Ultra Hookah "ice" Chamber

[pyroguy_3]

Hi all, brand new to the forum and looking to purchase/make my first hookah. I thought I might add some of my experience with liquid nitrogen to this discussion. I am a chemistry graduate student in Illinois, and use liquid nitrogen on a daily basis as a gas trap for the vacuum pump we use here in lab. Liquid nitrogen has a temperature of about -200 Centigrade, so it is all too possible to burn yourself. It actually does feel like you're getting burned, no fun. I would like to address a few safety concerns I have:
1. don't ever put the liquid nitrogen in a sealed container that was not designed to hold liquid nitrogen. As the liquid begins to warm up it will revert back to a gas, which can cause explosions.
2. Since it is so incredibly cold, don't put whatever you're storing it in under any strain because materials become very brittle under intense cold. However, it's quite fun to freeze things and then throw them on the floor to watch them shatter.
3. Also, I'm not exactly sure how the cooling apparatus is designed, but I would be weary of super-cooled air being pulled into your lungs. I can imagine that would hurt like hell.

Anyway, sounds like an interesting idea, just be aware that this stuff can be very dangerous when not handled correctly.

Also take note that huffing isopropyl, denatured, or methyl alcohol is a good way to pass out and/or kill yourself. So if using it to super-cool make sure the smoke does not come in contact with the liquid.

[Mephysteaux]

I'm also new, and a paintball guy myself.

You probably had a CO2 tank, holds liquid Carbon Dioxide, which should behave pretty much the same way as liquid nitrogen. The tank exploding was probably gas coming out of the safety valve, which releases pressure before the tank itself physically explodes. If your ice chamber isn't completely air tight, it should be fine.

Me personally, I'd like to do something like this, but I didn't have my own hookah up until about 10 minutes ago. Usually I'd just put some ice and liquor in the base to get it cold, then put the base in a bowl with ice, salt and water to keep it cold.

[K1024]

I'm also new, and a paintball guy myself.

You probably had a CO2 tank, holds liquid Carbon Dioxide, which should behave pretty much the same way as liquid nitrogen. The tank exploding was probably gas coming out of the safety valve, which releases pressure before the tank itself physically explodes. If your ice chamber isn't completely air tight, it should be fine.

Me personally, I'd like to do something like this, but I didn't have my own hookah up until about 10 minutes ago. Usually I'd just put some ice and liquor in the base to get it cold, then put the base in a bowl with ice, salt and water to keep it cold.

see thats the problem, if it isnt completely air tight then how is he storing it for later uses? and if it doesnt have a safety valve then whats stopping it from exploding violently? i know even with the safety valve my tank still went about a foot into the air and spun around a bunch, and those are much heavier than the stem for a hookah...

[Mephysteaux]

True. But if you just put liquid nitrogen in a sealed container, it's not going to just stay cold. I think the act of releasing a gas will chill it, though. It's been a while since I was in chemistry class, but I think I still have a handle on my gas laws, I'll see if I can apply this.

So, since pv=nRt (pressure x volume = moles of gas (mass, effectively) x constant x temperature), taking some amount of gas under pressure, and then releasing it into the air so it takes up the same volume with less pressure will effectively reduce the temperature (so, lowering p will lower t, assuming v and n stay that same.) Or I guess another way to put it, if an amount of gas has a certain amount of thermal energy and expands, then that energy is spread out, essentially making it feel colder.

Or again with the paintball analogy. A CO2 tank is filled for a large, higher pressure tank. When you first get it, it's cold, frost will form on the outside even in 90 degree heat. Give it 15 minutes, and it feels normal. If you hook it to your marker, let off a bunch of shots too fast, the release in pressure will cause it to get cold again. Tank might get frosty again, and I've even shot bits of snow out of my gun during the summer (supercooled CO2 freezing moisture in the air, maybe?)

Actually, come to think of it, maybe next time I'm on a weekend paintball outing I can somehow rig something up with a CO2 tank to chill the smoke. I could probably rig something up, I'll post here if an when I do.

So, basically, just storing liquid nitrogren in your ice chamber won't do anything after it's warmed up, you'll need to replenish it, probably after every smoking session. If you have it in a high pressure container and put in a low pressure container, that will chill it.

But again, using liquid nitrogen is probably dangerous. Like the guy a couple posts down said, liquid nitrogen is about -200C. I saw on an episode on Man vs. Wild, the host was in Siberia, said that once the air temperature got down to about -80F (which is about -62C), you'd get frostbite inside your lungs. I'd imagine the water in your base would freeze first, but still, the thought of freezing my internal organs and getting metal and glass shards in me doesn't quite justify a thicker cooler smoke. That's just me, though, maybe I'm just not enough of a hookah enthusiast.

[K1024]

So, since pv=nRt (pressure x volume = moles of gas (mass, effectively) x constant x temperature), taking some amount of gas under pressure, and then releasing it into the air so it takes up the same volume with less pressure will effectively reduce the temperature (so, lowering p will lower t, assuming v and n stay that same.) Or I guess another way to put it, if an amount of gas has a certain amount of thermal energy and expands, then that energy is spread out, essentially making it feel colder.

actually if it was very well sealed, it would be at a constant pressure and volume, so thus temperature would not be able to change. however if it started to warm up then pressure or volume would increase, which is what would lead to the explosion.

these were his literal words about his liquid nitrogen chamber : "It requires no re filling, no maintainance. just store, (when not in use) inside a box lagged with foam insulation. any time yopu wanna use it, plug it in, enjoy super cold smoke, with no stress of set up or clean up!!!"

[ilikemyusername]

now wait a minute, this guy can get an ice chamber for a hookah and fill it with liquid nitrogen (cough cough bullshit cough) store it for future use and cant take pictures...(cough cough endthread cough) i dont like flaming but i say let it begin! Edited March 16, 2009 by ilikemyusername

[Punx Clever]

You guys talking about the exploding CO2 tanks are a bit confused...

CO2 in your paintball tanks is liquid due to pressure. You heat it up, the pressure in the tank increases... too hot and the burst disk (safety valve) blows so the tank doesn't.

LN2 (liquid Nitrogen) is in liquid form because of extremely cold temperatures. No worries about it exploding so long as he doesn't have an airtight seal on the LN2 chamber... and as long as it was REALLY well insulated the LN2 could stick around for quite a while. But, that being said, I don't think you are gonna have enough insulation to keep the LN2 very long around a hookah stem.

[K1024]

You guys talking about the exploding CO2 tanks are a bit confused...

CO2 in your paintball tanks is liquid due to pressure. You heat it up, the pressure in the tank increases... too hot and the burst disk (safety valve) blows so the tank doesn't.

LN2 (liquid Nitrogen) is in liquid form because of extremely cold temperatures. No worries about it exploding so long as he doesn't have an airtight seal on the LN2 chamber... and as long as it was REALLY well insulated the LN2 could stick around for quite a while. But, that being said, I don't think you are gonna have enough insulation to keep the LN2 very long around a hookah stem.

im assuming that he had an airtight seal since he said he had an airtight seal.

[theophylaktos]

now wait a minute, this guy can get an ice chamber for a hookah and fill it with liquid nitrogen (cough cough bullshit cough) store it for future use and cant take pictures...(cough cough endthread cough) i dont like flaming but i say let it begin!

I agree until I see pics I'm skeptical about the whole thing.

I found that a Styrofoam cooler filled with ice and salt mixed then the hookah base placed inside works for me. You can even cut a hole in the cover so if someone knocks the cooler your hookah doesn't tip.

[Punx Clever]

Going back and reading it, he never said he had an airtight seal. He was mistaken about the container for LN2 that you fill up at the gas supplier... it's basically just a big thermos. Point is to reduce heat loss not contain pressure.

All of this is doable. Practical? hell no. But still doable.

Lets put it this way: Artificial insemination for farm animals is something any farmer can do. The "seed" is stored in a container kept cold by LN2 for about a year. It is very well insulated, but not by any means air-tight.

[K1024]

Lets put it this way: Artificial insemination for farm animals is something any farmer can do. The "seed" is stored in a container kept cold by LN2 for about a year. It is very well insulated, but not by any means air-tight.

we have one on our farm and its pretty air tight...but i understand what you mean a bout not being completly airtight, obviously it wouldnt be otherwise they could explode.

his thing isnt very well insulated as it cant really be? It was one of the regular ice chambers with liquid nitrogen inside...i doubt we will know until this guy comes back..