cobrabyte Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 We are trying to find a fast, convenient method for our customers to purchase tobacco on our websites and want to get your opinions on what you will go through to obtain shisha.In short, it is a requirement for companies that sell tobacco online to get a copy of a customer's drivers license (or ID) and a letter stating that they wish to receive tobacco shipments from the company. This is in accordance to federal and state laws/regulations (U.S.).So, here are the questions...1) How many of you are already doing this?2) Is this too much of a hassle to do this once?3) Are you willing to do this the first time you order shisha from a company?4) Would you be willing to pay $1.00 (the first time you order) to have the verification run electronically rather than having to fax/email a picture of your ID?5) Would you consider this if it saved you money on your shisha (part of a club or something)?Thanks in advance and I hope we can get some honest-to-goodness answers to our questions.Thanks,Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakemonster Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Yes its a hassle... would I do it... Yes. Heres the deal on paying a buck to have my ID run... I wouldnt mind if I knew that I was going to pay considerably less for the shisha in the long haul...... and shipping too. I cant stand it when the prices are good....and then shipping is high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrabyte Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Well, there's no way around the shipping charges (especially if you are purchasing a 50g container of shisha).That said, we mark up our pricing above what USPS and UPS charge a total of $1.00. This helps pay for the box that the products are shipped in and, in most cases, this only helps offset the cost a small amount for us.The club pricing will be significantly cheaper and we will offer volume pricing if we go this route.Just looking for input at this point.Also, the electronic processing is handled through a top-tier solutions provider with the utmost in integrity. We understand that information like this is given at a premium and we will do everything to ensure that it is not given to the wrong people (SSL connections, etc...).Thanks,Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yashman19 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 It doesn't seem like a lot to ask, but I don't know how many hookah sites require this. I've only ordered from a website once in my life, and they didn't require any type of licence I.D. or a letter of any sorts. This was thehookah.com So I don't personally think this is too much to ask, but some people will want to just stick to the easiest route possible. Just giving you my small experience with a hookah online vendor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrabyte Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Here's the problem that exists...Most of the current retailers are (put frankly) running their businesses illegally. Most of the times, this is not going to affect the customers (when the government catches up with them). It will, however, affect the industry and hurt those who are playing by the rules.In any case, we are going to make it worth the time our customers have to invest in doing this. More than likely, there will be an incentive for going through the process (free shisha, coupons or something similar). The lower pricing, in the least, will make it worth the time invested.-Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yashman19 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 [quote name='cobrabyte']Here's the problem that exists... Most of the current retailers are (put frankly) running their businesses illegally. Most of the times, this is not going to affect the customers (when the government catches up with them). It will, however, affect the industry and hurt those who are playing by the rules. In any case, we are going to make it worth the time our customers have to invest in doing this. More than likely, there will be an incentive for going through the process (free shisha, coupons or something similar). The lower pricing, in the least, will make it worth the time invested. -Chris[/quote] I definately agree with you. It really sounds like you are going to take good care of your customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR Bubble Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 As far as age verification goes, what about those "age check" or "age verification" things one has to go through in order to get into some of those adult sites. No, I don't do it in case anyone asks because I don't even know the names of them. All that would need to be done is set up an account though the (is it called?) "Cyber patrol or nanny" when one wants to purchase tobacco. Then every time they return to you for tobacco purchases, the enter through the password screen upon checkout. But that would be ordering tobacco. Or would that become an expensive ordeal? MR Bubble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrabyte Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Unfortunately, the only solution that will work is a nearly-custom solution.The Net Nanny and other services will not suffice for government reporting requirements. It's a wonder that they are still in business at all.We have contracted with a top-tier solutions provider to manage our verification services. Basically, as long as you log into your account on our site, you will only be age-verified once. We keep the verification token (provided by the verification service) on file and that is (apprently) sufficient for legalities and such.There are a few other, proprietary things we are rolling in ... but those need to be kept hush-hush until they are implemented. It's weird to think that you may wake up one day and find that we're one of the few companies still online because the others have been shut down.Oh well ... here's to friendly competition! -c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahwahoo2006 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Chris - A couple things: -Not that I am paranoid or anything, but a drivers license, or at least the one I have, has a lot of personal information on it, that I would very much like to not have people get ahold of. If I sent a copy of mine in I would definately black out certain information - would this still be acceptable? -Also, whats to stop someone for "borrowing" an older person's ID and sending it in as theirs? Or even from getting a fake? -If you only agree to ship to the address on the license, that would limit people who are away from their home address (I'm in college). -I'm sort of wary about joining a club because I like to shop around to get better prices and variety. -Anything else, feel free to send me a PM or email. I'm pretty much right in the middle of what I would think would be your key demographic. -AHW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrabyte Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 AHW,Let me address your concerns one-by-one:1) Regarding your (well-founded) paranoia...We will only seek what is absolutely required by law. No more and no less. Our electronic system will probably require a couple bits of information such as your name, drivers license/id number and perhaps the last 4 digits of your social security number. After the system initially checks for these bits, it will ask you a question. It will be something like 'Which of these phone numbers is yours?' and it will present a list of numbers. This seems to be the least-intrusive method of obtaining the necessary information. We will not store any private information like this on our servers and all communication between our servers and our solution provider's server will be secured by the industry-leading encryption.2) Regarding fake drivers licenses...We have a system in-house that allows us to run drivers licenses through a verification system. When ordering tobacco, shipments will be shipped via UPS and require an adult signature to be delivered. I understand that this may be a problem for college students, but there's just no way around this (legally).3) Regarding the ship-to address...We will ship to any address, so long as an adult signs for the shipment. This is in accordance with the law.4) Regarding the club...Joining the club will not limit you to purchasing from only Hookah Cartel websites. In reality, it will just be an in-house classification used to identify the customers who have gone through the appropriate verification steps. To reward those who are willing to go through the extra steps necessary to become 'verified,' we will likely reward them with industry-leading pricing.5) Definitely within our target demographic... Thanks for the help, guys (and gals)...-Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahwahoo2006 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 The signature thing isnt a huge deal. Most college dorms have dedicated mail rooms with staf who sign for packages and then put them in students boxes. In the off-campus house I live in there are 15 other guys, one of whom is usually around when the UPS guy comes. Im more worried about the security aspect. My DL number is my SSN, and I would like to keep that off the internet. As much as I trust technology, it does have its limits. Are there other options? Some sort of notarized form perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrabyte Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 I will certainly look into alternatives for you.If you don't mind my asking ... what state do you reside in?Thanks,Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakemonster Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I was wondering if theres an option where a photocopy of my DL was snailmailed in for records... Or does this just not quite meet the requirement in that theres no concrete verification beyond the shipping addy and the addy on the licence matching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahwahoo2006 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 right now I reside at THE University of Virginia (AKA Mr. Jefferson's University), but my DL (and home residence) is in DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrabyte Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Lakemonster,We can definitely take a snail-mail or faxed copy of your drivers license for records. This is something that we would keep on file and, as long as the person who is signing for the shisha is 1) adult or 2) you, all should be fine.-Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[LB] Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 sounds like a bunch of bullsh*t you dont need your drivers license on a page to buy it legally, you prob just read whatever laws you read wrong. Ask a lawyer, they dont ask people to buy booze with their drivers license online either. Hell im 15 how do you think i buy so much tbac online- You dont need your license online to be legal. If i were you i just would ignore whatever you read or get yourself a lawyer and ask him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrabyte Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 [quote name='[lebanese_blonde']] sounds like a bunch of bullsh*t you dont need your drivers license on apage to buy it legally, you prob just read whatever laws you readwrong. Ask a lawyer, they dont ask people to buy booze with theirdrivers license online either. Hell im 15 how do you think i buy somuch tbac online- You dont need your license online to be legal. If iwere you i just would ignore whatever you read or get yourself a lawyerand ask him. [/quote] Actually, you do.You are mistaking non-compliance for [i]the law.[/i] Just because you have been able to purchase tobacco (and alcohol) online does not change the intent of the laws. Of course, I speak of U.S. laws and regulations and perhaps these don't apply to international orders.As for the lawyers, we have them. They've done the homework. We've verified it. It's the law.This thread was started to find the least-intrusive, law-compliant way for our customers to purchase tobacco from our websites. Unfortunately, we cannot turn a blind eye to the laws, as several states in the U.S. have begun to take online tobacco retailers to court (notably Texas ... our state.).-Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[LB] Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 i guess nows the time i order 6000 grams and live off it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakemonster Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 One way or the other.. I gotta respect the fact that you are trying to run a respectable business. We've sat around here talking about how some people dont understand Hookahs and have a shady view of what they are for. If the industry is truly shady in its compliance to the laws of the land, then views of the Hookah industry will look the worse if a crackdown happened and it became any sort of news. How would that reflect on us as enjoyers of hookahs?........ indirectly... we will look like contributers to the problem. It is to our advantage to keep our pastime as legal as possible. Tobacco=Laws.... dont like em... write your Congressman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hookah hitman Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 [quote name='cobrabyte']There are a few other, proprietary things we are rolling in ... but those need to be kept hush-hush until they are implemented. It's weird to think that you may wake up one day and find that we're one of the few companies still online because the others have been shut down. Oh well ... here's to friendly competition! -c[/quote] Hey cobrabite. Your posts are getting a little abusive. You are a vender, a salesman, and you are using this website to sell your stuff, and inevitably, badmouth other websites. "Other companies are running their companies illegaly." First of all, I don't believe you. Second of all, even if this is true, it is none of my business, and none of anyones business except those companies and the law. It sounds to me like you are pulling some kind of stunt to shut down other websites. Why are you telling us about it? We don't care. We want shisha, we want it fast, we want it fresh, and we want it cheap. I could care less about anything else. I can't speak for everyone on this forum, but I don't feel like this forum was created for you to solicit business everyday (which you absolutely do) and spread HYPE about who will and will not be shut down be the government. This is BAD BUSINESS, Chris. Don't look forward to my order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrabyte Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 [quote name='the hookah hitman'][quote name='cobrabyte']There are a few other, proprietary things we are rolling in ... but those need to be kept hush-hush until they are implemented. It's weird to think that you may wake up one day and find that we're one of the few companies still online because the others have been shut down. <BR><BR>Oh well ... here's to friendly competition! <BR><BR>-c[/quote] Hey cobrabite. Your posts are getting a little abusive. You are a vender, a salesman, and you are using this website to sell your stuff, and inevitably, badmouth other websites. "Other companies are running their companies illegaly." First of all, I don't believe you. Second of all, even if this is true, it is none of my business, and none of anyones business except those companies and the law. It sounds to me like you are pulling some kind of stunt to shut down other websites. Why are you telling us about it? We don't care. We want shisha, we want it fast, we want it fresh, and we want it cheap. I could care less about anything else. I can't speak for everyone on this forum, but I don't feel like this forum was created for you to solicit business everyday (which you absolutely do) and spread HYPE about who will and will not be shut down be the government. This is BAD BUSINESS, Chris. Don't look forward to my order. [/quote] Heh, it's certainly not my intention to spread [i]hype[/i] about the industry. I am sorry if you misconstrued it that way. Second of all, I know that other companies read this forum, so it gives them a heads-up on what [i]could[/i] happen to their businesses. If I were out to [i]get the other companies[/i], I would report them or just leave my knowledge to myself and let it play out like it will.I was actually surprised to find this forum and, yes, I have been fairly active since day-one. As much as we would love to sell product, I would much rather have a place to catch the views and opinions of hookah smokers ... and share my own knowledge and opinions about hookah. That's why I started this thread ... to get opinions about what people believe to be too much information.I don't know if other companies are running their companies illegally and I retract that statement. I've been spending so much time with our attorney that this is all I hear. As far as we know, to stay compliant, you have to get a person's ID. So, to say that companies (doing business from the U.S.) who are not doing this are running their businesses illegally is not a lie ... perhaps they are under some cloak of protection that we've not discovered?In any case, I don't think I'll be soliciting the opinions of forum members regarding our business practices, as it has at least upset one member. And, that's one member too many.Have a great one...-Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakemonster Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 mmmmmmmmm.............. boy. Another episode of "When Hookah Vendor's Talking Heads Clash". ....... and ya wont hear anymore about it from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hookah hitman Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 [quote name='cobrabyte']I don't know if other companies are running their companies illegally and I retract that statement. I've been spending so much time with our attorney that this is all I hear. As far as we know, to stay compliant, you have to get a person's ID. So, to say that companies (doing business from the U.S.) who are not doing this are running their businesses illegally is not a lie ... perhaps they are under some cloak of protection that we've not discovered? -Chris[/quote] What is your problem? You say you are going to "retract that statement", and then you simply restate it in the same paragraph. Why cant you just let the subject die? Nobody cares. The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 [quote name='cobrabyte']Heh, it's certainly not my intention to spread hype about the industry. I am sorry if you misconstrued it that way...[/quote] I don't think there was anything misconstrued here. You said flat out that other companies are running illegally. It truely seems that your intention IS to spread hype. This certainly is not making a good impression to me of your business if you slam your competition in such a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrabyte Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 No problem, guys...We'll just let this thread die and stick to just reading the posts from here on out.We apologize if we've over-stepped our bounds and we'll leave it at that.-Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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