Important Message

[crimsonkingjv]

Zensilk it goes a little deeper than just 'last post'

Not everything is made public, maybe you could just accept the reasoning?

When did you start channeling Dick Cheney?

"Because I said so" should NEVER be an explanation to anyone above the age of 5.

I just want to go on record to say that I think the vendor policy is wrong, and much too strict. I miss the Mya product announcements, and being a cheap lazy bastard, I like hearing about discounts without having to look for them. I also think that hookalife's post was not an attack on the forum, but a rational, logical message explaining why he would not be here anymore and expressing his frustration over what he (and I) think is a misguided policy that hurts the forum.

Keep banning topics and vendors, and we're going to end up with a forum full of "Today I ordered 50g of tobacco and a grommet", r1v3th745d's fascination with bodily excretions, and ban notices.

Behind the scenes must count for something, else our own mod, Sonthert (dba Tangiers) would be off for lack of participation. Note: I am NOT suggesting his banishment.

I also believe that ice buckets work and that when the shisha touches the foil it burns, gets harsh, and makes me cough up a lung. But those deserve their own topics.

... and that women should be put on a pedestal just high enough to see up their skirts.

Amen!

Ohh yeah amen to the other stuff not about women too.

There is no point on voicing opinions unfortunately. I have just come to terms that shit happens, but atleast there's a better community out there.

You know, I am new here but I have to say something on this topic because I think the actions of the Mods really shows the true colors of this site. I also agree that the way this was handled was flat out wrong in my opinion; I think the vendor made a valid statement and was focused on not hurting their customers because they did nothing wrong. I agree that there is a much better and more accepting community out there. This site feels elitist to me and while it may offer good information it does not feel as welcoming as other sites. Perhaps it is just me that feels this way but it is how I feel and no one can tell me I am wrong for it. I just wanted to throw my 2 cents out there for what it is worth. It may be completly off base and if I knew more back story I may feel different but as a new member these types of actions do not make me want to stay here. Take care everyone and keep on smoking. I have no ill wishes toward any of the mods or anyone else in this community. Some times bad things happen, but people have to act on the information that they have. I think the statement "Because I said so" says everything I need to know about this site. Thanks everyone.

[zachslusser]

Zensilk it goes a little deeper than just 'last post'

Not everything is made public, maybe you could just accept the reasoning?

When did you start channeling Dick Cheney?

"Because I said so" should NEVER be an explanation to anyone above the age of 5.

I just want to go on record to say that I think the vendor policy is wrong, and much too strict. I miss the Mya product announcements, and being a cheap lazy bastard, I like hearing about discounts without having to look for them. I also think that hookalife's post was not an attack on the forum, but a rational, logical message explaining why he would not be here anymore and expressing his frustration over what he (and I) think is a misguided policy that hurts the forum.

Keep banning topics and vendors, and we're going to end up with a forum full of "Today I ordered 50g of tobacco and a grommet", r1v3th745d's fascination with bodily excretions, and ban notices.

Behind the scenes must count for something, else our own mod, Sonthert (dba Tangiers) would be off for lack of participation. Note: I am NOT suggesting his banishment.

I also believe that ice buckets work and that when the shisha touches the foil it burns, gets harsh, and makes me cough up a lung. But those deserve their own topics.

... and that women should be put on a pedestal just high enough to see up their skirts.

Amen!

Ohh yeah amen to the other stuff not about women too.

There is no point on voicing opinions unfortunately. I have just come to terms that shit happens, but atleast there's a better community out there.

Do you think it is so strict here on the vendors becuase this site is if i remember correctly is owned by a vendor. albeit that no one really orders from them but if this is the case it would make sense as to why it is so strict on vendors.

[SafeSearchOff]

@Zen
dude, it doesnt matter when their last post was. it matters that they DO participate other than to plug items. we accept regular members going idle all the time -- if a vendor isnt posting, hes not plugging his items either. when they get back, if they post in topics other than topics about their business, then its fair game.

+1 to sariel.

i think that viewing this announcement from HookahLife as an attack of the forum is a bit of extreme twisted logic, it seems like they were just explaining the situation, and letting us know how their business still stands with us.

[hilikus]

Damn mush, you're put in a rough spot. You have to uphold those rules, and then you even have to look like a little bitch for doing it.

[ZenSilk]

Zensilk it goes a little deeper than just 'last post'

Not everything is made public, maybe you could just accept the reasoning?

When did you start channeling Dick Cheney?

"Because I said so" should NEVER be an explanation to anyone above the age of 5.

I just want to go on record to say that I think the vendor policy is wrong, and much too strict. I miss the Mya product announcements, and being a cheap lazy bastard, I like hearing about discounts without having to look for them. I also think that hookalife's post was not an attack on the forum, but a rational, logical message explaining why he would not be here anymore and expressing his frustration over what he (and I) think is a misguided policy that hurts the forum.

Keep banning topics and vendors, and we're going to end up with a forum full of "Today I ordered 50g of tobacco and a grommet", r1v3th745d's fascination with bodily excretions, and ban notices.

Behind the scenes must count for something, else our own mod, Sonthert (dba Tangiers) would be off for lack of participation. Note: I am NOT suggesting his banishment.

I also believe that ice buckets work and that when the shisha touches the foil it burns, gets harsh, and makes me cough up a lung. But those deserve their own topics.

... and that women should be put on a pedestal just high enough to see up their skirts.

Amen!

Ohh yeah amen to the other stuff not about women too.

There is no point on voicing opinions unfortunately. I have just come to terms that shit happens, but atleast there's a better community out there.

Do you think it is so strict here on the vendors becuase this site is if i remember correctly is owned by a vendor. albeit that no one really orders from them but if this is the case it would make sense as to why it is so strict on vendors.

We shall never know, but i'm sure alot of people think that. Would make sense right? But you have to notice that strict vendor rules were never imposed until now. The vendors did have to participate, that was a new rule put in place, and most of them don't participate in correspondence to the Community (The Discussion thread mainly, where the vendors could help out, I guess), but there is another secret "deeper" way in which they do participate, which I don't know anything about.

[Balthazar]

Do you think it is so strict here on the vendors becuase this site is if i remember correctly is owned by a vendor. albeit that no one really orders from them but if this is the case it would make sense as to why it is so strict on vendors.

Sounds like a pretty weak conspiracy theory to me. While I do agree that a rule that says vendors will get banned if they don't post X posts every X day, suggesting that this is done out of the simple goal of "more profit" with nothing more to back it up than "site is owned by a vendor" is pretty weak. HookahForum has always been very tolerating, and I can not think of a single case where anyone has been denied access to the forums without a good reason. Vendors are basically offered to do as much promoting of their sites and offers as they like, and the only thing they are asked to do is to participate in topics (besides their own) every now and then. Thing is, this is a community, and if spending a couple of minutes one a week contributing to the discussions is to much to ask for, well, then I completely understand that the mod's choose to react.

It's an arbitrary thing, guys like Neal and Sonthert have without a doubt been very helpful to a lot of members, and I don't mean helpful just by promoting TDP or Tangiers.

We could always start up a "hookahforumads.com", and fill it with flash-based ads and links to the various sites.

PS: Sorry for the bad English

[SafeSearchOff]

hookah forum IS owned by HookahKings.com

[Balthazar]

Yup. And?

Edit: If it wasn't made clear, my point is that other vendors have been grantes full access to the forums, and do as much promoting and advertising in the vendor area that they could want. Edited May 21, 2008 by Balthazar

[Big Boss]

Is Sonthert still around?

[liquidglass]

Most (not all, if you think it's you, then it's you) of you guys are being ridiculous about this. If you reaction reflects your age, you're probably not old enough to be on here anyway. (read between the lines).


Go back and read the original post. He says that they have a choice either become more active, or leave. So my guess is the admin talked to them and told them they'd like them to be more active and they were trying to clear out vendors that weren't participating (because forum members would rather buy from vendors who 'walk among them'). So this particular vendor probably said "oh yeah up yours, i'm too busy, so I'm leaving" So instead of leaving like they said they made sure to make one final post, in which they did play the martyr by basically saying the new policy is "harsh"....so let's get this right, the new policy is harsh...because they disagree with it? They were given a choice and they chose Not to participate more. Then they act like they're being mistreated when it was their choice.


Now if they were just banned straight up with no opportunity to participate, yes that would be harsh and unfair. but let's think about this, you guys are saying it's unfair when A) they chose not to participate more (other things are more important) and they obviously weren't banned yet because they started this thread.
I'm not sure how sensitive you have to be to feel like that's mistreatment but change your pampers.

As far as the "because we said so" thing means that they either don't feel like they need to justify their decision because you can figure it out yourself or they don't feel like explaining it if it's going to be a lot of stuff.

[wpw36]

the entire reason they said "because we say so" or whatever is it is a long drawn out story that they dont feel like typing or a whole bunch of not legal but policy shit we dont all wanna read through anyways

[liquidglass]

the entire reason they said "because we say so" or whatever is it is a long drawn out story that they dont feel like typing or a whole bunch of not legal but policy shit we dont all wanna read through anyways

bingo

[chromecarz00]

Im gonna go ahead and put the scenario in perspective for everyone.
You own a bakery. Very busy, lots of people, all talking and eating your goods. Now there are a bunch of people from Dunkin, Krispy, Ralphs, and a bunch of other places, clad head to toe in their respective companies. Some are laughing with others and having a good time, some are sitting with their chest puffed up going BLAH! You think hmmm. These people are in my store, but they are my competitors. Should I let them stay?
2 ways to go here.
1) Kick them out, but get a bad rep for it.
2) let them stay, as long as they dont preach what they sell. The clothes are bad enough.
Adrock picked option 2. He gave each a thread, allowed them to stay, as long as they werent trying to just get stuff from the community, and actually part of the community. However people who were just going BLAH were kicked. Now hookahlife had a choice to stay but made the decision to go, and he went out with his hands tied by security shouting I love you all.
Thats whats going on here.
Mods have the right idea, but the implementation is wrong IMHO.
Thats all.


Sorry if it sucks but midterms just ended.

[NUBBS]

LAME!


Sad to see you go.

[mushrat]

ok..here's what happened...

we have the rule about vndors, because well, this iste isn't just for free advertising. As said before, its a comunity of people who come together and discuss hookahs. NOte the discuss part. yes, the site is owned and paid for my hookahkings. Do you see any banner ads? Special threads beyond their vendor thread which is just like EVERY other vendors thread? Did most of you even KNOW who owns this place? So the owners, who do compete with every other vendor out there, take no special liberties with the fact they could turn this into their own private amusement park. All we asked is that if you are going to take advantage of the international reach and popularity of this forum is that you act like a member of the community. If you are going to get something extra out of the forum, like exposure for your vendor site that you also participate in the cmmunity. Is this too much to ask for?

You'll note Hookahlife suddenly found the time to post not one but 2 posts in a matter of minutes. Why couldn't they have taken the same amount of time to post in ANY other section in the forum every few days.

They, and a number of other Vendors all received a pm that reminded them of the rules they agreed to before getting threads. We get them each to agree before we set up their Vendor threads. They were asked to please increase their non-vendor related posting or face the removal of their Vendor threads. Several responded with "we've been busy but we'll get back on it" several haven't replied, and HL decided to post the martyr thread.
They could have kept the personal account if it hadn't been used to circumvent the ban on the vendor account.

Imagine the donut shop with dunken donuts and crispy cream setting up little shops in YOUR donut shop and not even paying you rent....

Sorry you guys think we're being draconian, but if he didnt have rules then how would we keep every spamming chinese hookah vendor from setting up shop? If the rules apply to fly by night vendors who don't intend t participate, how can we allow more relaible vendors to stay who also have no intention of contributing to the forum?

You'll notice we also don't allow contests sponsored by a particular vendor, that is like them paying for extra exposure at th cost of coughing up fee goodies. Not fair to companies that just want to post their stuff and add to the general discussion like good members of the community.

For the record, the last time HL posted anything not related to their own business was Feb 14th. Over 3 months ago. you'd think if this forum was so important to them they could have found 10 minutes in that 3 months to participate?

[Scoop]

does it even matter, they said peace, and said heres the discount if you want it.

ok, they are gone. meh, they were cool, but im not losing out on any sleep because of it.

[ZenSilk]

Why don't you make it non-vendor then? Edited May 21, 2008 by ZenSilk

[oolatec]

Meh... vendors have lives too and can sometimes get busy with said lives outside of posting here.

Meh. That's all.

[Click]

They had 281 posts in one year, so .77 posts a day.

I dunno man.

[cymptom]

What puzzles me is that the rule seems to affect the opposite of what it sets out to do. If I remember correctly, the rule came about as a response to the question of how to allow vendors to participate on the forum while ensuring that their presence does not damage the quality of the community in any way. For some reason, someone decided that this would be best accomplished by requiring vendors to pretty much act as though they are a normal member of the forum. We encourage them to become a part of the community and obtain the same kind of marketing leverage that the rule is supposed to prevent.

Why do we allow -- and, in fact, require -- vendors to integrate themselves into the consumer-based community of the forum? What does the community gain from the required "non-vendor" posting by vendors? If you ask me, controlling the participation of vendors with the best interest of the consumer community on the forum means just the opposite -- a) Prohibiting vendors from any kind of personal involvement with the community, meaning they are ONLY allowed to post in reference to their product; restricting vendor posting to the vendor area and related topics ["related topics" would need to be clearly defined...]; and c) clearly marking the user's vendor status by creating a vendor group, or something along those lines.

Don't get me wrong -- I appreciate the participation of guys like Tarik and Eric and would be sad to strip them of their personality on the forum. But I do think it would be in the best interest of the forum to have these kinds of restrictions in place.

Seriously though -- and somebody answer this -- how is vendor participation made any less dangerous by the "non-vendor" posting requirement (which in itself is not absolutely possible because they are, in fact, vendors)? How is a vendor who posts once a month to announce new products more dangerous to the community than a vendor who integrates him/herself into the community, befriends Tom, Dick, Harry, the mods, admins, and posts an ultimately inseparable mixture of personal contribution and self-promotion?

[mushrat]

Why don't you make it non-vendor then?

huh?

[r1v3th3ad]

Zensilk it goes a little deeper than just 'last post'

Not everything is made public, maybe you could just accept the reasoning?

When did you start channeling Dick Cheney?

"Because I said so" should NEVER be an explanation to anyone above the age of 5.

I just want to go on record to say that I think the vendor policy is wrong, and much too strict. I miss the Mya product announcements, and being a cheap lazy bastard, I like hearing about discounts without having to look for them. I also think that hookalife's post was not an attack on the forum, but a rational, logical message explaining why he would not be here anymore and expressing his frustration over what he (and I) think is a misguided policy that hurts the forum.

Keep banning topics and vendors, and we're going to end up with a forum full of "Today I ordered 50g of tobacco and a grommet", r1v3th745d's fascination with bodily excretions, and ban notices.

Behind the scenes must count for something, else our own mod, Sonthert (dba Tangiers) would be off for lack of participation. Note: I am NOT suggesting his banishment.

I also believe that ice buckets work and that when the shisha touches the foil it burns, gets harsh, and makes me cough up a lung. But those deserve their own topics.

... and that women should be put on a pedestal just high enough to see up their skirts.

thanks?

[SafeSearchOff]

reading back, i do see the malice in hookah-life's post

i also DO know all the rules that were agreed on a few months back

i just want to know why the big deal out of this post? i mean, they announced that they were going to take the no more posts ever way out, and wanted to let everyone know they are still extending the discount, with a few other bad connotational words thrown in about the mods...

[mushrat]

What puzzles me is that the rule seems to affect the opposite of what it sets out to do. If I remember correctly, the rule came about as a response to the question of how to allow vendors to participate on the forum while ensuring that their presence does not damage the quality of the community in any way. For some reason, someone decided that this would be best accomplished by requiring vendors to pretty much act as though they are a normal member of the forum. We encourage them to become a part of the community and obtain the same kind of marketing leverage that the rule is supposed to prevent.

Why do we allow -- and, in fact, require -- vendors to integrate themselves into the consumer-based community of the forum? What does the community gain from the required "non-vendor" posting by vendors? If you ask me, controlling the participation of vendors with the best interest of the consumer community on the forum means just the opposite -- a) Prohibiting vendors from any kind of personal involvement with the community, meaning they are ONLY allowed to post in reference to their product; restricting vendor posting to the vendor area and related topics ["related topics" would need to be clearly defined...]; and c) clearly marking the user's vendor status by creating a vendor group, or something along those lines.

Don't get me wrong -- I appreciate the participation of guys like Tarik and Eric and would be sad to strip them of their personality on the forum. But I do think it would be in the best interest of the forum.

Seriously though -- and somebody answer this -- how is vendor participation made any less dangerous by the "non-vendor" posting requirement (which in itself is not absolutely possible because they are, in fact, vendors)? How is a vendor who posts once a month to announce new products more dangerous to the community than a vendor who integrates him/herself into the community, befriends Tom, Dick, Harry, the mods, admins, and posts an ultimately inseparable mixture of personal contribution and self-promotion?

It's not a matter of danger..its a matter of participating in the hookah community. This is a forum. Show me a few forums that allow companies to advertise on them that arent sponsors? This place is FIRST for the discussion of the hookah lifestyle. If a vendor wants to take advantage of that, fine, but they had better also be fulfilling the first reason for the forum being here..discussing hookah.


why else be here....?

[cymptom]

To me, encouraging vendors to become a part of the consumer community is worse than simply letting them post official announcements in a designated area. You're allowing advertisement either way... why not attempt to control it? Are we so desperate for active members that we'll grant vendors advertising privileges just for their participation in discussion?