Children's Behaviour

[Johnny_D]

We get this in the uk too Voski.

Kids on overpasses or doing the same to train tracks.... The problem almost always lies in no discipline at home. If the kid knows that he is not going to get
in trouble at home then why does he care? He know the police can't/won't do bugger all.

Look at the Jamie Bulger[1] case from the uk about 10/15 years ago. Those bastards are now out of jail and living secret lives paid for by the British tax payer.

It has to come down to effective parenting. Parents should be tried along with any <18s' to explain why they failed as parents. It might focus a few people.

JD

[1] - James Bulger was a kid aged 2 & 1/2 abducted by two 11 year old and violenty killed then left on a railway track to ensure it looked like an accident.
This makes unpleasant reading....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

Edited April 1, 2008 by Johnny_D

[paiintballa182]

Something that relates. Especially recently I have been reading a lot about how kids are throwing things over freeway over passes. Like rocks, bricks, pieces of wood, ect... And a lot of people have died actually. Why are their parents not watching what they are doing? And why have they not had the concept of that being a wrong thing to do thought to them yet.

Human nature is evil...

Agreed. I think one of the basic requirements in becoming a socially acceptable member of society is learning how to overcome your childish instincts, and do what you KNOW is right. What I fail to understand is how teenagers, TEENAGERS, can see how behavior like this is acceptable in any fashon, and how putting lives in danger with such antics seems like an attractive prospect.

[AlphaJuno]

So what do ya'll think about spanking? I'm not talking about beating the poor creature enough to death, but just a quick spank.

[*HOT&SMOKING*]

Something that relates. Especially recently I have been reading a lot about how kids are throwing things over freeway over passes. Like rocks, bricks, pieces of wood, ect... And a lot of people have died actually. Why are their parents not watching what they are doing? And why have they not had the concept of that being a wrong thing to do thought to them yet.

Human nature is evil...

Agreed. I think one of the basic requirements in becoming a socially acceptable member of society is learning how to overcome your childish instincts, and do what you KNOW is right. What I fail to understand is how teenagers, TEENAGERS, can behavior like this is acceptable in any fashon, and how putting lives in danger with such antics seems like an attractive prospect.

I totally agree with you in the sense that alot of teenagers cause a helluva lot of shit and they don't care or they see nothing wrong with what they are doing and they should be punished arrested whatever needs to be done to stop them . But please don't generelise (spelling??) , because YES alot of teenagers and alot of the youth are f'd up, but there are a handfull that are not.

Thanks bryan

-H&S Edited April 1, 2008 by *HOT&SMOKING*

[kornkitten42]

hell, i'm all for the belt....... BUT due to society and their views on abuse, i'll at least beat my kid on the rear with my hands if not a belt.

I'll tell you what, My parents TORE my rear up. My ass always knew when I stepped over the line. I got beat with the belt, or incase of my grandmother she made me go pick my own switch. That's the worst. but without this, I would have turned out JUST like my skank whore of a sister. Thank god, they spanked me. My sister is proof that if you do not punish your kids they will run amuck, and never amount to anything , be a burden on soceity and get on welfare.

[*HOT&SMOKING*]

hell, i'm all for the belt....... BUT due to society and their views on abuse, i'll at least beat my kid on the rear with my hands if not a belt.

I'll tell you what, My parents TORE my rear up. My ass always knew when I stepped over the line. I got beat with the belt, or incase of my grandmother she made me go pick my own switch. That's the worst. but without this, I would have turned out JUST like my skank whore of a sister. Thank god, they spanked me. My sister is proof that if you do not punish your kids they will run amuck, and never amount to anything , be a burden on soceity and get on welfare.

I must agree. I was spanked when I was younger and you know what?? It did me bloody good actually. All these kids that run amoc HAVE NO BLOODY discipline.

-H&S

[ilikemyusername]

i think ive figured it out.... its the word cool, its a word that has spanned generations... i think its safe to finally say...COOL let the dogs out! arf arf arf arf

[*HOT&SMOKING*]

i think ive figured it out.... its the word cool, its a word that has spanned generations... i think its safe to finally say...COOL let the dogs out! arf arf arf arf

Way to bring some humor to the argument +1

-H&S

[thecoalition]

Unfortunately today's youth (that is those between ages 0 and about 13) Have really been screwed by their own parenting systems. At this point in time I think that both nature and nurture have been used to the worst case. Kids are not being hit because parents are afraid that they will get into trouble. Those parents that do not believe in physical punishment are not maintaining proper care in their mental and verbal approaches. So the kids are becoming fearless of authority.
Perhaps it was my area or whatever but when I was growing up (mind you im only 22) if i was misbehaving in the neighborhood or at a friends it was down right expected that if my parents didn't beat me then one of the neighbors had that right then and there. So kids in my neighborhood were relatively well behaved.
I also believe that a lot of today's problems relate back to television being many children's baby sitter. Obviously this is a great possibility when you consider the kind of trash that is broadcasted to the youth on the daily. School systems differ though. My mom is a teacher at the high school I went to. She was always prepared to hit a kid if she had to. However, the school was not one that used corporal punishment. So the kids walked all over the teachers because (due to low ambitions) the kids could give a shit if they got suspended. Our principal never expelled anyone from the school system and only gave 3 days of in school suspension for fighting. Personally, if it were me, I would let the kids fight until it was out of their systems. Once it was the person who initiated the fight would be expelled and the other suspended for 2 weeks. Either that or if i was in a private school then i would flog the shit out of the bastards until they were referring to me as sir and asking may i have another.

[r1v3th3ad]

I got the soap and my ass beat...also my gram would smack my hands when I went through the "MINE" stage around 4yrs old
also the groundings and such

[*HOT&SMOKING*]

I got the soap and my ass beat...also my gram would smack my hands when I went through the "MINE" stage around 4yrs old
also the groundings and such

Exactly!

Young kids in this day and age, have jack squat respect and generally don't give a damn.

-H&S

[gaia.plateau]

So what do ya'll think about spanking? I'm not talking about beating the poor creature enough to death, but just a quick spank.

Bearing in mind that I don't have children...

I'm against spanking, or any use of force on a child. There are other ways to keep a child "in line", using violence against someone in their early stages of development, however small that violence is, necessarily legitimizes brutality in their psyche/subconscious/whatever, and teaches them that it is an option for solving problems and making others do what they want. I'm inclined to argue that every "bully" in history was spanked as a child.

I'll bet Ghandi was never spanked.

Instead, set boundaries early on, treat a child as a rational, intelligent individual, and help them to learn the difference between right and wrong, instead of forcing your own ideas, opinions and biases on them. Edited April 1, 2008 by gaia.plateau

[ganesha]

So on the topic of unruly kids, my mom asked me what I thought about the 3rd graders that just got in trouble in Georgia... I had no clue what she was talking about until I read http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/n...016&ref=rss What does everyone think of that??? Nine kids plotting to stab their teacher??? It kind of makes me wonder what types of things the parents are teaching their children...

[gaia.plateau]

So on the topic of unruly kids, my mom asked me what I thought about the 3rd graders that just got in trouble in Georgia... I had no clue what she was talking about until I read http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/n...016&ref=rss What does everyone think of that??? Nine kids plotting to stab their teacher??? It kind of makes me wonder what types of things the parents are teaching their children...

I blame Howie Mandel.

[kornkitten42]

So what do ya'll think about spanking? I'm not talking about beating the poor creature enough to death, but just a quick spank.

Bearing in mind that I don't have children...

I'm against spanking, or any use of force on a child. There are other ways to keep a child "in line", using violence against someone in their early stages of development, however small that violence is, necessarily legitimizes brutality in their psyche/subconscious/whatever, and teaches them that it is an option for solving problems and making others do what they want. I'm inclined to argue that every "bully" in history was spanked as a child.

I'll bet Ghandi was never spanked.

Instead, set boundaries early on, treat a child as a rational, intelligent individual, and help them to learn the difference between right and wrong, instead of forcing your own ideas, opinions and biases on them.

Um. No. What about us children that turned out 100% fine and actual decent humans and a great part of society? We were spanked. Why are we not bullies? Are we destend to hit those that don't do as we want/ say because we were "spanked"? There is a difference between abuse and spanking. A spanking is on the butt, abuse is any other place. You do not spank a child any other place besides the butt. You never spank your child when you are angry and you certianly don't yell while you are doing it.

There is a difference between snaping a child back into reality, assurting that you will not take their crap, and seeing that they are not the boss. They will cry and think you are mean, But after a few times they will learn they need to stop whatever it is that will cause a spanking, and be good.... But i'd rather spank my kid than scream at them. That's what I see parents doing now adays. SCREAMING at their children. Which do you think is worse? Which do you think is going to scare a child more? And which will you think a child is more apt to do back, and also take with them as an "acceptable" way to handle a problem.

I've never hit someone without them hitting me first. I would never dream of slapping someone , or SPANKING someone that is not a child, (and even then, spanking is not a first resort, it's always a last resort after multipule warnings.....) but spanking an adult to handle a problem, is just retarded. Now I do have to say, that most people who were spanked as a child, or at least, the people I know, enjoy spanking during intamacy.


I bet ghandi wasn't spanked- You dont' know that, and for you to assume that, is irrelevant.
Ghandi also said "It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence." So you don't know what his home life was like.

Instead, set boundaries early on, treat a child as a rational, intelligent individual, and help them to learn the difference between right and wrong, instead of forcing your own ideas, opinions and biases on them

Um.... I'm sorry, but every parent forces their ideals on their children, eveything from religion, to politics, to societal behavior. I'm sorry but my 2 year old is not A RATIONAL individual. That little being, doesnt know what that word is or means.

Please don't drink that posion hunny, it could kill you, kid continues since they don't understand what you just said. then that translates to....... aw.. you bad boy, go sit in the corner.

vs. No baby! That is YUCKY! smack them on the butt if they continue,- that makes them think, WOW, I shouldn't touch that!
That sucks!

I was in this situation. My parents did the no baby, please don't touch that, that's poison, it could hurt you... go to time out, and then what did I do? I SNUCK into the kitchen when my mom was in the other room, I pulled open the child proof lock and DRANK lysol....... I then went to the hospital where I was put into a straight jacket , forced to drink charcoal, and could have died.

Next time, I got smacked on the ass....... I cried. I didnt touch it again.


Edited to add- that I don't have a 2 year old, that was ment to say "if I had a 2 year old, my 2 year old is not a rational human being , capable of making rational,functional, complex decisions. That is why you are constantly watching over said 2 year old during the toddler - child stage because they don't know what's going on. Edited April 2, 2008 by kornkitten42

[kornkitten42]

I look at the people that I know where never spanked, or punished and I know a lot of them. They don't know how to set personal boundries, they have been in trouble with the law, they are assholes to their parents, and generally get away with murder. I wish I could whip their butts into line. To many mamby pampby parents that are afriad of their children in this world.

We also don't have any real men in this world anymore. Our nation has sissyfied our men. I also think that has a lot to do with it and society's problems and why we can't raise our children correctly. Children used to FEAR their dads. They knew mom was their ally, dad was the one they feared.

[AlphaJuno]

Kitten, I'm pretty fucking insulted you think there are no men left in the world.

Children shouldn't fear their parents, but they should know that if their asses get out of line, there will be consequences.

But no real men left? That's fucking pathetic.

[ganesha]

I'm a parent.. I have a 13 year old, a 10 year old, and a 7 year old. I spanked them when they were younger. Now I simply only have to tell them not to do something and they listen. If they don't I do other things to punish them, that I've found to be just as effective now. They do well in school, have a lot of friends, and if I say so myself are generally good kids...I think where most people get all crazy about spanking is they don't realize the difference between "spanking" a child and "beating" a child.

Edited to comment to kornkitten....

I agree the mother is there to nurture and love.... The father is there to make them learn they have to follow the rules... That's how I was raised..I think I turned out pretty good..

Edited April 2, 2008 by ganesha

[kornkitten42]

Alpha- I'm sorry you are insulted, looking back, I should have said the majority of men have been sissyfied because there are a real men left in the world, just not as many as there used to be.


My bad.

And yes, I think children SHOULD fear their parents. I'm sorry , but I'm still scared of my parents and i'm 23 years old. I'm not scared of them personally, but i'm scared of what they would say if I screw up, and how disappointed in me they would be. Its a different kind of fear. Not that they will murder me, or hate me.

[AlphaJuno]

Ahahaha, you tool.

P.S. - You don't have a good relationship with your folks if you fear them. Talk to them about it.

[kornkitten42]

Alpha- who is the tool?

and - I actually do have a great relationship with my parents now. I didn't used too, but I did a lot of growing up and since I turned 21 we've been closer than ever. It's kinda sicking actually.

There is a difference between fearing your parents out of fear of abuse and resentment than a fear of them being disappointed in you.

For example:

My parents always told me that if I got pregnant before I got married that they would disown me. They would not take care of me. That kept me from having sex, and when I did finally have sex, I made darn sure to be as careful as possible.

Now i'm 23 years old. If I turned up pregnant right now, I'd still be scared to tell my parents I was pregnant. Reason? I'm still not married. They would still love me, and they wouldn't disown me , and frankly they would probably be uber excited. It's still the fact that I have gone against their wishes and I don't want them disappointed in me.

The differences - I'm now an adult, with her own place, own job, own money, own life, with no financial responsibilities or legal liabilites to my parents.

A child never wants to disappoint their parents. Why does that mean I have a bad relationship with them? Edited April 2, 2008 by kornkitten42

[gaia.plateau]

Going to try to address this vastness with a smattering of points.

• If you fear your parents, father or mother, you by necessity believe that they do not love you unconditionally. That's a perverse relationship. Kids shouldn't fear their parents.

• Using violence to keep a boy in line doesn't make them into a man, it makes them into a thug.
--- What is your measure of "manliness"? Is it a big strapping brute that grunts a lot and wins high school sporting events? Is it a big-time CEO with 25 sports cars and a trophy wife with tits that could raise the titanic with their buoyancy? Is it a burly redneck that beats his wife and children when they won't shut up (my money is on this one)? Or is it someone with principles and determination that doesn't take shit from anyone, but is also wise enough to understand that their opinions and ideas aren't always the right ones?

• Regarding people that you know who have been in trouble with the law, are assholes, etc, firstly how do you know they were never physically disciplined, and secondly how could you possibly know that lack of physical discipline caused said character flaws? Maybe their parents were just stupid.

• I didn't say that everyone who is spanked grows up to be a bully, I wagered that everyone who grows up to be a bully was spanked. You teach a child that violence solves problems, you can't be surprised when they start using violence to solve problems.

• Your own bias clouds your judgment. Not everything our parents did to raise us was the right thing to do, even though it is tempting to think this way and avoid admitting flaws in our own character. I was spanked when I was growing up, a grand total of twice, and just because I've turned out pretty good doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

The reason that parents spank their children is that they don't know what else to do. We don't do it to keep them in line, for their benefit, we do it because we lack the experience and wisdom to discipline them non-violently with effectiveness. It's a selfish action, and I believe (with the vast majority of psychological and sociological research backing me up) that it can have serious consequences for the children subjected to it.

Violence is usually the easiest way, but it is never the right way.

[John Stuart Mill]

They are the sons and daughters of a privileged generation. It is the fate of all societies to face eventual apathy and deterioration. They look towards the future with dissolution and distain. What did their parents achieve from their success? Are they happy? As Herzen wrote, "No one is to blame. It is neither their fault nor ours. It is the misfortune of being born when a whole world is dying"

[kornkitten42]

• If you fear your parents, father or mother, you by necessity believe that they do not love you unconditionally. That's a perverse relationship. Kids shouldn't fear their parents.

* This is why I say there is something wrong with society.Are you saying that you don't think children worry about what we as their parents, will think? Or how we will act? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? There is something WRONG there. A child CONSTANTLY seeks approval of their parents EVERYBODY who has a child, or was a child knows this. If you are telling me you do not care, then you sir, are the one with issues that need to be resolved, because maybe you don't love your parents enough.. You are telling me that when you were a child you did whatever you wanted? You never thought about what your momma or daddy would say or do to you if they found out!* That right there folks is 100% the reason why society is 100% completely fucked up becase kids no longer think they have to answer to anyone for their actions and that is sickning..*
I think i'm pretty damn secure with my family and how I was brought up and how much they love me and the unconditional love is there.


• Using violence to keep a boy in line doesn't make them into a man, it makes them into a thug.

I'm sorry, but like JD says, up until 50 years ago, the family and home life were better than ever. Crime was lower, and families actually acted like families. Parents were accountable for there kids actions, and if you did something wrong, not only would your parents spank you but your neighbors and your teachers!!! It wasn't until our government started interfering with our children and how we raised them did we start having severe issues.

Is it a burly redneck that beats his wife and children when they won't shut up (my money is on this one)?

(If you think this is what makes a man , then you and this nation/ world are in a sad state of affairs. You are also closed minded, and don't read.)

This is what a man is to me. ******************** In my own words**********

Real men- have declined in this world. The reason I say this, [b]Is i look at my dad. I think my dad is a real man.

He loves his country, fought to protect it. Fended for his family with a ferocity that every man should take care of his family and the people he loves. He protected us. He cared for us. He was firm with his children but had a side that we could melt like butter. He loves my mom with a love that I rarely see anymore.

He didn't stay inside all day and play video games. He hunted, he fished, he taught his boys how to protect their sisters, and all the manors they would need one day to find a loving and caring wife. He Showed them how to be a gentleman. Pull out chairs, open doors, just chivalray (sp) That is also a rarity these days. Taught them how to work with their hands, use tools, work on cars, and do well in school. Have a job, a career and how to be "proud". The ability to know the right from wrong and be able to make a informed decision weither that ideal is wrong or right, but done for the right reason.

The boys grew into men. They now follow in his foot steps. They don't let little whiney things bother them. They don't bitch and moan and complain like these other "boys" do. They don't act the ass and pretend to be bad asses just to run their mouth. They only use force when needed.

I don't know. Maybe I have this whole misconception what a "real man is" versus a "momma's boy". I don't want a momma's boy. Give me a man any day


• Your own bias clouds your judgment. Not everything our parents did to raise us was the right thing to do, [b]even though it is tempting to think this way and avoid admitting flaws in our own character. I was spanked when I was growing up, a grand total of twice, and just because I've turned out pretty good doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

************ Hunny i know i have flaws, i never said I was perfect. I never said everything my parents did was perfect, but they damn sure tired their best. And I think they did a damn fine job. To bad MORE parents don't take a more aggressive attitude in parenting. But you need to watch where you cast stones. You admitted you have been tazed at least once? How many times have you been in trouble with the law? *************** Maybe you should have been spanked more?


The reason that parents spank their children is that they don't know what else to do. We don't do it to keep them in line, for their benefit, we do it because we lack the experience and wisdom to discipline them non-violently with effectiveness. It's a selfish action, and I believe (with the vast majority of psychological and sociological research backing me up) that it can have serious consequences for the children subjected to it.

you may have psychological and sociological research but so do I. Including the test of time, before disciplining your child was means to call CPS.

You also don't listen to what I type but I will spell it out for you in complete detail. So you will not be confused. You are not smacking your kid around. You are not beating them to a pulp or humiliating them in public. You give several warnings before you spank a child. It is always a last resort. If the child's behavior does not yield, you promptly take them into a private area, the bathroom whatever, and you tell them why they are being spanked. You never yell at the child while you are spanking him or her. And you don't keep spanking a child you pop them once or twice and it's done. and only on the butt. When it is all over you ask them if they understood why they were spanked. They then tell you why, if not you tell them again. You ask them if they are ready to behave they will say yes, and you walk back out.


Violence is usually the easiest way, but it is never the right way.

Whatever. I hope when you have a kid, and I have a kid, we can have an experiment. I will raise my child to the best of my ability and 30 years down the road we will see who has done the better parenting job.

[kornkitten42]

again- Also adding that I hope you are understanding that spanking is a LAST resort. You try every other alternative first. Then you spank if nothing works.... I'm not advocating as it's being made out to be , that if you want your kid to shut up, so you beat him.

and again, the redneck comment was just assanine. You don't go around hitting your wife. That's a messed up thing to say. Edited April 2, 2008 by kornkitten42