Anyone Hear Of The Km Kahraman?

[Rani]

Okay....

The metallurgy knowledge in this forum is really, really, bad. Y'all need to do some heavy reading before you start typing, because a lot of what I am reading here is wrong. Stop filling each others minds with fallacies.

And in case you want to know, I have heavy background in metals & machining. I studied for 2 years in machining and metal production classes, with the intent of becoming a mechanical/materials engineer. I received my BS in a different field completely, but thats not important. I know what I'm talking about, but go read for yourselves if you aren't convinced.

First off, "galvanized" means that a piece of iron or steel is hot dipped into molten zinc. Because the zinc is not bonded or combined with the steel (its simply a coating) a lot of zinc can be given off. Galvanized steel is used for primarily for outdoor fixtures, fences, roofing, etc. You will rarely find household items that are galvanized due to the health issues of zinc.

Hookahs are not made with galvanized parts. Period.

Secondly, brass is an alloy made of Copper and Zinc. It DOES NOT need to have other materials in it, including, but not limited to, lead...although some silicon is almost always added for stregth purposes. Lead, tin, cobalt, and iron free brasses are available on the open market, and sometimes used when the situation presents itself. The Brass found in hookahs most likely contains all of the above mentioned materials, although the airbourne lead released is negligible, if at all. Any lead that is released is most likely settled in the vase water.

Bronze is another copper alloy created by adding tin instead of zinc. Aluminum, silicon, manganese, and other trace elements are often added to the mix to affect color, hardness, grain size, and machinability. To my knowledge, bronze is not used in hookahs as it is generally more expensive (tin is pricey, which is why tin cans are not made of tin).

While I'm at it, steel is an alloy of iron and carbon. Stainless steel is made by taking steel and adding any number of elements, including but not limited to chromium, manganese, molybdenum, suplher, phosphorus, nickel, and silicon. The grade of the SS defines the purity of the metals and the different mixtures. Stainless steel can still rust, as oxidation of the iron found in the SS can still occur. This is commonly observed in exhaust systems in cars. Generally speaking, our hookahs have low grade SS, although you shouldn't experience much rust or corrosion of the SS parts.

The downstem on the KMs is chrome plated steel, to the best of my knowledge. Other metals used in our hookahs includes SS of different grades, copper, brass, steel of different grades, and aluminum (usually chrome plated).

Very cool, thanks for the expert info. I only know about brass and other metals based entirely on what's used in plumbing systems.

'Rani

[vaypourus]

Very cool, thanks for the expert info. I only know about brass and other metals based entirely on what's used in plumbing systems.
'Rani

I am by no means an expert. Not by a long shot. I just know the basics.

So after all that being said would you prefer a brass or ss stem and why?

I would prefer a high grade SS stem. It's a lot stronger than brass, doesn't have the smell that brass does, and a high grade like 440A is very resistant to corrosion and retains a nice finish. Its more expensive than chrome plated steel though, which is probably why our KMs don't use it.

So if the chroming breaks down and in any way exposes the (I would assume non-stainless) steel underneath, your hookah could rust?

Is the brass in KMs and others generally molded? As in, poured into a mold then popped out? Or is it machined brass? It makes a difference because machined brass is generally leaded. The lead addition makes it easier to machine to whatever shape you need.

Stainless Steel is rust resistant...it can still rust. But yes, if the chrome plating came off it would rust. This is why there is rust at the bottom edge of the downstem...the uncoated steel is exposed.

I believe that the brass used is sand cast and then possibly machined or hand ground, although I can't tell for sure. I see some pitting in the brass which could be from a bad sand mold, but these could also be impurities or gas pockets. I do not see an signs of sprues or seams in the brass, but this simply means that those could have been removed with a lathe, mill, grinder, etc. Being that these are probably made in a non-modern workshop, I would assume that they are sand cast and then hand ground & polished as these would be the cheapest options.

Either way, the actual smoke exposure to the brass is minimal, as the majority of the trip is made through the steel downstem and into the hose spout, which almost looks like copper. If I had a thermoelectric tester I could give you a more definite answer, but I have no use for these things in the computer field.

[mamajosie]

What about a copper stem - would that be safe?

I found a hookah I am considering but the stem is copper with nickel over it I think? Would that be dangerous in some way?

here is a link to it:

http://www.hookah-life.com/StoreBox/egyptian/hel-000116.htm

[mattarios2]

Very cool, thanks for the expert info. I only know about brass and other metals based entirely on what's used in plumbing systems.
'Rani

I am by no means an expert. Not by a long shot. I just know the basics.

So after all that being said would you prefer a brass or ss stem and why?

I would prefer a high grade SS stem. It's a lot stronger than brass, doesn't have the smell that brass does, and a high grade like 440A is very resistant to corrosion and retains a nice finish. Its more expensive than chrome plated steel though, which is probably why our KMs don't use it.

So if the chroming breaks down and in any way exposes the (I would assume non-stainless) steel underneath, your hookah could rust?

Is the brass in KMs and others generally molded? As in, poured into a mold then popped out? Or is it machined brass? It makes a difference because machined brass is generally leaded. The lead addition makes it easier to machine to whatever shape you need.

Stainless Steel is rust resistant...it can still rust. But yes, if the chrome plating came off it would rust. This is why there is rust at the bottom edge of the downstem...the uncoated steel is exposed.

I believe that the brass used is sand cast and then possibly machined or hand ground, although I can't tell for sure. I see some pitting in the brass which could be from a bad sand mold, but these could also be impurities or gas pockets. I do not see an signs of sprues or seams in the brass, but this simply means that those could have been removed with a lathe, mill, grinder, etc. Being that these are probably made in a non-modern workshop, I would assume that they are sand cast and then hand ground & polished as these would be the cheapest options.

Either way, the actual smoke exposure to the brass is minimal, as the majority of the trip is made through the steel downstem and into the hose spout, which almost looks like copper. If I had a thermoelectric tester I could give you a more definite answer, but I have no use for these things in the computer field.

Ok, lemme rephrase, do you prefer brass that our hookahs use or ss that our hookahs use? You said you would prefer a high grade SS but hookah companies don't use high high grade ss because its too expensive. So do you prefer the brass used in our hookahs or ss used in our hookahs?

Thanks for all the good info man.

[vaypourus]

What about a copper stem - would that be safe?

I found a hookah I am considering but the stem is copper with nickel over it I think? Would that be dangerous in some way?

Nickel is not the best metal for people to be in contact with...some people have slight allergic reactions to it. Otherwise, you really have to eat or breathe a lot of nickel dust for it to cause health issues. If it is true nickel coating and you have a nickel allergy, you might get some bumps or irritation if you touch it. Chances are it won't affect you at all.

Heating copper is also somewhat harmful in high doses. You generally have to heat copper higher than a hookah will get it, so I wouldn't worry about it. I would think that a copper stem would be fine.

I am personally more concerned with chemicals used in the clay glazes than the metals in the hookahs.

Ok, lemme rephrase, do you prefer brass that our hookahs use or ss that our hookahs use? You said you would prefer a high grade SS but hookah companies don't use high high grade ss because its too expensive. So do you prefer the brass used in our hookahs or ss used in our hookahs?

Thanks for all the good info man.

I would still prefer the SS over the brass; SS is really a great material. My KM has a chromed steel downtube however, and I would prefer a brass or SS tube over the chrome plated steel.

[mattarios2]

What about a copper stem - would that be safe?

I found a hookah I am considering but the stem is copper with nickel over it I think? Would that be dangerous in some way?

Nickel is not the best metal for people to be in contact with...some people have slight allergic reactions to it. Otherwise, you really have to eat or breathe a lot of nickel dust for it to cause health issues. If it is true nickel coating and you have a nickel allergy, you might get some bumps or irritation if you touch it. Chances are it won't affect you at all.

Heating copper is also somewhat harmful in high doses. You generally have to heat copper higher than a hookah will get it, so I wouldn't worry about it. I would think that a copper stem would be fine.

I am personally more concerned with chemicals used in the clay glazes than the metals in the hookahs.

Ok, lemme rephrase, do you prefer brass that our hookahs use or ss that our hookahs use? You said you would prefer a high grade SS but hookah companies don't use high high grade ss because its too expensive. So do you prefer the brass used in our hookahs or ss used in our hookahs?

Thanks for all the good info man.

I would still prefer the SS over the brass; SS is really a great material. My KM has a chromed steel downtube however, and I would prefer a brass or SS tube over the chrome plated steel.

Hmmm, thats surprising to me, I was always under the impression brass was the best for hookahs, anyone else have any opinions?

[Scoop]

personally, ill take a brass one over a 108 stainless steel. if you take care of the brass one, it will last quite some time, plus i like how brass looks more.

[mattarios2]

personally, ill take a brass one over a 108 stainless steel. if you take care of the brass one, it will last quite some time, plus i like how brass looks more.

Couple questions, is it bad to see the green (patina) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patina come out of the brass ones? It comes from the brass and is a natural compound that fights off corrosion correct? I've only seen green stuff come out of my mya like 2 or 3 times. How do you know when the brass is no good anymore? Like what color would it be and what would be signs of it on its way out?

Thanks

[Scoop]

take a steel wool, attach it to a clothes hanger, scrub the inside of the stem as much as you can. take lemon juice then baking soda/water and clean out the stem.

it should delay the build up of patina. ive heard that the brass will start to flavor the stem if theres a lot of patina build up, but i dont know.

[mattarios2]

take a steel wool, attach it to a clothes hanger, scrub the inside of the stem as much as you can. take lemon juice then baking soda/water and clean out the stem.

it should delay the build up of patina. ive heard that the brass will start to flavor the stem if theres a lot of patina build up, but i dont know.

So patina is bad? If i look at the inside of the stem it seems to look like a light orange or yellow color? Thats normal right? I wash it either after every session then blow dry it 100% dry, or if im lazy i'll wash and scrub it in the am.

I've only seen patina like 2 or 3 times come out of the stem (the greenish stuff)