Obama Or Mccain?

[EvansLight]

Honestly i didnt pay a lick of attention to the election, and could care less who won. There has never been (at least in my lifetime) a good candidate for pres. Trying to find a good politician is like trying to find a shit filled diaper that smells good. Honestly im more worried about which party won the house and senate, and dem. won both, so hopefully things will be different this term. Didn't say good, but different. We can only hope its good.

[clibinarius]

As a moderate, I will say I'm happy Obama won.

Why?

I'm skeptical and cynical this man will bring change. I honestly think his supporters will be disillusioned, and things will stall and fail, and we will see scandal. That is all I've known in my life, after all. After I was born, S&L, Iran-Contra, and frankly, Clinton-Gengrich strife killed my opinions. And then Bush.

But the good news? A black man is elected president. Its hard to say all of America is completely racist and blacks will never progress in society. That is worth it for national pride alone. Don't buy any nationalist views? Fine. Let's go racial: This might improve productivity by relieving what conservatives deride as societal depression (continued by the welfare state). An improving attitude in the "urban" (quotes because this is a code word for "black") sections of America will improve our image worldwide, and will lead to less strife domestically. In the long run, this might reduce the need for welfare and assist the war on drugs far more than police spending and increase our national defense simply because you've now made a large segment of the population seem like they have more authority. And these effects might only effect a small amount, mind you, but it will alieviate certain depressions in our country with some. I for one have joked that I could not become president of this country. Today, I'm not sure that joke can still be made.

It might also signal to conservatives the beginning of a more conservative vote from the black community which has overwhelmingly voted leftist on many issues and democratic on many since the civil rights' acts, especially if this improves attitudes of those so often disenfranchised and apathetic.

Of course, this is all in the air and frankly, I'm too cynical to believe any change would be overnight or come from the government. The real effects of this on its culture will come to be seen in 40 years. I was unnerved at how open people who were far to the left of me were about saying "Negro" tonight simply because...they felt they could get away with it. Things could go backwards from here, too.

Also, the conservatives have the hope that the Democratic victory will be all the punishment they need to face for 12 years of congressional misrule, and 8 years of presidential misrule. This might make them ready to go in 2010, and I for one don't think all conservatism is bad. The GOP had a northern governor that kept the economy of Mass. decent while most of the surrounding states outside of their urban areas declined who could appeal to moderates. They did not choose him because he was a religious minority. They deserve to learn their lessons about their mistreatment of Romney, and they have time to do this in 2010.

Also, the nomination of Sarah Palin was the last straw at appealing to independents. Obama went for the center, and McCain went to the right. That lesson must be learned as well. If Obama went for the left, do you honestly think it'd have been such a landslide?

To conservatives who think this is the end of the world: You can't rule forever without becoming decadent.
To liberals who think this is the beginning of a big political change that's immediate: Look at Gengrich's promised change.

[AKammenzind]

All I gotta say is that last pos tmade my aballs itchy. Hrm....... sleep.

[oolatec]

Obama went for the center? LMAO

WTF news have you been reading? Wow.

Anyway... I am sure Obama will be welcomed as President and treated with the same degree of respect the Democrats gave to President Bush since 2000. I am so sure of it...

[Giant Ninja Robot]

how the fuck did us young people end up so jaded? I can barely stomach to read political shit on this forum anymore. Go listen to some Dashboard Confessional and cry about how horrible everything will always be instead of hoping that we actually DO see some progress in the direction the country needs. Really, you'll feel better, get some of that angst out.

[dafunk5446]

GNR hit it right on the head, you may not like Obama, but give the guy a chance before condemning him. I really do hope that this is the change this country needs. We need to drop the partisan bullshit and start seeing each other as americans, not a repub or demo. America needs change, in order for us to survive in a changing world. Do I think we will see the change we need in 1 term? No. 2 terms? No. People in this country are so stuck in there ways its disgusting. If you listened to Obama's speech last night I sure hope you had even a slight change of heart towards him, that was the best speech I have heard a presidential nominee make. He did not rub it in McCain's face, he said what needed to be said, in a very eloquent way. He is our best chance to see change in this country, like stated before, will it be this massive change that we really need, no. There is still alot of politics in this country and that wont change anytime soon. Both candidates were good nominees, McCain is a good man (Paliin was the problem) and we would have been a better country with either man in power. Don't be bitter and spiteful just cause McCain lost, support Obama so that america can be a better place for us and our children.

[liquidglass]

Either my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning, or you really believe they are McCain supporters impersonating Black Panther thugs. Given your post history... I'll stick with the latter.

They aren't supporters, they're employees.

Use your logic. Even the most racist douche in the US doesn't have such a low opinion of black people to think that they would actively sabotage the candidate they support.

Black thug thinking to himself: Man oh man do I love Obama. I'm going to stand outside the polling station with a big stick and scare all the white folks away! Yeah, that's a great plan!

Anyone to whom that makes sense has a clear and apparent detachment from reality.

Amen.

If Obama really had these retards officially standing outside of anywhere, don't you think the media would have had a field day with it? It's not like the supposed 'black panthers' are the CIA or Mafia, they won't just make you "disappear"

And to whoever mentioned the "brother" in Africa, lol seriously? I mean it's not like Obama has a family in the states to take care of or anything.

Apparently all the douchebags who believe Obama should take care of all family members regardless of their choices (dare i say bailout) supported the national 700B bailout.

Just because you believe people should be able to make all the stupid choices they want and then be picked up dusted off and given a new start doesn't mean that's how it should be. But I'm assuming you're just hoping because you probably made the poor choice of EVER voting (republican) straight ticket. And you want a 2nd chance.


- I don't believe straight ticket is good in any situation but coupled with the retards (some not all) running for rep office the last few elections then esp republican straight tickets.


And before you get up so fast you knock your hookah over relax, I didn't vote straight dem ticket and I haven't ever so far. Probably more than you can say for yourself.

[clibinarius]

Obama went for the center. Of course, when you're a true believer that he's a socialist (which, frankly, his record isn't encouraging about) and that McCain was a centrist and that Bill Clinton was an ultra-liberal...if you're honest a god a true believer that he ran on that stuff too...then there's no point in discussing it. You will think the Obama presidency is the end of the US as we know it, and there's no rational discussion to have. Even most conservative pundits agree Obama ran to the center. To put it most cynically, you're one of the people who actually believe that Obama will change things.

Oh, and before I forget, let's just look at some of the things suggested in this campaign:

Obama has intimate links with terrorism. Nevermind the fact John McCain's running mate's husband was a registered member of a party which itself has links with terrorism. I don't think you can mention Bill Ayers and saying Obama will surrender our country to terrorists without considering Todd Palin's political party wants closer ties with anti-American regimes that support terror and want to break away from the country. I guess Sarah knows something about "pallin' around with terrorists"-at least sympathizers because its quite possible that she did. For the sake of disclosure, I believe the AIP has terrorist sympathies and is by definition anti-American. The AIP I doubt will dispute that they're anti-American. I doubt that they'd dispute wanting links to regimes our federal government considers terrorist.

Obama is not a real American. Hey, guess what...neither am I then. I'm so sick and tired of people who aren't from the city with an inferiority complex saying that we can't defend ourselves in the cities. When terrorism strikes, we're the target, not you. But on top of that, what makes the country so great? I'm not trying to put down the country here, but to say that small towns are somehow better than big cities is garbage-live where you want to live. Its not my fault that New York ignores many small towns around the country and has immense resources and that you've heard of it and somehow have to prove you're better than people here. Similarly, people who say "Fuck middle America" should pull their heads from their asses because they are part of reason people from the country feel that the urbans look down on them.

Oh, and Obama will fill the cabinet with people like Reverend Wright. Forget the fact that McCain has his own anti-Catholic preacher who thinks of the church as the great whore, or Palin's church-which invites people who say Israel deserves terrorist attacks for not accepting christ to speak-or the fact her preacher got his start hunting witches. No, Wright's a real threat! Last I checked, Obama didn't say he was an evangelical either; of course, it'd be hypocritical of me to question his faith, but Palin made a big deal out of her faith. Witchhunting and justifying terrorism? I find that infinitely more scary.

So Palin has "executive experience." Suppose riots break out in Chicago, or any big city for that matter. Wasila doesn't even have the fire department under control of the mayor. Palin would NEVER be prepared to handle ANY urban emergency. Period. McCain is a bit moreso.

Oh, and Obama took money from Tony Rezko. Well, Palin took hundreds of thousands of dollars of clothes for PERSONAL use, more than reported in the media, defrauded donors into the estimates, then promised it to charity, then has proceeded to lose many articles of that clothing, as well as told staffers to put it in their own credit cards to receive reimbursement (which they did not get). Palin's also been found guilty of violating ethics laws, then said she did nothing illegal (LIE! She violated no CRIMINAL laws. There's a lot of law, and she could be theoretically fired from her job). Palin's also being investigated for cheating on her taxes. But for some reason you can't trust OBAMA. Palin is a modern Spiro Agnew, right down to the same effects that whip up the same conservative base. And that's not saying Biden's an angel, either.

I'm not saying Obama's trustworthy. Its just people who think this is the end of the world are screwed up beyond belief. There hasn't been a northern president since JFK (Bush was firmly entrenched in Texas when he was president, and Reagan was west coast). If we were so elitist, anyway, explain why GW Bush (mainly Texan), Bill Clinton (Arkansan), and Jimmy Carter have been elected? Maybe the elitists are the ones who refuse to vote for northerners, such as Joe Lieberman, Barack Obama, or Mitt Romney.

And I'm not a big Obama fan. I nearly didn't vote for him but changed my mind at the last minute (almost went third party). But then again, I'm not a real American-I'm just a fake American who's voting to destroy himself.

Maybe the fact that after years of limited federal funds going to NY/Chicago/LA despite a HUGE portion of the tax revenue coming from there and being redistributed to everywhere else in the country (mostly to corrupt politicians on the local level cause most people certainly aren't doing better in red states) also has kind of indicated that the cities again have to deserve some attention on the federal level. And if you're a red stater who complains that the Democrats won't help them...hey, now you have to live what we've lived with. Besides, last I checked, the GOP took such good care of you guys in Indiana when the storms hit! And Georgia really has all its gasoline it needs! My god, do you have your head screwed on correctly? Why do you think Indiana-a state that NEVER goes Democrat-switched? Could it be the federal government screwed them royally? And then RED Louisiana was hit hard by storms and ravaged. The GOP only concentrated on New Orleans-which is blue. So its not gonna make a shred of difference for the red staters anyway in the end.

Out here in NY, we're still waiting for that money Bush promised us. Maybe if the GOP took care of us in the north, we'd actually consider voting for them. No way-must do 50% + 1 vote.

Oh yeah, and DC has more people than Wyoming. But Wyoming has two senate seats and a congressional seat. How's that fair? Oh wait, they're not real Americans, so they don't deserve federal representation.

I could go on a longer rant, because it really makes me angry to hear so much hypocrisy. And then people like you support Michelle Bachman, too, who'd probably run me out of the country because I don't want to blindly follow her for protection. Edited November 6, 2008 by clibinarius

[newjacksm]

Ugh Obama is just gonna give money to the lazy asses who are already on welfare and trust me I know a couple of people who paid to be on welfare. If he does do this because he says hes gonna do that and this and the end product could be totally different. I really hope he can mustar up something where everyone will be happy. At least a little or at least take the pain away a little.

I say he should have McCain in his cabinet

[Bulldog_916]

Wow. Things really getting heated in here.

Here's my take, if you want it. The past 8 years have been fraught with scandal on both sides of the equation. Democrats getting caught doing things THEY shouldnt be doing, like sex scandals. Republicans getting caught in every other kind of scandal including sex scandals. If you listen to the TV news stations, including Fox News, which I dont even consider to be a news channel, they say that Obama's campaign was far more disciplined than McCain's. Never did they get off-message. They handled controversy coolly and made sure to avoid it happening again. You never heard Obama staffers talking badly about someone in their campaign. You didnt see any diva-ism in the campaign. It was the most well-run campaign since Ronald Reagan. Now just imagine for a second that that same discipline goes to the Whitehouse. There's no playing around. They stay the way they have been. Rahm Immanuel becomes Chief of Staff. Very serious guy. Does not play around. Chuck Hagel, military man and Republican, could be a member of Obama's military advisory. Dick Lugar, another centrist Republican could be in Obama's Cabinet. He will surround himself with the very best and brightest when it comes to the economy, guys like Warren Buffett, who know how to handle and earn money. Colin Powell will likely be secretary of education. My take is that Obama will likely keep David Petraeus as head of Centcom.

Obama's Top 5 Tasks To Do in Year 1

1. Stabilize the economy. Push middle class tax cuts through as soon as you can. Start putting regulations back in place for Wall Street. Stop the Fed from printing out money. It's an inflation catastrophe waiting to happen.

2. Start your energy policy. Put the money you have set for it into the alternative energy technology field right away. Use tax cuts for alt energy companies to get them to hire workers, scientists and engineers from the United States. Give an infusion of money into methanol production from products other than corn or other food crops.

3. Start the process of bringing the troops from Iraq home and redeploying units to Afghanistan.

4. Begin the process of reaching across the isle to Republicans in an honest effort to include them.

5. DO NOT start any social policy fights until you have the above done. If your approval rate is not high to begin with, you obviously wont win on gay rights, abortion, gun control, or any other ideological divide. Better yet, dont start any social policy at all. Revenge is ugly.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Have a single one of you who talks massive shit about welfare ever been hard off in your life? Or are you still living at home or on a campus with mom n pop footing the bill?

Try being on the other side of the fence then make your blanket statements about welfare recipients, go be homeless for a few weeks then come back from the wet cardboard box to your comfortable ergonomic computer chair and type me a different tune.

not every person in need is trying to take advantage of "the system".

It makes me sick that people get into such a selfish mode of thought that little green pieces of paper can't be given to those who are in need, yet we can blow BILLIONS of those same scraps of paper on unnecessary wars and fruitless govt. funded research. Edited November 6, 2008 by giant ninja robot

[AKammenzind]

Reading this thread is starting to feel like I whipped my shlong through a bunch of nettles, and now have to pluck out all the ouchy bits one by one... and all I have at hand is a dry sponge.

[Bulldog_916]

Reading this thread is starting to feel like I whipped my shlong through a bunch of nettles, and now have to pluck out all the ouchy bits one by one... and all I have at hand is a dry sponge.

And what have you learned? Perhaps you should keep your schlong safe in your pants, not whip it through a bunch of nettles? In other words, maybe not read this thread...

[AKammenzind]

Reading this thread is starting to feel like I whipped my shlong through a bunch of nettles, and now have to pluck out all the ouchy bits one by one... and all I have at hand is a dry sponge.

And what have you learned? Perhaps you should keep your schlong safe in your pants, not whip it through a bunch of nettles? In other words, maybe not read this thread...

Oh, I didn't say that I disliked it. That sort of kinky whatsit might just be my bag, baby.