Aluminum Foil Is Bad For Your Health

[mattathayde]

to lazy to read all the posts but this has come up a few times before and i have seen a lot about AT,

AT patients have higher levels of AL not as a cause of the disease but as a result, the AL molecules are too large to enter the passages in the brain they are found in the patients but the disease makes the passages open up more letting AL settle in the brain.

AL does not cause AT, cig smokers and coffee drinkers were found to be at lower risk

metal poising is bad, but you probably get more AL in your system from AL pans and utensils because you will get "rub off" on the oxidation that forms once AL touches oxygen, the coals do not get hot enough to vaporize aluminum

-matt

[Sonthert]

Hiya!

1. According to the Merck Index: Aluminum doesn't vaporize until very high temperatures, above its melting point. This is why it has no smell. Metals that have a smell are actually releasing small amounts of metallic vapor.

2. People in some countries are forced to use aluminum sulfate or alum for spot water purification. Their aluminum intake is 30-40 times that of the average American and their incidence of Alzheimer's is roughly the same as Americans.

3. The idea 'aluminum causes Alzheimer's Disease' began when researchers noticed increased levels of aluminum in the brains of Alzheimer's patients. It is more or less accepted the same thing that causes Alzheimer's allows the transport of Aluminum into the brain, where it accumulates (with other chemicals that might cause Alzheimer's) If you don't have Alzheimer's it isn't a risk. A similar thing happens with people that have a specific genetic trait that makes their liver not filter out saturated fat molecules, hence the saturated fats build up in their arteries causing heart attacks and strokes. If you don't have the genetic trait, its not an issue.

That analogy isn't really too good, because the prevailing theory, as I understand it, is the aluminum is just an odd indicator, its not actually causing the damage/degradation of the brain tissues its an indicator that something else IS there.

4. In fact, if metallic vapors are dangerous, steel screens are more of a risk since iron actually does vaporize and you are inhaling iron vapors (which IS toxic). The metallic dyes in ceramic bowls (especially lead-based slip glazes on heads made outside the U.S.) would also tend to give off metallic fumes including lead(Green/black), chromium (Yellow), barium(Green-blue), cobalt(Royal blue), etc.

It comes from the oddity that aluminum isn't biologically active in humans. That is our body's biology ignores it. Arsenic, lead, iron, copper etc. build up and become toxic because the body thinks its useful or necessary ("Oh, this is Iron! I'll store this away for later!"), Some metals (Arsenic, Lead) the body thinks are things it wants but really doesn't (and are confused by the valence electrons). Something has to have a chemical effect on the body for it to effect the body. Aluminum is highly reactive, but oxidizes rapidly in air to form aluminum oxide which is fairly inert. Gold is also inert, hence it isn't poisonous nor does it react with your body. Copper on the other hand is a nutrient, which is why your skin turns green under a brass piece of jewelry...its the reaction of copper with your skin.

Edit: Seconds on what MattAthayde said.

[mattathayde]

Hiya!

1. According to the Merck Index: Aluminum doesn't vaporize until very high temperatures, above its melting point. This is why it has no smell. Metals that have a smell are actually releasing small amounts of metallic vapor.

2. People in some countries are forced to use aluminum sulfate or alum for spot water purification. Their aluminum intake is 30-40 times that of the average American and their incidence of Alzheimer's is roughly the same as Americans.

3. The idea 'aluminum causes Alzheimer's Disease' began when researchers noticed increased levels of aluminum in the brains of Alzheimer's patients. It is more or less accepted the same thing that causes Alzheimer's allows the transport of Aluminum into the brain, where it accumulates (with other chemicals that might cause Alzheimer's) If you don't have Alzheimer's it isn't a risk. A similar thing happens with people that have a specific genetic trait that makes their liver not filter out saturated fat molecules, hence the saturated fats build up in their arteries causing heart attacks and strokes. If you don't have the genetic trait, its not an issue.

That analogy isn't really too good, because the prevailing theory, as I understand it, is the aluminum is just an odd indicator, its not actually causing the damage/degradation of the brain tissues its an indicator that something else IS there.

4. In fact, if metallic vapors are dangerous, steel screens are more of a risk since iron actually does vaporize and you are inhaling iron vapors (which IS toxic). The metallic dyes in ceramic bowls (especially lead-based slip glazes on heads made outside the U.S.) would also tend to give off metallic fumes including lead(Green/black), chromium (Yellow), barium(Green-blue), cobalt(Royal blue), etc.

It comes from the oddity that aluminum isn't biologically active in humans. That is our body's biology ignores it. Arsenic, lead, iron, copper etc. build up and become toxic because the body thinks its useful or necessary ("Oh, this is Iron! I'll store this away for later!"), Some metals (Arsenic, Lead) the body thinks are things it wants but really doesn't (and are confused by the valence electrons). Something has to have a chemical effect on the body for it to effect the body. Aluminum is highly reactive, but oxidizes rapidly in air to form aluminum oxide which is fairly inert. Gold is also inert, hence it isn't poisonous nor does it react with your body. Copper on the other hand is a nutrient, which is why your skin turns green under a brass piece of jewelry...its the reaction of copper with your skin.

Edit: Seconds on what MattAthayde said.

great explanation, only thing im going to say different on is the copper turning green thing, the green you get is a reaction and if you wear a ring for example that is copper long enough you will get an infection there, hence why you will never have a piece of jewelry that is worth a crap that has a copper or brass band in the ring. bare minimium you MUST sieve the ring with silver (sterling or fine) if not gold, palladium, platinum, etc... that was pounded into our head the 3rd week of jewelry class when we started on rings.

also other random facts about metals, silver in anti septic for the most part, gold doesnt really oxidize and you need one of the strongest chemicals know to the human race to dissolve/etch/oxidize it (aqua regina).

and AL is the most abundant metal on earth so being in your body probably is not a huge deal, that being said though silica which is also extremely abundant when broken down to dust and inhaled will never ever leave your lungs, ever (yet when we clean the glass blowing studio so many people dont wear respiratory protection).

im wondering though about the glazes, i understand what you are saying and i know those metals/chemicals are there but when they are fired they are taken well over the temps we use them bowls at so i dont see how we can be pulling out any chemicals or at least in any noticeable qualities

-matt

[barrenwizard]

4. In fact, if metallic vapors are dangerous, steel screens are more of a risk since iron actually does vaporize and you are inhaling iron vapors (which IS toxic). The metallic dyes in ceramic bowls (especially lead-based slip glazes on heads made outside the U.S.) would also tend to give off metallic fumes including lead(Green/black), chromium (Yellow), barium(Green-blue), cobalt(Royal blue), etc.

Remember guys, I've once awrn about the colouring on clays.

[BillySoCo7]

This is great. Thank you for all of the input. I'm in no position to state what the effects of different metals and such have on the human body and a person's health. I'm not a biologist and i'm not in the medical field. I am a chemist though and the basis of my research is going to be just to give the numbers. The cold hard facts. I'm going to leave the interpretation of those numbers up to people much more qualified than I. I think that it is important for the people who can make these statements to have facts though, facts that are not yet studied or made public knowledge. It is my sincere hope that the results I find are negative and that I can prove that hookah is the "safest" way to smoke tobacco. Thanks again for all of the input guys. It is enlightening to me and the entire hookah community. I'm glad people are giving some excellent responses to this post. I have shown this thread to the chair of the division of natural science and she is very impressed and is even more excited to see the interest in the study. Thanks guy.

[FactorE]

damn very interesting... kinda scary.

[Sonthert]

4. In fact, if metallic vapors are dangerous, steel screens are more of a risk since iron actually does vaporize and you are inhaling iron vapors (which IS toxic). The metallic dyes in ceramic bowls (especially lead-based slip glazes on heads made outside the U.S.) would also tend to give off metallic fumes including lead(Green/black), chromium (Yellow), barium(Green-blue), cobalt(Royal blue), etc.

Remember guys, I've once awrn about the colouring on clays.

First, lead isn't used in U.S. food-safe glazes, nor is chromium to my knowledge. They are probably used in foreign glazes, true. I've never seen chromium yellow except in Japanese Raku. Your assertion that vapors form "metallic fumes" are given off...what is that based on? Just because something contains a chemical that is hazardous doesn't make it hazardous. Water pipes are routinely made of copper and its poisonous, but people aren't dropping over dead. People have used lead-based crystal for years. Granted, alcohol left in crystal and heated will leach out lead over the course of several months, but its still not anywhere near toxic levels, barely even noticeable.

Whether its a Tangiers bowl or a middle-Eastern bowl, there's no smell given off by a new bowl other than that of the clay, or put differently all bowls smell the same, regardless of the color, so at normal temperatures, they don't have a vapor, so there's no interaction with the glaze and the outside. So, of course its heated, so that might make a change occur, but of standardized glaze (cobalt-based) of castille blue/black I use for the lounge, I can look at older bowls that have been used and compare them with the same bowls made at the same time and their color hasn't changed...at all. If these cobalt ions were being leached out, the color would fade...would it not? I've never observed anything of the kind. Even in citrus an mint head (that have the most chemical activity) Besides, small amounts of them aren't going to affect anything. How can you demonstrate that a sizable enough dose of metal can be removed in some fashion from the glaze?

Whether Tangiers Bowl, Chinese rip-off or Middle-Eastern traditional bowls, I think they're all probably safe enough.

[t_eissenberg]

Your proposed work is fascinating and I wish you luck -- we need more people working on this important topic.

I'm sure you have probably already read the work of Dr. Shihadeh in Lebanon starting with his 2003 paper:

Shihadeh, A. "Investigation of mainstream smoke aerosol of the argileh water pipe." Food and Chemical Toxicology 41 (2003) 143–152.

If so, you'll know that one of the most important parts of your work will be to produce smoke in a manner that replicates as much as possible the way real users smoke a waterpipe. To do otherwise (i.e., produce the smoke in some arbitrary manner that is unlike a real hookah user) would risk invalid results (e.g., the temperature of the coal/foil/tobacco is too high or too low, the puff volume is too great or too small). If you use pubmed and search for "Shihadeh" you can track down all of his work.

Good luck!

[SixPackSunday]

easy way to fix the aluminum problem

throw it in the microwave for about 30 seconds and your fine. kills all cancerous/dangerous chemicals that might be released

muahahahahah

[Tom1]

Kill inorganic material?

[mattathayde]

4. In fact, if metallic vapors are dangerous, steel screens are more of a risk since iron actually does vaporize and you are inhaling iron vapors (which IS toxic). The metallic dyes in ceramic bowls (especially lead-based slip glazes on heads made outside the U.S.) would also tend to give off metallic fumes including lead(Green/black), chromium (Yellow), barium(Green-blue), cobalt(Royal blue), etc.

Remember guys, I've once awrn about the colouring on clays.

First, lead isn't used in U.S. food-safe glazes, nor is chromium to my knowledge. They are probably used in foreign glazes, true. I've never seen chromium yellow except in Japanese Raku. Your assertion that vapors form "metallic fumes" are given off...what is that based on? Just because something contains a chemical that is hazardous doesn't make it hazardous. Water pipes are routinely made of copper and its poisonous, but people aren't dropping over dead. People have used lead-based crystal for years. Granted, alcohol left in crystal and heated will leach out lead over the course of several months, but its still not anywhere near toxic levels, barely even noticeable.

Whether its a Tangiers bowl or a middle-Eastern bowl, there's no smell given off by a new bowl other than that of the clay, or put differently all bowls smell the same, regardless of the color, so at normal temperatures, they don't have a vapor, so there's no interaction with the glaze and the outside. So, of course its heated, so that might make a change occur, but of standardized glaze (cobalt-based) of castille blue/black I use for the lounge, I can look at older bowls that have been used and compare them with the same bowls made at the same time and their color hasn't changed...at all. If these cobalt ions were being leached out, the color would fade...would it not? I've never observed anything of the kind. Even in citrus an mint head (that have the most chemical activity) Besides, small amounts of them aren't going to affect anything. How can you demonstrate that a sizable enough dose of metal can be removed in some fashion from the glaze?

Whether Tangiers Bowl, Chinese rip-off or Middle-Eastern traditional bowls, I think they're all probably safe enough.

my glass instructor talked about lead crystal the other day and was explaining about it (btw no american crystal has any lead in it any more). but the lead was picked up by the alcohol but for the most part lead only really had a huge affect on children whos brains are developing, its not great for older people but it doesnt give a big impact to them comparatively

-matt

[antouwan]

the best of luck, and hopefully your research will be accurate and turn out well (for our sake)

i'm curious to see the different amout of AL released (if any) between heavy duty foil, regular foil, and double regular foil...just something that has crossed my mind on more than one occaison.

[Sahara Smoke Co]

easy way to fix the aluminum problem

throw it in the microwave for about 30 seconds and your fine. kills all cancerous/dangerous chemicals that might be released

muahahahahah

I think I might've tried this once when I was about 5 years old.

[An1m]

This thread is fantastic. I'm eagerly awaiting these results.

[LondonShisha]

I just posted something up about how dangerous the aluminium tealight holders are if made into a phunnel mod. Would be very interested in this research.

[mattathayde]

I just posted something up about how dangerous the aluminium tealight holders are if made into a phunnel mod. Would be very interested in this research.

i think i remember your thing, or some one else that had the same issue. its not the AL its the wax coating and other junk that is coating the tea light cup

-matt

[Click]

1. According to the Merck Index: Aluminum doesn't vaporize until very high temperatures, above its melting point. This is why it has no smell. Metals that have a smell are actually releasing small amounts of metallic vapor.

Good enough for me.

[Tom1]

Just because it isn't vaporizing doesn't mean it isn't harmful. Hopefully it isn't though.

[Amosb72]

you should test how much the water actually filters it

[Sonthert]

If the metal doesn't vaporize...how is it going to get into the vapor of your smoke?

[Tom1]

I would think when they say vaporizing, they mean it would start to melt(?) and give off vapor. Who knows if trace amounts aren't given off when heated below the point it will vaporize. Edited November 28, 2008 by Tom16689

[Sonthert]

No, I think quite literally, it means the aluminum doesn't have a vapor pressure. It says it doesn't give off a vapor until very high temperatures, thats pretty unequivocal. The Merck would not make a statement that was inaccurate. It would mention trace amounts if trace amounts were given off.

[Tom1]

Can't disagree, I wouldn't know. Though I can say that the spectrometer will make it conclusive.

[newjacksm]

Any news on this, what happened to the original poster?

[EternalSoil]

ok, cause this got brought up again, i was thinking when i read it the first time...

I dont know much about metals and stuff so correct me if i'm wrong.
Aluminum is a solid, for it to become a vapor it needs to be melted hot enough to liquidize, then heated even more for it to become gaseous.
If this is correct, then if we were in any danger at all would we not also see little newly formed chunks of aluminum in the bottom of our bowls or in the bases?

Makes sense to me.

Oh, BTW, what is this thread about again?