Haram?

[ALI]

i have a question for all muslims and people who may be educated in islam. i am a muslim and enjoy smoking hookah, however i am not clear on whether it is haram or maybe just makrooh. this makes me feel very weary when i smoke, so i try not to smoke too much. i think of it kind of being like eating an oreo or something, when it comes to hurting your health. so maybe its just makrooh. i could live with that, but i would like to see your guys' opinions on this. any thoughts, whether you really know or not, just showing your opinion would be good. maybe give me a few different view points to see it from and decide for myself. thanks for any help and opinions. its greatly appreciated :^)
-Ali

[SmokinMoose]

Smoking I believe is Makrooh.

[ALI]

i am thinking to be haram it must be completely obviously stated in the Quran. this is kind of holding me back though. i feel kind of guilty.

[steeeeeeve]

Im sorry but im not a muslim, would one of you mind explaining the two terms? im very interested

[ALI]

yes, haram is strictly forbidden. makrooh is more like disliked or not preferred. thanks for taking interest :^)

[steeeeeeve]

Always interested in other cultures, misunderstanding is what leads to racism due to ignorance rather than ill intent so i want to understand all i can

Thank you for explaining it

Steve

[ALI]

not a problem, thats a good attitude that hookah smokers tend to have. just to give hookah a try, or even accept it, you have to be fairly open minded. its nice to see people like this. its not common where if from, sadly, haha, i live in kentucky.

[SmokinMoose]

Just ask a scholar there are many websites where you can post a question.

Most likely this question has been asked.

[ALI]

yeah, it has, but a lot tend to say haram. but i think its makrooh since its not specifically stated that smoking is bad, and some sites also say its makrooh. I guess i just need the support of other people to make me feel like its not haram so i dont feel bad, haha. (please just lie to me, joking)

[chromecarz00]

Ok so basically its makrooh but haram if you have serious health issues from it. LOL and we follow shariah for current guidence, the quran while is law does not address all aspects of life.
any other qs?

[steeeeeeve]

Well i look at hookah not as a past time but as a tradition belonging to an old and amazingly interesting culture, it would be a crime to take up hookah without wanting to know ANYTHING about the history and culture behind it.

i dont know everything about it and i doubt i ever will but im enjoying slowly piecing parts together.

for example i know people who feel its acceptable to smoke during various fasts however others strongly disagree.

if haram is strictly forbidden i believe hookah in moderation would be makrooh as there are heath downsides however it is also relaxing which has health benefits, it could also be considered to be a time honored tradition of a culture and as such would be respectful to try from time to time from an understanding point of view, would you goto another country and totally forgo there culture?

im no muslin expert but that is where my logic would place it as muslims are generally very welcoming, understanding and respectful towards other cultures.

Steve

[ALI]

Ok so basically its makrooh but haram if you have serious health issues from it. LOL and we follow shariah for current guidence, the quran while is law does not address all aspects of life.
any other qs?

yeah, that is how i feel. so now i see some people feel the same as me. :^) thanks for the help

[ALI]

Well i look at hookah not as a past time but as a tradition belonging to an old and amazingly interesting culture, it would be a crime to take up hookah without wanting to know ANYTHING about the history and culture behind it.

i dont know everything about it and i doubt i ever will but im enjoying slowly piecing parts together.

for example i know people who feel its acceptable to smoke during various fasts however others strongly disagree.

if haram is strictly forbidden i believe hookah in moderation would be makrooh as there are heath downsides however it is also relaxing which has health benefits, it could also be considered to be a time honored tradition of a culture and as such would be respectful to try from time to time from an understanding point of view, would you goto another country and totally forgo there culture?

im no muslin expert but that is where my logic would place it as muslims are generally very welcoming, understanding and respectful towards other cultures.

Steve

i am glad you are interested. Indian, Arab, and North African culture are all very rich in my opinion. (btw, i usually consider all these as the same overall race, just shades of brown, haha, even though, of course, i am not implying that it is any better than any other culture. but this is the culture we are discussing). Have you really met someone who smokes during fasting? i know it is currently Ramadaan, and we cant eat, so it seems kind of obvious that we cant smoke, definetely since it also has a taste. we cant even take medicine, so it seems strange that a muslim could justify smoking. but thank you for your thoughts. i appreciate your time and help. i always enjoy discussing religion, culture, and last but not least, hookah :^) haha Edited September 16, 2008 by ALI

[steeeeeeve]

Out of a good 40 or so muslims i keep in regular contact with about 30 smoke hookah and about 10 of them carry on during ramadaan, only two of these however strictly stick to muslim "law" for want of a better word.

i live in london and at my university on my masters course out of 35 people 3 of us are english, the first thing i felt was anger that i was outnumbered in my own country but i have always grown up with african and arab friends so i gave it a chance and my honest thoughts now are that my knowledge and understanding is much better for it.

i have had conversations with greeks, africans, indians, all sorts of arabs and the religions i have encountered are amazing, some i didnt even know existed and i have since starting this masters become utterly fascinated with the different cultures.

the best example was explained to me by an iraqi friend when we discussed differences, he said english people have so much hate and when i asked what he meant he explained that in iraq even if you hate someone to the point you want to kill them if they are brought to your house by a friend or family member you will be civil to them, you will offer them food, shelter but in england this doesnt happen and i found this to be amazing but also i now realise english people really do harbor too much hate and it would be incredible for this to be realized by more english people and adopted but also we have aspects that members of other cultures i know have openly adopted since being here.

i myself now have a metal plate in my face as a result of a drunk, its incredible that these things just happen due to "misunderstanding"

if it wasnt for my iraqi friend i would not have tried shisha, if it was not for my african friends i would not have tried certain foods, and if it was not for me and others like myself they would not have experienced clubs and ways of our culture, the only way we can benefit from multiple cultures in one society is to understand each other and share culture traits.

Steve

[ALI]

that is wonderful! my best explanation for the american mindset is that they spend too much time trying to decide who to hate, rather than who to help. we always want to kick out the mexicans, and stop terrorism. due to this, my family applies for a visa every year to just visit america and see us, and repeatedly get rejected. if only everyone could have the experience you have had to meet these people. we would have a much better, richer society in the west. i am guessing that most of those people who smoke during fasting must either be REALLY addicted, or just not very religious. i tend to try to be as religious as i can, but while still living, and having fun in moderation. do these people also say all 5 prayers everyday? not being rude, but it just seems amazing that a muslim would smoke during fasting. i have never met any muslim who smokes during fasting. even those who are not all that religious. my friend from saudi arabia even stops smoking, and he smokes maybe 2 bowls a day and cigarettes on top of that... but anyway, i guess its just more of a personal decision. im not really addicted, i dont have a need for it, so to be sure, i wont smoke. (even though i do believe it breaks the fast and makes it invalid)... but anyway...again, its Wonderful you met these people. i wish i had more people where i live who are interested... in any culture. i only have one friend who really is fascinated, the others seem to care less, and even say they would bomb the entire middle east. how can a Christian bomb where Jesus was bombed. this is pure hate and racism. Edited September 16, 2008 by ALI

[steeeeeeve]

Two are strict but the others are what i would describe as "modern" muslins who follow to the point that it can cause problems with the modern life style which is obviously a personal choice but i think is reasonable.

my experiences i like to think sent me the right way but it could of easily send me the other way. london now has MANY people of all cultures coming here to live, some are outstanding and do good jobs, some just claim benefits, depending which you have experienced meeting you could end up understanding like myself or you could end up racist.

unfortunately this rise in cultures here is causing a rise in racism at least from the experience of myself and those i know who experience it fist hand, this is why i say misunderstanding is the path to racism from ignorance most of these people dont know why they hate only that they do and even i was angry before i had experience as i said:)

if i walk into many shops that sell shisha i get asked for double the actual price because i am white (i tested asking my iraqi friend to ask for a price after me) and this is equally due to misunderstanding because if they understood i respect there culture then this would not be the case i feel.

Steve

[ALI]

yes, you are correct, it could have sent you toward being more racist. but come on, with that many, they cant all be bad, haha... at least i would hope not:^) sometimes i am walking somewhere and a white person may come and ask me where im from, and i feel strange. this has happened several times. i always felt kind of offended, but maybe they are like you, and are just curious and genuinely interested. i never really thought of it this way. it just seems strange to me that people would want to learn, it always seems they just tend to go with the flow and hate. so im glad you bring this to my attention. some people are just interested. and i think this is how most of us feel, we think, "this person hates us", so we will be rude at first, and discriminate against whites, without giving anyone a chance. it comes from both sides. i hope that hookah can maybe be the doorway to slow racism down a bit. like a chain reaction, hookah, middle east and india, islam, muslims, etc. , and open everyones mind to all people.

[ALI]

well, i guess im off to bed, ill be happy to continue this discussion tomorrow, everyone please leave all thoughts, greatly appreciated and very interested in all views. good night and peace to all.

[steeeeeeve]

i ALWAYS ask where someone is from the colour of the person doesnt matter, it could be 100 miles away or 1000 miles away there is no difference because the culture is different, in london we live one way in manchester it is like another country, i dont see this as different from london and any arabic city the only differences could be language and politics which are still a brilliant talking point, my friend from iraq is called Ahmed, we had a two hour conversation about how many different ways this name is said by different people. english say ahh-med his arab friends would pronounce it ack-med which i found amazing

i live with a guy with african parents and we discuss that there are differences all the time, not bad differences but differences none the less and more often than not we discuss this over guess what? hookah

Steve

Edit - spelling Edited September 16, 2008 by steeeeeeve

[TizaNabi]

I've seen a lot of sites and read about this. There are many who inerpret Sharia that have said it's Kharam always. Some only during Ramadan.

And of course it depends on which sect of Islam you hold by. Start with wikipedia, but gofrom there to particular sites of Sharia and their views. Its not hypoctical , to see one interpretation and one the opposite since you would hold always by that one set. Its the same in different state laws in the USA. I don't know about now, but in Texas drivng license was at age 15 in 1960's and in New York isn't it in the 20's?

Some states have dry laws, different ages for drinking, some cities can't sell drink until12:00PM on sundays etc.

Just yesterday I saw online that some Rabbis just found for certain that cigarettes have substances that are not allowed on Passover for the 8 days. Now I get the feeling that someone will look into shisha too. Don't tell me that you know what the cigarette companies put in their brands. In Africa the same cigarettes smoked in America are much higher in nicotine content, to get them hooked. They don't have American standard as of yet so the tobacco grous take advantage. I can't smoke on Saturday the Sabbath and so 8 days of Passover will not kill me.The basis for both our beliefs is that our bodies are not our own but a gift from G-D. Our Rebbe said that suicide is as bad as murder.(Don't tell that to the guy who gets murdered).

[Alp]

I live in Istanbul/Turkey and people smoke hookah even they are strictly religious. It is a common activity to smoke hookah after dinner after fasting in ramadan. But in Turkey also there is the same debate. IMHO its not haram because i dont think that its harmful, but if you think smoking hookah is harmful, then its haram for you, because as far as I know, according to Islam you are responsible to protect the health of your body which Allah provided you to use carefully. I think that the only way to decide it is to compare the situtation with Qoran, because in the prophets era there was no flavored shisha smoking hookah In addition to this, thinking universally, harming a living thing is haram/forbidden/sin in all religions Edited September 16, 2008 by Alp

[aleemkahn]

I wouldnt smoke during a fast because you're not allowed to smoke during fasting. But all i gotta say is that there are so many muslims smoking shisha/hookah in Islamic countries like egypt, turkey, morroco and most of the Arab countries. Also, no one can clearly say that hookah is really bad for you. We all know its slightly bad for us, but not as bad as scientists and doctors claim. Also, i think its not haraam because its not intoxicating and doesnt not have a drug-like effect. If anyone gets 'high' over shisha, you are really weak and should see the doctor and see if you have got female reproductive organs inside you. Shisha is NOT addictive as theres not enough nicotine to make a person addicted. Peroid. Also, its makrooh if its addictive, and its not addictive so theres nothing wrong with smoking shisha. Shisha is a weak and washed form of tabacco, so dont be afraid to smoke it. Also, use natural coals not quick lites. Natural coals have way less carbon monoxide producing chemicals in them. Edited September 16, 2008 by aleemkahn

[momatik]

In my opinion, it is not haram.

Here is my logic:

-First off, you have to take hookah out of the same category as cigarettes.
--Why? Because cigarettes do a substantial amount of damage to your body. They are also addictive. These 2 factors make cigarettes haram.

-Now the question to ask is how much damage does shisha smoke do to your lungs?
--This question can easily be answered. Shisha produces little to no tar, because you are not burning the tobacco, you are cooking it. There is a low percentage of nicotine. And the rest is sugars, which are easily broken down by the enzymes in your body.

-OK, so, although minimal, shisha smoke does do damage to your lungs.
--Well, fried food does damage to your arteries.

-However, fried food is not forbidden in the Q'uran.
--Why? Because, in moderation, these things can be enjoyed without doing a significant amount of damage to our bodies.
--If you're eating fried chicken everyday, it will do damage to your heart. This is why anything to excess our over moderation is considered wrong.

-Same thing with hookah smoke. Too much of anything is bad for you. So, smoking every once a while split with some friends, I don't see how shisha can do a significant amount of damage to your body.

I hope that helps.

[ALI]

i ALWAYS ask where someone is from the colour of the person doesnt matter, it could be 100 miles away or 1000 miles away there is no difference because the culture is different, in london we live one way in manchester it is like another country, i dont see this as different from london and any arabic city the only differences could be language and politics which are still a brilliant talking point, my friend from iraq is called Ahmed, we had a two hour conversation about how many different ways this name is said by different people. english say ahh-med his arab friends would pronounce it ack-med which i found amazing

i live with a guy with african parents and we discuss that there are differences all the time, not bad differences but differences none the less and more often than not we discuss this over guess what? hookah

Steve

Edit - spelling

i guess its a real mind opener :^) im happy all these people are interested in it, throughout the world

[ALI]

I've seen a lot of sites and read about this. There are many who inerpret Sharia that have said it's Kharam always. Some only during Ramadan.

And of course it depends on which sect of Islam you hold by. Start with wikipedia, but gofrom there to particular sites of Sharia and their views. Its not hypoctical , to see one interpretation and one the opposite since you would hold always by that one set. Its the same in different state laws in the USA. I don't know about now, but in Texas drivng license was at age 15 in 1960's and in New York isn't it in the 20's?

Some states have dry laws, different ages for drinking, some cities can't sell drink until12:00PM on sundays etc.

Just yesterday I saw online that some Rabbis just found for certain that cigarettes have substances that are not allowed on Passover for the 8 days. Now I get the feeling that someone will look into shisha too. Don't tell me that you know what the cigarette companies put in their brands. In Africa the same cigarettes smoked in America are much higher in nicotine content, to get them hooked. They don't have American standard as of yet so the tobacco grous take advantage. I can't smoke on Saturday the Sabbath and so 8 days of Passover will not kill me.The basis for both our beliefs is that our bodies are not our own but a gift from G-D. Our Rebbe said that suicide is as bad as murder.(Don't tell that to the guy who gets murdered).

yes, but i view shisha as being no worse for your health than a package of oreo cookies. i guess its not that bad... or maybe we should eat healthier as well.