Menu And Venue

[KippConnors]

So for those of you that read my introduction, you know im a small business student, for those of you who didnt read it, now you know anyway. ive been trying to come up with ideas for the hookah cafe i want to open and ive hit a rut... i cant decide what shisha to supply and what kind of layout i want. i mean in a perfect world, id stock every flavor and every brand, but thats just not financially possible at the startup point. i need some good flavors, so if you could id like to hear your favorites. and as for layout, what would you want? the hookah cafe near my old school was nice, a low couch around the entire store with hookahs and little side tables spaced pretty evenly, but i dont know if i want to do it like that, and if you were to smoke there what kind of hookah would you like to smoke out of? i appreciate any suggestions you guys share, and if i ever get the place up and running you can be sure the first smoke is on me for any one of you!

[Canon]

for the tobacco you want a cheap/easy tobacco. alot of ppl that go to bars cant tell the difference between tangiers and nakhla and alot of ppl like the latter. so i would say go with layalina or AF for your tobacco. i think AF would be a better option. as far as favorites go. id go with watermelon for sure and you have to have your mixing flavors like mint, lemon, vanilla, cinnamon. and your stand alone or mixed flavors like blueberry, raspberry, apple, and other various fruity flavors (stay away from passionfruit and grape).

as far as atmosphere goes. go with something comfortable. nice dim lights some music thats loud but nothing where you have to yell to hear someone. candles are a bonus but not really required. as far as having every type of tobacco and flavor. too many options can scare people. i say a list of 20-25 flavors would do well. (plus if you had that much tobacco things can get quite difficult for you when you cant find a certain type.

stick with one tobacco brand. have a list of flavors and keep them in stock. you can add flavors later on if you need to.

hope that helps

[momatik]

Definitely start with Al Fakher and Nakhla.

Both are good shishas price wise and taste wise.

Make the place comfortable and open, with furniture low to the ground. That will make the possibility of something falling over less.

Have a good selection of drinks and as well.

Experiment as well. Anybody can buy AF and sell it. Experiment with combinations, and make your own house specials, to keep people coming back for new and interesting things.

[melanko]

I'd have to agree with Al Fakher. Lot of good flavors, easy to use and not too expensive.

[steeeeeeve]

AF, good smoke nice taste and doesn't have the killer nak/tang buzz which could put some new people off.

Go for watermelon, mint, strawberry, grape the usual flavors

coal id recommend quicklights, i dont use them but they are much easier in lounges

[racemyghost]

AF, good smoke nice taste and doesn't have the killer nak/tang buzz which could put some new people off.

Go for watermelon, mint, strawberry, grape the usual flavors

coal id recommend quicklights, i dont use them but they are much easier in lounges

i would NEVER go to a lounge that uses quicklights. I rather smoke romman and al waha for the rest of my life then to use quicklights.

[GreatPigHookah]

i would NEVER go to a lounge that uses quicklights. I rather smoke romman and al waha for the rest of my life then to use quicklights.

Damn. That is serious.

[jezter6]

Unfortunately the speed of lounges generally prohibits slow light coals, but to each his own. Most "discerning" hookah smokers smoke at home and not in the lounge anyways, so those aren't the people you're catering to in a lounge.

[Cerritus]

Ya, naturals don't take that long and the taste is worth the wait. As far as brands go, stick to AF and Nakhla. I know the nakhla buzz is a bit much for first timers but they are the standard for some of the more common flavors like double apple. I'd also suggest that you pre-pack a few bowls of your most popular flavors/combinations. It'll save you a lot of trouble if you have a few groups walk in at once. As far as hookahs go, make sure you get something easy to clean and repair. Mya would be a good option, they pull well and are easy to clean and find replacement parts.

For the layout of the place I'd suggest making or buying some nice wide benches and end tables. You can put pillows on the benches and the customers can make themselves comfortable. This makes cleaning anything that spills a lot easier than having couch cushions to wash. (learned that one the hard way, then my roommate bought a bunch of pillows for our hookah area)

I hope that's helpful, I've been thinking of opening a little place after I get out of college and that's what I've figured out so far.

[coplinb]

I would have to say for the layout, go with something VERY open and only have spaces seperated by easily movable furniture. That way, it is very easy to change the layout to suit the needs at the moment, like say a large party comes in and needs the room, friends dont want to be forced to smoke in different areas just because there is to much furniture to move. As far as furniture goes, go with something very comfortable, nothing ruins a good smoke like an uncomfortable sit. Music, ambiance, and the whole nine yards is fairly easy and dont always go with what you think will be a smash, try to put your own style in it and make your place unique. Dont forget the beverages either, a good selection of coffees is almost as important as the shisha to some people. Hope my rambling inspired you for greatness!

[mattathayde]

the lounge i love back home has 4 brands, hookah-hookah, something, starbuzz and tangiers. and they charge different amounts for the different brands (lesser quality ones are like 10/hookah and it goes up to tangiers being 15/hookah) they make you buy a drink as a kind of cover charge but its a really nice place. they do use QLs but they have been using good quality ones that last a long time and dont put much if any other taste into them (i dont remember the name, but they were not very known)

they have 4 kind of nooks creaked by couches along one side and then 2 on the other before it gets to the bar they serve from. they also have like 5 tables and chairs around them through out the lounge. it holds 40 people by fire code so its not to huge but is normally pretty full on the weekends at least. the whole couch/cushions around the wall is nice but its hard and uncomfortable for people to sit on the other side to easily talk to each other.

for what hookahs to use go with something sturdy, good pull, and steady. the local place i had talked about used rotators, myas, and i think a few KMs/MZs or knock offs not really sure what they were i never paid attention to them but these were the least stable.

if it was me i would use washable hoses just because they will last longer and give better taste and no junk as long as you clean them.

now one thing that pissed me off to no end with a place up here by my school (other than that they didnt clean their hookahs) is that they wouldnt do any mixes if they were "busy", which was pretty much always. i dont see how it takes that much more time to make a mix but what ever.

just be sure to make it what you would love then ask your customers what they think, be available to talk to them and ask them what they thought and if they had a good time, that will give a lot of pluses

-matt

[Bulldog_916]

I would say just 2 rules:

1. DONT play popular music. I know it sounds counter intuitive, but if you play the popular music like rap or hard rock or whatever, you run the risk of having riffraff come around and stay. I love hard rock to no end, but I know my fellow fans too well. If you play good but unpopular music, they wont come around as much.

2. Surveillance and security are both pretty essential, especially if you're selling hookahs or tobacco as well. You're going to be checking IDs and if you have people under 18 getting pissed at you, you need an enforcer.

As far as ambiance, I would do a middle east theme but make it modern. Have a comfortable atmosphere. That goes along with the ixnay on the popular music. No one will be uncomfortable if you make the atmosphere nice and appeal to the greater group, the ones looking for comfort and a place to relax drama-free.

[Zinite]

I would say just 2 rules:

1. DONT play popular music. I know it sounds counter intuitive, but if you play the popular music like rap or hard rock or whatever, you run the risk of having riffraff come around and stay. I love hard rock to no end, but I know my fellow fans too well. If you play good but unpopular music, they wont come around as much.

2. Surveillance and security are both pretty essential, especially if you're selling hookahs or tobacco as well. You're going to be checking IDs and if you have people under 18 getting pissed at you, you need an enforcer.

As far as ambiance, I would do a middle east theme but make it modern. Have a comfortable atmosphere. That goes along with the ixnay on the popular music. No one will be uncomfortable if you make the atmosphere nice and appeal to the greater group, the ones looking for comfort and a place to relax drama-free.

I agree completely about the music. I'd play some relaxing acoustic music (Iron & Wine, maybe some Jack Johnson even though I don't care for him).

[KippConnors]

Wow, you guys have no idea how much i appreciate the advice, but i have another question; do you think the funnel bowls are practical for a cafe? ive never used one but after hearing so much about them im about to order one, but from what i hear they are somewhat complicated to set up properly compared to normal bowls. lets say on a busy night where im swamped with customers, would it just be a pain in the ass to pack funnel bowl after funnel bowl, or is it really not as hard as it seems?

[Stuie]

strickly from a business stand point probably not. 1) Price - Egyptians are cheaper 2) if you pack it right and the customers do good heat management it will raise your cost in coals because they will want more for a good 3 hour session, and then may buy less bowls per visit. 3) I would do it as a special, like people pay a few bucks more for the phunnel. Just my 2 cents for the capitalist system.

[mattathayde]

strickly from a business stand point probably not. 1) Price - Egyptians are cheaper 2) if you pack it right and the customers do good heat management it will raise your cost in coals because they will want more for a good 3 hour session, and then may buy less bowls per visit. 3) I would do it as a special, like people pay a few bucks more for the phunnel. Just my 2 cents for the capitalist system.

second it

i would get a few for your regulars that you will get (the ones that stay half the night and smoke and chill and promote for you) and those people that are really nice and all but there is no point for it on a regular smoker, your gona waste 2/3s of a bowl all the time cause a lot of people come in a smoke for a little then leave. deep egyptian bowls will laste a good long while and use like 1/3-1/2 of the shisha still and be fine for most of your customers

-matt

[NarghileNights]

find some reasonable priced decent quality egyptian hookahs. use a standard mod bowl for low tobacco usage and easy heat management.

try and cover as broad of a spectrum with flavors as you can. as stated before your usual customer has no clue on what tobacco is higher quality than others - they only care about getting tons of smoke followed by good flavor.

your regular customer will smoke for 45 minutes and be done. don't worry about that.

we used quicklites forever and they worked great. we recently switched to fumari jap coals after testing just about every coal on the market in a lounge setting.

play popular music! your target market is kids 18-25 and that's what they want to hear.remember you can always switch it up - throw some authentic saudi music in there and cover all your bases! you can refuse service to anyone so if you have a riff raff problem, make them purchase something or politely ask them to leave.

lounge area should be nice and open. think about implementing floor seating with rugs and pillows.

[modisess]

if it was me i would use washable hoses just because they will last longer and give better taste and no junk as long as you clean them.

+ 1, financially, Al Fakher Healthy Hoses are the best choice.

It would be cool if the menu included some ready-mixed flavors. You could name the mixes anyway you like, such as WangoBerry or (stealing from Baskin Robbins..) Berry Berry Strawberry.. you know, somewhere along the lines of that.

Also, you should have different people doing different job, like packing the bowls/setting up the hookah and also someone to manage the coals. I honestly think that it'll be a more efficient way of doing things.

DON'T play music that people would wanna dance to, I once was at a hookah bar and they were playing a "dancy" kind of song, a girl just pops out from her seat, WHILE HOLDING THE HOSE, to dance, the hookah fell over, breaking the bowl and i think she actually got hot coals on her feet. Some people are just dumb enough, or clumsy enough to do that.

IMO there's actually something as too comfortable for a hookah lounge, stay away from heavily cushioned couchs or sofas.. go with something a little firmer but soft. I actually get pretty lazy to hookah if I sit in an extremely comfy couch or sofa. But that is just my personal opinion.

Use natural coals and set up a pit for it. Keep it lit all night long until service is over, go with cheaper bulk/lump charcoal. The huge chunks of charcoal will actually breakoff into smaller (much smaller) pieces when they get hot enough. I would suggest keeping a fan blowing on the charcoal so they stay lit. You might go through alot of charcoal a night doing this.

That's all I can think of really atm.

[joelhookah]

i would have to agree with Nakhla and AF. they are both good shishas at a nice price and have quite an assortment of flavors. as far as hookahs i would say to invest in some good hookahs, MZ, KM, Mya, something with a replaceable base is always a good option. as far as hoses i would go with a good reputable yet inexpensive washable for sanitary reasons. i like the idea of rugs and pillows with floor seating, would make for a very comfortable environment especially if you were to get some nice oversized pillows. I like middle eastern music when I am smoking hookah, really helps me unwind. As far as phunnels I would have a few by request only though because the average customer wont know wtf a phunnel is. hope this helps

[mattathayde]

as a continuation to the pre mixed flavors idea the local place does special mixes of the week or like has one flavor that is the "mixer of the week" which you get a discount by mixing with that (i think they charge like a buck more to do a mixer as apposed to a straight flavor)

also what the place i love does is on sundays they have movie night, they play 3 movies over the night it seems to get a decent number of people in that are chill in on sundays and a lot of the nice regulars go to that
-matt

[melanko]

I think I'll need to throw in my opinion in what a hookah lounge should NOT be.

Recently I went out with my wife and a buddy of mine. Since we were in the area, we decided to hit up a Hookah Lounge we used to frequent about a year or so ago. They used to be pretty decent there, but they have gone so far downhill they may as well be in Death Valley.

#1. NO NO NO Quicklights. They used to use Japanese Naturals, but now they use these crappy quicklights that make the smoke taste like ass. Especially since the 'waiter' served us the hookah with the quicklight not fully lit yet.

#2. Used Rotator hookahs. They've always used Rotators, which isn't all too bad but there is a lot better. That one night in particular however it felt like there wasn't enough water in the hookah, cause when I pull I heard no bubbling. The only thing I could guess was they use a heba filter, but for some reason I don't think that is true. I own a Rotator myself and know how they should sound.

#3. Super tiny-ass bowl. Pretty much the smallest standard clay bowl possible. And the newbish foil punch pattern allows no air to enter the hookah due to it being covered by a dense freaking quicklight.

#4. Price. I cannot number the amount of times I've been ripped off by this owner. When he sells something, he takes advantage of people that know nothing about hookah. He'll try to sell you a hookah that's probably no more than $125 MSRP, says it retails for $300, then tries to sell it to you for $250 thinking it's a good deal. He also sold tobacco at $20 for only 100g. I was told by one of the fomer employees that that all he uses is Fumari.

Worst smoke ever! Learn from their mistakes. I can PM you the actual name of the lounge if interested.

[Guest DJ_HOSSEIX]

IMO it all depends on your location and target demographics.

I will give you my scenario since im in the process of opening a lounge in california.

My location is in a very metropolitan upscale neighborhood with a huge university near it (university of irvine) and a few junior colleges. The middle eastern population is very high and there are also many hookah lounges in nearby cities so i must do my best to make everything stand out. I have security at the door, the best service one will ever get, and great food (not that many to choice from but still very delightful).

As far as hookahs im stocking up on about 30-40 KM Triple Pears or Exoticas and about 10-15 Black MYA Obelisks all with medium phunnels and nammor hoses.

As far as tobacco we will serve Al Fakher, a few hit flavors from Layalina, a few hit flavors from Fantasia and Fumari, and Tangiers.

As far as charcoil it will be all natural wood charcoal that will be constantly burning out side and will be brought to each hookah every 10-20 minutes for a fresh batch.

Decor wise it will be traditional persian lounge with a very upscale modern look to it. Dim lights, indoor fire pits, Waterfalls, etc.

Music played will consists of not too loud persian, arabic, and western. But it will most likely depend on your intentions. Our intentions is for a very relaxing soothing hookah lounge that one can go and relax and enjoy a wonderful smoke. I recommend you keep your place upscale so you can avoid the wannabe punks/gangsters/trouble makers.

Drinks are all non alcoholic (alchohol is a huge head ache i would recommend you stay away from it) and we will be serving about 30 different kinds.

Pretty much whats mentioned above + construction costs + kitchen appliances + licenses needed + lease money will bring me down to getting a loan for $50,000 - $65,000.

Now the hookah business here in california does very well from those that know what they are doing. A bit of advice for you is before you open a lounge start spreading the word, so if this concept of yours will bloom.

Also if you want to know about my prices for what i serve they are pretty reasonable considering the fact that the customer who comes will be treated like royalty and a very upscale environment.

Hookah price will be: 12-17 bucks (17 bucks for a fruit head--apple/pear)
Discounts will be given for additional hookahs purchased per group

Also we will not be hiring employees for the first 6 months. You have a huge advantage though because those of us who are running this soon to open lounge are all students who are either pre-med or pre-law so while managing this place we have to study are ass off. My partner is the only one who has finished uni will a degree a business finance and business admin.

Another advice is get organized, do a business plan on power point it will make everything so much easier because it will all be organized.

Also, in all honesty, if you want to survive this business dont have a group of 6 ppl come in order 1 hookah ($10) and 3 waters ($4)...avoid these people. If this is the crowd you are going to get either raise your hookah price or have a 2 per person hookah limit or what ever else you seem fit.

Hope this was of any help

[Codename067]

Location is key no matter what anyone says.

AF Tobacco [Good selection to satisfy everyone]
Standard Egyptian bowls
Decent hoses
Good environment
Good music

Many factors are involved.


And...VOTE NO ON QUICK-LITES!

[erufiku]

Competent, hookah-savvy, polite staff... Quite a few times I've had the servers at various lounges bring me a hookah with a quicklite that wasn't ready. Worse yet, when asked to get this fixed (ie, a new head and well-lit coal), some of them would give you attitude. In these situations, I don't argue, I just walk out (without paying, of course) and never bother coming back.

Actually the only place I enjoy going on a regular basis doesn't serve real mo'assel at all (just the herbal stuff), but the ambiance and staff are great.

Also keep in mind that when posting on this forum, you're asking a very specific group of hookah smokers. Hence the myriad of answers about 'NO QLs!', 'carry tangiers', 'get phunnels', etc. In my opinion the casual hookah smoker won't give a rat's ass as long as it smokes nice and the flavor is OK. I would, however, suggest carrying washed and unwashed tobacco (in two distinct groups) and a few creative, tasty mixes (at a premium price). Maybe carry some seasonal flavors as well? Pumpkin Spice is the obvious one, but I'm sure you can mix something special for every occasion. I think it would also be worth doing a 'flavor of the month' (either a more exotic flavor or just a special mix); people like to try new things.

Oh. One more thing. I bet nobody will agree with me, but... Hot servers are a must The good thing about them is that you can pay crap wage, they'll still work hard and get a lot of money in tips. And keep people coming back (I think it's safe to say that most hookah smokers are young males).

[mattathayde]

even if you dont have hot servers, get ones that are chill people. there arent any hot servers at the local place i love (theres one chick that is kinda cute but shes one of those girls that if she tried she could be gorgeous but doesnt try at all) but all the guys are just really really chill and love what they do

it will be hard to do this starting up but give them an incentive to make people have the best time ever (like just a little extra cash if they had a great night or got a compliment. honestly i rarely tip very highly at a hookah bar (but the ones we go to either are not great or the servers dont have to do a whole lot (no food service)

-matt