Bill H.r.2932 Against All Tobacco

[r1v3th3ad]

I strongly urge those of you in the U.S. to write to your House rep..
Rep. John McHugh of NY put forth a bill that would make mailing tobacco products completely illegal with extreme fines for attempting to mail. I have three seperate links of reference for you, on the same site.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110...p/~c110K1MPjw::
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:h.r.02932:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d1...mp;summ2=m&


Let the discussions begin
p.s. click the thumb, i feel like the granny with this bill Edited January 15, 2008 by r1v3th3ad

[TheScotsman]

Shisha, Pipe, and Cigars not affected... besides, it's USPO, not private carrier.

[r1v3th3ad]

from what I read and the political science dep. told me on campus is that is affects all tobacco products through the mail...i'm sure if it goes through, they would try something with every other business transporting goods...

[jbean422]

it wouldnt count for ups but still that would be really messed up if it happens

[Gold Wing Gunner]

qft, one restriction leads to five restrictions, which leads to all restrictions...

[TheScotsman]

Sponsored by McHugh of NY (Republicasaurus), Co sponsored by DeGette of COLODARO (Dem) Capps from CA (Dem), and Morgan from VA (Dem).

I can't say I am surprised to see the co-sponsors are all DEMOCRATS, nor that McHugh sponsored the bill, he's way out on the liberal end of being a repub. So typical, and exactly why, even though I find myself hating what the repubs have become, I find the Dems far worse. Wait to see what rights you loose if they get full control of the congress, and the presidency. Go elect those wonderful liberals, you get what you deserve with them.

At this point it is limited to cigarettes, roll-your-own products, and chew. But we all know how that mess goes... once the camel's nose is in the tent...
http://mchugh.house.gov/News/DocumentSingl...ocumentID=69308 They say it's about underage purchase, but I would dare guess it's more about collecting tax $ from the tobacco "money-cow"


USPO refuses to carry allot of items that are handled through UPS, Fed-Ex, and RPS. Edited January 16, 2008 by TheScotsman

[The Devils Playground]

HHMM and wonder why we just put the DPG or from Holly Moore?

Yea we are on top of this game.

It will just cause Vendors to put fake return addresses on everything.

[TheScotsman]

The bill provides for prosecution of both the sender, AND recipient, more importantly gives the postal inspectors power of subpoena, and search.

From a federal point of view, once something is in possession of the USPO it IS government property until it is physically received by the addressee, They have an incredibly wide latitude in what they can do. The power to subpoena credit card records pretty well puts an end to the whole business. A second time shipping/receiving becomes a felony. Pretty insane, and in typical gov't fashion, once they have a new stick, they are going to start beating people with it.

You and I both know if the problem was youth purchase they could very easily require adult signature for delivery, or documented age verification before sending product. It's about taxes, and making sure the high tax states don't have their citizens (victims, maybe?) purchasing from out of state. Edited January 16, 2008 by TheScotsman

[ZenSilk]

Anyone wouldn't happen to be or know an assassin would you?

[jayson]

Sponsored by McHugh of NY (Republicasaurus), Co sponsored by DeGette of COLODARO (Dem) Capps from CA (Dem), and Morgan from VA (Dem).

Capps co-sponsored? She is my representative. She had no political experience prior to being elected. Her husband was in that seat for years, and when he croaked, she gave a "moving" speech about how he would want her to continue on. The voters swooned and bit the hook and elected her, and she has been there ever since. God I hate that woman.

And I agree with the above posters... this is just another sham of a bill that is being sent through Congress under the guise of "watching out for America's youth". I think we all know how that works. When I wanted tobacco or beer, I would wait outside 7-11 until I saw a bum, hand him a $20 and told him what I wanted and he could keep the rest. It always worked.

This just, once again, exclusively affects the law abiding citizens.

[r1v3th3ad]

Sponsored by McHugh of NY (Republicasaurus), Co sponsored by DeGette of COLODARO (Dem) Capps from CA (Dem), and Morgan from VA (Dem).

Capps co-sponsored? She is my representative. She had no political experience prior to being elected. Her husband was in that seat for years, and when he croaked, she gave a "moving" speech about how he would want her to continue on. The voters swooned and bit the hook and elected her, and she has been there ever since. God I hate that woman.

And I agree with the above posters... this is just another sham of a bill that is being sent through Congress under the guise of "watching out for America's youth". I think we all know how that works. When I wanted tobacco or beer, I would wait outside 7-11 until I saw a bum, hand him a $20 and told him what I wanted and he could keep the rest. It always worked.

This just, once again, exclusively affects the law abiding citizens.

Its just another attack on personal liberties. They go for the things people enjoy because they know that we'll still stick with it despite(oil prices/taxes(cuz we like the convenience of driving over walking), tobacco taxes, alcohol taxes...)their uping the charge. Next thing ya know they're gonna start makin us pay a tax on our hookers.

[guyt]

/Quote
And I agree with the above posters... this is just another sham of a bill that is being sent through Congress under the guise of "watching out for America's youth". I think we all know how that works. When I wanted tobacco or beer, I would wait outside 7-11 until I saw a bum, hand him a $20 and told him what I wanted and he could keep the rest. It always worked. /
Quote

Or you could promise a crackhead a dimebag and they do it for free. You just gotta make sure you can run faster than them when you don't give them nothing back.

[Bulldog_916]

Pretty soon tobacco will be as illegal as actual drugs. They are just keeping the door cracked so that the funds can still come in. Fuckin bullshit. Email your reps if you can get to em. Something tells me the email boxes are like rotating recepticals. Things go in and dont come out.

[r1v3th3ad]

thats why you gotta go USPS...I always get a reply when I write a letter and drop it in the mail....
hmmm...could also be for my former political ties..?

[Bulldog_916]

It's never a true reply, always a generic "thanks for you support of *insert name here*! we support you back and want to hear more from you! Issue xyz is very important to us and this is what we are doing...*insert generic bullet points here*."

That is what gets sent out as the actual letter is hitting the shredder.

[r1v3th3ad]

Generally, when they get a shit ton of letters about the same topic from a bunch of pissed off voters, they will care. A bunch and no action from representative = no more political career in that region for them....

[Glassjaw]

Pretty soon tobacco will be as illegal as actual drugs. They are just keeping the door cracked so that the funds can still come in. Fuckin bullshit. Email your reps if you can get to em. Something tells me the email boxes are like rotating recepticals. Things go in and dont come out.

Not to nitpick, but tobacco is a drug.

As far as this ban is concerned, it's a load of crap.

[Bulldog_916]

Tobacco is a plant. Nicotine is a drug.

And yes, the ban is crapski.

The only place politicians feel vulnerable is when they are talking eye to eye, face to face with real people. Otherwise it's just another padded room in a sheltered job site.

[bubbascigars]

God I hope this does not pass this would suck big time.

[r1v3th3ad]

It could end up being a bill that is snuck into another, more important bill. Kind of like how Bush snuck in that if it was found that they have committed any war crimes, he and all those within, would be pardoned. I love it.
I think it will eventually be suaded in, but hope not.

[St. Goodypants]

I hate US politics.

When it's not run by special interests and big money, it's run by public misunderstanding and panic.

The really ironic thing is that we let it happen year after year after year by electing the same old dipshits because they have the prettiest and most expensive ads.

/Rant

This shouldn't pass. Retaining our rights as citizens means that it just shouldn't.
It probably will, but it shouldn't.

[raytrace]

This is what you get when you allow organizations like TRUTH to gain too much influence and political clout.

I particularly enjoy how they constantly quote "In the U.S., about 50,000 people die each year from secondhand smoke-related diseases." which is quoted from an old EPA report on second-hand smoke.


N.M. the fact that the U.S. Supreme Court jumped all over the EPA after they found out that the EPA "massaged" their research on second-hand smoke.... but no one really knows about that do they?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,26109,00.html

World No-Tobacco Day 2001 was yesterday. Sponsored by the World Health Organization, the theme was secondhand smoke. The event’s poster featured “Secondhand Smoke Kills” emblazoned over a photo of the Marlboro Man riding into the sunset.

WHO proclaimed, “Second-hand smoke is a real and significant threat to public health. Supported by two decades of evidence, the scientific community now agrees that there is no safe level of exposure to second-hand smoke… The evidence is in, let is act on it.”

That’s quite an ironic statement, though. It appears the WHO doesn’t even put much faith in its own research on secondhand smoke.

The WHO’s World No-Tobacco day web site lists, “Comprehensive Reports on Passive Smoking by Authoritative Scientific Bodies.” The listed reports include the 1986 reports from the Surgeon General and National Research Council, the 1993 report from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, and two late-1990s reports from the California EPA.

For those unfamiliar with the reports, the list appears formidable. Otherwise, it’s just disingenuous.

The 1986 reports by the NRC and Surgeon General concluded secondhand smoke was a risk factor for lung cancer. But of the 13 studies reviewed, 7 reported no link between secondhand smoke and lung cancer. Given the statistical nature of these studies, this split in results is precisely what one would expect if no true link existed.

Neither report produced much progress for anti-smoking activists. So they convinced the EPA to pick up the gauntlet.

Thirty-three studies on secondhand smoke had been completed by 1993. More than 80 percent of the studies reported no association between secondhand smoke and lung cancer, including the largest of the studies. The EPA reviewed 31 studies - inexplicably omitting two studies reporting no association between secondhand smoke and lung cancer - and estimated secondhand smoke caused 3,000 lung cancer deaths annually.

Under the stewardship of the anti-tobacco Clinton administration, secondhand smoke hysteria caught fire.

Observing the “success” of the EPA report, the California EPA adopted by reference the EPA’s conclusions into the state agency’s own report. Little original or independent analysis went into the Cal-EPA report.

Just when it seemed anti-smoking activists finally succeeded in producing scientific reports establishing secondhand smoke as a health risk, a federal judge overturned the EPA report in 1998. He ruled the EPA cheated on the science.

(Follow link above for full report)

[St. Goodypants]

ayup yup yup.

[nitrousconsumed]

how about molasses?

[J-thehookaholic]

And this is why I have a thread about how we really don't have democracy in this country. Its all smoke, mirrors, and lies. Another bullshit excuse to invade our privacy and take away our liberties. WTF ever happened to pursuing happiness in this country..... OH YEAH, THEY PASSED A REGUALTION AGAINST THAT TOO!!! F-ING DOUCHEBAGGERY!!!