Almost Got A Disorderly Conduct For Hookah

[Snoopy1966]

Good Luck buddy! I could not believe this when I read it yesterday.

[Anxiety]

gj man. make this a big deal and show them whats up...it's disguisting at how some american law enforcements look at hookah...make a stand!

[roadie]

So, I'm enjoying a beautiful night with my MZ and Tangiers Schnozzberry, talking with some girls I met that turned out to live in the neighboring borough to mine back home...when the cops pull up, driving on the sidewalk.

Appearantly with the past weekend being move-in weekend, parents called in thinking it was NHT. The cops approached and asked "what do you think you're doing here?" "Just enjoying a session with schnozzberry shisha." "Well, you right here, right now, are actually in disorderly conduct. We have received numurous phone calls from parents thinking you are smoking NHT." I interupt "You can test this all you want," I hand them a jar"I do not use NHT, it has never been in my hookah, and never will be in my hookah." One of the three campus cops interupts "I know you are not smoking NHT, who would be dumb enough to do that in the Oak Grove? The problem is, that it is making a scene, all the complaints puts you in disorderly conduct, you right now trying to contest this, is in fact disorderly conduct." Me, "this makes no sense, its tobacco, hookahs are not illegal, I set up hundreds of times last year with my old hookah...". "Well its an issue now. If you leave now, we will not charge you, but if you EVER bring it back, you will be arrested, your hookah will be confiscated, then it is up to the judge whether you get it back." In fear of being put in cuffs, I complied and did not question anymore. They took down my information and I walked off campus smoking as I go.

So, I need help on this one here...this is complete bullshit. I want to fight it, I need to know where to find the statues towards this...Pa state law that shows that hookah is not illegal, and where I can find it in the student handbook(I forget where, but know its not listed as not allowed). I wanna take this up with the campus branch of the ACLU(American Civil Liberties Union), I thought that would be most appropriate. I also think I should see if the campus paper will take the case.

any advise at all, please send it my way. Also, anything you guys can find for me on this, please lend a fellow hookah fanatic a hand.


Still smoking,
Pat aka r1v3th3ad

The USA is one of the most constipated, close-minded country I have ever set foot on.

You really want to risk jail, or WORSE, getting your beautiful Hookah confiscated?

Parents that called are the same parents that run corrupt MPAA, RIAA and other *AA associations. They have no understanding of the World except their own little circle of beliefs.

Move on.

I am not gonna risk getting it confiscated, I wish to do it the proper way, through the legal system

Although I COMPLETELY disagree with them, the cops were within their rights to tell you that. If they get enough complaints from neighbors, students, etc. it doesn't matter if you were reading a book someone disagrees with, smoking a cigarette, or talking too loud on a cell phone. If it's causing a perceived "disruption" to the majority of people around, they will act on it. It's complete BS, but doubt anything can be done about it.

[Bulldog_916]

You gotta remember 1 thing: Cops are always trying to protect their own asses. Whether they arrest you or not, they weigh the consequences of doing so before they do it. If their bosses are your university officials, and your university officials agree with you, the cops will back off. They dont wanna cause a commotion that's gonna put a blemish on their record. Carry a letterhead permission form from your university citing all the rules and regs regarding hookah on campus or lack thereof. The university pays the department to patrol the campus. Use that to your advantage. Sounds like, so far, they are with you. Let's hope that it stays that way.

[Lysolz]

If -I- had hookah on campus here in the deep south I'm almost certain they would take it, cuff me, arrest me, and maybe even give me a shiner - no questions asked. (count your blessings)

But still, fight that shit.

[shisha fan]

reading all this makes me so happy i don`t live in the united states, the cops can`t even search you over here. plus nht smoking is allowed almost everywhere in the open air (it`s semi-legal over here) so they can`t confiscate it on suspicions. they would have a riot on their hands if they started confiscating things.

[liquidglass]

Hey man, sorry to hear of your troubles but here's some advice I can offer. I haven't finished law school yet but I'm a damn good BSer when it comes to cops that are dicks.

a little story about my experiences then advice for you...

1) I live in the university apartments right now and I smoke outside, not that the smoke detectors inside would catch hookah because it's not "hot smoke" but as a rule for myself and anyone entering my place that might smoke cigs, I don't want to be a hypocrite. Plus I'm great friends with the RD over the apartments and I do it to set an example for a few friends that have smoked inside their places. So he covers my ass if any campus authorities give me shit.
1b) Campus security here is a joke, they'd actually sit down and smoke with me if they ever saw me smoking.

1c) a few administrative people that are power hungry have attempted to move me from where i regularly smoke hookah stating the campus handbook rule of "being 25 feet away from any building, when smoking"
There are multiple problems with that rule, besides the fact that no one else follows it.
- The only areas within my complex I could move to would not satisfy the 25 ft rule, I've measured them myself to make a statement using sidewalk chalk to mark the overlaps. The only place 25 feet away would be in one of the surround roads.
- I actually attempted to move to the center of two crosswalks by my building where I was advised would be acceptable. However, there are problems with that....
- the buildings acted as soundboards and noise complaints rose 5 fold
- Being on the cross walk I blocked 4 directions of possible foot traffic, which is a fire hazard
- All surrounding area of said cross walk has grass and brush, all of which are treated with chemicals regularly...fire hazard...oh yeah.


2) cops are a different story. I've had a few cops come by my place, not necessarily for me but for other parties and people and decided to stop by to see if they could find out if everything was kosher. I've only had ONE cop smell the bowl, but I always offer them a pull on the hose to see for themselves if it's shisha. Most of them decline but a few try it out and then tell me to have a nice night.

Back to your story.....

3) Hookahs (proper ones) are in no way shape or form a violation of the paraphernalia statute and a little research could bring up great articles, and rulings based on this, which if anyone on here has problems with a cop or rent a cop trying to pull that statute on them can flash their way and they'll have to go about their merry way.


4) If the cops bother you again, politely ask for both their names and badge numbers. And if you want to throw in that you have someone who would be very interested in the event ask the cop when you can pick up a report of the incident for legal purposes. That'll scare most cops off and they won't mess with you. However, it depends on how nice you're wanting to play this is a little sneaky way to play head games with them.


5) A great idea would be to draw up a simple yet detailed paper listing facts and possibly myths about hookah. Then print off a ton of them and post them everywhere around the area, in fact leave them on people's cars (during daylight hours). You can even think of a creative name for the "cause"
such as: HT (hookah truth) or movement of knowledge. That way each one will appear close to official and no one will say anything about them. Plus it'll give you a great backstory if someone approaches you asking what you're leaving on their cars.


6) POLICE CANNOT ARREST YOU without reason or cause. So they get calls you're causing a distrubance, look up the laws dealing with a public disturbance and see if you could fall into any skewed version of them.
Talk to the cops in a coversational tone explaining why you enjoy smoking there and you're not trying to cause problems for anyone plus you would be happy to explain the facts of hookah to anyone that might have questions.


People are stupid, it's up to open minded ones to educate or at least give infallible reasoning to the close minded among us. KEEP UP THE FIGHT!

[Kapten Kanel]

Some very wise words written here, keep fighting!

[leadpipecinch21]

so i just skimmed through this thread, but i didn't see anyone else saying this, so hopefully it wasn't said, but...

a. Drug Paraphernalia – Any equipment, product or material of
any kind (containing evidence of any illegal drug and/or
controlled substance) (long list of nht stuff) and various types of pipes.

a hookah=water pipe...since it's a vague description pipe can refer to basically anything, and that's why they purposely left it vague. they're well within their rights not to allow a hookah on their property.

sorry bud...

[r1v3th3ad]

but, it has in there that they have to be intended for nht and also there is a part where it says it has to actually test positive...

thanks everyone so far
big thanks to liquidglass on your document...this will help in the future.


I'm still waiting for a second response from the campus. If they dont get to me by my first class on Tuesday(going away for weekend), I'm going on to the student paper and ACLU...

[erufiku]

Give me a man and I'll find a clause...

[r1v3th3ad]

Just got an email back...I was sick of waiting to here from him yesterday, so I emailed him asking what the hold up is...the bottom of the quote is from him, the top is my return I just sent now...Little nervous about meeting the head bully(cmon, we all know that all campus cops are bullies)

No problem at all. MWF I am in class until 2:15, Tues and Thurs until 1:45.
Thanks,
Patrick Conley


On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 16:01:47 -0400
"*********" <*******@iup.edu> wrote:
> Patrick,
>
> I am going to have someone call you and schedule a meeting for us to
>sit down and discuss. It would be much better to do this way rather
>than talk by e/mail. Is that ok with you.

[jezter6]

No sense in being nervous. There's nothing he can do to you in a meeting.

Be polite, plead your case calmly and without getting nuts (I have trouble with that myself).

Remember - no threats to him. Don't threaten to ACLU him. Don't say you're talking with lawyers, just plead your case as an ordinary.

It may help to have a witness in case he threatens YOU with anything, so it might be good to have someone with you, but is probably not necessary by any means.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

I would have a trusted (and sensicle) friend with me Riv, just to even the odds and make sure they don't try to strongarm you. I don't trust law enforcement to play fairly and by the rules...The best thing you could do would be to stay calm, concise, and polite, as if you were in a business meeting.

GOOD LUCK! Keep us updated...

[r1v3th3ad]

I'm considering asking my friend Jason to join me...he is very political and knows everything when it comes to the law...what they can and cant do...he is a very political hippy

I still have this gut feeling that since he wants to meet in person and since I had mentioned ACLU and the student paper that he is gonna try pulling some loophole on me, maybe even my past history(expunged state level, but happened on campus, so not expunged there...)

I'll let you guys know more as soon as I do

[jezter6]

Don't let him threaten you because of past activity - this is for once incident (and not really for that incident since it's kinda resolved - but to prevent further incidents).

Hell, you may wish to invite other people from the university as well - like the dean guy you talked to or whatever.

[r1v3th3ad]

Patrick,

Bill (edit name) and Sam (edit name) will be available to meet with you tomorrow, Thursday, Sept. 4 at 2pm. Please report to the University Towers, Police Dept. to meet with him.

Thanks,
(edit secretary name)
Office of Public Safety/Police
University Towers
850 Maple Street
Indiana, PA 15705
(edit phone and email)

This is the email I just received back from the secretary or whatever she is...
anyway, I did further research to find out that the second person is a lieutenant in the investigations part of the school police dept. here

hmmm, really making me wonder now.

I am gonna take my hookah, entire rig of it including shisha, in good faith...gonna tell them they can test the entire thing(as long as no damage is done to it), but that they will find what I have told them, it is non-nht and not illegal under federal/state/ and school laws. I will also be taking a copy of the student handbook which has nothing against hookah in it...I may also link them to the forum maybe I can convert them to the way of the wondering hookah

anything else, any other documents I should print and take with me?

should I be worried on this, should I take my buddy who is a know all on the law?

[Stuie]

take your buddy, a tape recorder and possibly a bull horn to get through to them.

[r1v3th3ad]

under advice of many, I'm not gonna take my hookah and I have contacted the student paper....noone was there at the time, but I left a message for someone there explaining the story and what happened, as well as linking them to here and asking them if they would join me tomorrow...
they will get it tomorrow around noon. I am stopping in after my class ends(12:15)
I do not have a taperecorder or transportation to buy one, so I need someone from the paper to come.

[srawas89]

Hey this sounds like a really great plan and in my opinion I think what is going to come out of it is that the cops were being too harsh and the complaints of you smoking on campus (thinking it was NHT) will probably be chalked up as a one time incidence because of all the parents present. However I applaud you for standing up for something that was quite ridiculous (i.e. the cop's threat to arrest). Let us know as soon as possible what is the outcome and good luck.

[aethiolas]

First of all let me say it sucks that they done this to you but let me offer my 2 cents. First of all, cops are there to serve the public at large. What they were doing was normal behavior b/c you were upsetting people so I can't blame them for running you off once. The matter of threatening you otherwise about coming back was over the line, however, be calm. You get a lot more things accomplished with cops( and most people in administrative positions) by taking things easy. I would HIGHLY recommend that you do not speak with the school paper until well after you have spoken with the officer as getting the media involved is only going to make it seem like your on vendetta to make them look bad rather than just resolving a situation. The media can be very helpful if he is not but at least give him a chance before scaring him like. Last but definitely not least, act professionally in everything you do with this entire situation. I love my hookah and I applaud anyone willing to stand up for it but acting unprofessionally will only make our horrible stereotypes worse. Anyway man, good luck, I'm waiting on pins and needles!!

[r1v3th3ad]

One good reason(mushrat planted this idea in my head) for bringing the paper to the meeting is that two cops, one kid...they are both credible witnesses to each...which they could screw me on big time. I'm going in the morning to see if the paper wants in on it...otherwise I'm out on a limb going, but I will go regardless. It is outrageous to tell me that I will be arrested for not breaking the law. Hell, just yesterday, I had two friends tell me how they saw kids smoking a "big hookah"(by description, I believe it was a nonname egyptian) outside of the new dorms...they also saw bike patrol and foot patrol for campus go right by them and not say a word.
I guess its a case of selective wrong-doing.
I'm thinking maybe with that that had happened over the past few days, maybe they just wanna explain to me why the officers did it and maybe tell me that they have no problem with me doing it, just not to contact the ACLU or something, or maybe they wanna barter with me to not do it during peek parent periods.
I would have no problem not setting up when parents are heavily there, if they are willing to be peaceful, but that bullshit with what happened to me will not fly.
I am gonna remain on the peaceful route as well as the legal route. They deny me, I wont go rebel and set up anyway, I will rather call the ACLU amongst news agencies.

Catch up later

[Canon]

honestly, i would call the police station and talk to someone with a little more authority. explain it to them and see if they could side with you. theres a chance they dont but its better then nothing

[Hookah S Moka]

ya cant wait to hear what happens here, but just like everyone else, there just like you and i, hopefully reasonable ppl and hopefully will cooperate with your reasoning

[r1v3th3ad]

I just loled...I just talked to my girlfriend. Her dad just recently retired from the state police in Punxsutawney(IUP branch campus there, its 30 mins away)...He was the station commander and a sergeant. He also did work for the LCB(Liquor Control Board)...which involved him working main campus as well. Anyway, she told me to tell him that Sgt. Rodney (last name here) said hi lol. They knew each other very well. Told me to tell him that me and her were engaged and are still planning to get married...and then go from there with the meeting lol.
I might pull the card if necessary. Her dad had a lot of authority and was one of the most respected officers in this region.