You Guys Gotta Read This!

[mushrat]

A letter I just got from Gabriel at exotic. This is pathetic, what little of it I read, since I had no desire to try to follow this awsome looking rant.

dam AKA Mushrat,

I am emailing you today as a formal warning regarding what you have
done and
hope it is taken seriously.

Here is the play by play:

3 months ago, you banned me because I posted advertising and I
apologized
due to the fact that I was new. My ip was banned as well as my user id

Then Exotica boomed and everyone started talking about it

Exotic Imports had one bad batch of coals and I found out through other
sources that you ran into some. I spoke to you over the phone and told
you
I will send you some free cases. We have all tracking information and
no
money from you to show that you paid for them. BECAUSE I WAS SENDING
YOU
FREE COAL, you reactivated my account

Because I was rewelcomed, I explained to everyone on the forum what
happened
to the coals and why there was about 60 bad cases which were released
to the
public before we pulled them off of the shelves. I also posted pictures
of
the load as proof. I answered many questions people had and helped
direct
people with questions they had. I worked very hard to participate
unbiastly
on the site and you were very happy because you received your 2 free
cases
of Exoticas, even though after the fact that the coals were not
purchased
from us and we had no proof you even had coals.

What company do you know in the hookah business that publicly announces
that
something went wrong and replace and send out free items and take the
customers words with no proof??? Well no one I know.

Then time past. After sending out many many free cases of coals, many
of
which were lies to get free coal, and with the help of others, everyone
was
pleased. All the coals were sent to anyone who stated that they
received
bad coals and no proof was asked for.

Suddenly, the issue pops up again by a Canadian user named
gaia.plateau. He
started problems again stating that he supposedly received bad coals
from
J&R Hookahs. He supposedly ordered the boxes of coals 2 months ago and
just
got them. He stated that the coals were wet. Not once do we ship wet
coals
to our distributors nor do they do the same. He then changed the story
and
said he was not available to get the coal for 25 days and he then tried
it
and it was bad. Then this brought upon a new thread which I explained
to
everyone that there is nothing wrong with the coals and that was old
news.

Suddenly, you PM me stating that you suddenly have 8 bad cases of coal
and
want new coals. You stated that if I do not send you free replacement,
you
will tell everyone not to buy Exoticas and switch to nour. I explained
to
you that we have sent you 2 at NO COST and we are willing to send you
one
more case when we get the new batch. You then replied, which we have
exact
conversation if needed. You threatened us to send you the coals or you
will
pretty much destroy us.

Within a few minutes you banned me and posted a thread. Your reason
for
banning was that I posted a reply on a thread asking where people can
order
hookahs and who can ship to Canada. I replied, we do and you PMed me
that
you banned me for that, even though after the fact that 4 days had
passed
and coincidentally you threatened me online, which we have copies
forwarded
to unknown locations as proof. You made sure to slander us, Exotic
Imports,
Exotica after you banned us so we can not reply and explain to others
the
truth, which is similar to being accused of being guilty and having no
chance to prove that you are innocent, followed by the death penalty.

Pretty much, you activated our account for free coals and once we
stopped
sending you free coals, you banned us, what a coincidence. Threatened,
Slandered right after and gave us no chance to explain.

After we saw you open up thread after thread of bs, we got access to
sending
out PMs to people why you are doing this and that you blocked us.
Within
seconds you blocked our ip and opened another thread thinking it's a
game
calling it Exotic Imports gone forever.

Hookah Kings gave you the moderation rights but with it, you took
advantage
and kicked off, banned many people who were honest and expressed their
feelings. You banned anyone who didn't like you, who didn't give you
free
things or treated you like a king. I did what I can and you took
advantage
of everything then hit me with a threat, give me free things or you are
banned, which that is also blackmail. Hmm.


The game has ended for you. I have spoken to a few people you
slandered as
well as people who you banned recently for no reason and the future
will be
brought upon if this issue is not resolved. It is illegal to talk
negative
about a product as you do. You can not tell people, because you have
problem with me, that my complete product is bad, even after the fact
that
there is nothing wrong with it and we have openly told you why there
was
something wrong with it a long time ago. You can not tell people do
this
and do that otherwise.... You, out of everyone breaks more rules that
you
have established, and here you say I did by helping a person who was
asking
a question, where to buy hookahs and who ships to canada? How did I
offend
you or anyone, enough for you to remove my posting, because I stated
that we
ship to Canada?

You have taken a personal thing public and we are going to take further
action against you on many grounds. We have copied all postings and
threads
you have bashed us and that is also illegal. We also have your emails
you
have sent us from the past. Although, we do not have all out PM
messages
copied, we have the ones we need to prosecute. We hoped it didn't go
this
far but you made it go this far and now its our game.

Also, if this causes issues with the owner of the site, Hookah Kings
and
myself from future business due to your ignorance and slander as well
as
causing chaos, we will hold that completely against you for loss of
business.

Only way to prevent any issues is a formal public apology regarding
issue on
HookahForum and removal of all the threads you posted and created on
Jan 18
,2008. If you refuse to do so, we will be taking this to a higher
authority
and possibly join up with other members and class action sounds like a
great
plan... hint hint. We have pictures, forum messages, slanders, lies
and
power trips of yourself all documented and we are ready to shut you
down
completely as you do not deserve the power you have due to the fact
that
your ego has gotten in the way and you have a power trip thinking the
forum
is all about you. Its your way or the highway, which is the bad
mentality.
You have caused us money, sales and you have spilled lies after lies,
promoting your product you are selling now, nour. Advertising for nour
is
legal in your site but when I talk about Exotica, it is illegal? Biost
too
I see as well as slander towards us on a product which is perfectly
fine.

We have proof that only 60 boxes were damaged and the rest of the
damaged
and even undamaged boxes are all stored in a warehouse which are not
touched. All other shipments have been excellent and we will show all
that
in the courts.

By you taking something personal and use it against me online and try
to
talk negative regarding my products and my company is illegal. By you
threatening us to give you free things or else is illegal. Also, we
spoke
to AF online and know exactly how many cases you have bought and your
stories do not match, especially with the damaged shipment times and
what
you say.

For Gods sake, I even donated money to the forum and I will do a charge
back
today and everyone can thank you for that. Shame that it came to this
point
and I feel sorry for the other mods, members and the owners that
someone as
biost as you runs the forum. Also, what happened to "I Quit?" Hmmm, I
know
what happened, and I know the complete story. HINT HINT

Looking forward to a reply and as stated before, I feel sorry that you
are
still given the power to boss people around, ban people for no reason,
talk
people down and think its all about you. Game over if I can help it if
the
right thing is not done now. Remove the threads, apologize and I will
assure you that I will never direct traffic to me from the site, as
well as
I will never post anything on the site other than updates on new
products.
If the owners, Hookah Kings, doesn't want that, I respect them to the
upmost
and I will completely leave the site with no hard feelings. But if
this is
not resolved and more threads have been added, I WILL SEE YOU IN COURT
AND
YOU ARE LIABLE IN A HEARTBEAT AND WE WILL SHUT YOU DOWN.

Thanks
Gabriel
Exotic Imports USA
888 783 3123

[shisha fan]

he sent me this PM:

We replaced all the exoticas for the time being. We had 60 cases bad. All 60 were accounted for and people started taking advantage of it. There are NO MORE BAD EXOTICAS on the market 100% guarenteed. Mushrat just upset he wanted more coals for free to take advantage of the situation and we said no s we sent him alot of free already...
He got mad, banned me and started a bs thread as a part of his thread which we will take further action if needed against him


Gabriel
Exotic Imports
888 783 3123


edit: nevermind, i see asusean has already made a thread about it.

[gaia.plateau]

And now a running commentary by me, gaia.plateau, of all the best parts so you don't have to wade through this god-awful mess, beginning with the paragraph involving myself.

"Suddenly, the issue pops up again by a Canadian user named
gaia.plateau. He started problems again stating that he supposedly received bad coals
from J&R Hookahs. He supposedly ordered the boxes of coals 2 months ago and
just got them. He stated that the coals were wet. Not once do we ship wet
coals to our distributors nor do they do the same. He then changed the story
and said he was not available to get the coal for 25 days and he then tried
it and it was bad. Then this brought upon a new thread which I explained
to everyone that there is nothing wrong with the coals and that was old
news."

I actually claimed that I received the coals after a month, but didn't need to use them until a week or so ago. I never said that they were wet, but only water damaged. I sent them pictures of the raggedy hot sauce box they were shipped in, of the bent and water damaged coal boxes, and of the obviously water-damaged coals themselves.

"You stated that if I do not send you free replacement, you will tell everyone not to buy Exoticas and switch to nour. You threatened us to send you the coals or you will pretty much destroy us."

Yeah that sounds like stuff that Mush would say.

"even though after the fact that the coals were not purchased from us and we had no proof you even had coals."

"we spoke to AF online and know exactly how many cases you have bought and your stories do not match, especially with the damaged shipment times and what you say. "

Hmmmm contradict yourself much?

"which we have copies forwarded to unknown locations as proof"

"thinking it's a game"

"The game has ended for you. "

"now its our game."

"Game over if I can help it"

"It is illegal to talk negative about a product as you do."

"You have taken a personal thing public and we are going to take further action against you on many grounds. We have copied all postings and threads you have bashed us and that is also illegal."

"we will be taking this to a higher authority and possibly join up with other members and class action sounds like a great plan... hint hint."

"By you taking something personal and use it against me online and try to talk negative regarding my products and my company is illegal. By you threatening us to give you free things or else is illegal."

"we are ready to shut you down"

"I WILL SEE YOU IN COURT AND YOU ARE LIABLE IN A HEARTBEAT AND WE WILL SHUT YOU DOWN"

OH SNAP MUSH THE CIA ARE COMING 4 YOU FOR GIVING A VENDOR A BAD REVIEW ON THE INTERNETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can run from the law up to Canada, and stay with me, but you have to bring lots of shisha.

"You have caused us money, sales and you have spilled lies after lies,
promoting your product you are selling now, nour"

Oh snap, he found out about Mush's secret HQ in the nour volcano, from which he distributes to the world nour charcoals, which is really just mushrat backwards... in Romanian.

Pretty much, you activated our account for free coals and once we stopped sending you free coals, you banned us, give me free things or you are banned

Except that you sent out thousands of faulty charcoal, so you replaced a small portion of them to some of the customers you screwed over, and when you demonstrated yourself to be a moron and a liar you received treatment as per the ruels of the forum.

We have proof that only 60 boxes were damaged and the rest of the damaged and even undamaged boxes are all stored in a warehouse which are not touched. All other shipments have been excellent and we will show all that in the courts.

If this is true, and he didn't estimate, then he must have known that the coals were damaged before shipping them, and thusly broke federal law by commiting fraud, which is punishable by prison time. A bit worse than the penalty for giving a bad review, eh Gabe? Countersuit, beh-bay.

"[this situation is like] being accused of being guilty and having no chance to prove that you are innocent, followed by the death penalty."

My personal favourite line. I might make it my signature for the forum.

[gaia.plateau]

Synopsis and Conclusion.

The theme of this e-mail is that Gabe believes Mush has personally and intentionally soiled his reputation on the forum, and he iterates repeatedly that because of this Mush owes him an apology, or will face legal action for slander.

The truth is that Gabe has soiled his own reputation through repeated dishonesty, arrogance, and most unfortunately of all, stupidity. I say most unfortunately because in this way he has suicide-bombed into all of us, or at least myself, who I can rightly speak for. I like Exoticas, but I can't do business with someone I can't trust, that's just the way I roll. And Gabriel has actively prevented me from ever being able to trust him again. So I'm going to be trying out some coconut charcoals, and if they're as good or better (they're pre-notched so no more getting my hands black, or having to pull out my hammer-claw to break up the coal), I'll be switching to those and reporting to you on them.

The greatest irony of this letter, which repeatedly details how Mushrat's reviews and threads have damaged Gabe's reputation... is that this letter, typed by his own hands and created from his own dishonest and contradicting thoughts, has done his reputation worse damage than Mushrat or any of us could ever do.

You wanted it from the horse's mouth? Well, now you have it. Edited January 19, 2008 by gaia.plateau

[dushira]

How can saying that a product is bad being illegal? If somebody is selling crap and cheating peoples (not saying this about exotica, i like the coals, didnt get any bad ones) it's sure that i'm gonna be warning peoples away from the product and the vendor.

[EvansLight]

Gabe is convinced Mushrat is the devil, and in bed with Nour, and all that. Call me crazy but didnt mushy leave nour for Exotica for a while? Hmmm....

His ass is banned from the forums, and he will more then likely stay that way. He didnt contribute, he just posted about his crap and got pissed when someone had problems. I personally wont even try them cause i dont like anything that doesnt almost light itself

Is he going to sue me for not using his coals?

Mush might be an admin, but he is still allowed to post his opinion. And if Gabe does take him to court, i will gladly come out and testify that Gabe ruined his own damn reputation.

[mathuv]

well....damn blanked out.... oh yeah. well mush has a right to try any coal in the world and post his opinion on it, just cos gabe doesnt like hearing people expressing their opinion about his products, doesnt mean he has to hate him and start bitching. i think this whole fight is childish and unfortunatley, gabe is looking like a baby. Im assuming he's going to go to another forum (the forum where all HF's rejects go?) and bitch about him there. A good solution to this would have been for mushrat to send the bad coal directly back to exotic imports and then exotic imports sending back a good batch + re-imbursing mushrat for shipping. Its not Mushrat's fault he got a bad batch, its the shipping company's fault for having a leaking container and i think the supplier should have to pay. You can expect this in any business...say i bought a hookah from XYZ and when i received it i complained. I have a right to a refund/replacement. If they don't replace it, i am legally allowed to report this.

[The Devils Playground]

Hey I have to defend Gabe here. Gabe does not think Mush is the Devil. Everyone knows Neal from the Devils Playground (AKA Wolrd Hookah) is the Devil.

See I can laugh and have fun. I just choose to do it rolling aorund in money normally. lol

[gaia.plateau]

A good solution to this would have been for mushrat to send the bad coal directly back to exotic imports and then exotic imports sending back a good batch + re-imbursing mushrat for shipping.

I offered to do that in my very first PM to Gabe concerning my 6 bad boxes, and I even offered to pay the shipping, but Gabe refused. As I've said, it's not his greed or his arrogance that really disappoints me, it's his stupidity. He knows that the bad batch was much bigger than he originally thought, he just can't see past the next paycheck so he's throwing away loyal customers like spent ash and shisha, to pinch pennies and cut his losses. Edited January 19, 2008 by gaia.plateau

[mathuv]

Hey I have to defend Gabe here. Gabe does not think Mush is the Devil. Everyone knows Neal from the Devils Playground (AKA Wolrd Hookah) is the Devil.

See I can laugh and have fun. I just choose to do it rolling aorund in money normally. lol

lol you have a point there....wish I could roll around in money

[Huskysibe]

Cant Exotic Imports be sued for Consumer Fraud or false advertising. Come on, you cant go around threatenng to sue someone for expressing their opinion about your product. Hell theres magazines, web sites and TV shows dedicated to consumer protection that does reviews on products and grades them. No one gets sued for their Yahoo restaurant reviews. Geez this is getting out of hand.

[JtowninAtown]

Cant Exotic Imports be sued for Consumer Fraud or false advertising. Come on, you cant go around threatenng to sue someone for expressing their opinion about your product. Hell theres magazines, web sites and TV shows dedicated to consumer protection that does reviews on products and grades them. No one gets sued for their Yahoo restaurant reviews. Geez this is getting out of hand.

Plus, they should have paid more attention to the quality of their products before shipping them out to the public. And as for legalities, I almost pooped myself laughing when he said he would take mush to court for slandering his product. Isn't that what sales is all about? Telling everyone why one product is better than the other? It seems that this guy made a stupid, incompetent, and unprofessional mistake. It seems to me Gabe should not be a business owner if he doesn't want to take care of his customers and instead blame them for his product's demise (NOT EVERYONE WAS TRYING TO GET FREE PRODUCT).

[zeppyrkr]

Sorry to say and don't hate me, this was a personally situation i think they should have been working out still, i don't think this little fight should have been so public, i just received some perfect exoticas and until i get bad ones im going to be buying them. and with as much power as mush has he can really ruin a product easily but is it illegal i dont think so, i think you should keep this private mush and work it out.

[clickhea]

hes a cry baby, did you see him in the last thread


WAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH WAHHHHHHHHH dont make fun of my coals, wahhhhhhhhh they are the best coals on the market!

acts like hes 12 years old

id never buy a product off that company ever again, the box of exotic as i had were crap and i never received any replacements... gotta love wasting $'


then he was claiming he was logging everyones ip on this forum , which was horse shit. way to make your self look even stupider. Edited January 19, 2008 by clickhea

[BillBrasky]

I agree with zeppykr. This should have stayed behind the scenes. There was little reason for anyone to post the PMs or out of forum emails from Exotica. I use the coals, they work great and I plan to use them from now on.

[clickhea]

who cares if its out in the open, everyone knows the coals did not live up to the hype.

this happens all the time with products, its nothing new.

[RayVer]

I don't think he's whining... He's defending his company. Wouldn't you do the same if you had a company? Ofcourse you would it only makes sence.

PR is one of the most important things in a business. Defending a product to the fullest is top priority.

Also... Think of it the other way.. Mush is defending his business. He got bad coals...lost a few hundred and isn't happy.

hes a cry baby, did you see him in the last thread


WAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH WAHHHHHHHHH dont make fun of my coals, wahhhhhhhhh they are the best coals on the market!

acts like hes 12 years old

id never buy a product off that company ever again, the box of exotic as i had were crap and i never received any replacements... gotta love wasting $'


then he was claiming he was logging everyones ip on this forum , which was horse shit. way to make your self look even stupider.

[BillBrasky]

I think the coals lived up. My box is fine. They break easily, light easily and don't roll.

[clickhea]

ive never seen a vendor of any kind come into a forum and threaten the forum members

nor have i seen any vendors cry the way he did


theres way to "defend" your company without coming across like a 12 year old girl

[mathuv]

agreed with RayVer 100%. When someone ordered off my site and received an ever so SLIGHTLY damaged good (bit of plastic was chipped) i offered to replace it for him but he didnt mind. but then sometimes things can go overboard. my friend had a flaw in his guitar, he sent it back and got this "Dear XYZ, we are sorry but that is a known defect in this particular guitar. We cannot replace/compensate you in any way. We regret any inconvenience. ABC guitars are the best in the world." (not joking about the "are best in the world bit" in the letter...)

[Milk With Pulp]

What I don't understand is why everyone is trying to defend mush or gabriel, if you like his product, keep buying them, NOTHING is always going to be perfect and if they had a mishap and didn't notice the coals were bad, oh well, big fucking deal, I am sorry but if you like the coals, keep buying them, don't side with someone else and their opinion, be the individual you are, buy the product if you like, so if somebody else buys different coals and likes them you are going to swap and be a tool, some people have beef with him, stop posting on the forum and just settle it out in Private Messages, this is a waste of a topic.

We have no honest to god truth on who is lying and who is not, we want to beleive in both, but hey one person could be one hell of a liar and just trying to get a few extra coals on the deal or the dealer might be trying to save his ass I have no clue but for god sakes, stop trying to bash on somebody who has a good product, AKA shisha, is it all perfect, HELL NO, some shisha from the same company guarantee it to be fresh and bla bla bla, I don't see you bashing them when your shisha taske like ass mixed with a little bit of dog shit, you don't make a post bashing the company, but letting people know there is a bad batch, not everything is going to be flawless, okay this guy has a few problems with a few members, but when you all side up on one side, what the hell is point, this forum isn't to bash it's to talk about hookah, meet new people, make friends, you are gonna all DEMAND new coals when it costs money, he screwed up and he could send it to the people being honest of the forums, but let me ask you, HOW MANY OF YOU SAID YOU GOT BAD COALS AND DIDNT BUY THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE since he offered to send people out free coals, we are human we are CHEAP ASSES we like to get free shit whenever we can, so don't bullshit to me on the boyscout honor shit saying you all honestly bought exoticas, I find that the be a LIE.

I am not here to protect either of you, but come on, actually look at the damn story, stop siding with admin with powers, if you see it his way, end this stupid ass thread and settle it like big boys, he is posting to aggrivate the dealer more and more, when he could just reply back and settle it like an actual man, HE is asking for publicity to make it seem worse then it really is.


Kind of sad to see how mature most of you really are, pretty damn sad, a dealer who sells QUALITY products, has a big batch that was a big fuck up, didnt catch it tell sent out, goes uh ohhhhh, posts a thread after people received the, APOLOGIZED and on top of that REPLACED the coals to MORE then individuals who purchased them. He could of handled it in a better manner, but he tried to get coals out ASAP to the people who CLAIM for bad ones, so to me, I see it as people on here siding with a admin instantly, for ignorant reasons at that.


All I will leave this as, if you like the product, don't change it for a mishap with a admin who doesn't like him, thats good for him, let him buy other coals, if you appreciate the coals, i won't stop purchasing them, basically it's a big sh*tf*ck and it isn't right. Edited January 19, 2008 by Milk With Pulp

[SafeSearchOff]

lawl. i WANT to see this taken to court. just so the judge can look gabe in the eye and be like... ARE YOU MENTALLY INCOMPETENT, SON?


seriously. yeh, mush was a mod and now is admin, but making him admin doesnt take away his opinions. he's allow to say what he thinks of products. if you sent him bad coals, he's allowed to verbalize it. and since he has no direct association with Nour coals, he's allowed to say he thinks theyre better, as a consumer.

As for gabe getting banned, it was completely justified. Venders ARE NOT allowed to post about any product they have outside of their own thread. That is exactly why jandr was banned as well. If some1 asks where i can get xxx, you CANNOT plug your product! If you want them to know you do, do what H-L used to do, and post a list of sites where they can get it other than yours.



Are you related to John Kerry? Because you changed your facts so many times in that email...

[zeppyrkr]

but look how many people immediately are 100% against exocticas now? mush has tons of power i just hope people are still giving the product a chance, as ive said im buying them until i get some bad ones, i like them alot! i hope they can work things out, the court threat is retarded come on gabe i love your product but you are acting childish. Edited January 19, 2008 by zeppyrkr

[Snoopy1966]

HOW MANY OF YOU SAID YOU GOT BAD COALS AND DIDNT BUY THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE since he offered to send people out free coals, we are human we are CHEAP ASSES we like to get free shit whenever we can, so don't bullshit to me on the boyscout honor shit saying you all honestly bought exoticas, I find that the be a LIE.

Well my friend, I have receipts, pictures and the bad boxes of coals still and no replacements. One thing I will make very clear now. We are all accountable of what we say. If I lie about this, I will have the anger of God upon me. I am afraid of telling lies and God and the punishment you will get for this. You do not need a good memory if you tell the truth.

Also I am not immediately against the product because of what someone says. Like I said I will still buy them, only from HS and HC where I got good coals. If those are bad, that will be it for me.

[zeppyrkr]

HOW MANY OF YOU SAID YOU GOT BAD COALS AND DIDNT BUY THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE since he offered to send people out free coals, we are human we are CHEAP ASSES we like to get free shit whenever we can, so don't bullshit to me on the boyscout honor shit saying you all honestly bought exoticas, I find that the be a LIE.

Well my friend, I have receipts, pictures and no replacements. One thing I will make very clear now. We are all accountable of what we say. If I lie about this, I will have the anger of God upon me. I am afraid of telling lies and God and the punishment you will get for this. You do not need a good memory if you tell the truth.

sorry to say snoop there are bad people out there ...