Tray Or Foil?

[mattarios2]

Seems like everyone on here uses foil (after seeing pictures and what not). Now I had always thought that smoking out of foil was very unhealthy. Do you guys use hookah foil? (Which I am assuming is different from regular foil)

What are the cons of using a tray?

Thanks guys

[jfaltous]

Search the forums, theres many threads regarding the screen vs foil argument.

[mattarios2]

Search the forums, theres many threads regarding the screen vs foil argument.

Alright thanks man

[Texico]

I just use regular foil. Everything I've heard is that the coals don't burn hot enough to cause a problem with the aluminum. The hookah foil sheets just seem like a waste of money to me. Rolls of reynold's or CVS brand foil for me.

Most people don't use the metal trays because the holes are big and let ash fall in the bowl. It's also hard to control the heat with the metal plates. My friend had a combo bowl that came with one. He got rid of that fairly quickly.

[iamscott06]

I just use reynolds aluminum foil shiny side down

Im pretty sure the foil doesnt get hot enough to release any bad shit.

Yea, search the boards. Theres probably topics with epic debates on the pro's/con's of foil.

[Codename067]

Stick with foil if you want quality smoke with more intense flavor.

[mattarios2]

Stick with foil if you want quality smoke with more intense flavor.

Are you guys sure that with tinfoil it does not create more harm?

It kinda scares me to use pure tinfoil.

[Codename067]

I have not done research or anything of that sort to tell you otherwise, but, I have used Trays before, and they are no where near as good as the Foil when it comes down to smoking quality, so I sticked with Foil.

Shiny side down always for me too.

[mattarios2]

I have not done research or anything of that sort to tell you otherwise, but, I have used Trays before, and they are no where near as good as the Foil when it comes down to smoking quality, so I sticked with Foil.

Shiny side down always for me too.

alright, thanks

[jfaltous]

Look at it this way.. the primary use for foil is for things such as cooking in ovens, where you can easily get 500 degree temperatures. Compare that with the temperature of coals which going by memory from some study is around 100 degrees (someone feel free to correct me on that if I'm wrong). I don't know why everyone is so convinced a metal foil will not just melt, but evaporate so easily...

The long and short of it is that screens are quick, easy and dirty. Foil is a bit more work, although less cleanup, but you have complete control in the thickness and airflow (both direction and quantity), and they're much easier for heat management.

[mattarios2]

Look at it this way.. the primary use for foil is for things such as cooking in ovens, where you can easily get 500 degree temperatures. Compare that with the temperature of coals which going by memory from some study is around 100 degrees (someone feel free to correct me on that if I'm wrong). I don't know why everyone is so convinced a metal foil will not just melt, but evaporate so easily...

The long and short of it is that screens are quick, easy and dirty. Foil is a bit more work, although less cleanup, but you have complete control in the thickness and airflow (both direction and quantity), and they're much easier for heat management.

I called Reynolds with my dilemma they said that they don't quite have the info as to when the toxins are released but, the melting point is 1,200 degrees ... hmmm

[r1v3th3ad]

I love my screen. Once in a while, when the ash is building up, I take it off real quick and rid myself of ash. The bonus, to me anyway, is I control the shisha...I can stir it when its drying up and get the moist stuff from the bottom. This gives me a complete, quality smoke, instead of gettin the crappy halfway smokes I used to get with foil. It does take a lot on the heat management, but I have no issues because I've been working with the screen for how long now...
I don't use foil anymore.

[mattarios2]

Yeah I mean I like my tray, But I am assuming that with foil you get a longer smoke ... my hookahs last about 30-45 min, but I only have been using quick lights. I am hoping my problem is the coals. Because the hookah is air tight, I use quality tobacco and i lightly fill the bowl with tobacco, etc. etc. I beleive I've got everything down, but the coals either seem to die to soon (should use a wind cover) and the tobacco seems to be burnt to a crisp by 40 min in (but in my defense I don't load up the bowl with tons of tobacco, like I see in most videos, etc.)

How much would you guys say you pack in one hookah bowl? In terms of grams ...

[jfaltous]

I usually pack about 25-30g on average into a medium phunnel... I'll typically smoke that for 1.5-2 hours, and still have some good tobacco left at the bottom of the bowl when I'm done.

[r1v3th3ad]

I honestly couldn't share grams with ya, I don't weigh. I can tell you my technique: I "break up" my shisha, pulling it apart and what not. Then I put it in a tupaware container and shake it up and down, side to side. I then load the bowl fluffily. Lightly pack it down and add some more. Just gotta leave room, sometimes with this method it likes to "grow" upward and stick to the screen or foil.
This method gives me a nice long smoke. Low quality shishas would give me an hour+ and high quality would give me 2hrs+

[mattarios2]

I usually pack about 25-30g on average into a medium phunnel... I'll typically smoke that for 1.5-2 hours, and still have some good tobacco left at the bottom of the bowl when I'm done.

So you guys pack it heavy and then just poke holes in the bowl to make room for smoke to travel through?

Man that's a lot of tobacco, when I was considering opening a hookah bar I weighed out amounts and i was only weighing like 5-6 grams of tobacco for a bowl. That seems to last for about 30-40 min for me and about 3-4 friends or so.

So that must be the reason why my hookah's die a lot faster.

Yeah?

[Johnny_D]

My take is this :-

Foil is used a lot in cooking. If it's ok to cook your food with it then it's probably ok to use it as a screen between coal and tobacco.

JD

[mattarios2]

I honestly couldn't share grams with ya, I don't weigh. I can tell you my technique: I "break up" my shisha, pulling it apart and what not. Then I put it in a tupaware container and shake it up and down, side to side. I then load the bowl fluffily. Lightly pack it down and add some more. Just gotta leave room, sometimes with this method it likes to "grow" upward and stick to the screen or foil.
This method gives me a nice long smoke. Low quality shishas would give me an hour+ and high quality would give me 2hrs+

Well I guess the point I am trying to make is, 25-30 grams in a bowl, means the bowl must be packed pretty damn full.

I usually just sprinkle some in until its close to the top, I use like 5-7 grams tops. I have a [b]<h6 style="display: inline;">Modern Ceramic Hookah Head</h6>[/b] from HC.

[mattarios2]

My take is this :-

Foil is used a lot in cooking. If it's ok to cook your food with it then it's probably ok to use it as a screen between coal and tobacco.

JD

I know what you mean, I just feel that there is direct contact with the flame on foil with the hookah, and in cooking its usually just heated in the oven. Also you are directly inhaling the toxins that are released from aluminum foil (if that really does happen) rather than toxins being released and you taking toxins in secondarily after the releasing of the toxins into the food/oven area.

[Bulldog_916]

Most ovens at some point or another are lined with aluminum foil on the bottom to prevent the inside of the oven from being damaged and crumbs from being deposited. The way I see it, the foil is in the sweet spot between the cool shisha and the hot coal. It acts as a heat transfer medium. Aluminum is an excellent heat transfer metal. That's what it's designed to do, facilitate energy transfer. There's nothing wrong with smoking with foil.

[mackiain]

My take is this :-

Foil is used a lot in cooking. If it's ok to cook your food with it then it's probably ok to use it as a screen between coal and tobacco.

JD

I know what you mean, I just feel that there is direct contact with the flame on foil with the hookah, and in cooking its usually just heated in the oven. Also you are directly inhaling the toxins that are released from aluminum foil (if that really does happen) rather than toxins being released and you taking toxins in secondarily after the releasing of the toxins into the food/oven area.

There are people who wrap potatos in tin foil and throw them in the fire when camping. I have done this several times. To the best of my knowledge my brain hasn't been swiss cheesed yet.

[erufiku]

Interesting... You guys really use a lot of shisha
My guess is that I pack anywhere between 8-12g/head. Then again, I only get around 40 minutes of smoke from half a 40mm quicklight... but I actually prefer mini sessions

As for screens, I've tried using them but quicklights ash too much and make the shisha taste like crap. I'm going to give it another go when I get some natural coals though. Edited February 11, 2008 by erufiku

[Texico]

the reason they pack so much shisha is because they are using phunnel bowls. phunnels hold a LOT of shisha. they also keep the juices from leaking down the stem so the shisha stays juicy longer and gives longer sessions.

i recommend that if you want to start getting longer sessions buy a medium phunnel and a scalli mod from MNH. it'll cost ya, but i love my phunnel, and the mod just means i use less shisha and still get 2+ hour sessions.

[AmunRa]

Regular aluminum foil presents no problem with offgassing or anything of the sort. No reason to be worried. The bowl screens are useless too because they don't give you an air-tight seal. That, plus the holes being big don't give a good smoke.

[pitzeleh8]

Yeah I mean I like my tray, But I am assuming that with foil you get a longer smoke ... my hookahs last about 30-45 min, but I only have been using quick lights. I am hoping my problem is the coals. Because the hookah is air tight, I use quality tobacco and i lightly fill the bowl with tobacco, etc. etc. I beleive I've got everything down, but the coals either seem to die to soon (should use a wind cover) and the tobacco seems to be burnt to a crisp by 40 min in (but in my defense I don't load up the bowl with tons of tobacco, like I see in most videos, etc.)

How much would you guys say you pack in one hookah bowl? In terms of grams ...

I don't use foil often; but I suspect you're right, it probably gives a longer smoke. Normally I use a tray. I am curious, however, about screens. The main POSSIBLE issues with trays are: 1) Not fitting the top of bowl well enough to prevent too much air passage from the sides, 2) Allowing, via their comparatively larger hole size, bits of lit coal to fall into the moassel and make it burn, 3) they require more heat (so if you smoke very often--I smoke a few times a day, minimally--you'll want to line up a regular cheap charcoal supply) and more heat management. You can mitigate these issues, respectively, by: 1) Getting a different bowl that works fits trays well or modifying the tray ever-so-slightly to fit the bowl, 2) lift the coals off the tray while moving them around, don't shove them (which scrapes off little sparks that may fall into the moassel) and if any sparks do fall in, let the moassel rest for 30-60 seconds to let the spark die out, 3) well, there's not much to fix issue 3 except getting used to it.

Here are, IMO, the advantages: 1) easy access to the moassel for stirring, removing burning bits now and then, unclogging holes in the bowl, etc., 2) incredibly easy ash removal (just remove the tray with the tongs and shake it gently like you are panning for gold; the ash will fall through the holes into the hookah's tray, assuming you have a tray around the base of the bowl), 3) re-usable.

There is also a fourth that has been very important for me, but I may be alone in this; it requires a bit of explanation. With foil I noticed that after smoking a few times a day I would start to get headaches. They weren't from drawing too hard or not allowing for some regular breathing between puffs, as I've had those before and can tell the difference. Also, I noticed my throat would be very achy/tired (not sore, just achy, like the muscles had been used too much or something). And worst of all, I noticed a significant amount of phlegm build-up in my throat at night that I had to clear out in the morning. The instant I switched to tray-only, all of these things went away. I have not tried hookah-specific foil yet, and that may very well make a difference; I'm not sure. But as far as aluminum foil goes, I will still use it once in a while, but 98% of the time I use a tray.

As mentioned above, however, I am very curious about screens, and may try out a few different ones to see how they work comparatively. I worry they would let in even more excess air than the trays but I have seen some decent reviews of them, so who knows.

If you don't smoke that often (not more than a few times a week), the foil is probably the way you want to go. It is easy, disposable, and requires little-to-no management or know-how. There is not much of a learning curve, if any. If you smoke on a daily basis, or a several-times-per-day basis like me, I would strongly recommend the tray.

Hope this is of some assistance to you and others.

Cheers,
p8