Using A Larger Than Standard "large-size" Glass Water Bowl

[TizaNabi]

I've had this crazy notion for awhile of finding a larger than the biggest size glass water bowl and getting a big enough rubber grommet or cutting one.Those would probably not be the problem. My question is to they who know physics : Okay, i have a few minis, juniors and 3 very large , each has a different size bowl. I've read alot about length of hookah hose and lowered pressure, etc. Is there a certain point of bowl size with the added ammount of water that makes smoking an uphill battle? My first hookah years back upon cleaning the first time, I broke the glass.I looked and found a glass fruit juice bottle and added a larger grommet, decorated the outside a bit and forgot for awhile to buy a new bowl, it was that good. Scientific opinions about obtaining a "MOAB"?
(Mother of all Bowls). Could be called "Jabar" Arabic for giant strength.

[wongxiao]

It seems to me that the determining factor is going to be the depth of the downstem. The deeper the downstem is, is more water must be pushed out of it before smoke can come through, and therefore a greater pressure disparity must exist between the air in the base and the air in the stem (which for all intents and purposes, is atmospheric pressure).

Considering the ideal gas law, PV=nRT, it seems to me that V, (volume), R (the gas constant), and T (temperature) may be considered constant, while P (pressure) and n (quantity of gas) change. When you draw through the hose, you decrease n, which is directly related to P. Thus we have a change ∆n (n after drawing minus n before drawing) which is proportional to ∆P. ∆P may also be thought of as the required difference in pressure to push the water out of the downstem, allowing smoke to bubble through. Because ∆n is the same regardless of how big or small n is, the required ∆P should also be achievable regardless of n. Based on this, I do not think that the size of your base should affect the draw difficulty...

But I could be wrong... looking a the concept behind the hydraulic press, I'm led to believe that the surface area of the air region would have an effect....I'm much too lazy to think this out any further... either way, I think that if nothing else, additional draw difficulty could be rectified by adjusting the downstem depth, inner diameter, or the hose's inner diameter.


In any case, good luck! I think Moab would definitely be an interesting thing to see come to fruition...

[nmacholl]

The length of the stem that is submerged matters but it would have to increase dramatically for you to notice a difference. Remember that you only have to supply enough pressure differential to suck smoke through the stem - the buoyancy does all the work after that. So once you supply that initial differential, the volume your lungs expand = the volume of the pull, if your base is setup right you'll get a totally equal amount of smoke for the volume you inhale, unless you completely fill your vase.

[emagdnim@yahoo.com]

keep in mind you could always use a thinner downstem and thus have to displace less water but still have maximum filtration distance from downstem to water surface.

I want to do something similar but mostly just have the huge vase for smoke storage, keep some ice in contact with the vase, all that smoke would get so smooth and cool....

[VDDZ]

I have never seen any positive effect on a larger hookah "Vase" (bowls are what holds the tobacco, and a larger one of those DOES change things). The depth influences the draw, (think Pascal's Principle) But as soon as you break surface tension with a breath, I would imagine you would need a new or more detailed principle.

Experience has told me that a larger vase is only good for stability (if the vase stable to begin with). It really is a matter of volume ratios between the first area (bowl and downstem) and the second area (vase and hose). I have played with that some, but that's a different matter.

[jschoenith]

the difference of pressure between the vase and the bowl will effect the pull of the overall system and so will the bowl size and id

[spikeadams]

the difference of pressure between the vase and the bowl will effect the pull of the overall system and so will the bowl size and id

what about putting on some type of floater/one way valve? Like at the end of the downstem, a small floating plastic ball or something, simular to the valve on top, but it floats up and blocks the water from going back up the down stem. That way you could have a longer downstem and more filtration right?

[K1024]

the difference of pressure between the vase and the bowl will effect the pull of the overall system and so will the bowl size and id

what about putting on some type of floater/one way valve? Like at the end of the downstem, a small floating plastic ball or something, simular to the valve on top, but it floats up and blocks the water from going back up the down stem. That way you could have a longer downstem and more filtration right?

kinda but not really, see the water still wants to be higher so your going to have to fight against the same amount of pressure to unstick the bearing...

[Long Horn Hookah]

Theoretically, the bigger the base, the more air/smoke mixture inside. Even with the downstem at the same depth, you will be forced into harder to receive hits. As you draw, you create a vacuum for the air in the base and the hose. The downstem depth and diameter, altitude, type of bowl, holes punched in the foil, hose length and diameter, liquid in base, ect ect... Factor together to calculate the PSI (lets say 10 for the sake of my explanation) required to break the surface tension and allow air to pass. On a small base, the air that must be removed to reach -10PSI will be less than that of a base with a larger storage area for the air. If you were to turn a fish tank into a base, even with everything airtight, you would be required to pull a lung full, kink the hose, then pull another full lung before the internal vacuum would be enough for a flow of air/smoke to begin. I'm all for experimentation, but it's through hundreds of years of preference and research that makes almost every hookah base and downstem relatively the same.

Tell me what you think, once finals week is over I might make example pictures and put this up on the site.

- Taylor

[liquidglass]

1) the length of the down stem doesn't matter, just the length that you submerge

2) The vaccum "might" be hard to create to begin with but to be honest It shouldn't be a big deal after a few good puffs. The base should be full of smoke (if you're doing everything else right) And it'll be smooth sailing

--just like ANY other hookah/base. You have to take a few pulls first.


There was actually a few people on here who have made hookahs that were huge. One used a 5 gallon tub for a base and the other used another object that was EVEN LARGER I want to say it held 10 gallons of water. And they didn't report any difficulties.

[Long Horn Hookah]

1) the length of the down stem doesn't matter, just the length that you submerge

2) The vaccum "might" be hard to create to begin with but to be honest It shouldn't be a big deal after a few good puffs. The base should be full of smoke (if you're doing everything else right) And it'll be smooth sailing

--just like ANY other hookah/base. You have to take a few pulls first.


There was actually a few people on here who have made hookahs that were huge. One used a 5 gallon tub for a base and the other used another object that was EVEN LARGER I want to say it held 10 gallons of water. And they didn't report any difficulties.

1 opps, your right, I should have said submerged downstem.

2 You will lose all the vacuum you created inside the base when you remove the hose from your mouth. Unless that is, you created some kind of auto seal system on each hose port.

While yes it could be done, its not going to be easy. The auto seal system would need to be of a slightly higher quality that the 2 hose plastic mini mya HS sent me because I spent over 100$

[K1024]

im not sure that you understand how smoke works...you dont need it to be in a vacuum....no hookahs are in vacums or ever have been, theres no added benefit. as it turns out warm smoke floats naturally

[Long Horn Hookah]

im not sure that you understand how smoke works...you dont need it to be in a vacuum....no hookahs are in vacums or ever have been, theres no added benefit. as it turns out warm smoke floats naturally

Excuse me, but there is no truth to your statement. A hookah is in a vacuum from the moment you attempt to inhale. Now understand I'm not talking about the appliance you clean your floors with. I'm referring to a property of physics in-which there is a negative air pressure. Hooka's REQUIRE a vacuum to work.

[liquidglass]

1) the length of the down stem doesn't matter, just the length that you submerge

2) The vaccum "might" be hard to create to begin with but to be honest It shouldn't be a big deal after a few good puffs. The base should be full of smoke (if you're doing everything else right) And it'll be smooth sailing

--just like ANY other hookah/base. You have to take a few pulls first.


There was actually a few people on here who have made hookahs that were huge. One used a 5 gallon tub for a base and the other used another object that was EVEN LARGER I want to say it held 10 gallons of water. And they didn't report any difficulties.

1 opps, your right, I should have said submerged downstem.

2 You will lose all the vacuum you created inside the base when you remove the hose from your mouth. Unless that is, you created some kind of auto seal system on each hose port.

While yes it could be done, its not going to be easy. The auto seal system would need to be of a slightly higher quality that the 2 hose plastic mini mya HS sent me because I spent over 100$

Lol actually you were spot on with the down stem description, it was someone above you who was wrong in their post about the downstem

Well I understand what you mean about the idea of a vacuum. Especially with such a larger hookah. But honestly I've never noticed a loss of vacuum(unless it's more than one hose, OR if you wait a while between puffs)

AS far as the auto seal system, as long as the hose port is angled up, I've thought about just using a thin wire screen and an object to seal the hole. put the object in the port, then attach the screen one way or the other slightly above the object.

With a one hose hookah you don't need to worry about this, but with a large homemade hookah it could be a good idea to look into if you're having problems.

[Long Horn Hookah]

Lol actually you were spot on with the down stem description, it was someone above you who was wrong in their post about the downstem

Well I understand what you mean about the idea of a vacuum. Especially with such a larger hookah. But honestly I've never noticed a loss of vacuum(unless it's more than one hose, OR if you wait a while between puffs)

AS far as the auto seal system, as long as the hose port is angled up, I've thought about just using a thin wire screen and an object to seal the hole. put the object in the port, then attach the screen one way or the other slightly above the object.

With a one hose hookah you don't need to worry about this, but with a large homemade hookah it could be a good idea to look into if you're having problems.

Oh ok my bad.

Well without some kind of sealing system the vacuum would equalize as soon as you take it out of your mouth. So every new hit you would have to recreate the vacuum. Thats why I think an auto seal system would be very important. The best way I can think to do it would be a vertical hose port. A small diameter hose inside a bigger one and the ball-bearing just gets lifter up when you inhale.

[K1024]

im not sure that you understand how smoke works...you dont need it to be in a vacuum....no hookahs are in vacums or ever have been, theres no added benefit. as it turns out warm smoke floats naturally

Excuse me, but there is no truth to your statement. A hookah is in a vacuum from the moment you attempt to inhale. Now understand I'm not talking about the appliance you clean your floors with. I'm referring to a property of physics in-which there is a negative air pressure. Hooka's REQUIRE a vacuum to work.

yup because a hookah isnt open on both sides...oh wait it is.

just because you creat negative air pressure doesnt mean that it exists as a vacuum...maybe when your taking a hit yes its then acting like one, but once your done sucking it goes back to standard pressurization (yes even if you were to create a perfect auto seal at the hose port).

you cant have a vacuum with an open end.

[Long Horn Hookah]

Theoretically, the bigger the base, the more air/smoke mixture inside. Even with the downstem at the same depth, you will be forced into harder to receive hits. As you draw, you create a vacuum for the air in the base and the hose. The downstem depth and diameter, altitude, type of bowl, holes punched in the foil, hose length and diameter, liquid in base, ect ect... Factor together to calculate the PSI (lets say 10 for the sake of my explanation) required to break the surface tension and allow air to pass. On a small base, the air that must be removed to reach -10PSI will be less than that of a base with a larger storage area for the air. If you were to turn a fish tank into a base, even with everything airtight, you would be required to pull a lung full, kink the hose, then pull another full lung before the internal vacuum would be enough for a flow of air/smoke to begin. I'm all for experimentation, but it's through hundreds of years of preference and research that makes almost every hookah base and downstem relatively the same.

Tell me what you think, once finals week is over I might make example pictures and put this up on the site.

- Taylor

im not sure that you understand how smoke works...you dont need it to be in a vacuum....no hookahs are in vacums or ever have been, theres no added benefit. as it turns out warm smoke floats naturally

Excuse me, but there is no truth to your statement. A hookah is in a vacuum from the moment you attempt to inhale. Now understand I'm not talking about the appliance you clean your floors with. I'm referring to a property of physics in-which there is a negative air pressure. Hooka's REQUIRE a vacuum to work.

yup because a hookah isnt open on both sides...oh wait it is.

just because you creat negative air pressure doesnt mean that it exists as a vacuum...maybe when your taking a hit yes its then acting like one, but once your done sucking it goes back to standard pressurization (yes even if you were to create a perfect auto seal at the hose port).

you cant have a vacuum with an open end.

When you create negative air pressure, Yes that means there is a vacuum.
Yes a perfect auto seal would maintain the vacuum, thats why I consider it a necessity for something like an oversized hookah.

Please understand when I refer to vacuum I mean the negative air pressure in the base, tube, and in your mouth created from the suction of trying to hit the hookah. While very minimum, a vacuum dose exist. My hypothesis is that the negative pressure required to make the air/smoke flow will be relitively equal on small and large hookahs, but to achieve this presure a larger volume of air must be removed from the larger hookah.

[K1024]

Theoretically, the bigger the base, the more air/smoke mixture inside. Even with the downstem at the same depth, you will be forced into harder to receive hits. As you draw, you create a vacuum for the air in the base and the hose. The downstem depth and diameter, altitude, type of bowl, holes punched in the foil, hose length and diameter, liquid in base, ect ect... Factor together to calculate the PSI (lets say 10 for the sake of my explanation) required to break the surface tension and allow air to pass. On a small base, the air that must be removed to reach -10PSI will be less than that of a base with a larger storage area for the air. If you were to turn a fish tank into a base, even with everything airtight, you would be required to pull a lung full, kink the hose, then pull another full lung before the internal vacuum would be enough for a flow of air/smoke to begin. I'm all for experimentation, but it's through hundreds of years of preference and research that makes almost every hookah base and downstem relatively the same.

Tell me what you think, once finals week is over I might make example pictures and put this up on the site.

- Taylor

im not sure that you understand how smoke works...you dont need it to be in a vacuum....no hookahs are in vacums or ever have been, theres no added benefit. as it turns out warm smoke floats naturally

Excuse me, but there is no truth to your statement. A hookah is in a vacuum from the moment you attempt to inhale. Now understand I'm not talking about the appliance you clean your floors with. I'm referring to a property of physics in-which there is a negative air pressure. Hooka's REQUIRE a vacuum to work.

yup because a hookah isnt open on both sides...oh wait it is.

just because you creat negative air pressure doesnt mean that it exists as a vacuum...maybe when your taking a hit yes its then acting like one, but once your done sucking it goes back to standard pressurization (yes even if you were to create a perfect auto seal at the hose port).

you cant have a vacuum with an open end.

When you create negative air pressure, Yes that means there is a vacuum.
Yes a perfect auto seal would maintain the vacuum, thats why I consider it a necessity for something like an oversized hookah.

Please understand when I refer to vacuum I mean the negative air pressure in the base, tube, and in your mouth created from the suction of trying to hit the hookah. While very minimum, a vacuum dose exist. My hypothesis is that the negative pressure required to make the air/smoke flow will be relitively equal on small and large hookahs, but to achieve this presure a larger volume of air must be removed from the larger hookah.

and the answer to this is that there is no effect on base size. or let me say that it would effect it very minimally.

what does matter: inner diameter of downstem; amount of downstem submerged in water; and diffuser (potentially decreasing how hard you have to pull)

also your "autoseal" mechanism wouldnt help any because (suprise) the hookah is open on the other end, where the bowl is. the water level is going to go to its equilibrium state...and i dont see the point of keeping the smoke locked in, its not going anywhere.

so explain to me how making the hookah with a better autoseal mechanism is going to help with removing a "larger volume of air" from the hookah. and for that matter what effect it will have on smoking...because it wont. once you start smoking there is no fresh air being introduced just smoke, once you get rid of all the "air" then theres only smoke left to breathe in, so why all the fuss?

[Long Horn Hookah]

lets just say to have the air/smoke flow from the open bowl opening requires -10psi
on a base with 1 gallon of air you have to inhale half your lungs to reach -10
on a base with 5 gallons of air, you need to inhale 2.5 lungs worth of air to reach -10psi

[K1024]

and what im saying is that that amount is so miniscule that it doesnt matter.

and if it did matter an autoseal system wouldnt help.

and if it did work, you still have to apply the pressure to make every bubble there after.

nevermind the fact that, unless the seal was mechanical, you would have to fight against the seal for the pressure it was holding.

[Long Horn Hookah]

and what im saying is that that amount is so miniscule that it doesnt matter.

and if it did matter an autoseal system wouldnt help.

and if it did work, you still have to apply the pressure to make every bubble there after.

nevermind the fact that, unless the seal was mechanical, you would have to fight against the seal for the pressure it was holding.

I think once you get up to the size of say a 5 gallon water jug, the air needing to be removed every single hit will be insane.

An auto-seal system would be beneficial BECAUSE it would maintain the pressure. I'm not saying the pressure will be very much, just that more and more air will need to be removed inorder to achieve that pressure as the base gets bigger. Lastly, all seals that I can think of are mechanical in some way, but even if it wasn't you sill have to fight against the pressure being held in.

[K1024]

and what im saying is that that amount is so miniscule that it doesnt matter.

and if it did matter an autoseal system wouldnt help.

and if it did work, you still have to apply the pressure to make every bubble there after.

nevermind the fact that, unless the seal was mechanical, you would have to fight against the seal for the pressure it was holding.

I think once you get up to the size of say a 5 gallon water jug, the air needing to be removed every single hit will be insane.

An auto-seal system would be beneficial BECAUSE it would maintain the pressure. I'm not saying the pressure will be very much, just that more and more air will need to be removed inorder to achieve that pressure as the base gets bigger. Lastly, all seals that I can think of are mechanical in some way, but even if it wasn't you sill have to fight against the pressure being held in.

and what im saying is that a seal wouldnt help, because each time it bubbles it returns to original pressure.

and by mechanical i meant it would move for you, so something motorized...but even then this is a stupid concept.

not only would you have to block it at the hose port to mantain pressure, but also on the downstem...



your saying that you want to maintain this pressure so that the initial pull would be easier? but you will still get smoke with that initial pull so whats the point? your going to get the same amount of smoke either way.

[Long Horn Hookah]

You are not required to block the down stem because it will only bubble at -10 psi, THATS why I think it needs some kind of sealing system so that you can maintain -10 psi and it will always bubble when you hit it; as if it was a regular size hookah. And this way you get more smoke because all the air you remove leads to bubbles down the stem, unlike without the sealing system where some of your intake would go towards creating the -10psi.

[K1024]

You are not required to block the down stem because it will only bubble at -10 psi, THATS why I think it needs some kind of sealing system so that you can maintain -10 psi and it will always bubble when you hit it; as if it was a regular size hookah. And this way you get more smoke because all the air you remove leads to bubbles down the stem, unlike without the sealing system where some of your intake would go towards creating the -10psi.

every time it bubbles it will return to regular pressure, thus your magic pressure holding system wont work after the first bubble.

and if it is so hard to pull that you would want to maintain said pressure, then it is clearly to large to be smoking.



afterthought: im done without this, if you want to waste time and money trying to build such a feature only to find out that this will not work then feel free to.

[Long Horn Hookah]

Bubbling will only return it to the -10psi minimum required for the air to flow, then without an autoseal, when you remove the hose from your mouth then it returns to 0. I think thats the only thing I have yet to explain about my theory. Im glad your done with this, and I apologize for being a stubborn person to continue it this far..