Mccain's Candidacy

[Bulldog_916]

I agree with you up to a point. In an idealized world, maybe someone would go to the hospital and help an underprivileged family with their medical expenses. Maybe the free market would work as it is supposed to. Maybe religion and policy would somehow be able to go together in harmony. Maybe people could be trusted with automatic weapons or handguns. Or even explosives would only be used to mine or clear land for roadways. But I hate to burst the ideological bubble here, but greed, human nature and power hungriness trumps all of that. It's almost without fail. No one unless it was forced upon them would seriously go to a hospital and fork over 50 bucks to help a single mom take care of her doctor's expenses. We like to think that we would, but when push came to shove, we would keep our money in our pockets because we are all greedy.

That's why taxes are a necessary, if imperfect, evil. It's in the Constitution under the 16th Amendment. "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." Now, you may be asking "Well, what about the 24th Amendment that protects your right to vote even if you have not paid taxes?" And I say that is true, but that does not make it constitutional not to pay taxes as the 16th points out. Checks and balances.

That's why regulation is almost a prerequisite to having any working service in place. Greed will undoubtedly take precedence over the greater welfare of the masses. That's what happened here in California, that's what's happening now in the case of the Freddie-Fannie takeover. More regulation is what's needed to make sure that the free market can work within limits. Checks and balances.

[Bulldog_916]

And the McCain campaign's own little corruption disaster-in-waiting just continues to unfold....

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157439

And, because I feel like it is so necessary to understand the lengths to which the right will go to evoke fear into the hearts and minds of Americans and to exploit such a terrible tragedy again and again...I give you this. Thank you Keith Olbermann for once again stepping up and having the balls to call this kind of shit out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/05/k...e_n_124179.html

I say with great pride and honor that I dont want four more years of this disgusting bullshit. I have friends who were there, who still live there with their family. Edited September 6, 2008 by Bulldog_916

[TheScotsman]

And the McCain campaign's own little corruption disaster-in-waiting just continues to unfold....

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157439

As Governor Palin is the chief law enforcement officer of Alaska. If you look at the actual disciplinary action taken by the dept you find out they found him to be guilty of tasering his own 11 year old son in front of Palin's daughter "just to prove he wasn't a mama's boy" There have been allegations from private citizens alleging police abuse/excessive force. (still investigation, no details aval) AND he said in front of other troopers at work that if his wife (Palin's sister) tried to divorce him he was going to kill her parents. Now, under Biden's own VAWA law both such are domestic violence charges, and negate his ability to own/handle/posses/control a firearm. As chief law enforcement officer it is Palin's job to protect the public, the chief wouldn't take action against him, so she did. It was her job, and obligation. We all know how the "thin blue line" protects it's own, someone has to keep police abuse curbed.

Would you want to be pulled over by a trooper who had a mental defect that lead him to taser his kid to prove he didn't cry? That's pretty jacked up by any standard!

And, because I feel like it is so necessary to understand the lengths to which the right will go to evoke fear into the hearts and minds of Americans and to exploit such a terrible tragedy again and again...I give you this. Thank you Keith Olbermann for once again stepping up and having the balls to call this kind of shit out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/05/k...e_n_124179.html

I say with great pride and honor that I dont want four more years of this disgusting bullshit. I have friends who were there, who still live there with their family.

Aye, that was exploitative, and unneeded at best.

Oberman is still an arse.

[Johnny_D]

Yer, I see that old obama bloke in england.
He must fucking love this cuntry.

He makes me nervous for no other reason than he makes me nervous.

Gordon fucktard Brown and Ombaba. A match made in hell I fear.

JD

[Bulldog_916]

And the McCain campaign's own little corruption disaster-in-waiting just continues to unfold....

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157439

As Governor Palin is the chief law enforcement officer of Alaska. If you look at the actual disciplinary action taken by the dept you find out they found him to be guilty of tasering his own 11 year old son in front of Palin's daughter "just to prove he wasn't a mama's boy" There have been allegations from private citizens alleging police abuse/excessive force. (still investigation, no details aval) AND he said in front of other troopers at work that if his wife (Palin's sister) tried to divorce him he was going to kill her parents. Now, under Biden's own VAWA law both such are domestic violence charges, and negate his ability to own/handle/posses/control a firearm. As chief law enforcement officer it is Palin's job to protect the public, the chief wouldn't take action against him, so she did. It was her job, and obligation. We all know how the "thin blue line" protects it's own, someone has to keep police abuse curbed.

Would you want to be pulled over by a trooper who had a mental defect that lead him to taser his kid to prove he didn't cry? That's pretty jacked up by any standard!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...4111&s_pos=

This is what the trooper story comes down to. Frankly, I believe him. His record doesnt show a pattern of misconduct. If you dont think kids wanna do things just to see what it feels like, why are so many sticking screwdrivers in wall sockets? LOL I think the kid wanted to see what it felt like to get tased.

The whole shooting a moose without a permit thing doesnt sound like a firing violation to me. Even the department let him off with a 5-day suspension over both the taser and the moose incidents. I bet they investigated it more than we have.

[ghostofdavid]

The idealized world can be made reality if people get up and do something about it. I am a logician, realist and skeptic and with all three of these worldviews, what I said is not only plausible but possible. Religious organizations/nonprofit were (and often are) at the root of most social work before it was governmentalized. Many hospitals have some sort of religious theme attached to them as it stems from the same provisional-to-the-poor mentality. Orphanages? Same thing. Food pantry? Slang nominclature for free food stores are the Deacon's Pantry (not to be confused with the Deacon's Panty). Society, for America, was not built on the 'greater good' or punishing the lawful to prevent the unlawfulness but was mostly given to individual freedoms. Unfortunately, this was never carried out to its proper length but it was tried and worked for a long time. Laws that restrict the law abiding citizing are terrible and not what the forefathers had in mind when constructing our government. Of course, I don't think the Consitution is much of a living document so if you think this is the case, we're at a moot point.

Giving away 50 bucks a month or 5-10 percent of one's income isn't unreasonable and it not a push-comes-to-shove issue. I am guessing everyone on this board has enough food and plenty of shelter. After all you, like me, are smoking shisha, accessing the internet and own a computer... Hell, I'd encourage everyone to give away five solid dollars of money to some sort of charity a month... if nothing else, you can selfishly feel good knowing your five bucks went to something greater than a combo meal at your favorite junk food establishment (Chipotle, for me).

Greed isn't the issue, its mostlly complacency... especially in my observation of America.

What do you mean by free market and regulation? The two are polar opposites as I understand them. The free market, unregulated, weeds out inferior/unsafe/unstable entities because of competition and repeat business.

God, I missed this board! You guys are the best!

I agree with you up to a point. In an idealized world, maybe someone would go to the hospital and help an underprivileged family with their medical expenses. Maybe the free market would work as it is supposed to. Maybe religion and policy would somehow be able to go together in harmony. Maybe people could be trusted with automatic weapons or handguns. Or even explosives would only be used to mine or clear land for roadways. But I hate to burst the ideological bubble here, but greed, human nature and power hungriness trumps all of that. It's almost without fail. No one unless it was forced upon them would seriously go to a hospital and fork over 50 bucks to help a single mom take care of her doctor's expenses. We like to think that we would, but when push came to shove, we would keep our money in our pockets because we are all greedy.

That's why taxes are a necessary, if imperfect, evil. It's in the Constitution under the 16th Amendment. "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." Now, you may be asking "Well, what about the 24th Amendment that protects your right to vote even if you have not paid taxes?" And I say that is true, but that does not make it constitutional not to pay taxes as the 16th points out. Checks and balances.

That's why regulation is almost a prerequisite to having any working service in place. Greed will undoubtedly take precedence over the greater welfare of the masses. That's what happened here in California, that's what's happening now in the case of the Freddie-Fannie takeover. More regulation is what's needed to make sure that the free market can work within limits. Checks and balances.

[NJE03]

theres not much of a choice between obama and mccain. the media decides who wins the presidental race. and ive known since march-april that obama was going to be the next president. imo the right choice would have been ron paul.

You have basically summed up my views.

Ron Paul for the win.

[Bulldog_916]

I'm not saying we should save every establishment that screws up. I'm saying that beyond this point, there should be strict rules on banks and other financial establishments. It's necessary, almost required. Believe it or not, this bail-out is gonna save the stock market a further decline into full recession/depression. Not the ideal way to do it, but market sentiment is one of the drivers of stocks. If market sentiment is pessimistic, its gonna send the market even lower, causing large companies to buy back stock to keep the prices stable. Not an ideal way to handle things at all. But banks got into this mess and now government is trying to get us out of it.

[TheScotsman]

And the McCain campaign's own little corruption disaster-in-waiting just continues to unfold....

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157439

As Governor Palin is the chief law enforcement officer of Alaska. If you look at the actual disciplinary action taken by the dept you find out they found him to be guilty of tasering his own 11 year old son in front of Palin's daughter "just to prove he wasn't a mama's boy" There have been allegations from private citizens alleging police abuse/excessive force. (still investigation, no details aval) AND he said in front of other troopers at work that if his wife (Palin's sister) tried to divorce him he was going to kill her parents. Now, under Biden's own VAWA law both such are domestic violence charges, and negate his ability to own/handle/posses/control a firearm. As chief law enforcement officer it is Palin's job to protect the public, the chief wouldn't take action against him, so she did. It was her job, and obligation. We all know how the "thin blue line" protects it's own, someone has to keep police abuse curbed.

Would you want to be pulled over by a trooper who had a mental defect that lead him to taser his kid to prove he didn't cry? That's pretty jacked up by any standard!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...4111&s_pos=

This is what the trooper story comes down to. Frankly, I believe him. His record doesnt show a pattern of misconduct. If you dont think kids wanna do things just to see what it feels like, why are so many sticking screwdrivers in wall sockets? LOL I think the kid wanted to see what it felt like to get tased.

The whole shooting a moose without a permit thing doesnt sound like a firing violation to me. Even the department let him off with a 5-day suspension over both the taser and the moose incidents. I bet they investigated it more than we have.

So, just for the record, let me get this straight...
You are saying it's OK for a state trooper to operate his state police cruiser drunk (he admits to doing this on several occasions), taser children, and make terroristic threats of domestic violence against women, have it all swept under the rug, and not have the person covering for him canned.

That's screwed up.

[Bulldog_916]

I dont know if you read the story or not but none of those claims about domestic violence were ever substantiated at all.

"Wooten, however, contradicted Palin's statement that she overheard him in 2005 threaten her father during an argument with Palin's younger sister, Molly McCann, Wooten's wife at the time. Wooten noted that an internal investigation failed to sustain the death-threat allegation." Someone must have fact checked that before putting it in the conservative Washington Post right?

Havent you ever heard of conflict of interest? Governors should not be pressuring any investigation in any way. They are to be completely impartial during such a time. She had a vested interest in seeing Wooten fired and she went out of her way to try to make it happen. That is a conflict of interest. The troopers did an internal probe of Wooten's activities and suspended him for 5 days for events that happened months before the investigation and she became governor. When she didnt see the outcome she wanted, she fired Walt Monegan because she felt like he was protecting Wooten.

"In the meantime, several state employees working for the governor or her administration and deemed crucial witnesses by Branchflower have canceled appointments to give depositions. All potentially could be subpoenaed."

"One of the employees is Frank Bailey, the governor's director of boards and commissions. He was recorded on tape questioning why Trooper Mike Wooten was still employed.

Wooten divorced Palin's sister and served a five day suspension after the Palins filed a complaint against him for threatening Palin's father.

The Palins also accused Wooten of using a Taser on his stepson, drinking in his patrol car and illegally shooting a moose.

In the recorded conversation, Bailey is heard telling a lieutenant with the state trooper's office: "Todd and Sarah are scratching their heads, why on earth hasn't, why is this guy still representing the department? He's a horrible recruiting tool. ... You know, I mean from their perspective, everyone's protecting him."

Bailey is on paid leave. Last week he gave a sworn statement to Van Flein, telling the attorney he acted on his own.

But Bailey's lawyer Greg Grebe had kept Bailey from meeting Branchflower because, like Van Flein, he questioned Branchflower's jurisdiction."

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/sep/0...-trooper-probe/

[jezter6]

you guys are funny. of all the things someone could be caught doing to count as corruption or being a bad leader - this is your big stance? you going to try and impeach her once she becomes VP because of it?

getting someone fired is the absolute lamest of things to come up with to discredit her. Obama's stealing your money - that's ok, but Palin got someone she doesn't like fired - send her to the gas chamber for it.

You guys really REALLY need to learn how to pick a battle. Keep blowing up every lame ass story into your big "Alaskagate" and everyone on the planet is going to see you guys as the little boys who keep crying wolf.

[TheScotsman]

I dont know if you read the story or not but none of those claims about domestic violence were ever substantiated at all.

"Wooten, however, contradicted Palin's statement that she overheard him in 2005 threaten her father during an argument with Palin's younger sister, Molly McCann, Wooten's wife at the time. Wooten noted that an internal investigation failed to sustain the death-threat allegation." Someone must have fact checked that before putting it in the conservative Washington Post right?

Havent you ever heard of conflict of interest? Governors should not be pressuring any investigation in any way. They are to be completely impartial during such a time. She had a vested interest in seeing Wooten fired and she went out of her way to try to make it happen. That is a conflict of interest. The troopers did an internal probe of Wooten's activities and suspended him for 5 days for events that happened months before the investigation and she became governor. When she didnt see the outcome she wanted, she fired Walt Monegan because she felt like he was protecting Wooten.

"In the meantime, several state employees working for the governor or her administration and deemed crucial witnesses by Branchflower have canceled appointments to give depositions. All potentially could be subpoenaed."

"One of the employees is Frank Bailey, the governor's director of boards and commissions. He was recorded on tape questioning why Trooper Mike Wooten was still employed.

Wooten divorced Palin's sister and served a five day suspension after the Palins filed a complaint against him for threatening Palin's father.

The Palins also accused Wooten of using a Taser on his stepson, drinking in his patrol car and illegally shooting a moose.

In the recorded conversation, Bailey is heard telling a lieutenant with the state trooper's office: "Todd and Sarah are scratching their heads, why on earth hasn't, why is this guy still representing the department? He's a horrible recruiting tool. ... You know, I mean from their perspective, everyone's protecting him."

Bailey is on paid leave. Last week he gave a sworn statement to Van Flein, telling the attorney he acted on his own.

But Bailey's lawyer Greg Grebe had kept Bailey from meeting Branchflower because, like Van Flein, he questioned Branchflower's jurisdiction."

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/sep/0...-trooper-probe/

he admits to it. that isn't substantiated, I don't know what is.
Palin never said SHE heard it, it came from other troopers.
Palin made none of the calls, emails.

So, let me get this straight... you are saying when someone says the if the wife files for divorce, he is going to kill her parents, and that is not a terroristic threat of violence, and an act of domestic violence? Lets hear your response for the record before we look at Wooten's reported threat, and who actually was present when the threat was made.

Go read biden's VAWA law, terroristic threats are considered an act of Domestic Abuse. Maybe you need to research the VAWA more thoroughly, you would be surprised what can be considered DV. Biden sponsored this blatantly sexist law, by the way.
http://www.vantageproed.com/viol/violdiet.htm


biased story, and poorly written to hide the facts. Yet another example of the liberal media in action.

Lets see some stories about Biden's brother, and his son in that fine multi million dollar corruption probe. Or did you just forget that in your obamessiah-induced frenzy to find a problem with Palin doing her job as the chief law enforcement officer of Alaska?

Don't take me wrong Bulldog, I completely respect your position, and you do make some good points, I would just like to see the same scrutiny applied to both sides. The Nation is at a pivotal point in our history, and we need to be fully informed about both sides.

[judgeposer]

I don't know if anyone happened to catch this Sunday's Meet the Press on which Sen. Biden appeared, but I would venture to guess that his appearance will cause the next controversy of this election (transcript here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26590488/page/4/). In response to questions from Tom Brokaw, Sen Biden attempted to reaffirm his Catholic faith while also remaining pro-choice.

I don't mean to instigate discussion about abortion, I just seek to point out how pro-choice Catholic politicians seem to welcome a fight they cannot seem to benefit from, especially the most prominent among them, Sen. Biden, who's running for vice-president. A growing list of Catholic bishops, which numbers 26 at the moment, some with national prominence, have already rebuked Speaker Pelosi's same attempt. Such attemtpts bring nothing more than scandal and scrutiny (from the media, voters, and the Church) that just doesn't seem to ever benefit the politician who seeks to amend his religiosity with his politics.

On perhaps a more personal note, I am dumbfounded how these politicians, Sen. Biden among the most famous and most recent, seem to believe that "(human) life at conception" is a controversal statement, one which must be accepted on grounds of faith, if at all. The academic world, legal scholars, philosophers, biologists, etc., seem to have reached the most basic of all deductions: human life exists at conception. These same scholars, some of whom are even pro-choice, have "moved forward" in that debate from that most basic premise to argue next about whether that particular life must be afforded legal protection. I just point this out to preempt debate here about whether human life exists at conception--an overwhelming amount of scholarschip has deduced that it does! The debate is not (was it ever?) about this question. The debate is about whether that life, in its most immature expression, warrants legal protection.

That Sen. Biden, among others, believe the question of whether human life exists at conception, mischaracterizes if not definitely misconstrues the issue. It tells of a deep-seated unreasonable apprehension of basic facts and the logical deductions we can make from them. So, for Sen. Biden to frame the argument thus, "For me to impose that judgment on everyone else who is equally and maybe even more devout than I am seems to me is inappropriate in a pluralistic society," betrays common sense in numerous ways. What the Senator and like arguers seem to say is that they are willing to scarifies something they believe in simply because there happens to be a diversity of opinion on the matter.

First, I challenge that there exists a diversity of opinion on this matter--see my earlier comment on academic consensus. Second, it seems implausible, no matter how pluralistic the world happens to be, for someone to necessarily concede ground on what they believe because someone else, or some other group, believes differently. Even if we accept the Senator's red herring that there exists a diversity of opinion, when has such a diversity of opinion ever mattered to whether one scarifies their beliefs?

[Bulldog_916]

McCain's campaign is turning into a schoolyard game of "I punch you, I tell mommy (Main Stream Media) that you punched me!" I'm surprised the polls are as close as they are right now. ANY elementary level research on the Republican nominee and VP pick will give you a who's who of campaign double talk, 2-faced lying, and blatant personal attacks. Even Fixed News called McCain on the "Lipstick on a Pig" "scandal." You Tube Search: McCain + Lipstick on a Pig and that will give you several instances he used that exact phrase to describe some election cycle topics.

The Palin "Bridge to Nowhere Opposition" lies continue to flourish. She agreed that the state should use the infrastructure funds to build the bridge. Then when congress cut the idea, she came out against it, but the state still kept the funding to build it and even laid road all the way to where the bridge would have been on taxpayer money. The "I fired my cook" story is false as the chef position in question was renamed, the duties were kept and the pay still comes. The "I eBayed the plane" lie is funny because the state still had to pay $20,000/month to have the plane even if they werent using it. It's hardly a maverick practice seeing as it's common for the state to auction state property off through sites like eBay. And it took 8 months to sell the thing all the while the state was paying to have it. All told, $160,000 was wasted while the plane wasnt being used and was listed on eBay. This is what Republicans want to help elect to the first and second highest posts in the land.

[judgeposer]

There's so much campaign news out there to read, but here's something I enjoyed:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/0...alin/print.html

It's from the ever-novel Camille Paglia, an Obama supporter.

[Bulldog_916]

That definitely was quite the interesting read. The thing about Sarah Palin is that there's a facade to her. The facade is the nice, homely mom figure, who doesnt appear to be politically malice or cut-throat on the podium. The real picture that I keep seeing is this smart, almost brooding figure who, if given the opportunity, will 1. inject church teachings into public schools, 2. rally against womens' rights of choice, 3. make it impossible for stem cell research to be performed, 4. continue to cut taxes while supporting another war-hawk administration, and 5. not do a single thing to help struggling industry retain American man-power. The whole thing is just fake to me. Women who call themselves "Clinton Supporters" should be able to see through this.

[liquidglass]

Great, so you lot are going to stiff the world, AGAIN, with another fucking idiot president?

Thanks chaps,

Love & Best Regards,

England

Lol well if you want a carbon copy of Bush in office then by all means encourage McCain's presidency to your stateside friends. Then you guys can follow us blindly into some other badly planned thing.

[liquidglass]

you guys are funny. of all the things someone could be caught doing to count as corruption or being a bad leader - this is your big stance? you going to try and impeach her once she becomes VP because of it?

getting someone fired is the absolute lamest of things to come up with to discredit her. Obama's stealing your money - that's ok, but Palin got someone she doesn't like fired - send her to the gas chamber for it.

You guys really REALLY need to learn how to pick a battle. Keep blowing up every lame ass story into your big "Alaskagate" and everyone on the planet is going to see you guys as the little boys who keep crying wolf.

Actually it was the Rep. side that made the whole Alsakagate thing so popular, everything else is just a response, know what you're talking about rather than just bashing.

[cotsi95]

UMMM ya i dont know whats going on in this thread but i found this VERY cool

Cindy McCain - Drifter!
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/...videoId=3578032

[TheScotsman]

Hmmm... no one ever wants to talk about Obama Bin Corruption, or Joe "this is my boy" Biden.

Lets hear about ARORN, and the Woods Fund, "My Boy-Biden"'s son, and brother taking millions... About his son being a lobbyist (talk about your conflict of interest). Hunter Biren's corp council looking at a federal money laundering charge. How about MBNA (Delaware's largest employer) cutting a big check for Hunter Biden just before Big-Daddy-Biden voted on a bankruptcy bill that was unanimously rejected by consumer watchdog groups. (Ya, Biden is looking out for you, sure... Just keep telling yourself that while he finishes fleecing you... Sheeple in action)

Bush isn't running, that one more term of Bush horseshit is stupid, and just shows a lack of any substance from the Dems. If all they have is "one more term of Bush" to campaign on, there is bloody little worth electing there.

Lets hear about the Dems having an ABC news reporter roughed up, and chucked in jail for trying to film Dem bigwigs, and big $ contributors in a public place.

Or Obama's thugs out protesting WGN-AM radio for having an Obama critic on the air.

Obamamessiah's campaign has resorted to intimidation and legal threats to convince television stations and the federal government to force off the air an ad by the American Issues Project detailing the link between Sen. Obama and remorseless domestic terrorist William Ayers. I guess if you can't cover it up, you suppress the truth, no wonder the chump doesn't wear an American flag on his lapel.

How about the 100K earmark for that racist/renegade catholic priest, Pfleger? Would you give an SOB like him 100K of your money? Obama did.

Or maybe talk about those fine obamites shitting on the Fallen Police Office's memorial at his pre-primary rally. Seen any apologies? ya, right... of course not.

Obamasama can be most easily summer up with... http://bp2.blogger.com/_Jav7FPZftEU/SDWD1Z...+Is+Reading.JPG Reading a book about when American no longer matters. ("The Post American World" would be the title.) Nice candidate, just what we want for president.

How about Obama appointing Penny Pritzker, the sub-prime loan queen that controlled a bank that went under costing 1400+ people all/most of their savings... and what do you think the boy genius, obama, appointed her to? try his National Campaign chairman. Bahahah... then he talks about sub-prime victimization, all the while hiring one of the victimizers. funny... in a hypocritical, sick sorta way.

Lets hear about the 8k/month "retainer" killerspin paid him just before he helped them secure a multi-100K grant/contract. No corruption there, nope.

The list could go on, but I am sick of typing. Edited September 11, 2008 by TheScotsman