Amtrak Security?!

[TheScotsman]

Now we get SMG armed, level 3 armor clad guards, canine units, and "random" searching for trains?

Maybe someone should tell GW you can't drive a train into a building!

Is it me, or is this just another way for the jackboots to parade around heavily armed, generally causing unrest in the populace? Or is it an attempt to make the public jumpy, trying to further convince us we are all doomed to a horrible death at the hands of some obscure terrorist group? Skewing people toward voting for another "all in the name of homeland security" candidate?

Besides, the guards are not the brightest lot in the world! I hope someone gives them a "barney fife" bullet for their pocket, and an empty mag for show.

All this "security" doesn't make me feel very secure. Wonder what it's going to cost us (in $ and freedom)?

[Oggie505]

well it is about thim the beef it up, the reason trians can be used is because they go into the heart of almost every city, every city has a train station in it, while airports are usually on the outskirts, because of the buildings

[AKammenzind]

I think the concern is more that someone will plant explosives in a train and disable it, or plant nail bombs on it to kill people. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was a private company hiring guards to protect their investment and their business.

I know Amtrak is pretty well subsidized, but couldn't say whether the security are paid for by the public, or if they're private security. Last time I rode on amtrak was probably pre-9/11, and I don't remember there being any security... my how things change.

[Johnny_D]

Yer, there is talk of doing this on london underground also.

Which would be impressive actually. London underground & TFL can't find there own ass with two hands and a torch.

Even the terrorists took a 1/2 assed approach. What a laugh huh!

1984 anyone?

JD

[gaia.plateau]

Lol liberty.

[Canon]

Yer, there is talk of doing this on london underground also.

Which would be impressive actually. London underground & TFL can't find there own ass with two hands and a torch.

Even the terrorists took a 1/2 assed approach. What a laugh huh!

1984 anyone?

JD

until your post i thought you guys were talking about a game of some sort..

and its becoming more like 1984 everyday, esp in europe.

[TheScotsman]

Remember the sarin attacks in Tokyo? None of that would have been detected by the goons (public paid according to faux-news). Someone really thinks the terrorists are a stupid lot. "random" searches have been nothing put a PITA in the airports, and with the exception of some shampoo the return has been pretty poor.

[SafeSearchOff]

i view this beefed up security to make me feel more secure. i remember when the army (or is it homeland security?) first started showing up at security checks and at regular intervals at Newark airport i was like hell yeah try and fookin airjack us now. personally i love the army and their soldiers. can you hate them for their doing their job... PROTECTING you life?

i mean yeah i got a little jittery a few months back, there was an entire fully armed police force in a path (subway) station... ballistic helmets and armor, mp-5s and all, but i think it might have been a random patrol or something.

i think that its about time higher security got put into places like train stations. seriously. grand central terminal. its where the Metro North meets the subway system in NYC. not to mention all the huge buildings around it. if a terrorist decides to bomb the train station. not only do we lose a terrific monument of our nations history lost, we also lose a couple thousand lives, and travel through half of new york city and the rest of new york is crippled. if a terrorist bomber takes out penn station, another thousand dead, more subways are crippled, we lose like 2 city blocks, another historical monument. the main station in Washington DC. HUUUGE landmark BEAUTIFUL station. gone. and the death toll.

i mean cmon. the possibility of more lives saved? do oyu really have to be so cynical as to assume that more security makes us UNsafe??

[AKammenzind]

i view this beefed up security to make me feel more secure. i remember when the army (or is it homeland security?) first started showing up at security checks and at regular intervals at Newark airport i was like hell yeah try and fookin airjack us now. personally i love the army and their soldiers. can you hate them for their doing their job... PROTECTING you life?

i mean yeah i got a little jittery a few months back, there was an entire fully armed police force in a path (subway) station... ballistic helmets and armor, mp-5s and all, but i think it might have been a random patrol or something.

i think that its about time higher security got put into places like train stations. seriously. grand central terminal. its where the Metro North meets the subway system in NYC. not to mention all the huge buildings around it. if a terrorist decides to bomb the train station. not only do we lose a terrific monument of our nations history lost, we also lose a couple thousand lives, and travel through half of new york city and the rest of new york is crippled. if a terrorist bomber takes out penn station, another thousand dead, more subways are crippled, we lose like 2 city blocks, another historical monument. the main station in Washington DC. HUUUGE landmark BEAUTIFUL station. gone. and the death toll.

i mean cmon. the possibility of more lives saved? do oyu really have to be so cynical as to assume that more security makes us UNsafe??

He who trades liberty for security deserves neither and will lose both. That cannot be stressed enough.

/SLAP

[r1v3th3ad]

i view this beefed up security to make me feel more secure. i remember when the army (or is it homeland security?) first started showing up at security checks and at regular intervals at Newark airport i was like hell yeah try and fookin airjack us now. personally i love the army and their soldiers. can you hate them for their doing their job... PROTECTING you life?

i mean yeah i got a little jittery a few months back, there was an entire fully armed police force in a path (subway) station... ballistic helmets and armor, mp-5s and all, but i think it might have been a random patrol or something.

i think that its about time higher security got put into places like train stations. seriously. grand central terminal. its where the Metro North meets the subway system in NYC. not to mention all the huge buildings around it. if a terrorist decides to bomb the train station. not only do we lose a terrific monument of our nations history lost, we also lose a couple thousand lives, and travel through half of new york city and the rest of new york is crippled. if a terrorist bomber takes out penn station, another thousand dead, more subways are crippled, we lose like 2 city blocks, another historical monument. the main station in Washington DC. HUUUGE landmark BEAUTIFUL station. gone. and the death toll.

i mean cmon. the possibility of more lives saved? do oyu really have to be so cynical as to assume that more security makes us UNsafe??

He who trades liberty for security deserves neither and will lose both. That cannot be stressed enough.

/SLAP

nough said

[Oggie505]

AMTRAK has their own police force, they have quite a lot but not as many as the need now. They range from K9 units in the station, to visible police, undercover, they also have units that patrol the rails at key points. Only reason I know this because 3 years ago I looked into applying to amtrak police. They are funded by amtrak, and also the stations themselves, like how airports are. The police at airports are hired by the airport authority not TSA

[SafeSearchOff]

i view this beefed up security to make me feel more secure. i remember when the army (or is it homeland security?) first started showing up at security checks and at regular intervals at Newark airport i was like hell yeah try and fookin airjack us now. personally i love the army and their soldiers. can you hate them for their doing their job... PROTECTING you life?

i mean yeah i got a little jittery a few months back, there was an entire fully armed police force in a path (subway) station... ballistic helmets and armor, mp-5s and all, but i think it might have been a random patrol or something.

i think that its about time higher security got put into places like train stations. seriously. grand central terminal. its where the Metro North meets the subway system in NYC. not to mention all the huge buildings around it. if a terrorist decides to bomb the train station. not only do we lose a terrific monument of our nations history lost, we also lose a couple thousand lives, and travel through half of new york city and the rest of new york is crippled. if a terrorist bomber takes out penn station, another thousand dead, more subways are crippled, we lose like 2 city blocks, another historical monument. the main station in Washington DC. HUUUGE landmark BEAUTIFUL station. gone. and the death toll.

i mean cmon. the possibility of more lives saved? do oyu really have to be so cynical as to assume that more security makes us UNsafe??

He who trades liberty for security deserves neither and will lose both. That cannot be stressed enough.

/SLAP

he who would rather trade his life than have relatively intrusive security is a fool.

[HarryTheHookaMaster]

All I know is that when I see dudes with SMG's and I DONT HAVE ONE!!!! ... I DO NOT feel safe! The government wants to take away my weapons and put armed guards everywhere to keep ME safe????? I think not..... 1984 indeed.

[SafeSearchOff]

why do you feel unsafe? are you a possible threat to the men with guns? do the men with guns have any reason they should even suspect to shoot you? why should you be carrying around a submachine gun to feel safe?

conspiracy i think not my friends. just you being idiots. if you have no reason to antagonize the security, theres no reason to be scared. i was pulled over at a plane security check point once last year. i was bringing a baguette onto a plane and absentmindedly while at home i had left the 9 inch bread knife lodged inside it. when they were all like WTF IS THIS WHY DO YOU HAVE A KNIFE i was just like oh... shit my bad. yeah you can just throw that away. totally my mistake im so sorry. and they were like oh ok. did a quick hand-metal detector search, ran my bags thru the xray once more, and let me go.

[HarryTheHookaMaster]

[quote name='SafeSearchOff' date='Feb 19 2008, 07:39 PM' post='210290']
why do you feel unsafe? are you a possible threat to the men with guns? do the men with guns have any reason they should even suspect to shoot you? why should you be carrying around a submachine gun to feel safe?

I don't feel safe when the government wants me unarmed.... I would rather be free then "secure". We are losing more and more freedom everyday...in the name of "security" or "terrorism". I am not saying that I want to carry a weapon on a plane, I just want the right to carry one...period.

[ZenSilk]

Walk or ride a bike?
Those terrorists can't get ya there!

If someone really wanted to kill you and is willing to kill themselves to make that happen, there's really no stopping them.

[SafeSearchOff]

dude i am sorry that you cant carry a f*cking weapon on a plane. but there are obvious f*cking reasons that you cannot carry a freaking FIREARM on a plane. are you f-ing kidding me!?!?!?

what reason do you have to fear those men and women who are doing service to you protecting you? your allowed to own and operate a firearm in your own home. i mean hell, i live in the suburbs, and as long as you have permissiong from your neighbors, we are allowed to FIRE at wild game on our yards. meaning deer. i live in new jersey for chrissakes.

maybe i feel strongly about this topic. but seriously. i know a few people who were lost in 9/11, and over a dozen close calls. maybe that was an extreme circumstance. but if it can be prevented by a simple man in boonies carrying an assault rifle that he will probably never have to use in his life, so be it man. you people act like all of your freedoms are being taken away. i mean cmon dude. seriously think it through.

[HarryTheHookaMaster]

dude i am sorry that you cant carry a f*cking weapon on a plane. but there are obvious f*cking reasons that you cannot carry a freaking FIREARM on a plane. are you f-ing kidding me!?!?!?

what reason do you have to fear those men and women who are doing service to you protecting you? your allowed to own and operate a firearm in your own home. i mean hell, i live in the suburbs, and as long as you have permissiong from your neighbors, we are allowed to FIRE at wild game on our yards. meaning deer. i live in new jersey for chrissakes.

maybe i feel strongly about this topic. but seriously. i know a few people who were lost in 9/11, and over a dozen close calls. maybe that was an extreme circumstance. but if it can be prevented by a simple man in boonies carrying an assault rifle that he will probably never have to use in his life, so be it man. you people act like all of your freedoms are being taken away. i mean cmon dude. seriously think it through.

I do think it through. Our "rights" are being eroded more and more every day. The cops drive armored cars and carry SMG's but I am not allow to carry a concealed weapon??? and you ask why I don't feel safe? Maybe if I got one of the cops to follow me everywhere I go to protect me!

I have been a weapons dealer (leagal...FFL) and I have seen exactly how the government is fucking us. I have had a concealed weapons permit in the past only to have it canceled (with the rest of the CCW's in my state) because some chickenshit in Madison wanted the streets "safer"....what a fucking joke!

Look man, we will just have to agree to disagree. We will not solve this. I am just saying that I do not get that "warm and fuzzy" feeling when I see jack booted thugs with SMG's keeping me safe. I have had the same firearms training (and more) that the police officers are required in my state. I have shot in comps. I have never hurt anyone but my states says its "unsafe" for me to carry a weapon. My point is simple- if I am a law abiding citizen and I have the tequired training to carry a weapon...why should I depend on others to keep me safe?

FYI- I have trained as a Polise Officer. I have my degree in Law Enforcement. I am not some nut case who wants to carry a weapon on a plane.

[SafeSearchOff]

okay, now your making more sense. your earlier posts just made you sound like a nutjob.

i dont see how adding security to places that need them affects your concealed weapons permit. yes, YOU maybe be allowed to carry a gun (if it wasnt revoked). but are you going to sit in that train station, patrolling it, making sure its safe? no. your going to look out for yourself. which is good. but the law enforcement is there to look out for US.

[AKammenzind]

dude i am sorry that you cant carry a f*cking weapon on a plane. but there are obvious f*cking reasons that you cannot carry a freaking FIREARM on a plane. are you f-ing kidding me!?!?!?

what reason do you have to fear those men and women who are doing service to you protecting you? your allowed to own and operate a firearm in your own home. i mean hell, i live in the suburbs, and as long as you have permissiong from your neighbors, we are allowed to FIRE at wild game on our yards. meaning deer. i live in new jersey for chrissakes.

maybe i feel strongly about this topic. but seriously. i know a few people who were lost in 9/11, and over a dozen close calls. maybe that was an extreme circumstance. but if it can be prevented by a simple man in boonies carrying an assault rifle that he will probably never have to use in his life, so be it man. you people act like all of your freedoms are being taken away. i mean cmon dude. seriously think it through.

Eh, I'm pretty sure he said specifically that he WASN'T saying that he wanted to carry a gun on a plane.

Besides, we have a MUCH greater chance of dieing in a car accident or some other unfortunate occurance than we do of dieing from a terrorist attack. This decade so far we've had what, roughly 3,000 people killed by terrorists in the US? Compare that to car accidents: 268,610 (if my math is correct) in 2000-2006 alone. Source: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

268,610 > 3,000

Maybe we should be hiring auto-mechanics and traffic controllers instead of armed men to protect us?

If you're very worried about terrorism (and you seem to be), perhaps you should write your representatives asking them to stop making people want to kill us... doubt they'll listen though, because that's not where the money is.

[HarryTheHookaMaster]

okay, now your making more sense. your earlier posts just made you sound like a nutjob.

i dont see how adding security to places that need them affects your concealed weapons permit. yes, YOU maybe be allowed to carry a gun (if it wasnt revoked). but are you going to sit in that train station, patrolling it, making sure its safe? no. your going to look out for yourself. which is good. but the law enforcement is there to look out for US.

True, but you have to understand that the cops get uptight when you have a gun...legally. I mean REALLY UPTIGHT! They are trained to think that EVERYONE with a gun (and no badge) is the ememy. Period.

...and I really don't trust "private security" guards with guns. I think I can keep me safer!

[SafeSearchOff]

im not worried about terrorism. im actually not even worried about dangerous people. i just dont understand why people refuse to accept that the security is here to help us, not to hinder us.



edit: harry posted at the same time as me, here is my response to him

i dont doubt at all that you can keep yourself safer. but as for me. dude my like 85 lb lab could probably kick the shit out of me. im not gonna lie, im weak, have no superior weapons or defense training like yourself. are YOU going to stay with me in large crowded, potentially dangerous places to protect me? thats who they are their for.

also, these "private security" guards are also certified cops too. theyre just police run by the corporation, not police run by the government.

i understand your qualms about the gun and stuff, but im sure if you just present your permits and are cooperative, it cant be too big a deal, right?



maybe im just an idealist. i dunno. Edited February 20, 2008 by SafeSearchOff

[AKammenzind]

...and I really don't trust "private security" guards with guns. I think I can keep me safer!

Agreed, but I would say that a private company has the right to hire guards to protect their investment (be it a building, a railway, a bus, you name it.)

[HarryTheHookaMaster]

im not worried about terrorism. im actually not even worried about dangerous people. i just dont understand why people refuse to accept that the security is here to help us, not to hinder us.

alot of people feel that there is a fine (and I mean FINE) line between help and hinder....

The US was formed by people who came from an over oppressive land. When these dudes sat down, lit up a bowl, and wrote down the rules on how shit was going to be run, they had a fews ideas of they did not want to happen.... now our spineless government seems to forget that...

Right now, its cool to see these dudes walking around with thier SMG's...later they will be stopping YOU and checking your papers etc.....you get the picture????

The Nazi's talked most of thier citizens to turn in their weapons. They told them that if they wanted a weapon, join the military! I know, its a stretch...but why even step onto the slippery slope!

[SafeSearchOff]

good point.

before you whip out the "America was created..." speech on me, its not all that it seems. America broke away from its overopressive state, but then all the powerful leaders at that time secretly convened, and basically rigged the system to work for them. behind everyones backs. or at least thats what i gathered from history clas while i was awake...

seriously. actually very good point, and i respect that. but it seems to me that we have not yet even come to that line yet. i think right now the intentions of our government are purely good, though its corruption that leads to the problems you presented.
like you said i guess well have to agree to disagree. however thus far, i have yet to see crucial signs to lead me to distrust my government. it will be interesting to see how i feel on this topic in 10 years...