pimpy Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Very nice explanation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 [quote name='Kiwini']Harsh smoke and hot smoke are two different things. A harsh smoke usually comes from the tobacco actually burning, not just becoming carmelized or 'toasted'. Because the heat causes the shisha to burn, the resulting smoke carries resultant chemicals and by-products of combustion; chemical you wouldn't normally get from lower temperatures. The 'bite' you get is from these by-products, not the temperature of the smoke itself. So I would argue that a chiller hookah does not keep the smoke from getting harsh. Rather, a chiller hookah cools the smoke itself so that the smoke traveling across your lips is at a lower temperature than the same smoke without an ice chamber. Ice chambers and the like cool the smoke as it travels down the shaft of the hookah. The persipiration is a visible effect of the chilled temperature of the hookah shaft; if your hookah was red-hot, it would not gather dew on it. So the situation is this: a relatively hot shisha smoke fresh from the bowl travelling down a chilled shaft of metal. In essence, you have a simple refridgerator. (where the liquid is smoke, as opposed to refridgeration fluid). Basic rules of chemistry make this a moot point: since the container in which the heated smoke travels is cooler, the smoke's heat is conducted into the chilled metal of the hookah shaft. Naturally, models of chiller hookahs vary along with their effectiveness, but the essential concepts are present. Hot water in the bottle of your hookah will cause the smoke to be warmer. The heat is conducted from the water to the smoke, which then goes into your mouth. You notice while the smoke may not 'bite' the back of your throat (from harsh smoke), it DOES feel warmer. What makes a chiller hookah better than filling your bottle with cold water is the duration in which the colder metal is in contact with the smoke. Comparitively, the smoke spends a longer time in the shaft of the hookah than traveling through the water in the bottle; this causes a greater temperature drop for the smoke for chiller hookahs than iced-water hookahs. And that, my friend, is why I dropped Engineering for English.-Kiwini[/quote]So, wouldn't "cooling" the vapor (more properly) just increase the reflux of vapor into the liquid? That just reduces the amount of vapor...that may be what makes the experience more "pleasurable"?The problem that I've seen is that icing the shank, bath or jar simply changes the smoke and allows more nicotine through that makes it more harsh...how is that better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 [quote name='pimpy']Don't keep me in suspense... what does it do?[/quote]Try it and see how it changes the smoking experience...if I got to make a rule, it would be everybody has to use hot water in their jar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Here's a possible theory:Lungs absorb warm air easier than air.Therefore, if you have cool, harsh smoke, your lungs are not able to absorb it that quicky, so you don't feel it that bad.Whereas, if the smoke is the perfect temperature, then you want your lungs to absorb it quickly, so warm is better for a strong buzz.If that holds, it seems that I should use warm water to find a level of coal heat that makes for pleasant smoking, so I get the coals/shisha combo right, then switch to ice if I want to slow down the buzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Lungs absorb warm air easier than cool* air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buford Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I've noticed that ice in the base seems to make Nakhla mango taste better than using plain tap water out the cold spigot for some reason. I have a Mya QT and put a ton of ice in it, like 15 ice-maker-size pieces or so.I always use ice now, but I'll have to try using warmer water as an experiment.On another unrelated note, I found that adding honey to Nakhla banana doesn't improve it any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Nahkla mango is quite bitter, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buford Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Mango is one of my favorite Nakhla flavors, and occasionally it does come across as tasting like actual mango. Other times it's a little nondescript. I've had the best luck with ice but it's hit or miss.Two folks have commented that the smoke from the mango smells like pot smoke if you're not actually smoking the shisha. I can't detect it when actually smoking the mango, but I know from years of smoking Virginia and latakia pipe tobaccos that the smell you detect when you're actively smoking something is different from the smell you get if you're not. It's probably due to the "fresh" smoke you draw in having a slightly different composition and odor than stale sidestream smoke that has already passed through and been somewhat filtered by a person's nasal passages/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 [quote name='Buford']Mango is one of my favorite Nakhla flavors, and occasionally it does come across as tasting like actual mango. Other times it's a little nondescript. I've had the best luck with ice but it's hit or miss. Two folks have commented that the smoke from the mango smells like pot smoke if you're not actually smoking the shisha. I can't detect it when actually smoking the mango, but I know from years of smoking Virginia and latakia pipe tobaccos that the smell you detect when you're actively smoking something is different from the smell you get if you're not. It's probably due to the "fresh" smoke you draw in having a slightly different composition and odor than stale sidestream smoke that has already passed through and been somewhat filtered by a person's nasal passages/mouth.[/quote]Wow! I never heard that about the mango before!But I must say, my girlfriend would agree!She's like - are you guys smoking pot!?"No, dear!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buford Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 [quote name='Tangiers']Try it and see how it changes the smoking experience...if I got to make a rule, it would be everybody has to use hot water in their jar.[/quote]Wow, I just tried it, and man, it does make a difference. Still got a minor buzz (using Nahkla mango), but it made it smooth as silk. Never thought I'd get to say that about Nahkla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 That seems to imply that warm water absorbs more nicotine...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 [quote name='pimpy']That seems to imply that warm water absorbs more nicotine...?[/quote]To a degree, its one of the quandries in engineering...temperature accelerates the reaction, but the reaction starts to slow down if it gets too warm...so where the optimal point? Likewise is true for the conversion of carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide...it produces heat...we like Carbon dioxide, but hate carbon monoxide...heat is produced so if the environment warms up, it shifts equilibrium back towards the reactants (carbon monoxide), but heat in general accelerates the process...so what temperature is the best for charcoal to burn at to minimize the production of carbon monoxide?Water that is near boiling (99C) will absorb nicotine more poorly than water that is 50C, I think.Mango flavor contains mercaptans, which are not stable in oxygen. They start out as a sweet, fruity flavor and then degrade into a bitter flavor when the sulfur is kicked off by oxygen from the air. I haven't released a mango flavor because I am trying to come up with a good way to make a mango and make it stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyBiz Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I tried out some of these theories last night. First I packed the vase with ice, smoked a bowl like usual, and it was pretty good. Then I added warm water, probably a little higher than room temperature. Worked out alright, but the smoke got harsh quickly. Then I tried it with just a little cold water so it was just below room temperature. WOW. On that last one I got the biggest head rush of my life. It was like the first time I ever smoked. I was f'ed up, that's for sure. I suggest trying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I concur. Just a few pieces of ice make it perfect.Only problem is, over the course of an hour, it melts and you lose the effect.The best case would be an attachment that lets you add more ice without taking the whole thing off the base.Someone, please invent that.Kthanksbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 When I first started smoking, I put ice in the base every time. Lately though, I've just been using cold water and I've noticed absolutely no difference. I only do it for "special" occasions or when somebody I'm smoking with insists that it makes the smoke better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 [quote name='Brad']When I first started smoking, I put ice in the base every time. Lately though, I've just been using cold water and I've noticed absolutely no difference. I only do it for "special" occasions or when somebody I'm smoking with insists that it makes the smoke better.[/quote]How long do you smoke tho? And what temp is the room? If the idea is to keep it below room temp, than ice is necessary at my house cuz otherwise it warms up over a two or three hour session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 We probably smoke our bowls for 1 or 1.5 hours. Room temperature is usually around 75 in my house. I can smoke using room temp tap water and still not notice a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 OK Just did the experiment... I really think ice made it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 [quote name='pimpy']OK Just did the experiment... I really think ice made it worse.[/quote]Ah vindication. I am not some crackpot, talking to myself.[Who are you talking to?!?][Nobody, I just, well...][You know what the doctor said about that!!][But, I...][Take your pills, now.][Oh, shoot.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpy Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 [quote name='Tangiers']I am not some crackpot, talking to myself.[/quote]Let's not get ahead of ourselves now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Dahaka Posted January 31, 2006 Author Share Posted January 31, 2006 Well, I see this thread derailed rather nicely... In my experience, added ice tends to make the smoke a bit thicker and also bring out the flavor more. I'm talking about a variety of El Nakhla flavors and putting ice cubes straight into the base, not coolers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Yes, adding ice does make the smoke thicker, it reduces the reflux of the "smoke", additionally, it probably reduces the amount of buildup on pipes, requiring less cleaning AND lengthening the life of parts like hoses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavlakos_politakos Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 [quote name='the Dahaka']Well, I see this thread derailed rather nicely...In my experience, added ice tends to make the smoke a bit thicker and also bring out the flavor more. I'm talking about a variety of El Nakhla flavors and putting ice cubes straight into the base, not coolers.[/quote] not alot for me to say so...i agree 100%.i never smoke w/out ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookahCaterpillar Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 In terms of health benefits I dont think it is any healthier. The smoke is cooler and actually i think it cuts down on the flavor because of the coldness in your throat. At least in my experience thats what i have found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seandoo Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 I've smoked with ice compartments that you can buy as add-ons to specific hookahs, probably the mya saray ones, but never tried a prebuilt "chiller" hookah. The lack of effect on these prebuilt ones may have to do with the materials they're made of - I know of a decent amount of places that acutally build the body of their hookahs out of plastic (the inside may be metal, but the conduction of coldness would work much better if the outside were, too, since that's where the ice goes). Maybe this could be the problem on some hookahs? Not sure, but the one time I tried cappuccino in a hookah with an ice compartment, the smoke (vapor) sank towards my feet from being pretty freakin' cold. I loved it, it was like smoking something on ice from Starbuck's or Dedreich's...it was completely noticable in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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