Vet Having N00b Problems

[Giant Ninja Robot]

I have a quandry.

Got my KM and all the supplies, hoorah...But I canNOT get a good smoke for the life of me. I'm now using my KM Zahirah, exotica coals cut in 1/4s, a normal egyptian bowl, and mostly AF (old and new cut).

1 coal produces too little heat which shouldn't be since exoticas are hotter than 3ks and when i used those i had good sessions with 1-1.5

1.5-2 coals is too much heat and the stuff gets harsh instantly and regardless i can't smoke at the volume and pace i usually do and my smoke volume is very mediocre.

This has also happened with Fusion and AW.

The other major issue is that I'm getting very little flavor from everything. The first smoke I had was Fusion Cactus Pear and it was literally flavorless. The supposedly intense flavors have been less than intense, AF Mint and Watermelon included. I own a phunnel and used that with fusion the other night and with the right packing method, hole pattern, and coal quantity I still had mediocre clouds and not nearly as much flavor as should be.

WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING TO ME?!?!?! Please tips and tricks and troubleshooting.

I made my holes smaller per advice and that worked a bit to help keep the burning down in a session or 2 but did not fix the issue, toothpick tip holes, about 23-26 of them.

SERIOUSLY YOU ALL SAW HOW EXCITED I WAS TO GET MY NEW STUFF AND I'M LOSING HOPE FAST. AND PRETTY BUMMED TO BOOT

HELP? THANKS

[Giant Ninja Robot]

also I've tried packing more/less and that doesnt seem to be making any difference, I mean I even broke some instant japs in 1/2 and used those for less heat than the exoticas but the bowl (AF Strawberry) went harsh RIGHT AWAY

I'm close to tears and random violence. Edited November 4, 2008 by giant ninja robot

[mushrat]

go back to your old hookah and try it..see if you are getting the same results. Get back to us...

[Mirus]

Try using two fingers, and putting them only half on the bowl. I do that with my coco's when I'm using a smaller bowl, it makes it less intense.

[MrMoodz]

also I've tried packing more/less and that doesnt seem to be making any difference, I mean I even broke some instant japs in 1/2 and used those for less heat than the exoticas but the bowl (AF Strawberry) went harsh RIGHT AWAY

I'm close to tears and random violence.

GNR, I suggest checking out some of the hookah how to videos that are on the forum and on youtube. Don't worry man you will conquer this!

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Tried it Mirus but to no avail, it calms the harshness but volume is cut doen even more, I'm starting to think the thundercloud stuff is all a lie *tear*

Mush - It's in such disrepair that I wouldn't get reliable results from it to compare with. Else I would use it as a variable.

[modisess]

try doing everything slowly.. no seriously, when i had problems with my setup i did everything at a snail's pace to make sure i got everything right. seems to work half the time for me.

try placing the exoticas on their ends, to get smaller heat surface. and the mix the tobacco VERY thoroughly before packing.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

will do, I'll try anything at this point

[Hippo_Master]

AF can get burnt so quickly, it's almost amazing. With AF, you can be smoking, and moving the coals, and having a good session, and then it can suddenly change on you, and you. It starts getting slightly harsher, more tingle in the back of the throat. The flavor is still there, but not burnt. If you life up the foil, the top isn't burnt, just dry, and the bottom is very juicy. The second the tobacco on top dries, the AF starts to get tingly. When you have an old batch of AF, it is usually drier, and when you smoke it, it will be tingly and hard to inhale, and the smoke will be whispy.

I have not been able to find a remedy to this other then flipping the tobacco over in the bowl. The session goes til the end without problems but it is a pain. Af juices just get very thin when heated.

I would recommend mixing in a Nakhla Vanilla flavor, to keep it even, it has worked for me. Or you can flip it, which most likely needs to be done.

And AF does blow thunderclouds man! You will be a happy camper when you get it going.

Also, not to be rude, but maybe you could change the Exoticas out for a coconut coal? Edited November 4, 2008 by Hippo_Master

[cypherkk]

lol

I'm getting the same problem= KM.. exoticas, fusion, cactus pear. as well as some other flavors of course. Now it seems to me the exotica coals are the problem they bland everything out.

however, I cannot get cactus pear to smoke well on any of my five hookahs. It kinda tastes like sweet hay. Two different maybe more batches.

I'm still getting decent results out of rose vanilla and the new red rhino is ok. Orange is flavor full but not like the first time I tried it.

I've also seen less flavor with wild berry, special mix, though that more just indistinctly flavor full, and a dull flavor from raspberry papaya. Now the papaya I got a a kilo since HC was out of 250's and I've been told that kilos tend to be weaker flavored.

I've tried other coals, diamonte 33mm. goldens and Chinese easy lights as well as some naturals. Each have differnet benefits;. However most I noticed significant coal taste as well as flavor dropping off to nothing.

It seems that in general all components seem to be suffering from "over production"? maybe. they seem like they arent as high quality as before.

I used to use diamonte square quicklites pretty exclusively. But I cannot find them anymore, and last time I had them it seems like I had a major coal taste. I can get smoke but not flavor or flavor and not smoke. And none of it as good as 2 years ago. maybe I should bite the bullet and go back to fumari. But last time I had fumari the fusion blew it away.

I don't like starbuzz due to the chemical taste, and Nahklah has never smoked great, I got it ok about a year ago on some mixed fruit. But I bought a half dozen batches in 500 250 and 5 grams with no good results. I've had a problem with Af ever since the Ketchup event. layalinas flavors are good but weak and tend to give me a headache. The tangiers I got 2 years ago was fine, but as time went on it seems the batches lost flavor and were being stored in gladware, as is most of my flavors currently. in fact I've even though maybe that was a problem.

You know as I think on it. It all comes down to when smiley's batches went bad. After that it was all down hill. lol Edited November 4, 2008 by cypherkk

[Giant Ninja Robot]

So I'm doomed?

I don't understand it.

How can I be doing something wrong when I've tried so many variables and most everyone else gets great results with similar setups?

[whitey456789]

Try:

1) Packing your bowls looser...AF can be pretty sticky separate it a little more and maybe keep some stems for air flow. Blow thru the bottom of the bowl (if not using your phunnel). Also make sure your foil's really tight and try to rest the coals on the side of the bowl, if your coals are resting right on top of the shisha you might run into some problems.

2) 23-26 holes? That's kind of a lot to me...Keep using small holes maybe try a few less...Add more if needed while smoking

3) Probably the best advice...Use a wind screen...Try this with a little less heat and you'll be surprised how much heat it actually keeps in... remember your really just trying to bake the shisha ...I always use my windscreen and it makes a world of difference.

Start off with less of everything then as you are smoking adjust to liking. Good luck. Don't give up.

[Voski]

Post pics of how you pack your bowl. Did you try using different coals? I was having problems with exoticas and the CH instant lights. When I put other coals on the same bowl everything went back to normal.

[inino]

im gonna say less holes, maybe try natural coals. bulk style. i find they are best way to control heat. if your bowl burns out fast maybe try packing it tighter, if there is no flavor then that could be because the tobacco isnt good, maybe try other tobacco. as far as the hookah goes, i assume you have checked for leaks and put your water level to the right height so i dont know what could explain that.

[MWlax00]

"AF can get burnt so quickly, it's almost amazing. With AF, you can be smoking, and moving the coals, and having a good session, and then it can suddenly change on you, and you. It starts getting slightly harsher, more tingle in the back of the throat. The flavor is still there, but not burnt. If you life up the foil, the top isn't burnt, just dry, and the bottom is very juicy. The second the tobacco on top dries, the AF starts to get tingly. When you have an old batch of AF, it is usually drier, and when you smoke it, it will be tingly and hard to inhale, and the smoke will be whispy.

I have not been able to find a remedy to this other then flipping the tobacco over in the bowl. The session goes til the end without problems but it is a pain. Af juices just get very thin when heated. "

i got the same damn problem. i hate it. the top will be all crispy, and the bottom be perfect. and the tingly feeling sucks. and my lungs tell me no when trying to inhale and it become almost impossible to get a decent rip.
rotate the coals like no other, but same result everytime
tonight ill try to flip the tobacco when i get the tingly feeling, as much as i hate doin that. see if tht helps.

[Hippo_Master]

So I'm doomed?

I don't understand it.

How can I be doing something wrong when I've tried so many variables and most everyone else gets great results with similar setups?

Af Has changed up their cut substantially, and Exoticas have been getting more and more iffy in my experiences with them recently. I have successfully switched 3 of my friends to Coconaras and Al Awa'el Coconut coals and their problems almost completely disappear.

As stated, you may not have enough holes, and also since the weather is changing in a few places that may be affecting your tobacco.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

I just picked up 10 tubs of AF some are old cut some new all smell great and look fine.

The pipe is fine, no leaks, pulls like a dream in fact.

It's heating well, no burning, even with the couple that have smoked alright it's more lack of flavor and smoke. The watermelon session went the best but I had less flavor than I should have and less smoke, I went for like 2 hours and still had moist baccy.

I am starting to think it might be the bowl I'm using that was sent with the pipe, maybe it's too shallow? The old egyptian bowl I had broke so I can't compare.

[Hippo_Master]

I would blame weather and possibly the bowl. The bowl would just cause the juices to run down the stem, that would be the biggest problem other than..

A leak. Which is what i think you might have. No burning, but lack of density in smoke and taste sounds like you have air getting in and mixing with the smoke making it thinner. here's a test you can do: next time you smoke, if you have thick white clouds in the base but you are blowing thin flavor-lacking ones then you know it's in the hose port or hose. If you have 2 or 3 exoticas on AF and there are no clouds in the base, then you know it's a leak in the bowl, or too many large holes in the foil. I had a KM Chiller once that had a leak in the bottom part of the heart, where this lip came over the heart base and curved downward; it wasn't welded, and a lot of air was sucked in every hit.

You say it's not a leak but it sounds like one. if it's not, and you are sure, which i know you obviously know how to check, then I would say too big of holes in the foil, the bowl like you said, or the coals. Edited November 4, 2008 by Hippo_Master

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Well I checked it again for leaks and I may have found the problem...

The KM hose is not air tight where the mouthpiece fits into the handle. I took the mouthpiece off and pulled throught the handle without and it pulled airtight.

How can I get a tighter seal? I'm thinking electrical tape will be just fine. Is this a common issue?

So this may be the fix to my smoke volume issue, other than that I'll try some stuff to see if I can eliminate the premature harshness.

Thanks guys, I'm smoking while I watch the election coverage tonight so I'll update with any progress reports.

[inino]

ya electrical tape will work fine, pull the mouthpiece out and wrap a couple layers on the bottom then put the mouthpiece back into the handle. should make your seal tight. if the gap is wider than a couple layers worth of electrical tape then you can use some strips of wet cloth. to create the seal and just use your old hose for the time being.

[Hippo_Master]

ya electrical tape will work fine, pull the mouthpiece out and wrap a couple layers on the bottom then put the mouthpiece back into the handle. should make your seal tight. if the gap is wider than a couple layers worth of electrical tape then you can use some strips of wet cloth. to create the seal and just use your old hose for the time being.

Hell yeah, that's what i do with my KM hoses that are far too old to hold themselves up.

I also use a Hot glue gun on all my New KM hoses, just as a precaution, not that I don't trust the Egyptians...

[inino]

ya electrical tape will work fine, pull the mouthpiece out and wrap a couple layers on the bottom then put the mouthpiece back into the handle. should make your seal tight. if the gap is wider than a couple layers worth of electrical tape then you can use some strips of wet cloth. to create the seal and just use your old hose for the time being.

I also use a Hot glue gun on all my New KM hoses, just as a precaution, not that I don't trust the Egyptians...

oh who are we kidding, those hoses are made by 5 year old kids lol.

[barrenwizard]

Well I checked it again for leaks and I may have found the problem...

The KM hose is not air tight where the mouthpiece fits into the handle. I took the mouthpiece off and pulled throught the handle without and it pulled airtight.

How can I get a tighter seal? I'm thinking electrical tape will be just fine. Is this a common issue?

So this may be the fix to my smoke volume issue, other than that I'll try some stuff to see if I can eliminate the premature harshness.

Thanks guys, I'm smoking while I watch the election coverage tonight so I'll update with any progress reports.

About the mouth piece being not tight, yes that's a common issue. Don't know why, maybe cause its hand made that's why there's no consistency in their which in the end create different kinds of results for each buyers. Just use a piece of tissue or like you've mention an electrical tape. Just make sure it is still detacchable instead of making it stick to it, period.

One more thing about AF getting harsh, I've my AF Caffe Latte and it was harsh whenever I use a medium or big bowl, even with little coals and little holes and all that. But whenever I use a small bowl. That harshness is gone. My meaning is that certain flavours need to use smaller bowls to settle that problem. Its sort of like controlling its level of dosage. Don't worry, I always find a solution to problem not bitching around unless I needed to.

One more thing, get a plastic hose on standby. KM hose will rot within months. They have steel coils in them and are made from PVC Leather.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Well, the tape fixed the pull but not the harshness, I used blue painters tape as not to have any sticky residue later. Smoked last night and the second I took a hit of the AF Watermelon (which was fine last time I smoked it) it was harsh and very chemical. I'm really starting to think it might be the bowl, I'm going to try a different egyptian bowl as soon as I can and see if that's the ticket.

Switched to a medium phunnel full of Tangiers M Cherry and as my first solo Tangiers experience and it went alright, definately not as bad as it could have been but I need to work on it, will try again tonight.

[modisess]

Well, the tape fixed the pull but not the harshness, I used blue painters tape as not to have any sticky residue later. Smoked last night and the second I took a hit of the AF Watermelon (which was fine last time I smoked it) it was harsh and very chemical. I'm really starting to think it might be the bowl, I'm going to try a different egyptian bowl as soon as I can and see if that's the ticket.

Switched to a medium phunnel full of Tangiers M Cherry and as my first solo Tangiers experience and it went alright, definately not as bad as it could have been but I need to work on it, will try again tonight.

Yeah, i figured that would happen.

I think that you should've changed to a different egyptian bowl much more earlier. Well good luck.