the Dahaka Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 For all of you who didn't know yet, ice should be mandatory. I'm not going to go into fancy words like "aroma" and "smoothness" just yet but it really makes such a difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookahDuck Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Hmm... ice comes up often here. It depends on who you talk to. Water becomes more soluable(and nicotine is water-soluable) when chilled or heated and thus more of the nicotine is removed from the smoke(though its still a negligable ammount). This could be why you experiance greater flavor; as the vaporized glycerine is more "pure"(and I'll use that term sparingly). (1)However, so little of the surface area of the smoke spends time in the water, and for such a short ammount of time that the temperature of the water be is 3* C or 27* C is not going to have a huge impact on the density, flavor, or taste of the smoke.I've always wanted to try near boiling water in the base, and see how that smokes. Water is an extremly effective solvent at high temperatures(much more so than at low ones). I'll post my results if I ever get around to it.Oh... btw. Susan Salb(Chem 2 AP), and (1)Eric Hoffman(Tangiers). Had to get my foot notes in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I have been super happy with ice. I'm not sure exactly why... just my experience that ice rocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavlakos_politakos Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 same here.i never smoke without ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I JUST fired mine up PACKED in ice, ice baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I never use ice. Most chemicals solubilities are expressed in terms of the solvent. In general, the warmer a solvent is, the more stuff can be dissolved. Oddly, nicotine in water folds over and becomes less soluble at around 60C. There is some optimal temperature probably 57 or 58C that is the optimal point for dissolving nicotine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I just figured out that too much ice is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR Bubble Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 [quote name='pimpy']I just figured out that too much ice is bad.[/quote] I hope we don't have another cracked base MR Bubble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwini Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 But if you had a chiller hookah, wouldn't you be able to put your ice in the "ice chamber"? That way, you'd be able to cool the smoke without decreasing the amount or temperature of water it has to travel through. It sounds like if you dig the cooler smoke, a chiller hookah is worth the extra ten bucks. I'll be here all week!-Kiwini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Nono... thank god... I read this joint first. Saved my base, I'm sure.Smoke was just super harsh.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 [quote name='pimpy']Nono... thank god... I read this joint first. Saved my base, I'm sure.Smoke was just super harsh..............[/quote]Ice had nothing to do with it...use the search function, regarding humidity or humidity shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookahDuck Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Tangiers is dead on. The ice cannot cause your smoke to be harsh. Most likely you used too much heat.And "chiller" hookahs are a complete waste of money. I've smoked them side by side compared to hookahs without them, and there is absolutly no difference. Not even slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartvarg1 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 yea i never use ice with my chiller. its a gool-looking little gimmick though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I think the trick is to have a little ice in there, but then it melts rather quickly. They need a way that you can keep adding ice, without pulling the whole thing off the base. If some created an attachment like that, I'd buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwini Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 [quote name='HookahDuck']And "chiller" hookahs are a complete waste of money. I've smoked them side by side compared to hookahs without them, and there is absolutly no difference. Not even slightly.[/quote] I disagree. I have a three-hose chiller from Hookah-shisha and filling the chamber with ice cools the smoke significantly. The shaft also conducts the chill, so much so that all the metal perspires like an ice-cold Pepsi commercial. Compare that experience with the exact same hookah the next day without ice--it was like an smokeout on an Oklahoma summer. I could see that this might depend on the hookah...or perhaps you were using hotter ice. -Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmexx Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 My IceTorrent is completely useless. It's a beautiful machine, I may add, and it's saved my floor before.We were smoking and the ice turned into water. A friend of mine pulled the hose a little too hard and BAM, the hookah fell. Luckily for us, the water in the ice chamber fell before the coal did and put that bad coal out before we even knew what happened. Great little safety feature, I guess.Even ice in the base doesn't make the world of a difference. To get a more "fresh" smoke, put some creme de menthe in there, mixed with the water. Now that's fresh!Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwini Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Dang--nothing sucks worse than a falling hookah. Actually, there was a frat that burned down last semester because the guys tipped the hookah over and one of the coals rolled under the couch. Oh snap. You're right about the ice/water tipping a chiller over; someone's always gotta keep an eye on it (especially when people are walking around it). Creme de menthe? That would be awesome! I've tried a shot of jager or some wine in the water before, and it really adds to the taste of the smoke. But I'll have to try some good ol' mentholated lovin'. Good tip! ...How does the placebo work if you're diabetic?-Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sariél Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I DO use colder ice! I fill mine with salt water, screw on the tray to seal it, and keep it in the freezer. I also use 50% ice 50% water in the vase.I just wish they made it to rest on the top instead of screwing it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Yeah man. Falling hookahs blow! I got a few spots in my otherwise-nice carpet to prove it.What I've found is that, if you're having a party, or planning to get extra effed up, you can tie the shaft to a table leg or something. That's saved me a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 [quote name='Kiwini'][quote name='HookahDuck']And "chiller" hookahs are a complete waste of money. I've smoked them side by side compared to hookahs without them, and there is absolutly no difference. Not even slightly.[/quote] I disagree. I have a three-hose chiller from Hookah-shisha and filling the chamber with ice cools the smoke significantly. The shaft also conducts the chill, so much so that all the metal perspires like an ice-cold Pepsi commercial. Compare that experience with the exact same hookah the next day without ice--it was like an smokeout on an Oklahoma summer. I could see that this might depend on the hookah...or perhaps you were using hotter ice. -Steve[/quote] Think about it from the perspective of chemistry or physics. "Cool" a smoke? Lets say you are actually cooling the "smoke". What does cool have to do with it? The thing that makes smoke harsh is nicotine or crummy tobacco. Those chemicals, once they're vaporized don't care what temperature it is, they get to your mouth, throat and lungs and they tell you that the smoke is harsh. Yes, the hookah condensates...this is caused by the shank being colder than the dewpoint of the air...so the air immediately next to the shank condensates because the immediate relative humidity goes to 100%. For all intents and purposes, that moisture is also causing condensation inside, which results in moisture entering your tobacco, reducing the average specific gravity of the liquid. (Referring to ice-bath models). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 [quote name='Tangiers'][quote name='pimpy']Nono... thank god... I read this joint first. Saved my base, I'm sure.Smoke was just super harsh..............[/quote]Ice had nothing to do with it...use the search function, regarding humidity or humidity shock. [/quote]You sir, seem to be correct.I just made the connection that this was also my first time trying it with the wind shield, making it much hotter... probably too hot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 [quote name='Tangiers'][quote name='Kiwini'][quote name='HookahDuck']And "chiller" hookahs are a complete waste of money. I've smoked them side by side compared to hookahs without them, and there is absolutly no difference. Not even slightly.[/quote] I disagree. I have a three-hose chiller from Hookah-shisha and filling the chamber with ice cools the smoke significantly. The shaft also conducts the chill, so much so that all the metal perspires like an ice-cold Pepsi commercial. Compare that experience with the exact same hookah the next day without ice--it was like an smokeout on an Oklahoma summer. I could see that this might depend on the hookah...or perhaps you were using hotter ice. -Steve[/quote] Think about it from the perspective of chemistry or physics. "Cool" a smoke? Lets say you are actually cooling the "smoke". What does cool have to do with it? The thing that makes smoke harsh is nicotine or crummy tobacco. Those chemicals, once they're vaporized don't care what temperature it is, they get to your mouth, throat and lungs and they tell you that the smoke is harsh. Yes, the hookah condensates...this is caused by the shank being colder than the dewpoint of the air...so the air immediately next to the shank condensates because the immediate relative humidity goes to 100%. For all intents and purposes, that moisture is also causing condensation inside, which results in moisture entering your tobacco, reducing the average specific gravity of the liquid. (Referring to ice-bath models).[/quote]I love this guy!So, is it your claim that cooling does nothing?Or does it:a) Have a different feel to your throat/lungs? Affect the buzz somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Thanks. Its complicated. Try using Extremely hot water in your jar. See what that does. Be careful! Thermal shock can shatter jars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Don't keep me in suspense... what does it do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwini Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Harsh smoke and hot smoke are two different things. A harsh smoke usually comes from the tobacco actually burning, not just becoming carmelized or 'toasted'. Because the heat causes the shisha to burn, the resulting smoke carries resultant chemicals and by-products of combustion; chemical you wouldn't normally get from lower temperatures. The 'bite' you get is from these by-products, not the temperature of the smoke itself. So I would argue that a chiller hookah does not keep the smoke from getting harsh. Rather, a chiller hookah cools the smoke itself so that the smoke traveling across your lips is at a lower temperature than the same smoke without an ice chamber. Ice chambers and the like cool the smoke as it travels down the shaft of the hookah. The persipiration is a visible effect of the chilled temperature of the hookah shaft; if your hookah was red-hot, it would not gather dew on it. So the situation is this: a relatively hot shisha smoke fresh from the bowl travelling down a chilled shaft of metal. In essence, you have a simple refridgerator. (where the liquid is smoke, as opposed to refridgeration fluid). Basic rules of chemistry make this a moot point: since the container in which the heated smoke travels is cooler, the smoke's heat is conducted into the chilled metal of the hookah shaft. Naturally, models of chiller hookahs vary along with their effectiveness, but the essential concepts are present. Hot water in the bottle of your hookah will cause the smoke to be warmer. The heat is conducted from the water to the smoke, which then goes into your mouth. You notice while the smoke may not 'bite' the back of your throat (from harsh smoke), it DOES feel warmer. What makes a chiller hookah better than filling your bottle with cold water is the duration in which the colder metal is in contact with the smoke. Comparitively, the smoke spends a longer time in the shaft of the hookah than traveling through the water in the bottle; this causes a greater temperature drop for the smoke for chiller hookahs than iced-water hookahs. And that, my friend, is why I dropped Engineering for English.-Kiwini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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