A Peek Into Lounge Ownership...

[mix_tape]

I just checked out your website, looks pretty awesome.

Must be a lot of work to run but I bet its worth it.

[mushrat]

I just checked out your website, looks pretty awesome.

Must be a lot of work to run but I bet its worth it.

It is, I work 6 days a week, usually around 80 hours a week. I am slowly building up a core on Minions (as my employees call themselves) and hope to be able to take some time off soon. But Generally I'm there from open to close, every night. I have some wonderful people working for me, some were friends before hand, some were regular customers who expressed and interest, and they are able to cover the place when I've had emergencies to tend to. Don't know what I'd do without them.

[mix_tape]

Thats what makes places like yours better to do go, like a little family. I like the look of your place, looks comfy and just a great place to chill with friends and smoke. I wish you were closer to where I am hah.

[mushrat]

Thats what makes places like yours better to do go, like a little family. I like the look of your place, looks comfy and just a great place to chill with friends and smoke. I wish you were closer to where I am hah.

Thanks!

Ya, It may be a while before i get one open in Alberta...sorry man...

[Canon]

when i go to ur hookah lounge you better recognize me, if you dont then i will sit and chat and ask noob questions until i cant help it anymore and tell you who i am.

[mushrat]

Ya gotta actually GET here first. And believe me..noob questions i'm used to. You know how many people a day think the flavour is in the charcoal I put on top???

But hey, I'm also there to help people understand hookahs better, so i don't mind taking a few minutes to let people know how everything works...

[Canon]

im going to bomb you with questions. but ppl think that the flavor is in the coal aswell when im smoking.. which makes me wonder... who in their right mind would smoke flavored coals?

[mix_tape]

I never thought that when I first went to the hookah bar but then again I had no idea what to expect and the guy who helped us sat down and showed us how everything worked, how to pack the bowl, how to put the coal on and how to start it.

[mushrat]

im going to bomb you with questions. but ppl think that the flavor is in the coal aswell when im smoking.. which makes me wonder... who in their right mind would smoke flavored coals?

Actually they make flavoured coals. I've tried grape flaoured before. Scary shit.

[sir atherton III]

i'm opening up a small hookah venue in texas and need some help with initial budget calculations-

assuming 20-30 hookahs in operation (and assuming a relatively slow start), how many grams of tobacco and how many pieces of coal would be a minimally sufficient supply for a month?

any help is appreciated

How many hookahs per day is what you should think about. Figure an average weekday and then an average weekend. Are you going to have a tiered menu or all one price? Regular Mya bowls? Phunnels if you use Tangiers? What type of coals? Finger coals, quicklites, japs? Hours of operation? Unlimited coal refills? A little more detail would be necessary before I can give you any sort of meaningful answer.

initially, you'll have to excuse my ignorance regarding the business as i have no tangible frame of reference or guidance on the technical aspects.
anyhow, i'm calculating a realistically slow start, so mon-thur (8pm - 12am), let's say i sell a total of 20 hookahs total. fri/sat (8-2am), let's assume a total of 40 hookahs. (are these figures reasonable in a slow start scenario?)

additionally, let's assume a very simplistic set-up, meaning everything is one price, regular mya bowls (do these hold an average of 5 g. per?), unlimited quicklighting coals (i'd hate to compromise taste in the beginning, but i'll have minimal staff in the outset and i figure this would be most efficient).

thanks

Ok, actually those are probably good numbers to start with, depending on the size of your place, the numbe rof people you allow on a hookah at one time, and of course the number of hookahs you have to serve with.

My place seats 22 legally, though I know i sometimes go over that. I have 13 hookahs to bring out, up from an initial 11. I believe the mya bowls hold 15-20 g. depending on how you pack them. and a standard tub is 250 g. I used to get kilo buckets but they really arent worth the little bit of money you save. so 160 hookahs per week = 3200 g. Now add in a bit of wasteage. say 100 g woth of stuff on the counter, floor, etc. so 3300 g. per week. So we Have 12.8 250g tubs per week or 51.2 tubs a month. Someone check the math for me...

Now you have to figure some flavours are going to sell better than others, so you'll need extras of those and fewer of soem of the good but less popular brands/flavours.

So..lets now consider supply. You are in textas, as is Social Smoke, I'd give Ali a call and talk to him about prices and such. This also means that you are lucky enough that you should be able to get restocked from them in 1-2 days. So, you don't need to do what I first did, living on the east coast before we got a distributor in Charlotte, and order a bunch of stuff and then wait a week for UPS to deliver it, and have to plan a week ahead for re-supply. If you run short, you call and 2 days later you have the goods. Which is great.

If I were you, I'd say get 6-8 250's of each flavour you want to carry. Get 2 500g cartons of the 50g small boxes for sale and to give away with your hookahs if you are selling them as well.

as for coals. I personally would rather be closed than use quick lights. They are going to cost you more per hookah than say finger coals, people will notice that you are useing them, and I'd just say get a hot plate, a few cast iron couldrons, and do it up right. You may re-coal more often, but thats how you build your rappor with you customers. The place will bring them in, how you and your staff interact with them will keep them coming back. Trust me on this one. But to figure coals in your costs, see how many it takes for you and say 2 friends to smoke for 1 1/2 hours. then multiply that by 160 and you'll have how many coals you need per week.

Do you have a tax ID number yet? OPnce you get that, you'll be able to talk with the supply companies and they will give you wholesale prices, which we don't discuss here.

That help?

(pretty soon I'm gonna start charging for this.... )

mushrat, that helps tremendously- i was contemplating picking up an initial tobacco quantity close to your suggestion of the 6 or so 250g cartons, but i second guessed it- the thought of potential undersupply is scary, especially when you're making your first impressions (and you're right 1-2 day turnaround for shipment lessens the burden to be well stocked at all times). man, i had no idea about the coals, though. i assumed the quicklights were more cost effective, but the hot-plate/couldron is a great idea. (and 160 hookahs? did you mean to assume 60 a week?)

i haven't gotten the tax i.d. yet- i'm still figuring out whether to form an LLC or an S-corp, but you're right, wholesale purchase is key. it'll be interesting trying to weed out some of the more shady wholesalers/suppliers. i've read up on some online vendors, but i'm probing into what texas wholesale scene has to offer. my goal is to find some mid-grade hookahs and eventually upgrade when the money's there, and my general thinking is to try to find everything locally.

i realize that a lot of this stuff you inevitably figure out as you run the business. it's just difficult to estimate certain quantities and numbers prior to opening. i'm glad, however, that some of my initial numbers were reasonable, but more importantly, that i have access to invaluable advice from individuals such as yourself.


thanks again

[Dom]

the more i read from this, the more i want to open up a lounge in my home town back in Texas. it sounds like a great challenge and an even greater opportunity. i know a guy who is my age (23) and he owns his own lounge and hookah store. freakin' amazing. if he can do it, then who's to say i can't do it? and it's threads like these that help me do it. thanks for this thread, guys.


BTW, i'd like to encourage everyone to read this post:
http://www.hookahforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18937
it's for my wife's birthday. i'm trying to get as many posts on there as possible. thanks.

Hell man, I am fricking 40 and I started this one with never having opened or run a business before. If my ass can do it, anyone can. You just gotta be real smart..oh ya..unless you are REAL lucky, it's not going to go over well with the wife..trust me.

lol. it's funny, i talked to my wife about it and she kinda looked sidways at me and rolled her eyes a little. haha. but she finally said that she'll support me and my every dream even if she disagrees with it. she's great.

thanks for the support, Mush. i think i'll keep all this in mind for whenever i get out of the navy (in 3 years).

[EternalSoil]

Actually they make flavoured coals. I've tried grape flaoured before. Scary shit.

You're supposed to eat them...

[mushrat]

i'm opening up a small hookah venue in texas and need some help with initial budget calculations-

assuming 20-30 hookahs in operation (and assuming a relatively slow start), how many grams of tobacco and how many pieces of coal would be a minimally sufficient supply for a month?

any help is appreciated

How many hookahs per day is what you should think about. Figure an average weekday and then an average weekend. Are you going to have a tiered menu or all one price? Regular Mya bowls? Phunnels if you use Tangiers? What type of coals? Finger coals, quicklites, japs? Hours of operation? Unlimited coal refills? A little more detail would be necessary before I can give you any sort of meaningful answer.

initially, you'll have to excuse my ignorance regarding the business as i have no tangible frame of reference or guidance on the technical aspects.
anyhow, i'm calculating a realistically slow start, so mon-thur (8pm - 12am), let's say i sell a total of 20 hookahs total. fri/sat (8-2am), let's assume a total of 40 hookahs. (are these figures reasonable in a slow start scenario?)

additionally, let's assume a very simplistic set-up, meaning everything is one price, regular mya bowls (do these hold an average of 5 g. per?), unlimited quicklighting coals (i'd hate to compromise taste in the beginning, but i'll have minimal staff in the outset and i figure this would be most efficient).

thanks

Ok, actually those are probably good numbers to start with, depending on the size of your place, the numbe rof people you allow on a hookah at one time, and of course the number of hookahs you have to serve with.

My place seats 22 legally, though I know i sometimes go over that. I have 13 hookahs to bring out, up from an initial 11. I believe the mya bowls hold 15-20 g. depending on how you pack them. and a standard tub is 250 g. I used to get kilo buckets but they really arent worth the little bit of money you save. so 160 hookahs per week = 3200 g. Now add in a bit of wasteage. say 100 g woth of stuff on the counter, floor, etc. so 3300 g. per week. So we Have 12.8 250g tubs per week or 51.2 tubs a month. Someone check the math for me...

Now you have to figure some flavours are going to sell better than others, so you'll need extras of those and fewer of soem of the good but less popular brands/flavours.

So..lets now consider supply. You are in textas, as is Social Smoke, I'd give Ali a call and talk to him about prices and such. This also means that you are lucky enough that you should be able to get restocked from them in 1-2 days. So, you don't need to do what I first did, living on the east coast before we got a distributor in Charlotte, and order a bunch of stuff and then wait a week for UPS to deliver it, and have to plan a week ahead for re-supply. If you run short, you call and 2 days later you have the goods. Which is great.

If I were you, I'd say get 6-8 250's of each flavour you want to carry. Get 2 500g cartons of the 50g small boxes for sale and to give away with your hookahs if you are selling them as well.

as for coals. I personally would rather be closed than use quick lights. They are going to cost you more per hookah than say finger coals, people will notice that you are useing them, and I'd just say get a hot plate, a few cast iron couldrons, and do it up right. You may re-coal more often, but thats how you build your rappor with you customers. The place will bring them in, how you and your staff interact with them will keep them coming back. Trust me on this one. But to figure coals in your costs, see how many it takes for you and say 2 friends to smoke for 1 1/2 hours. then multiply that by 160 and you'll have how many coals you need per week.

Do you have a tax ID number yet? OPnce you get that, you'll be able to talk with the supply companies and they will give you wholesale prices, which we don't discuss here.

That help?

(pretty soon I'm gonna start charging for this.... )

mushrat, that helps tremendously- i was contemplating picking up an initial tobacco quantity close to your suggestion of the 6 or so 250g cartons, but i second guessed it- the thought of potential undersupply is scary, especially when you're making your first impressions (and you're right 1-2 day turnaround for shipment lessens the burden to be well stocked at all times). man, i had no idea about the coals, though. i assumed the quicklights were more cost effective, but the hot-plate/couldron is a great idea. (and 160 hookahs? did you mean to assume 60 a week?)

i haven't gotten the tax i.d. yet- i'm still figuring out whether to form an LLC or an S-corp, but you're right, wholesale purchase is key. it'll be interesting trying to weed out some of the more shady wholesalers/suppliers. i've read up on some online vendors, but i'm probing into what texas wholesale scene has to offer. my goal is to find some mid-grade hookahs and eventually upgrade when the money's there, and my general thinking is to try to find everything locally.

i realize that a lot of this stuff you inevitably figure out as you run the business. it's just difficult to estimate certain quantities and numbers prior to opening. i'm glad, however, that some of my initial numbers were reasonable, but more importantly, that i have access to invaluable advice from individuals such as yourself.


thanks again

ah? you are thinking 20 hookahs total monday-thursday??? I think you are underestimating quite a bit. That's only 5 hookahs per day. You'll never survive that way. Hell, I get tables of 4 that all want their OWN hookahs. I'd say the way I figured it, 20 per day mon-thurs and 40 per day fri and sat is more reasonable honestly. I could check my old register tapes and give you an idea of how many hookahs i pack in my little place in a week.You'll be astounded.

Are you looking at a middle eastern or mondern look?

Consider Mya QT's for your lounge hookahs. They are relativly inexpensive, won't tip over ( a big plus), and since they retail for $40 bucks it's easy to sell them to people since they are already smoking one and know how well they work in general. I sell hookahs ranging from $40 QT's and Solos to $120 ones i don't think have names from Mya.

I'm an S-Corp. Get a software package called "quicken legal business pro." It'll cost you about $100 bucks but has every form, federal and state by state, you'll need to start a business, buy stuff, borrow money, set up partnerships, pay employees, the works. Its easy to use and I brought the finished forms to a lawyer to review, which only cost me 160 bucks as opposed ot having the lawyer draw them up, which would have cost a few grand.

The EIN you can get instantly on the IRS web site. And while local suppliers are great, remember, they already paid wholesale, and are marking it up so they can make money...go with a wholesaler like Social Smoke and only go local if you run out of something.

[mushrat]

the more i read from this, the more i want to open up a lounge in my home town back in Texas. it sounds like a great challenge and an even greater opportunity. i know a guy who is my age (23) and he owns his own lounge and hookah store. freakin' amazing. if he can do it, then who's to say i can't do it? and it's threads like these that help me do it. thanks for this thread, guys.


BTW, i'd like to encourage everyone to read this post:
http://www.hookahforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18937
it's for my wife's birthday. i'm trying to get as many posts on there as possible. thanks.

Hell man, I am fricking 40 and I started this one with never having opened or run a business before. If my ass can do it, anyone can. You just gotta be real smart..oh ya..unless you are REAL lucky, it's not going to go over well with the wife..trust me.

lol. it's funny, i talked to my wife about it and she kinda looked sidways at me and rolled her eyes a little. haha. but she finally said that she'll support me and my every dream even if she disagrees with it. she's great.

thanks for the support, Mush. i think i'll keep all this in mind for whenever i get out of the navy (in 3 years).

My wife's only words to me were: "Ok. But you BETTER make it work."

[mushrat]

Actually they make flavoured coals. I've tried grape flaoured before. Scary shit.

You're supposed to eat them...

Probably would have tasted better in the long run....

[sir atherton III]

i'm opening up a small hookah venue in texas and need some help with initial budget calculations-

assuming 20-30 hookahs in operation (and assuming a relatively slow start), how many grams of tobacco and how many pieces of coal would be a minimally sufficient supply for a month?

any help is appreciated

How many hookahs per day is what you should think about. Figure an average weekday and then an average weekend. Are you going to have a tiered menu or all one price? Regular Mya bowls? Phunnels if you use Tangiers? What type of coals? Finger coals, quicklites, japs? Hours of operation? Unlimited coal refills? A little more detail would be necessary before I can give you any sort of meaningful answer.

initially, you'll have to excuse my ignorance regarding the business as i have no tangible frame of reference or guidance on the technical aspects.
anyhow, i'm calculating a realistically slow start, so mon-thur (8pm - 12am), let's say i sell a total of 20 hookahs total. fri/sat (8-2am), let's assume a total of 40 hookahs. (are these figures reasonable in a slow start scenario?)

additionally, let's assume a very simplistic set-up, meaning everything is one price, regular mya bowls (do these hold an average of 5 g. per?), unlimited quicklighting coals (i'd hate to compromise taste in the beginning, but i'll have minimal staff in the outset and i figure this would be most efficient).

thanks

Ok, actually those are probably good numbers to start with, depending on the size of your place, the numbe rof people you allow on a hookah at one time, and of course the number of hookahs you have to serve with.

My place seats 22 legally, though I know i sometimes go over that. I have 13 hookahs to bring out, up from an initial 11. I believe the mya bowls hold 15-20 g. depending on how you pack them. and a standard tub is 250 g. I used to get kilo buckets but they really arent worth the little bit of money you save. so 160 hookahs per week = 3200 g. Now add in a bit of wasteage. say 100 g woth of stuff on the counter, floor, etc. so 3300 g. per week. So we Have 12.8 250g tubs per week or 51.2 tubs a month. Someone check the math for me...

Now you have to figure some flavours are going to sell better than others, so you'll need extras of those and fewer of soem of the good but less popular brands/flavours.

So..lets now consider supply. You are in textas, as is Social Smoke, I'd give Ali a call and talk to him about prices and such. This also means that you are lucky enough that you should be able to get restocked from them in 1-2 days. So, you don't need to do what I first did, living on the east coast before we got a distributor in Charlotte, and order a bunch of stuff and then wait a week for UPS to deliver it, and have to plan a week ahead for re-supply. If you run short, you call and 2 days later you have the goods. Which is great.

If I were you, I'd say get 6-8 250's of each flavour you want to carry. Get 2 500g cartons of the 50g small boxes for sale and to give away with your hookahs if you are selling them as well.

as for coals. I personally would rather be closed than use quick lights. They are going to cost you more per hookah than say finger coals, people will notice that you are useing them, and I'd just say get a hot plate, a few cast iron couldrons, and do it up right. You may re-coal more often, but thats how you build your rappor with you customers. The place will bring them in, how you and your staff interact with them will keep them coming back. Trust me on this one. But to figure coals in your costs, see how many it takes for you and say 2 friends to smoke for 1 1/2 hours. then multiply that by 160 and you'll have how many coals you need per week.

Do you have a tax ID number yet? OPnce you get that, you'll be able to talk with the supply companies and they will give you wholesale prices, which we don't discuss here.

That help?

(pretty soon I'm gonna start charging for this.... )

mushrat, that helps tremendously- i was contemplating picking up an initial tobacco quantity close to your suggestion of the 6 or so 250g cartons, but i second guessed it- the thought of potential undersupply is scary, especially when you're making your first impressions (and you're right 1-2 day turnaround for shipment lessens the burden to be well stocked at all times). man, i had no idea about the coals, though. i assumed the quicklights were more cost effective, but the hot-plate/couldron is a great idea. (and 160 hookahs? did you mean to assume 60 a week?)

i haven't gotten the tax i.d. yet- i'm still figuring out whether to form an LLC or an S-corp, but you're right, wholesale purchase is key. it'll be interesting trying to weed out some of the more shady wholesalers/suppliers. i've read up on some online vendors, but i'm probing into what texas wholesale scene has to offer. my goal is to find some mid-grade hookahs and eventually upgrade when the money's there, and my general thinking is to try to find everything locally.

i realize that a lot of this stuff you inevitably figure out as you run the business. it's just difficult to estimate certain quantities and numbers prior to opening. i'm glad, however, that some of my initial numbers were reasonable, but more importantly, that i have access to invaluable advice from individuals such as yourself.


thanks again

ah? you are thinking 20 hookahs total monday-thursday??? I think you are underestimating quite a bit. That's only 5 hookahs per day. You'll never survive that way. Hell, I get tables of 4 that all want their OWN hookahs. I'd say the way I figured it, 20 per day mon-thurs and 40 per day fri and sat is more reasonable honestly. I could check my old register tapes and give you an idea of how many hookahs i pack in my little place in a week.You'll be astounded.

Are you looking at a middle eastern or mondern look?

Consider Mya QT's for your lounge hookahs. They are relativly inexpensive, won't tip over ( a big plus), and since they retail for $40 bucks it's easy to sell them to people since they are already smoking one and know how well they work in general. I sell hookahs ranging from $40 QT's and Solos to $120 ones i don't think have names from Mya.

I'm an S-Corp. Get a software package called "quicken legal business pro." It'll cost you about $100 bucks but has every form, federal and state by state, you'll need to start a business, buy stuff, borrow money, set up partnerships, pay employees, the works. Its easy to use and I brought the finished forms to a lawyer to review, which only cost me 160 bucks as opposed ot having the lawyer draw them up, which would have cost a few grand.

The EIN you can get instantly on the IRS web site. And while local suppliers are great, remember, they already paid wholesale, and are marking it up so they can make money...go with a wholesaler like Social Smoke and only go local if you run out of something.

hah, i guess my conservative estimates were a bit too conservative. it seems that a common mistake with new business owners would be underestimating initial costs and/or overestimating initial sales.

you pose an interesting question, though, whether i'm going for authentic or modern concept. i think the way the hookah is retro-fitting into various cultures is astounding. this evolutionary trend, to me, almost dictates that in the u.s., like anywhere else, the hookah will inevitably morph into a unique aspect of 'american' culture. i can argue for maintaining traditional hookah, but for me, hookah (along with the obvious joys of smoking) is a means to catalyze interaction/discussion- something drastically needed to counteract the isolation shoved on us in our country.

business is also business, however, and i'm curious about public perception regarding the hookahs you use. from your shop photos, it seems that you draw a substantial college/'non-traditional' hookah client base. in houston, there is a huge immigrant population accustomed to traditional hookah venues. being a first generation product of an immigrant family, i'm naturally drawn to cater to both traditional and perhaps more importantly, non-traditional customers. my question, however, is how do customers perceive smoking out of smaller sized, modern hookahs? (and the QTs you mentioned, i saw the 13" on social smoke's website, is that the size i saw in your photos? what's the minimum acceptable size you could give to a customer?) i can guess that non-traditional smokers would be more receptive to these hookahs, but what about traditional smokers? have you encountered any backlash/hesitance from such customers when they're given modern hookahs?

you see, in houston, the main venues offer only traditional hookahs (despite the fact that some are phasing in acrylic, using self-starting coal, and often times, it tastes like crap) so if i were to offer modern hookahs, it can go one of two ways: complete loss of the traditional smoker client base or it could catch on as a fresh alternative. the answer may be to get both- but it would seem odd serving certain hookahs to certain customers. i get the feeling that traditional smokers put an unfounded emphasis on the hookah's outward appearance- meaning it has to be big, even if it's acrylic or poorly constructed.

and you currently have 13 hookahs in operation? what's a good method to calculate that initial stock- calculate your maximum capacity, and assume 3 or 4 per hookah?
were you ever short with your initial stock of 11?

hope all is well-

[mushrat]

So, we thought we had a new location scouted out in boone, nc. My man met with the realtor, took pictures, all is groovy. We were gioing out there ourselves sunday to see it in person..and we just got a call today. The owner of the building, who is apparently going to be running for public office, doesn't want to rent it to us. So much for Boone being a liberal laid back kinda place...ah well, their loss...we'll find another building.

[Canon]

on a better note.. 3 posts away from 8k..

[Stuie]

not to jack the thread but don't people realize how to edit their quotes so when they quote someone i don't have to scroll for 10 minutes... or am I missing some kind of hidden contest?

[*HOT&SMOKING*]

on a better note.. 3 posts away from 8k..

2 now for mush!!! congrats when you there!!!

-H&S

[mushrat]

So, you all think you got it bad when they send the wrong tobacco or pack of coals? Imagine ordering 2 CASES of Belgian Natural Disks, running out before they get there and having to quick order a case of nours from someplace closer, only to find the original place sent you 2 cases of QUICKLIGHT Belgians? Now we have to play call tage, send out several boxes expedited, and the rest ground, hope they get here again soon, game.

Again, for those of you thinking of running one of these places, any problem that ticks you off when ordering personally, imagine that happening for your entire shop.

On a brighter note, I'm going to get a picture and a short write up in the University's magazine, The Blue and the White. I'm going to be in an article about where all new students should go on the street. I'm in there with some real Chapel Hill institutions and am honoured to be included in their midst. A copy is going to be given to every incomming student who goes through orientation. Remember, the best kind of publicity is FREE publicity.

[Texico]

Damn, nice Mush. I'll have to try to make it out there sometime. My stepmom is a UNC Chapel Hill Alum. Maybe next time I'm visting my father and her I could coerce them into taking a trip back up there (she originally wanted me to apply to UNC). I'd love to see the place and maybe learn how to pack Tangiers from a pro; it's too fickle for me to get it right all the time.

[ganesha]

Mush-
What is your clientele mix??? I just found a spot that I am currently negotiating with the landlord. (They are a little hesitant because they have misconceptions about hookahs, but they are coming around.) It's about 200 miles from Chapel Hill in Rock Hill SC. It's within walking distance from Winthrop University (in fact across the street are 2 dorms.) There's a decent sized middle eastern community in the area so I was thinking of offering traditional flavors. But I also think most of the customers will be college students so I was thinking of also offering modern flavors... Maybe having 2 separate smoking rooms one decorated with an arabic theme, and one that is more "club" style.. I'll figure that out though once I get the lease signed...