presidential candidate to me!)

Ever read the response to Ken Starr's report?


And as for anyone that thinks Clinton balanced anything, go get a grip. If you think presidents make budgets then you are so lacking on the knowledge of government operation that you are inconsequential in the whole scheme of things. CONGRESS sets the budget.

When C had a dem congress whe was spending like nuts, it wasn't until the USA decided to replace the dems with Newt's "contract with America" that the balanced budget was passed. There were votes to override a veto resoundingly, C had the wits to not destroy his prestige in an attempt to veto it. It was not clinton, but a repub congress that forced a balanced budget.


What the hell happened to the small gov/spending Repubs? Who knows?

[Bulldog_916]

Pres. Clinton's Accomplishments...

Signing the Family and Medical Leave Act

Dont Ask Dont Tell (Gays being allowed into the military) (Quite frankly, I think this ushered in a new level of tolerance of gays as a group of people, rather than exiled because of their natural tendencies. This level of tolerance was unheard of at that time.)

NAFTA- (In it's native form...the lifting of tariffs against trade north and south of the U.S., the environmental cooperation of the 3 nations in improving policies regarding the environment, and the labor cooperation agreement in its non-bastardized form.)

Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act- Raised taxes on the wealthiest of the wealthy while cutting taxes on 15 million low income families. It also made tax cuts available for the majority of small businesses.

Promoted a policy of regime change in Iraq WITHOUT the use of American ground troops.

Kept an above average economic record.

Bush's Accomplishments

Tried to cut taxes by 1.2 trillion dollars.

From 2001, GDP annual growth rate of 2.5%, the lowest since the 40s.

Standard of living increases, mostly for the top 1% of income earners.

The No Child Left Behind Act....laughable at best

Tried to revamp social security....failed

Lack of support of Kyoto

Now overseeing a severe recession

Failed to complete immigration reform

Hurricane Katrina response was disgusting, worst of any natural disaster in decades

Made little if any progress in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

9/11 response in Afghanistan was top notch. *******

Initial Iraq military operations were well overseen. The plan afterwards was a disaster to put it mildly.

Approved a democratic CONGRESS WRITTEN/Passed hike of the minimum wage.


These are the facts of how history will look upon these guys. The days we now live in will soon be looked upon as a dark age, a stain on America's reputation, IMO.

[TheScotsman]

Calling what congress passes an "accomplishment" of a president shows your lack of knowledge.
All it proves is that the president in question can make an X on a line (in Clinton's case, that IS an accomplishment, so you may have a point!)


NAFTA was GB #1's baby. And possibly the STUPIDEST idea I have ever heard of.

Family leave act... exactly why I bought 3 CNC routers... I don't have to deal with leave, bs excuses, and taxes for them. Orig cost 163K, 4 years ago. They had paid for themselves in reduced payroll in 3.5 years. Good act, saved me some $, and listening to people whine about problems.

Bill threatened a veto on OBRDA, then again to the budget of 1995. Newt forced the issue by shutting the Gov't down until clinton accepted the balanced (much cut) budget. Any veto could be overridden at that point. Calling something you were forced to sign and accomplishment is totally hilarious... I love liberals, I need the laughs.

Gays need to be in a hole, not the military. I must side with the radical sects of Islam in this one.

[Scalliwag]

you must be a big GW fan there Scotty? I think I can answer the question as to what happened to "small gov/spending Repubs". They never existed. It was always a ploy to get votes. Just like complaining about earmarks.
The last time we had a republican president, senate, and congress what did they give us? McCarthyism.
The only reason GW has not been cited for either contempt of court or perjury is because he refuses to do anything under oath or by himself and he is not pressed hard enough to do so.
Remember that GW would not testify under oath to the 911 Commission. He would only meet with them WITH CHENEY in the room with them at the same time.
He has lied plenty of times. No idiot denies that... well, maybe an idiot would. But just not under oath because he is king of executive priviledge.
While some people may think lying about bj's are lower than lying us into wars, some with a little common sense would disagree.

As far as buying CNC equipment, that is just good business sense. I strongly doubt you held back buying them prior to the family leave act so that you could provide more jobs for "whiney" people. Those people are probably much better off
And repubs overplayed their hand when the government shut down. Clinton came out looking great on that. Just like Newt and his playing the impeachment card and the dems picked up seats in 1998. it cost Newt his speakership.
Not only that but Newt was screwing his staffer when he said that "if a man's wife cannot trust him, neither can his country". Then the repubs went to put Bob Livingston's family values ass as speaker and "oops" turns out he had been having a few affairs himself.

Cheney won't turn over the names of the people that helped set the energy policy. We know their buddies at Enron were there. We know we have $3 gallon gas now. We have a war that is going into the trillion dollar mark. The republican record says it all. Laugh at democrats all you want but this is your babies that got us here.

Oh, and it was after 911 that Sandy went in and stole documents. Of course no one knows what he stole and why? Well, because the Bush administration never bothered reading any of that stuff for the nine months leading up to 911.

[TheScotsman]

you must be a big GW fan there Scotty? I think I can answer the question as to what happened to "small gov/spending Repubs". They never existed. It was always a ploy to get votes. Just like complaining about earmarks.
The last time we had a republican president, senate, and congress what did they give us? McCarthyism.
The only reason GW has not been cited for either contempt of court or perjury is because he refuses to do anything under oath or by himself

Quite the opposite, I think GW is a walking excuse for birth control (or abstinence if you are in that religious nut group). No one could accuse curious george of perjury... if only because he never really says anything with any real meaning, and if he happens to stumble into a definitive statement no one pays attention because they are so mind-numbed from the prior BS they aren't paying any attention.

Remember that GW would not testify under oath to the 911 Commission. He would only meet with them WITH CHENEY in the room with them at the same time.

A power play I am sure everyone with a wit about themselves saw through.

He has lied plenty of times. No idiot denies that... well, maybe an idiot would. But just not under oath because he is king of executive priviledge.

A bit like that same executive privilege William Jefferson is claiming when trying to get his 90K of marked bribe money back after the FBI videotaped him accepting, and keeping in his freezer?

While some people may think lying about bj's are lower than lying us into wars, some with a little common sense would disagree.

Some things I admire about Bill... The only thing I find wrong with lying about his "accomplishments" is his choice in women... but one look at Hillary, and ANYTHING may have been a step up!

As far as buying CNC equipment, that is just good business sense. I strongly doubt you held back buying them prior to the family leave act so that you could provide more jobs for "whiney" people. Those people are probably much better off

They were, and still are friends. (well, 2 are, one died in a MC accident last spring) I loaned one the down for his house. The real choice came when, taxes, and employment hassles just got too big. Workers comp rates jumped from 15.3 to over 22.10, my group health carrier (farm bureau) said the new leave, and required coverage mandates made my small group policy a thing of the past. (maternity for my all-male staff... funny) just not possible to keep them around when it was bottom lining $55./hr+

When it comes down to it... I seriously think they are all a bunch of arses. One side wants to force democracy down the worlds throat, all the while taking civil rights, and privacy's away at their own populace at whim. Rather than helping the lower class, they answer with a barrage of insane laws, and more police agencies, and powers. No child left behind... what a bunch of crap, how about dumping the mandates, and let the teachers teach the students without spending 2 weeks a year trying to prop the poor kids up to pass some daydream of a standards test? Better yet, why are we letting loads of foreigners into the country on "J" visas to staff the hospitals, and fill the engineering chairs, all the while making no attempt to alleviate the stupid-high costs of a college education? On the other hand we have insanely expensive wastes of money thrown into programs that, in the long run, do little more than create a dead end, rather than a step up, for those in need. All the while those same programs are exploited by people not in need of them. From everything I have seen "we the people" do the best when one party occupies the congress, and one the presidency. The republicans have governed by terror. Every word they say is aimed toward scaring people into supporting their insanity. GW won the last election by terrorizing the public into thinking there were hordes of olive-skinned men in white robes waiting to burst forth, and kill everyone. His policies have set relations with the middle east back decades. GW's legacy is one of a little want-to-be demigod who single handedly made a total mess out of both the US domestic policy, and foreign affairs. He is the American Nero... and Rome is burning.

My only "problem" with Bubba is that no one looks at his admin for what it was. The left has a nasty habit of taking things they didn't do, and claiming them... then bantering about stupid one-line slogans whose meaning is dubious at best, and an outright lie in most cases. They try to setup a class/race/sex envy/dispute, and utilize it to their own advantage. Seldom do we hear how they are going to "fix" anything, only that we need to change it. Falling off the seat into the hole under the outhouse is a change... but not one I personally want to make!

The budget be damned... Bush mk1 left the stage with the hounds on his heels! He had started fires he had no way to put out. Bubba didn't have a chance of keeping his head above water. (especially with those 2 anchors called Janet Reno, and Hillary tied to the man's neck!)

Don't get me started on the Holy-Rollers! A bunch of people that tell me how to act, but can't even remember to lock the damn door when the secretary comes in "to take notes". Model citizens they are. All we hear is pro-life hogwash. I don't have a dog in the anti-abortion race. I think that is part of that whole privacy, and personal choice thing. Gov't has no business in it.

What I want is a box on the ballot that says "none of the above". When my candidate wins a landslide then we take the first white house tour, have them draw straws, and looser gets the job. (poor bastard)

As far as I have seen the whole lot are a collection of douche-canoes.

[Bulldog_916]

I guess we agree on more than we think. Your response actually makes me like you. I dont think the budget would have been much worse off had OBRDA been passed with the extras. We still would have closed out better and with a bit of a surplus. Much much better than GW. I'll agree with you on some points, but I will always think that the Clinton administration was the best of times because I was growing up through it. This was back in the time where kids had recess and physical activity times. My parents were able to buy their current house under his admin. Times just seemed more innocent and less stressful, that's what I miss. I hope to get it back with Obama or Paul, whoever looks better when all is said and done.

[Scalliwag]

Haha!!! I liked that response as well Scotsman really doesn't seem to like anybody.... well.... at least it comes across in posts that way. I think a lot of the humanity gets lost in text sometimes and it can be a bit misleading. Some of the stuff is damn funny though

[Bulldog_916]

Agreed there Scalli. We're all people. We may disagree, but thats the nature of the game. Part of being American or civilized Canadian or whatever you are.