Can You Believe These Fucking People?

[ZenSilk]

Someone earlier mentioned the idea of being born 'gay'

I have yet to see convicing documentation of this idea. I suspect in fact that it's quite plausable that enviroment plays just an equal part as genetics.

However we do see evidence in nature of same-sex coupling Blue whales, Harbour seals are two that spring to mind.

We should be tolerant of other people's lifestyle choices - We do not have to like it or agree with it. But tolerance is just good manners. But that also requires 'both sides' of the fence to engage in tolerant activity.

Gay pride parades do not help.
This baptist church do not help.

They are, in my eyes, as bad as each other.

JD

I really don't understand how anybody could not accept it and agree with it. I firmly believe that being gay is not a lifestyle choice and as a hetrosexual guy i have absolutely no problem whatsoever with homosexuals. What they get up to is none of my buisness. If they want to kiss in public who cares, does it effect you? I couldn't care less about peoples sexual preferances. People are born gay and are made to feel like shit for the rest of their life as people don't "agree" with it. What's not to agree with? Poeple are born that way, it's like not agreeing with people being born white or black....it doesn't make sence.

Yes it does affect me.

Or at least [Fuck me I just know i'm going to get flamed like a double whopper with cheese] It affects my daughters.

If my children are seeing homosexual activity everywhere and men (or women) are tonguing each other and grab assing in public it creates questions from children far too young to even begin to comprehend the idea of homosexuality.

It's hard enough to steer children through puberty without explaining homosexuality. Thus I do not personally want to see it on street corners.

I give you an ad hoc example. My old employee was a lesbian, married, the whole works. BANG! 6 months later she's living with a guy and expecting a child.

She was 19 and barly had a clue what she wanted. Did she become lesbian because of some deep rooted sexual orientation or become that way because it was socially acceptable and she was looking for some other companionship or the 'gay lifestyle' of enormous social magnitude (From what i understand).

The point I am badly making is thusly. Do what you like behind closed doors, but what you do in public affects everyone.

I feel that I should be able to cover myself in green jelly and walk nakid whilst whacking off down the highstreet.

Hardly ok is it?

JD

Yeah.. But some teenage girls are truly stupid. How about those "Bi-sexual" stages they go through? What the hell?
But it is just a stage. Homosexuality is not a stage, it may or may not be a life choice. I have been told, by gay men, who came and talked to our class in highschool, that it's not a choice. I will believe homosexual's word over any of yours, hands down no questions asked.

You are in a way saying that the man who came to talk to us actually wanted to get beat up almost everyday in highschool? And if not getting beat up, being called "fag" and numerous slang words?

I, personally, have never seen homosexual men displaying public acts of affection ever. Here's the killer... Not even at the gay rights parade i attended. They are very humble, and very nice; very helpful when your trying to pick out nice jeans as well (i've never had so many compliments in my life).

I grab my girlfriend's ass all the time in public. I have made out with her in public. I show almost no humility in terms of affection. I have yet to see a homosexual show anything other than a simple hand-holding. If you are against holding hands... you need to learn from the Buddhists.

Maybe over-seas Gays are a bit different....If JD has seen all that happening. Edited February 7, 2008 by ZenSilk

[Bryantos]

I have been told, by gay men, who came and talked to our class in highschool, that it's not a choice. I will believe homosexual's word over any of yours, hands down no questions asked.

And the reason for this is...? I wouldn't trust a priest just because hes a priest. "I didn't touch that boy!"

Lie.

You stuffed him like a thanksgiving turkey.

Anywho, you're basically saying girls go through "bi-sexual" stages, but guys don't? How do you know those "gay" guys in highschool you're talking about arn't married with their own kids right now? Even if they're not, guys go through phases also, sexual or not.

If JD doesn't want his kids exposed to homosexuality, and I probably wouldn't either due to the fact that I may want some grand kiddies I can spoil someday, then thats how he wants to raise his kids. Their is no wrong way. I'm going to beat the mess out of my kids. (That last sentence is to be taken LIGHTLY)

[Johnny_D]

Zen :-
1. I don't like the inference that one's daughter is stupid.
2. What "Bi Sexual stages"
3. Since when have you been a teenage girl? [Outside of any personal fantasies]

Thanks Bryantos for a resonsoned response. I suspect Zen is just trying to tweak my balls. God help any offspring he decides to have.

JD - Pissed off.

[MikeMike]

Zen :-
1. I don't like the inference that one's daughter is stupid.
2. What "Bi Sexual stages"
3. Since when have you been a teenage girl? [Outside of any personal fantasies]

Thanks Bryantos for a resonsoned response. I suspect Zen is just trying to tweak my balls. God help any offspring he decides to have.

JD - Pissed off.

I think he means when teenage girls...don't know why he picked on girls not guys :S anyway, when some go through the stage of am i straight, gay, bi or whatever when their hormones are all over and they're confused about what they like etc. The rest of what you said Zen i don't agree with, believing a guy who's gay over anyone here just because they're gay? Orange logic if you ask me, not got a clue about what the hell that is supposed to mean, you should believe someone based on who they are, not their sexual orientation.

[ZenSilk]

No no no, I said some teenage girls are truly stupid. - When i was in HS, theer were FAR too many girls into being "Bisexual". Why? For attention of course. They got the attention they wanted until there was a group of girls that said that, and soon a clique of girls that said that. And this wasn't in just where i was going, this was in every school. Were they really Bi? Sure, for a period in their lives. Are they still? No, none of them are. At all.

The men who came to talk to us were not in highschool. They were men who were in their early 30's. Each one told us what they had to go through. And they were so humble in their speech. One of the dudes in my class asked "What do you think about Gay Marriage?". One of them replied "We don't want to be married, we could care less about that. We just don't want to be persecuted for they way we were born."

These men did NOT choose to be gay. Do you think they WANT to come out and tell their parents "Mom, Dad, I'm gay." ??? No, they fucking don't. Do they want to keep it from everybody? YES! Why? Because people persecute them for something they have NO CONTROL OVER. Would they rather be straight?? Early on in their lives, YES! They would much rather be straight. But they accept the fact that they aren't and they never will be. Believing that it's a choice is saying that they want to be beat up, tortured, verbaly assaulted and mentally degraded by their peers. They aren't masochists, they are normal people.

I may have a strong view on this because one of my best friends is in fact gay. You are saying that he wanted to get jumped and beat? Sure, you just go ahead and think that. I don't view homosexuals as different than anyone else, i see them as fellow human beings. (Gang Members are the people i don't view as humans).

I take offense whenever i hear anything anti-gay, or that i believe is a terribly mistaken view. Don't let your petty religious views dominate your way of thinking.


JD- In no way was i personally attacking you, i was simply making a point about teenage girls and "Bisexualism". I have never seen a boy go through this phase, so i have no ground to talk about that point of view. But i know the hardships Homosexuals face in this world, and these hardships are all because of people not being tolerant. I didn't infer your daughter is stupid, however old she is (i think she is of a lowere age based on your post), nor did I infer you are stupid. In any way. I did say "some teenage girls are stupid" because they are. The "Bisexual stage" i referred to is described above, i have seen it and I have seen girls grow out of it, for whatever reason they got into it. I have never been a teenage girl but i have literally asked a "Bisexual" one why she was the way she was. "I don't know, I guess cause guys are turned on by that shit" was her answer. Hm...

Bruantos- I have not yet seen a guy end his "Phase" of Homosexuality, in fact they have accepted it and they are OK with it (in regards to all the people near me in age who i knew throughout and after HS). I would not like to see two gay men kissing each other, or making out, or grabbing each other's asses. But i would also, more so, not want to see some very ugly Heterosexual couple doing that exact same thing (Which i actually do see). I don't know if you watch MTV, but the show "Next" has gay dudes making out everyday. I change the channel, I don't wanna see that but i'm not going to tell them they are fags and make fun of them.
I also change the channel whenever two ugly people start to do just that. But, like i said, gays do NOT do that in Public where i live. I have yet to see guys kiss each other in public. Lesbians are more affectionate then Gay Men in public, by a long shot.

If two chicks make out, it's porno. Two guys make out and it's wrong. Huh.... And you would rather have Gay men not be affectionate in public then Women fuck horses on the Internet?? The internet is MUCh easier for your child to access, and sometimes the internet accesses your child. Yet gay men just mind their own business.

Maybe this is just where i live though? That's what i don't know about.

[Johnny_D]

I had a whole post written out. But what's the point. I'm sick of being browbeaten.

I give up.

[ZenSilk]

There are a few main reasons i believe people do not like Homosexuality, generally.

1. Misinformation, Lack of any Information: People here all kinds of stuff regarding Homosexuality, and there's no way to know how true or how false it is. Just like Hookahs. There's no strict evidence showing how bad Hookah smoking is for you. people can do tests, and generalize, and make educated guesses, but nothing has actually come out that can be trusted. People choose to believe this, however. Is it true? Maybe, but people won't listen to someone who is actually gay telling them what's up.
2. Closed-mindedness: People pick one certain view, whether it was fabricated by the media or by the individual themself, and they stick to that view like glue. They will not listen to any other aspect because they believe they are right in all ways.
3. Religion: People let their religious views control them. People cannot think for themselves anymore.

I am closed-minded. I am this way because i have many many friends who are in fact homosexual. SOme have gone through hardships i could never begin to imagine, and some have been humiliated to such an extent that they were on the verge of ending their lives to end the embarassment. NOBODY should live like this (well, ALMOST nobody). Especially people who have done NOTHING to deserve it. Have they ever robbed Molca Salsa at Gun Point? NO. Have they ever molested a little boy/girl? NO! Have they sinned against God? If your a Bible-humping Jesus lover then Yes, but to people who aren't mind controlled, NO. Have they influenced the views of your own child, so much that your child now substitutes Homosexuality for Heterosexuality and they ask you why you aren't Gay? NO! Do they make otu in the middle of public and grab each others butts and play footsie and tongue each other? NO!! Do they hold conferences secretly in order to rule the world and make everyone gay? NOT THAT I KNOW OF, BUT MOST LIKELY NOT! Are they obsessed with making Gay Marriage Legal? NO!

What do they do that personally makes you so hostile toward them? Oh yeah.. they are different form you. I get it. That's human nature though, right? Nope, that's YOUR human nature, pretty messed up Human Nature if you ask me.

For fuck's sake, they even have their own COMMUNITIES so they don't have to deal with shit from people who will give it to them.


Edit Add-On: In fact, Homosexuals act MUCH more flamboyant and open involving public affection across the Pond. This is surprising.. in a way, so my Rants can not have any significance from a UK point of view. In fact, i would feel the same way JD does if I lived over there. Edited February 7, 2008 by ZenSilk

[MikeMike]

I think i missunderstood you Zen, when you said that you would believe a gay man over anyone here i thought you meant about anything, not about the fact that they were born homosexual which btw is what i 100% believe in with the whole of my heart. You seem to have a way of expressing my views in that last post of yours, although you seem to do it in a much more outspoken way Edited February 7, 2008 by MikeMike

[St. Goodypants]

A very aggressive way of stating it, but I agree completely.

[raytrace]

WHY THE FUCK HASN'T ANYONE KILLED THESE PEOPLE?????????????????????

because they have a right to free speech (no matter how retarded it may be). having said that, i think these people have no soul. where the hell do they get the nerve to disturb funerals like that!?

Well, that's religious fanatacism by definition. They have absolutely no tolerance what-so-ever. You either follow their exact way or you are going to hell.

[Balthazar]

As long as they leave the "going to hell" part to their God I say let them have their freedom of speech and stay isolated and hated. Sad to see people like that existing in this century, but narrow-minded douche bags will always exist. Kinda feel bad for the kids, but there's not much one can do with them, really. Kinda like the girls in Preussian Blue and their fanbase from Stormfront. Sucks, but cults always do. I'd be more worried about the scientologists

[St. Goodypants]

Exactly!

Scientologists actually have power and don't waste time on idiotic, cruel, and morally profane publicity stunts! They're somewhat smart and hide what they do to con people into thinking that they're not that bad!

That's a lot scarier than idiots protesting a funeral!

[Canon]

i really do feel sorry for the younger kids. the ones less then 7 years of age (i believe there are 2)

i just hope they dont grow up to be like their parents.

there is one son who decided to "go to hell" and not follow the way of their parents. kudos for him

[.DowN.]

I guess the only thing that pisses me off about something like that, would just not be there beliefs, because unfortunately, anywhere in the world, you will have crazy fuckers everywhere, but the actual protesting they are doing. I don't understand how people in this nation live here can say anything remotely like that, well at least just about the troops. This country was built up upon being "free", and having the power to say what you want, but why do it in such a fascist way? And yeah, I agree with most of you all here, they themselves should be shipped to, hmm... maybe somewhere between Palestine and Israel, maybe they would like protesting there .

[jfeldstein]

They've got great use of "Jazz Hands"

[abeezstg]

these people came to my school to tell us that our friends that died in a fire deserved it. We kicked them straight out of our campus. It was a big victory for morality.

[Big Boss]

these people came to my school to tell us that our friends that died in a fire deserved it. We kicked them straight out of our campus. It was a big victory for morality.

They were in Omaha a while ago, when that mall shooting happened, claiming God killed the victims because they were shopping there or something. I guess God hates Von Maur, too...

[wpw36]

i remember that big they were also in hastings not to long ago protesting a soldier who died saving his buddies funeral, they about got the shit beaten out of them (they shoulda but then again that would be good people going to jail)

[sensae]

Reading through this I had a lot to say - but things seem pretty covered and I don't want to derail the conversation when it just gets back on track. All I have to say is that the earlier debate would be perfect around a hookah.

[Johnny_D]

I believe that my favourte director, Kevin Smith, is making a film surrounding Numbnut Phelps called Red State.

If it tackles anything in the vein that dogma did, it should be interesting. Phelps should be shitting himself at the idea and I think you can guarantee some serious protests from Phelps and his goat felchers society.

IMDB Link

There is nothing currently on viewaskew.com or the message boards... but it could be interesting.

[bjelder]

Hmm.

Is being Gay so right? Is social acceptance of being gay ok?

I have a hard enough time raising children through puberty without having to try and explain how homosexuality as well.

However what people do behind closed doors is there own business. I, personally, don't like how it's openly promoted as being ok. I don't spend my entire time thrusting my tongue down my wife's throat in public, why do gay people feel the need todo the same?!

I absolutely respect your opinion on this matter, but I'd like to express my own. As a gay man I hope to offer you some insight on the matter of gay PDA. While I do not participate in this... let me explain the psychological background of it. I'm not saying its ok, I just want you to hear me out.

The vast majority of homosexuals were ridiculed by friends and family upon "coming out" i.e, embracing their homosexuality and choosing to share it. You may be able to, but most people find it difficult to fully realize the amount of psychological damage that this can do to an individual. Being punished, made fun of, and sometimes even physically harmed by people who are supposed to love them for who they are no matter what, because of things that they cannot change!

Before they come out to others, most gays know about it for a long long time. They grow up in an environment that tells them "its not ok to be gay". When they finally choose to come out, they usually act in what is called "reaction formation", which is essentially claiming the opposite of how they feel to cover their own insecurities. They develop an "I dont care what you think, I'm going to do what I want" attitude. (Reaction formation, look it up). A lot of this involve PDA, an extravegant wardrobe, and just being WAY out there and WAY gay. After being shunned all their life, it is all that they can do to BLAST out of the closet and make sure everybody knows it.

Society not accepting homosexuals cuts WAY deep into the hearts and even souls of many many members of the gay community.

Also - I want a hetrosexual parade.

Eh.... it sure would be funny. But again, you gotta open your mind a little bit and realize that the reason we can have gay parades and not straight parades are similar to the reasons I listed above. Its just why there are "Black Student Unions" at high schools and not "White Student Unions".

We'll start with Blacks Vs. Whites. Whites were never oppressed, never forced into slavery, never shot down with freaking fire hoses. They became a minority that was hated by the masses. Granted, I hate hip hop and am not too huge on the rap/gangsta 'culture' I respect it. They are who they are, and I can't change that.




Gay people have been brutally murdered for being gay. Ever seen a straight person get dragged behind a truck or stabbed 21 times for the sole reason of being straight? Didn't think so.

[bjelder]

And JD- to the comment that Gay Pride Parades are just as bad as the Westboro baptist church and neither does any good, I respectfully disagree.

Gay pride parades are sometimes the one opportunity that people have to be themselves and flaunt their sexuality. I would never go to one because its not my style, but I support them 100%.

I dont think you have any idea what it is like to grow up as a homosexual, and forgive me but I find your views a bit ignorant.

Again, absolutely nothing is WRONG with your views, I just felt the need to express my own opinion.

Life to me is a learning experience. The more I learn about my own self, about other people and other people's cultures, the better person I am. I embrace others ideas just as strongly as I do my own.

If you ever want to talk one on one feel free to PM me.

[Bulldog_916]

Dude, come to Cali and get married if you have someone in your life that you care about that deeply. Hopefully the people of my great state dont decide to overturn such a nice decision in November. People are becoming more and more open to homosexuality. Especially the most recent generations. Yea, in high school, it was funny. Tolerance is growing though. Hell I predicted a ratio of 3 guys out of 4 would turn out gay after high school. You think I'd be able to make that prediction if they were completely in the closet? Our school was pretty accepting, but I dont think they were ready yet. I embrace the fact that you are different, and respect it. I hope you get nothing but the best from your life. I think, as far as people's attitudes go, you have to take the good with the bad.

[bjelder]

Dude, come to Cali and get married if you have someone in your life that you care about that deeply. Hopefully the people of my great state dont decide to overturn such a nice decision in November. People are becoming more and more open to homosexuality. Especially the most recent generations. Yea, in high school, it was funny. Tolerance is growing though. Hell I predicted a ratio of 3 guys out of 4 would turn out gay after high school. You think I'd be able to make that prediction if they were completely in the closet? Our school was pretty accepting, but I dont think they were ready yet. I embrace the fact that you are different, and respect it. I hope you get nothing but the best from your life. I think, as far as people's attitudes go, you have to take the good with the bad.

Thanks bro. And very true to the last statement. Its not a perfect world so why get pissed off about it? If somebody wants to learn about it I'll be more than happy to share my life experiences (i.e, see other thread)

[Johnny_D]

Thanks bj for your considered posts in response to my own.

First off, I'd like to clarify that I have no direct, religious, political or personal objections to what or how people live their lives.

My 'objections' ,if you will, are coming from the viewpoint of parenting. I've said it before in this thread somewhere that It's hard enough to steer children through sexuality, without the additional confusion of alternative lifestyles. If a child is going to grow up gay then so be it. As you said earlier you grew up gay and I guess there was little confusion....

Now let me give you an example...

A very good friend of mine was a lesbian. She lived the whole 'lifestyle' even got married to another girl [Wedding attended by myself and two eldest children I might add] And everything was fine. Gay all the way right? Gay pride's Whole man-hating lesbian thing going on. She damn near puked when we were having a penis discussion one time lol.

Guess what? She's just had her first baby and is currently living with a GUY.

Now tell me she's not confused? That girl has no idea weather she's coming or going. And I believe if she wasn't trying to live up to some [Not sure of the right word here] lifestyle?

So I take your point about Gay people sometimes being singled out for violence or attacks, I take your point about the whole ridicule when coming out of the closet. But what is it the gay community really wants? Social Acceptance will never be achieved by ramming your lifestyle down other people's throats.

In the same way that Numbbollocks Phelps will never achieve a real audience because of his methods.

Again I have nothing against anyone and there lifestyle choice. But please do not force it upon me. I do not force my lifestyle choices on you [The royal me and you that is]

JD

just re-read what I posted. This is not the best media to convey what one is trying to say.

Just to clarify I have worked with, and FOR, a number of gay people. Really Nice people and I'm not some gay bashing homofobe.

It's also too much to see hetrosexual people going for it in front of children. And before some clever bastard accuses one of having public affection issues... one has fucked Mrs JD all over the place. But at times and IN places where children would not, or should not be.

Like the rugby field of essex university at midnight tongue

Edited June 6, 2008 by Johnny_D