Trouble Mantianing Strong Flavour - Advice Sought.

[psantucc]

I've been smoking Hookah for a bit more than 2 years now, but I'm nearly ready to give it up. Why? Because I only rarely get the strong flavours that attracted me to the practice in the first place. I hope someone here might be able to tell me what to do.

A bit of background. I first tried hookah at Paymon's in Las Vegas. Three bowls in 2 nights - one strawberry, one cola, and one pipe tobacco - and all three were lovely perfect smooth taste explosions.

When I returned home, I knew I wanted to experience the same thing. I set about assembling a rig similar to Paymon's:

- Comet 26" rotating hookah ( I know, Paymon's doesn't rotate, but I didn't want to deal with multiple hoses and did want to pass the hose )
- Hookah-Shisha Deluxe combo bowl (clay bowl with latching windscreen)
- Screen
- Nammor hose

My brother and I went through the usual early difficulties but with help from Hookah-Shisha fairly quickly reached the point at which we find ourselves now: We don't burn the shisha, we get good cloud density, no harsh smoke - but out of 50 or so bowls, we've had only 4 or 5 that were as strongly flavored as those first few at Paymon's. The problem seems to cut across shisha and coal brands - we've tried these coals:

Golden
3 Kings
Fumari Japanese Style (current favorite)
Romman Lemonwood
CocoNara

And these shishas:

Starbuzz
Romman
Al-Waha
Al-Amir
Al-Fakher
Fumari
Nakhla
Havana

The ones that came through for us were Romman Strawberry, Romman Mint, Fumari Honey, and Al-Fakher Coconut (which was unpleasant, but strong). Even these brands, however, were strong only once or twice - we seem to be just as likely to get weak flavour from them. In fact, my most recent Romman purchase was nearly flavorless, both in the 250g and the 50g pack we tried for fear that the 250g was too old when we got it.

So - is there anything I can do? Anybody work in a lounge and know how they make it work every time?

Thanks.

[Victim026]

There's so many things that it could be it's not even funny, although my first question to you would be... How clean are you keeping your hookah? are you switching the water out and rinsing the hookah in between bowls and scrubbing it down after every few bowls?

[AKammenzind]

Man if you got good flavor from Romman and none of the others you listed you're having something backwards. Romman is the only shisha I've never had a good experience with.
Make sure your hookah is clean, if you want to give it a damn nice clean then hit it with soap/hot water and a brush (I'm assuming you kept yours?), then run some lemon juice through it, give it another quick brushing, and rinse, rinse, rinse. Same goes for the base. Also might wanna try giving your hose a really good lemon-juice cleaning, then several rinses and a drip-dry.

That aside... I'd recommend these shishas, as they've been the strongest tasting for me:
Nakhla Sweet Melon, Rose, Cappuccino or Peach (Really, any Nakhla is good, but those are some of the slightly stronger tasting ones)
Al-Waha After 9 or Orange Creme
Tangiers K-Peach
Golden AF Bahraini Apple

Failing all that it might just be that your hookah needs replaced, after so many smokes they sometimes just don't taste quite the same as they did new. Edited August 12, 2008 by AKammenzind

[NickReppinThe909]

just try usiong less heat and using room temp water in the base and clean out the hookah often and chang the water after every flavor

[psantucc]

There's so many things that it could be it's not even funny, although my first question to you would be... How clean are you keeping your hookah? are you switching the water out and rinsing the hookah in between bowls and scrubbing it down after every few bowls?

Switching water every time, yes, as I usually only have the one bowl per session - but I haven't been practicing good hookah hygiene apart from that. I have only rarely rinsed or completely cleaned the hookah.

I wouldn't have guessed that would be linked to weak flavor, but if you correlate the times I've cleaned well and the good flavor smokes, the numbers are similar. I'll give it a go, thanks.

[psantucc]

Man if you got good flavor from Romman and none of the others you listed you're having something backwards. Romman is the only shisha I've never had a good experience with.

One of my greatest frustrations with this hobby is the high degree of subjectivity. One can find reviews on this forum of nearly every combination of flavor and maker declaring it both the best and worst, both full smoking and light smoking, both strong buzz and weak buzz. This makes it very difficult to improve one's practices in any sort of measured way.

Make sure your hookah is clean, if you want to give it a damn nice clean then hit it with soap/hot water and a brush (I'm assuming you kept yours?), then run some lemon juice through it, give it another quick brushing, and rinse, rinse, rinse. Same goes for the base. Also might wanna try giving your hose a really good lemon-juice cleaning, then several rinses and a drip-dry.

I do have all the cleaning accoutrement and will clean as you suggest before my next bowl.

That aside... I'd recommend these shishas, as they've been the strongest tasting for me:
Nakhla Sweet Melon, Rose, Cappuccino or Peach (Really, any Nakhla is good, but those are some of the slightly stronger tasting ones)
Al-Waha After 9 or Orange Creme
Tangiers K-Peach
Golden AF Bahraini Apple

Of this list I have had only After 9, which I found reasonably strong but repellent (the fake chocolate notes are very unpleasant to me) and Tangiers Peach, which I found very harsh and thought the dominant flavour was of virginia tobacco. Once again, we have that irritating inconsistency.

Thanks very much for your suggestions.

[Chiefin]

In fact, my most recent Romman purchase was nearly flavorless

Well, at least you've got the Romman smoking correctly.

Like Victim said...it could be a million different things. Clean every inch of the thing though. Use a brush and go to town. Also clean your namoor hose too. Put mouthwash in it and cover each end with your thumbs and swish it back and forth for two minutes and run water through it until the mint taste is gone completely. (of course this is contingent on your namoor being washable).

Then do yourself a favor and go buy some fantasia triple apple. I know it's expensive, but if it re-invents your interest in hookah, then it's worth every penny. It's juicy as hell, so maybe even try dabbling in creating a phake phunnel while you're at it.

A lot of head shops [in my experience] will sell shisha that is older and drier than what you will find online. So check your shisha sources as well as a possible source for this poor experience. Edited August 12, 2008 by Chiefin

[Victim026]

There's so many things that it could be it's not even funny, although my first question to you would be... How clean are you keeping your hookah? are you switching the water out and rinsing the hookah in between bowls and scrubbing it down after every few bowls?

Switching water every time, yes, as I usually only have the one bowl per session - but I haven't been practicing good hookah hygiene apart from that. I have only rarely rinsed or completely cleaned the hookah.

I wouldn't have guessed that would be linked to weak flavor, but if you correlate the times I've cleaned well and the good flavor smokes, the numbers are similar. I'll give it a go, thanks.

Well if you have less then stellar hookah upkeep as you say then that is most likely singlehandedly destroying your flavor search. Everytime you smoke particles and gunk stick to the insides of your hookah from that paticular flavor, so over time the flavors overlap and can easily overpower a lighter flavor your trying to smoke. Ideally I would say to rinse your hookah after every session and to dry it off the best you can, never let the water sit in it overnite after a session if it's at all possible. Next would be to make sure every 5 sessions or so you do a full cleaning on the hookah rather then just a quick rinse, make sure you use a brush for this and there are several things you can use to help clean the gunk off. Some of the favorites around here are lemon juice, beer, vodka, and baking soda but you can also buy commercial cleaners such as the ones sold on Hookah-Shisha. My personal favorite is an inital brush with cool water, then a brush with a shot of cheap vodka, and then finally a hot water and lemon juice brushing with a final rinse. There's plenty of good threads on here though with various ways to get your hookah squeeky clean just use the search button.

[psantucc]

This will be my last reply until after I've tried a thorough cleaning, as I will then have new data to contribute. I believe the thread has gotten off track and think I have to restate my objective.

I'm trying to determine what it is that changes between sessions that are great and ones that are not. I've eliminated most of the variables I've known about - in addition to the consistent hardware listed in the first post, I have also controlled these:

I source all the shisha from reputable mail-order - Hookah-Shisha and Fumari.

I always use room temperature water.

I store the shisha in airtight containers, either food-grade gasketed or manufacturer's containers when such is airtight, at room temperature, usually in the same room in which I smoke.

I pack exactly 14g of shisha every time, which seems to be the capactity of my bowl.

I always use the same amount of coal - the exact amount differs by coal type, but is consistent for each type.


Since I have achieved the flavor I want with these conditions, I know that it is possible to do so. Therefore, suggestions for a different shisha, or other gear, don't serve my purpose - it would take more testing time than I have to demonstrate, for example, that all of the shishas I have tried are mysteriously sometimes good and sometimes bad, even from the same container, but that another brand never suffers from such variability.

I do appreciate the suggestions in the spirit meant. I believe posters here want to help me have a good smoke, and I am grateful for any time taken towards that goal. I'm just extra grateful for people who share my goal of a repeatable controlled experience.

If it is literally true that a very large number of variables which I cannot control will be in play for every session, then this is not the activity for me - that might be a valuable lesson in its own right.

[Chiefin]

This will be my last reply until after I've tried a thorough cleaning, as I will then have new data to contribute. I believe the thread has gotten off track and think I have to restate my objective.

I'm trying to determine what it is that changes between sessions that are great and ones that are not. I've eliminated most of the variables I've known about

Since I have achieved the flavor I want with these conditions, I know that it is possible to do so. Therefore, suggestions for a different shisha, or other gear, don't serve my purpose - it would take more testing time than I have to demonstrate, for example, that all of the shishas I have tried are mysteriously sometimes good and sometimes bad, even from the same container, but that another brand never suffers from such variability.

No, this thread is exactly on track. You've been smoking good shisha with a cheap dirty hookah. Thats like playing golf at Augusta with a set of Wilson clubs. I assure you - when your hookah and hose [pending it being washable] are clean, you will notice a huge difference. Pack your bowl lightly and try putting ice in the base. Some people prefer no-ice because it brings out the flavor. For me, it feels like the colder the smoke, the more condensed it becomes, and the more flavor i get. Edited August 13, 2008 by Chiefin

[kudomonster]

My friend has a nice large MYA, but he never cleaned it. It was so caked and disgusting that i had to use a hose outside instead of the sink, where i normally clean my hookahs. After the cleaning it tasted normal again... but before that it was awful pull and awful taste.

Grab some brushes and get cleaning! I use a brush maybe once every few months, but after every bowl i run hot water down the inside of the steam to clean out the gunk. Never had a problem!

[newjacksm]

My friend has a nice large MYA, but he never cleaned it. It was so caked and disgusting that i had to use a hose outside instead of the sink, where i normally clean my hookahs. After the cleaning it tasted normal again... but before that it was awful pull and awful taste.

Grab some brushes and get cleaning! I use a brush maybe once every few months, but after every bowl i run hot water down the inside of the steam to clean out the gunk. Never had a problem!

I dont have a brush at all to get down into the stem, I usually run hot water every 3-5 smokes have had my hookah for 8 months. I do how ever put seltzer in the stem of my hookah because I have heard that the carbonation can clean it up real fast in there real easy. Edited August 13, 2008 by newjacksm

[Victim026]

If you lack a brush I've had good results with a little lemon juice or alcohol with a coarse salt in the stem and shaking it with both ends plugged semi-violently. It seems to get most of the junk outta the stem when I don't have a brush available.

[newjacksm]

If you lack a brush I've had good results with a little lemon juice or alcohol with a coarse salt in the stem and shaking it with both ends plugged semi-violently. It seems to get most of the junk outta the stem when I don't have a brush available.

I just did this didnt really see anything come out at the top of the stem, the thing that hold the bowl I see some brown stuff it almost looks like rust, but I cant really put my finger on it. When I look down my stem I dont really see anything else and dont smell a fowl oder anymore...

[Kusk]

Just to cover all bases, check the session setup.

The most hands-on advice I can give is to visit a few hookah bars. If there is a place that does deliver the flavor, scope their setup. Ask the people there what sort shisha , coals, etc. they use. Lots of hookah bars do actually sell shisha and coal, and the people tend to be pretty laid back to answer questions.

Best of luck on your search for flavor Edited August 14, 2008 by Kusk

[ryno]

I'd suggest a phunnel bowl and a clean hookah.... Good luck on getting this to work

[psantucc]

Just to cover all bases, check the session setup.

The most hands-on advice I can give is to visit a few hookah bars. If there is a place that does deliver the flavor, scope their setup. Ask the people there what sort shisha , coals, etc. they use. Lots of hookah bars do actually sell shisha and coal, and the people tend to be pretty laid back to answer questions.

Best of luck on your search for flavor

I think this is excellent advice. It's a bit difficult to implement; I live in Ohio, which has banned smoking indoors in public places. This makes it difficult to maintain a lounge.

One has opened this week quite near my place of work. I'll make a visit next week and if they deliver the goods I'll apply for training.

Even if my new local isn't up to snuff, I have a backup plan. I'll return to Las Vegas and Paymon's in January 2009; I intend to beg for training. If necessary, I will wax car and sand floor.

[psantucc]

Weekend report: No joy.

After a thorough cleaning and new Fumari coals, I notice an improvement in the quaility of flavour, but no change in the intensity of flavour for which I had hoped.

I tried one bowl of Fumari Strawberry and one of Romman Mint.

At this point, I am no closer to explaining the variability of flavour intensity. My last hope is consultation with lounge staff.

[Bulldog_916]

Stop smoking fumari and romman. Switch to AF or Tangiers or Al Waha or even Nakhla. The four I listed have generally been in good standing. Flavor is amazing.

[Stuie]

I will add my 2 cents:

1. Clean your hookah like everyone said. May I suggest though Dawn Dish Soap + Hot Water + Bathtub + Canon's Wonder brush.
http://www.hookahforum.com/?showtopic=20218
Just made one the other day... Better than any other brush I have ever owned...and cheaper!

2. Ryno might be on to something, Phunnels are a bit easier to get stronger flavor than other bowls by design.

3. New hose, trust me man, some non washable hoses can get to the point where it strips away all flavor, my old cobras started doing that before they started rusting.

4. Try another hookah. Don't me buy one, but borrow one. Determine if it's your hookah or your packing and heat management thats the problem

[NarghileNights]

Stop smoking fumari and romman. Switch to AF or Tangiers or Al Waha or even Nakhla. The four I listed have generally been in good standing. Flavor is amazing.

fumari/starbuzz are generally the highest in flavor for "newer" smokers having a hard time getting things working.

good choice on the fumari coals - my favorite also.

[mya2323]

Stop smoking fumari and romman. Switch to AF or Tangiers or Al Waha or even Nakhla. The four I listed have generally been in good standing. Flavor is amazing.

fumari/starbuzz are generally the highest in flavor for "newer" smokers having a hard time getting things working.

good choice on the fumari coals - my favorite also.

Just try adding a bit of milk to enhance the flavor. Anything BUT whole milk is fine.

[Victim026]

Stop smoking fumari and romman. Switch to AF or Tangiers or Al Waha or even Nakhla. The four I listed have generally been in good standing. Flavor is amazing.

fumari/starbuzz are generally the highest in flavor for "newer" smokers having a hard time getting things working.

good choice on the fumari coals - my favorite also.

Just try adding a bit of milk to enhance the flavor. Anything BUT whole milk is fine.

Milk to enhance flavor? Who told you it would do that? A small amount of milk *might* make the smoke thicker but nothing more then that.