When Does One Forgo Pleasures In Life?

[Bulldog_916]

I've been stressed for a while about finances in my and my family's lives. With the prices of EVERYTHING going up and really no growth in the job markets or any sort of wage increases in recent months, it looks like my ability to keep up with my bills will slowly decline. I will be getting a nominal raise in wage soon with my review at work. This will help some, but not nearly enough. My question to you is two fold:

1. When do you feel like you cant justify a new purchase like hookah, even when you have the money on hand to do so? Is it when you have absolutely no "extra" money in your account? Is it when you have a comfortable cushion you dont want to let go, say...1000 dollars for the sake of argument?

2. When you've cut back on everything you do as I have....what more can you do? I've cut back on fishing, driving (no more long trips anywhere), movies (eliminated), dinners out (eliminated), discretionary spending (like books, clothes, etc) cut down immensely. I only buy clothes maybe once a year, books I practically never buy save for maybe 3 a year.

I suppose I could have not bought this TV, but if you lived with the sound my TV made before I got this one, it was driving me insane.

I want to go back to school to attain my Bachelor's Degree like I've planned to do, but I know that if I do I will likely be at least flat broke before I graduate. Questions swirling like "will there be a market for computer scientists when I'm finished or will we be importing the help?" My second option is to take on another job and keep myself above water for a year or 2. I would basically hinge my schooling on my economic status at that point. I want also to be able to live a decent life while I'm young. Be able to have memories of the good times when I'm slogging away toward retirement (if there will be such a thing).

Well....comment if you have them.

[Prince_BlackAdder]

I Hear your pain Bully D.

Things are getting to the very real point right now that I am seriously considering handing the keys to my house back and telling the bank to shove it up their asses. Sideways. Then file for my own bankruptcy.

This world has been sold a great white elephant and whilst we were so busy spending we were being quietly being fucked in the back door with lubrication.

I'm not much of a paranoid delusionist, but brownman's recent posts have given rise to thoughts.

Prince Blackadder of a right rotten borough.

[iron molly black]

We are in some very uncertain times, and things, unfortunately, don't look to be getting much better. My attitude is that if a purchase is going to give me a lot of enjoyment for the money, and the money is not THAT much, that I will sacrifice somewhere else to make up for it. Let's say to purchase a hookah or something like that.

As far as education and what career to go into, that is a tough one. I will say if I had to do it over again, I would have gone into a trade (I have a Masters degree). It's pretty hard to export a trade overseas, and even though some trades depend on construction, existing systems need to be maintained. Just my two cents and hindsight. Maybe something you could do now relatively quickly, and then pursue a college degree later. I think things like heating and air conditioning don't take very long, and are in demand. Electrician pays more, and then you can go electrical engineering from there. Even if things go solar or alternative energy, they still need wiring. I think there will always be jobs in that field.

I am very worried about the big crash that may possibly be coming our way, things are not looking good. Next year will probably be a veggie garden, and I am thinking about brushing up on my gun skills, and possibly hunting some deer. Not something I particularly like to do, but I figure I should know how and it is due to needing the food, not for sport. Am looking into some solar panels as well, and possibly a wood stove. The more I can do "off the grid" the better.

BTW Blackadder, I love your work.

[Bulldog_916]

I just feel like life isnt going in the direction it was supposed to when I graduated high school. I had this idealized vision that I would go to college, which I did, graduate, which I did, and then proceed to live a moderately prosperous life....that part has been the tough one. I'm trying to help my parents keep this house that I've lived in since I was in the second grade. I'm not even sure I want them to keep it because living in an apartment (for all its pains) is going to be less expensive in the long term than owning a slowly depreciating house. We need a huge influx of some sort of industry to keep us from going into a depression. I'm starting to think the recession is a plus because we may learn to live better on less money. This may spur more community-based support like it used to be way back when towns depended on themselves for economic influx. People may do more moving around into areas that are nearer to their work, requiring less fuel to get from place to place. I really hope this whole thing teaches us all a lesson that the "every man for himself" mentality just doesnt work anymore.

[jezter6]

I know the feeling. I'm starting to live the 'off the grid' lifestyle myself (mostly due to my piss poor credit situation). I know how to make my own beer, cheese, and bread. I'm trying to live a lifestyle less reliant on corporate america like WalMart.

I know the feeling about never feeling like you have enough to justify buying more. I have money and I could buy a new TV like I've wanted for 6 months, or buy a new hookah and some cool accessories, but each time I do I realize that I might not have enough NEXT month to pay my rent, so I'd better keep whatever I have in my acount when I can.

[SimplexCoda]

Ya i just got done sayin to some friends that the economy in America is horrid and I do not forsee it comming back in my lifetime. To answer your questions though. I dont know.

[Brownman18]

I Hear your pain Bully D.

Things are getting to the very real point right now that I am seriously considering handing the keys to my house back and telling the bank to shove it up their asses. Sideways. Then file for my own bankruptcy.

This world has been sold a great white elephant and whilst we were so busy spending we were being quietly being fucked in the back door with lubrication.

I'm not much of a paranoid delusionist, but brownman's recent posts have given rise to thoughts.

Prince Blackadder of a right rotten borough.

At least its affecting someone, lol.

Purchase a fire arm anyway its the best way to go. In canada we cannot do this it is illegal.


When a recession hits the last thing one wants to be left with is nothing to defend themselves. You still have that legal right at least.


Supreme court is in the process of fucking up the second amendment right soon you'll need a permit.

http://www.coloradoan.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...ATES01/80626023


That would be my advice anyway, legally in Canada i cannot get a firearm period so we are all kinda screwed.


Should the economy ever go in the shitter (it appears to be doing this the only matter now is WHEN which nobody can predict)

Also if you have no gun you can't really hunt or anything anyways should you loose your job at least not easily so your kinda fucked.

The ulterior here is we can hope to rely on Fema to save us but they clearly do a piss poor job as seen in New Orleans.

[Brownman18]

oh watch this if you can get it to load its from another forum

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_07h8yOUb7w&feature=related

part 2 has the fireworks

http://youtube.com/watch?v=U-LAgEY4Ink

you can search the title of the video and find the other parts from you tube.

But again this is the new world we want to live in ?


watch the whole thing through.


The camera is now a weapon remeber, alot of officers perceive it as a weapon.


What a wonderful state we live in a nice Police State.


The police have to raise ALOT OF TAXES now because the debt is out of control.
Edited June 30, 2008 by Brownman18

[BrotherBuford]

I don't see even rising prices as all doom and gloom, though. There is a chance that rising fuel costs will have a benefit of sorts, at least for the US. Previously, it made sense from an economic standpoint to offshore manufacturing and just ship the finished goods here, but with fuel costs what they are it's beginning to be cheaper to manufacture at home. This very well may revitalize the manufacturing sector of the US, and with it give the dollar a little backbone back. There is a silver lining to the poison cloud.

I have to say that I am DAMN lucky I managed to be in the position I'm in. Right now I can pay a mortgage and other bills and still have enough to put a decent chunk into savings (or other forms of static wealth not tied to the dollar, like gold or silver). If the dollar at some later point does get some strength back, the interest rate on my mortgage is fixed, so in effect it'll be a discount on the rate I'm paying now as a dollar will go further.

Not everyone is in that position, and I myself had a few really bad years that I could barely make ends meet. I had to get off my ass and figure out how I could manage and did have to cut a lot of expenses. By doing so, though, I did get almost entirely out of debt (mortgage notwithstanding). It takes a little sacrifice at least for the short term - I put most all of my income to paying debts, which are for the most part gone now. I once thought that a $13,000 high-interest debt I had was insurmountable, but after figuring out a budget for paying it back by using as much as I could afford and accounting for interest, I killed it in a little over a year.

Like I said, though, I've been as little lucky. I landed a good job back in 2000 and have stuck with it, and have two incomes since I'm married now. My wife isn't as well-off financially due to her student loan debts and lower-paying job, but at least I can take up the slack if necessary due to my positioning and still have cash left over.

You do have to forgo some disposable income at times, but there is a payoff in the end. As things stand now, if you have a short-term loan you need to get cracking on it. Interest on those is nothing to sneeze at, and for at least the short term the dollar is weak. As a dollar does not go as far as it did, and is still declining, you're paying even more than the dollar value would indicate if you stretch it out. I'm hoping that at some point market conditions will lead to a rebound in the dollar, which I'm betting on for a long-term loan like a mortgage.

[Brownman18]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=767295


That more or less is the problem as i view it.


We spent all of our creditors money to finance this nation building process, now we have none left.

So the next source for nation building is going to be from our pockets by way of some fucked up fiscal policy from the great gov thats fucking us over to begin with. This often means taxes because Death and Taxes are guaranteed.


Also we have no intention of stopping this nation building process, and the sad truth is nobody in America really wants another war but Iran is going to happen either way.


http://investigate911.se/Olbermanns_Special_Comment.html

Testimony of the American Soldier.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9012


I cant really go around looking for proper evidence that you'll want to see, but all that is the best i can do from filtering but the point remains.


we are the problem partly, we are trying to solve problems based on an old method of thinking (Rape and Pillage)

This is only going to lead us to one place, open Warfare.


Now just think about it, we spent all of China's cash and fucked them over, we go in werever we please and take what we want.


They are probably more afraid of our leadership then we should be of theirs, because we are superior militarily.

The problem is should any of these parties ever go nuclear, then nobody is a winner thats the benefit of mutually assured destruction, that was the big reason we had such a nice section of peace from 1950-now.


Now that clause has been removed, anything can happen now once the open warfare starts.


Oh and please dont think Obama is our saviour, that motherfucker is this jackass's cousin.
Edited June 30, 2008 by Brownman18

[Brownman18]

I don't see even rising prices as all doom and gloom, though. There is a chance that rising fuel costs will have a benefit of sorts, at least for the US. Previously, it made sense from an economic standpoint to offshore manufacturing and just ship the finished goods here, but with fuel costs what they are it's beginning to be cheaper to manufacture at home. This very well may revitalize the manufacturing sector of the US, and with it give the dollar a little backbone back. There is a silver lining to the poison cloud.

I have to say that I am DAMN lucky I managed to be in the position I'm in. Right now I can pay a mortgage and other bills and still have enough to put a decent chunk into savings (or other forms of static wealth not tied to the dollar, like gold or silver). If the dollar at some later point does get some strength back, the interest rate on my mortgage is fixed, so in effect it'll be a discount on the rate I'm paying now as a dollar will go further.

Not everyone is in that position, and I myself had a few really bad years that I could barely make ends meet. I had to get off my ass and figure out how I could manage and did have to cut a lot of expenses. By doing so, though, I did get almost entirely out of debt (mortgage notwithstanding). It takes a little sacrifice at least for the short term - I put most all of my income to paying debts, which are for the most part gone now. I once thought that a $13,000 high-interest debt I had was insurmountable, but after figuring out a budget for paying it back by using as much as I could afford and accounting for interest, I killed it in a little over a year.

Like I said, though, I've been as little lucky. I landed a good job back in 2000 and have stuck with it, and have two incomes since I'm married now. My wife isn't as well-off financially due to her student loan debts and lower-paying job, but at least I can take up the slack if necessary due to my positioning and still have cash left over.

You do have to forgo some disposable income at times, but there is a payoff in the end. As things stand now, if you have a short-term loan you need to get cracking on it. Interest on those is nothing to sneeze at, and for at least the short term the dollar is weak. As a dollar does not go as far as it did, and is still declining, you're paying even more than the dollar value would indicate if you stretch it out. I'm hoping that at some point market conditions will lead to a rebound in the dollar, which I'm betting on for a long-term loan like a mortgage.

Yes but realistically you can only pay off debts based on the system in place.

The problem with all of our debts is that the system was so rigged in the first place, it is the bankers and the corporations which should suffer the brunt of the tax and repayment.


How can you take an asset such as a house and pay it off over even 25-30 years when your very government is giving the jobs away by its stupid ideology of globalization.

You can't.

All those people loosing their homes did everything right they based paying off their mortgage over a fixed term, but nobody could envision how shitty the economy could actually be.


For example the unemployment rate, that is actually only the rate at which those who have no jobs and are looking.

Those that fall into poverty and homelessness don't tend to show up on unemployment rate statistics, they show up at soup lines.

I should add soup lines or often times they can fall into gang warefare and other societal ills as well.
Edited June 30, 2008 by Brownman18

[BrotherBuford]

I'm not saying the system isn't rigged (it is), but you have to at least try to play along within it to get by. All money is is an instrument of debt, it just shifts it from one person to another.

[Brownman18]

Yea but speaking from Canada as thats the geographic location i live at

we are kind of screwed to begin with

And Harper singled out the oilsands in that speech, saying his government has taken a "get tough" approach on oilsands developers.

"Our targets (for emissions reductions) in the oilsands go beyond the standards for other industries," Harper said.

Gotta love the oil sands!

They say the Harper government's emissions targets will not bring about absolute reductions in emissions, but only reductions in the relative emissions per each barrel of oil produced. So, even though per-barrel pollution may be decreasing, overall greenhouse gas pollution from the oilsands is estimated to triple over the next decade, according to the latest estimates from Environment Canada.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.ht...7e-8fe7a3d9b10f



All taken from the same article.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe...=cr%3DcountryCA

Google source to find it.


Then we have the EU and China working with Brazil to make ethanol cost effective.

But a large powerhouse within north america does not want to make the change, its a loss of control.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe...=cr%3DcountryCA

solution has always existed one thats not corn based.

For obvious reasons i can't go into methanol but the idea behind it is we have the tech to place that into cars today, they are doing it in brazil.


And American FDI is helping the problem but its also killing the problem by having tariffs on all ethanol wether hemp based or corn based is being stung by a nasty 50 cent tariff?

At the heart of the issue is U.S. ethanol policy. Despite the Bush Administration's explicit support for increased U.S. ethanol consumption, the United States maintains a tariff of 54 cents per gallon for imported ethanol. This tariff limits U.S. ethanol imports and creates a higher domestic price than would otherwise result from a more open market.

http://www.policyinnovations.org/ideas/bri...gs/data/ethanol



Solution seems to be more fucked up for no reason.

Castro fears that it will kill the prices of food for the poor of latin america, which it will, but at least it will save america.

Or we could all just do methanol and go the hemp route, then have food and gas..

The obvious problem is this is entirely pointless because big oil is in control.


Shit i missed this main point.

For as long as every free citizen of this world is worried about his debt and busting his ass change will never come from this one very reason.

Your national debt is a collection of all the money borrowed to massacre people more or less, as is every country on the globe so the cause of the problem is the federal reserve.

You can't forget anything and just let it go if your always paranoid about making repayments.

Thats why they got us by the balls (speaking from the N.A citizen point of view)

Expect much more beatings and police abuse as they try to keep control.
Edited June 30, 2008 by Brownman18