Sweatshops?

[MAJIKVEGGIE]

I was just wondering who all has visited a hookah factory. Where are hookahs made? Please inform us about conditions & labor practices of hookah manufacturers in this thread.

[NickReppinThe909]

who cares who makes them or how they are made as long as they look good,function good and are durable

[SuburbanSmoker]

who cares who makes them or how they are made as long as they look good,function good and are durable

+1....couldnt have said it better myself.

[theotherone31415]

um...i don't want slaves making my hookahs...?

or children who make a dollar a day

yeah. i wouldn't buy a hookah if i knew the manufacturer used child labor.

[ilikemyusername]

um...i don't want slaves making my hookahs...?

or children who make a dollar a day

yeah. i wouldn't buy a hookah if i knew the manufacturer used child labor.

+1, me neither. i'm pretty upset with myself for owning a mya because of that one, i didn't know they were chinese until AFTER i had i shipped. i just hope egyptian manufacturers have a decent set of standards for thier working class.

[NickReppinThe909]

whats up with all this political correctness ? if they are only making $1 a day that can go pretty far in some 3rd world countries and they are probably just trying to help out their families so in theory it sounds bad but if its all they know and it puts food on their tables who cares ?

[SuburbanSmoker]

honestly in some places the child labor helps families from starving.

not the best kind of life, and not saying im pro child labor just that it is not a complete negative.

[guyt]

If that child making a dollar a day gets fired so that the company can say they don't use child labor, that child starves. Staying at home and playing Nintendo is not an option for some kids.

[kajon]

guyt is correct on this. I forgot the exact person, but someone had a clothing line at walmart, but she was under so much media pressure to not have her clothes made in sweatshops. She ended up closing the sweathshops, and all those kids were out of jobs. (I believe it was Martha Stewart, but i could be wrong). I am not saying sweat shops are good, but you cannot say stop all sweatshops either. Edited June 23, 2008 by kajon

[SafeSearchOff]

myas are chinese - but i cant imagine they're heavily sweatshop produced... i mean i dont know much about factories but all of mya's stems are cast metal, which, correct me if im wrong, shouldnt need too much labor. their glass is blown in the czech republic so no worries there. hoses i guess would require some labor...


also, theyre a chinese company - most sweatshop owners tend to be american companies capitalizing... Edited June 23, 2008 by SafeSearchOff

[Scoop]

i think you guys are missing the point of closing sweat shops. i dont buy chinese shit anyhow, and im not too worried, especially since its all crap...but if they close sweat shops and offer real wages for workers the families wont have to send their kids to work.

either way, you should stay away from chinese crap because its absolute garbage

[SuburbanSmoker]

paying real wages to real workers raises the costs of production, which in turn raises the cost of the product to the consumer. dont see any incentives for sweatshop managers/owners to ever want to do that. If governments made it completely illegal to use child labor mabey it would be different.
Edited June 23, 2008 by SuburbanSmoker

[Big Boss]

guyt is correct on this. I forgot the exact person, but someone had a clothing line at walmart, but she was under so much media pressure to not have her clothes made in sweatshops. She ended up closing the sweathshops, and all those kids were out of jobs. (I believe it was Martha Stewart, but i could be wrong). I am not saying sweat shops are good, but you cannot say stop all sweatshops either.

It was Kathie Lee Gifford. I don't really care where my hookah was made. Besides, I highly doubt my hookah was made in a sweat shop.

[Scoop]

paying real wages to real workers raises the costs of production, which in turn raises the cost of the product to the consumer. dont see any incentives for sweatshop managers/owners to ever want to do that. If governments made it completely illegal to use child labor mabey it would be different.

that was the point i was shooting for...you dont complain about sweat shops to factory managers/owners...you would complain to make the government make it illegal. either way, like i said, i could care less since its all crap quality

[guyt]

You can't make a two dollar an hour minimum wage in china and still expect to have the same lifestyle in USA, there is only so much money in the world, and to help the bottom 3/4 of the world out you have to take away from the top 1/4 of the world. Whether it's would be justified or not is a different argument, but people want the best of both worlds, and that just won't work.

[liquidglass]

I'm with Nick, SS, GuyT, and everyone else who's on that boat.

Child labor occurs because they and their families chose to do it, and they still might be bettering their family getting at least one child into school so they can up their family as they go.

Child labor isn't bad, abuse of the children working is bad.

And with how money is over seas. For instance in china I think the average annual income is around $2,000, it goes a lot further there than here obviously.

[theotherone31415]

oh goody, 7 year olds are putting food on the table? wtf. the only reason sweatshops exist is cause of the drive by greedy people who want cheap shit. capitalism makes sweatshops. i don't think saying "it's better than nothing" is a good answer. surely we all here believe all kids deserve to have a happy childhood and not spend it making...hookahs...in this case (something I actually doubt, for whatever reason). and yeah, buying those hookahs if you KNOW they're made by children IS saying, "no, they don't deserve better yet." fuck it though. I just plain don't think any hookahs are made by kids

[wongxiao]

oh goody, 7 year olds are putting food on the table? wtf. the only reason sweatshops exist is cause of the drive by greedy people who want cheap shit. capitalism makes sweatshops. i don't think saying "it's better than nothing" is a good answer. surely we all here believe all kids deserve to have a happy childhood and not spend it making...hookahs...in this case (something I actually doubt, for whatever reason). and yeah, buying those hookahs if you KNOW they're made by children IS saying, "no, they don't deserve better yet." fuck it though. I just plain don't think any hookahs are made by kids

It's a sticky topic, and the "better than nothing" argument does hold water, IMHO.

I mean, what are the options?

We all boycott? Then the sweatshop goes out of business, and those kids' conditions (and that of their families) go from bad to worse.

Now let's say the sweatshop owners pay the workers a typical American's wage. Then all of a sudden there's a small sector of that country's population with INSANE purchasing power, and the entire economy gets all messed up. Not to mention your hookah gets much more pricey, and the manufacturer may as well just...

...hire first-world labor, which is fine. But then there are two issues: 1) Are you willing to pay that much for your hookah? Even if you are, do you believe that there are enough others who will to keep said manufacturer afloat, given that its competition will be massively undercutting it? and 2) Here's where that "better than noting" argument comes into play again....



Seems to me its just a matter of taking moral refuge either in an "isolationist" justification (no sweatshops) or a "better than nothing" (sweatshops) justification.... There is no easy solution.


Of course, this is all assuming the hookahs are made in sweatshops. And I kind of doubt it. I mean... if it's not machine-blown glass or machine-fabricated acrylic, it has to be hand-blown glass or some other type of high-skilled, artisan work... I just don't see little kids doing that in sweatshops. I guess the parts for the stem could be welded in a sweatshop, but seriously, machine-automated welding would probably incur lower long-run costs for high volume production, despite much higher sunk/fixed costs....



P.S., just because something came from China does not mean it was made in a sweatshop... " Also, capitalism is (or at least, can be) a good thing. No better or worse IMHO than socialism... or any other socioeconomic system that is fair and actually works (ie, not communism). Socialism and capitalism are the only two I can think of at the moment, however.

[wongxiao]

--double post, sorry-- Edited June 24, 2008 by wongxiao

[NickReppinThe909]

oh goody, 7 year olds are putting food on the table? wtf. the only reason sweatshops exist is cause of the drive by greedy people who want cheap shit. capitalism makes sweatshops. i don't think saying "it's better than nothing" is a good answer. surely we all here believe all kids deserve to have a happy childhood and not spend it making...hookahs...in this case (something I actually doubt, for whatever reason). and yeah, buying those hookahs if you KNOW they're made by children IS saying, "no, they don't deserve better yet." fuck it though. I just plain don't think any hookahs are made by kids

It's a sticky topic, and the "better than nothing" argument does hold water, IMHO.

I mean, what are the options?

We all boycott? Then the sweatshop goes out of business, and those kids' conditions (and that of their families) go from bad to worse.

Now let's say the sweatshop owners pay the workers a typical American's wage. Then all of a sudden there's a small sector of that country's population with INSANE purchasing power, and the entire economy gets all messed up. Not to mention your hookah gets much more pricey, and the manufacturer may as well just...

...hire first-world labor, which is fine. But then there are two issues: 1) Are you willing to pay that much for your hookah? Even if you are, do you believe that there are enough others who will to keep said manufacturer afloat, given that its competition will be massively undercutting it? and 2) Here's where that "better than noting" argument comes into play again....



Seems to me its just a matter of taking moral refuge either in an "isolationist" justification (no sweatshops) or a "better than nothing" (sweatshops) justification.... There is no easy solution.


Of course, this is all assuming the hookahs are made in sweatshops. And I kind of doubt it. I mean... if it's not machine-blown glass or machine-fabricated acrylic, it has to be hand-blown glass or some other type of high-skilled, artisan work... I just don't see little kids doing that in sweatshops. I guess the parts for the stem could be welded in a sweatshop, but seriously, machine-automated welding would probably incur lower long-run costs for high volume production, despite much higher sunk/fixed costs....



P.S., just because something came from China does not mean it was made in a sweatshop... " Also, capitalism is (or at least, can be) a good thing. No better or worse IMHO than socialism... or any other socioeconomic system that is fair and actually works (ie, not communism). Socialism and capitalism are the only two I can think of at the moment, however.

gee weren't nazi's german socialists ?

[wongxiao]

gee weren't nazi's german socialists ?

lol, I'd say they were German Nazis. Or fascists....


By "socialism" I mean what pops into my mind when I think of European economies compared to the American economy--it's more regulated, and has higher taxes but more government-provided services.

[NickReppinThe909]

gee weren't nazi's german socialists ?

lol, I'd say they were German Nazis. Or fascists....


By "socialism" I mean what pops into my mind when I think of European economies compared to the American economy--it's more regulated, and has higher taxes but more government-provided services.

they were national socialists

and europe is wayyy ahead of the u.s. in all ways

[Johnny_D]

they were national socialists

and europe is wayyy ahead of the u.s. in all ways

I wouldn't bet the farm on that.

There was a very interesting panorama [BBC Weekly Topical investigation programme] that was looking into Primark's clothing. Primark pride themselves of an Ethical purchasing and labour system, yet still provide high quality clothes at very cheap prices.

However the problem here was not directly with Primark. Primark's suppliers were not supposed to outsource manufacturing without there knowledge. However this happened all the time and the Beeb found kids sowing on 1000's of sequins and the like for 19p (38cents) a day in SE India.

It's a practice that is beyond reprehensible and the argument of 11 year old kids putting food on the table is weak at best from what I can understand. And often the wages paid don't put much food on that table. Less than required to feed said child.

And it's not just about food either. It's about a child's need's beyond nutrition. Health, education, Playing, social interaction? And how about working conditions? Are some of your REALLY trying to suggest these conditions are justifiable under any circumstances?

JD

[Voski]

I always imagined that some intoxicated middle eastern guy was hammering a piece of metal when I think of how my hookahs were made.