HookahCaterpillar Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hello everyone, I plan on opening a hookah bar/cafe. I plan on having a few belly dancers and flame swallowers. A full bar and espresso machine. 100 seats. Full kitchen serving indian, american, middle eastern, mediteranean, asian, spanish, and fusion cuisines. Long comfortable couches, dining area, and a small stage. I was wondering if anyone could give me an estimate at how much it would cost to startup this kind of business venture? I would really appreciate any input I know there is alot of people on here that really know there stuff. Thanks as always, HC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushrat Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Well, Tangiers here says he does consulting work on this sort of thing...as a business, so you may want to see how much his services are. I'd say stay away from hookahbusiness.com and all their stuff, from the sounds of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imonlyapuppet Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I am also trying to open a hookah lounge, and I paid for that HookaBusiness e-book. It's not worth it. It's mostly a collection of random information about different business topics, hiring employees, etc. It's not in an easy to read format. There is however a long Business Plan of Nerfertiti, a hookah lounge that opened in Charleston. Tangiers, mind commenting in this thread about your consulting? I may be interested in your services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookahCaterpillar Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 I am very interested as well. I have mucho respect for tangiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Well, there are different types of operations. You have to consider principal, secondary and subsidiary revenue sources. You have to consider if there is enough market to hold your business up, what your turnover rate has to be. My operation is an experimental one to see if a new type of operation thats more friendly to franchising can work. Those books can only give you boiler-plate information. They can't give you anything really important as far as information. You need someone who has experience in these matters. There's no point in starting a lounge, getting most of the way through, opening and realizing you made a fundamental mistake when you can make sure everything works smoothly from the beginning. People act like a business plan is sooo helpful. We have the equivalent of a business plan on how to make hookahs, on this site, right? Then how come all these new people come along and say "I can't make it work." Because the background is irrelevant. Anybody can find out how to hire employees. I don't need to pay for a book to do it. Somebody read a book on how to make a million dollars "Write a book on how to make a million dollars, or at least alot of money."Caterpiller, as far as your plan goes, it needs revision, from what I've heard. Its a bona fide money loser. If you need a tax write-off, its perfect. Thats the kind of place you open if you are mobbed up. If you were in Chicago, New York, Maybe a few other really large cities, it could work, but it would be at least 18 months, roughly $200,000, maybe $250,000 to be safe and you would need to be pulling $60,000-$70,000 sales per month to be making money, thats uh, $2000 a day in revenues. It may be alot more depending on where you are talking about having it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookahCaterpillar Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 So minus the stage, where am i going wrong as in too extreme? Belly dancers and flame swallowers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I didn't take into account the restaurant part, all my calculations are crazy. Well, 100 people, for one, 50 people would be far workable, then you could open a second one for 50 people and it gives you more business durability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookahCaterpillar Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Thats a really good idea. Im brainwashed by the restaurant industry and in that case a 100 seat restaurant is considered small. A hookah bar 50 is huge. If i start with 50 seats then i could expand later on I was even thinking of franchising out one day but that would be in the distant future. I plan on working as a chef in the DC area for about 4-5 years, save up some money get a loan and go for it. My main concern is anti smoking laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Read into them. They haven;t gotten to the point of making smoking lounges illegal, quite the opposite, I believe if the anti-smoking paranoia continues, in 10 years, smoking lounges may be the only place to smoke outside of your own home (as long as you don't have kids). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookahCaterpillar Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 Nice i want to open up one in the DC area. Either DC or maryland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Maryland...I just like the name better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookahCaterpillar Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 Yeah and alot less competition in MD. Tang, would you reccomend renting or owning a building? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 That depends if you subscribe to modern accounting principles or traditional accounting principles. Modern accounting says you would rent a building. Probably rent a building from another company you own that owns the building so you get to write off the rent and the depreciation both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yacub Kopi Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Hello Everyone, Tangiers, Using Hookah Caterpillar's concept of a 50 seat hookah lounge/Cafe what kind of hookah should he aim for? Should he have mainly one hose hookahs, dual hose or more hookahs? Have enough for each table? What style of hookah is best for a lounge? Then maintance of these hookahs? How much supply of shisha and how many flavors? Do you have any suggestions? Your friend, Yacub Kopi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookahCaterpillar Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 I know its addressed towards tangiers but i can answer this. I am going to have regular old single hose egyptian hookah that I can buy wholesale at a pretty cheap cost. I dont want to bother with multiple hose hookahs. The hookahs will be bought from the menu. I will have at least 25 flavors to choose from. Tang, what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 If only I had $250, 000... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspianhookahcafe Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 25 flavors is too much. You have to worry about the tobacco drying out and people not buying your flavors. My advice is keep the flavors simples Like apple, lemon, grape, mint etc. Then if they want they could chose to mix them as well. I have seen from experience other hookah lounges lose profit from having that many flavors. Sometimes to much variety isnt the best bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookahCaterpillar Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 Thanks caspian your right sometimes i get away with myself. Keeping it simple is most of the time the best way to go. I have a question for you. Do you reccomend having pre packed bowls? One time i went to the back of the hookah bar i goto alot and they had about 10-15 bins with bowls already having foil and holes poked each bin was a different flavor. Or would you reccomend packing them to order? Also in terms of charcoal what is the best way to light coals should I have a stove in the back just for charcoals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uselessdreamer1 Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I would reccomend at first do them by hand. This will cause you not to waste any tobacco. Then when you find out your busy days, start pre packing bowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Prepacked bowls are terrible, the juice separates out if the tobacco has anykind of dampness to it whatsoever. As far as tobacco drying out, maasel whouldn't dry out. PG and glycerine have almost no vapor pressure and there shouldn;t be any water in the tobacco. If you keep it sealed well, it should be fine, moreover. Some of the most successful lounges here, near San Diego boast over 60 flavors/brands!!I hate multi-hose hookahs. I always advocate single hose hookahs. If you wanted to charge absurd amounts of money to rent one, I could see that. The customers you want are the ones that sit one-two per hookah. The large groups 5-10 per hookah are the ones you want to discourage in the first place. Don't give them an opportunity to nest at your lounge. Many lounges here even go to the extreme of limiting hookahs to three of four people per. The people who smoke hookah in large groups tend to me the most trouble and you're making less money off of them anyways. If it isn;t crowded, you can turn a blind eye to them. I also don't advocate putting a limit on the number of people per hookah. You can be a lot more subtle, not look like a jerk and still get the point across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzing Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 the place here has a limit of 2 people per hookah. and it's 7 dollars a bowl.. and they just plop a 40mm 3king disc right in the middle. it's really quite awful. i've been there a total of 3 times since they opened a year ago plus, it's really lame to have to use my hose's mouthpiece to move the coal around on the head to keep it from burning. you'd think they'd at least TRY and make it an enjoyable experience for people.what cracks me up is, there are a TON of people that go there, all of them wear black and thick rimmed glasses , and act all artsy. and pretend like they're getting the greatest smoke in the world. must be an inside joke with the owners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monil Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Our local place successfully implements a limit of 2 people per hookah also. It's £6 a bowl and they give you as much coal as you need until the stuff is burnt out. Shame the atmosphere is rubbish in that place. But yeah... also another thing I found this place did was have no limit at the beginning, build up the customerbase etc, then implement the limit. They seem to have lost little by doing it this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougBurns Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 The hookah bar around here doesn't have a person limit per se, but if you're smoking the hookah and not ordering food, they put a $3 charge on a bill for you. Now obviously the way to circumvent this is just to order a 99 cent order of fries, but this seems like it might be a viable option for a hookah bar/restaurant with a bit of tweaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookahCaterpillar Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 The hookah bar i goto gives you 2 coals, 1 already burning on your hookah and one sitting in your ash tray. They also give you a pair of tongs and tell you to use the old coal when it gets small to light the next charcoal which makes perfect sense. They have no limits on people per hookah but we always each get our own anyways and we always order food if not a real meal at least come cheese sticks, hommos and some fries. We also order tons of juice because the one i got has a juice bar. We tip well I think they like us and remember us everytime. I treat them well buy tipping and buying tobacco and lots of food and not being annoying because i know how to smoke shisha and they treat me very well when i come in. I dont plan on prepacking except for a few best selling flavors for one night as in prep like you would for a restaurant. Even then I would just pack 10 of the 5 most selling flavors. I think 20-25 flavors is more then enough. I plan on sticking to mostly nakhla and al waha anyways maybe some al amir once in awhile. Another place i goto will walk around with a tub full of hot coals passing them around. You could use 15 charcoals if you wanted to although i dont advise it I bought a hookah from them today and got a full size(27") and it included brushes, tobacco, a roll of coals, 2 bowls and a hose for 50 bux. I plan on being very close with my customers and regulars. If i get in some fumari, tangiers, etc.. ill hook em up. I also dont plan on being an a**hole either by limiting people or all that non-sense. I also wont try ripping people off by selling sh*tty hookahs and charging extra for tongs and a bowl then come home to find out you vase a huge crack in it knowing they were probably laughing about it after we left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookahCaterpillar Posted February 24, 2006 Author Share Posted February 24, 2006 I was thinking and after talking to caspian some more 250k is alot more then I need to spend. I could get away opening up a hookah bar with 40k-60k. Defenitely feel that its very possible for me to have it up and running in 5 years at the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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