Israel Appears To Have Had Enough

[gaia.plateau]

I just really feel that that land should not have been re-appropriated do to some crackpot religious contract(The Covenant making that land the promised land). The Jews held that land for a long time...I'm not gonna search dates, but one time in particular that sticks out in my head was during Roman times. Just because it is this God given land and they held it through temporal periods of time, does not mean that the land should be stolen from others and given back to them a millennium from the last holding time.
I'm gonna let gaia try to defuse my point, because I now know he looks from both sides and I think he might know where I am coming from.

I think the land should be given back to the dinosaurs. They were there first, after all. It's dinosaur land!

[SmokinMoose]

Good job Gaia looks like you have the strongest points here. Edited December 30, 2008 by SmokinMoose

[mushrat]

As long as the post is open, don't accuse me of closing soemthing because people disagree with me. When i close it, and why i close it can be discussed THEN.

Ya, i noticed your sources are either Arab or British. Those are REAL objective. And if it's so bad, where is all the aid from the other Arab countries? Palistinians being used as tools by other middle eastern countries, say it isn't so...

For the record, the is NO Palistine any more. Your use of that word to describe the land that is now the legal state of Israel belies you claims of Objectivism. Your arguements are clearly Pro-palistinian and you should be honest about that in your postings. I find the louder the claims of objectivism the more biased the claimant is.

Do you all really believe that a conquered people deserve their lands back you need to have a reality check. Life isn't fair in this world and no amount of closed eyed wishing or feel good sentiments is going to change that. This is reality. The reality of this situation is that the Palistinian people put themselves in the position they are in now and they expect the rest of the world to feel sorry for them. The world doesn't work that way. When you have nothing, you take what is offered to you and be glad. In some times and places the losers were just plain old wiped out so they wouldn't cause trouble later. Not suggesting this should be done, merely pointing out unpleasant facts. so Academics can sit in their Ivory Towers and examine the situation and make pronouncements, but that's not reality.

And you are STILL dodging one important question. WHO exactly is in charge of the palistinian territories and with whom do the Israeli's negotiate? Hamas? They still haven't recognised Israel's right to even exist. so if you don't recognise a government how are you going to negotiate with them? And there are so many different offshoots of hamas anyways who is going to put the boot to the more radical offshoots? Hamas themselves, unlikely. So, who do the Israeli's make peace WITH? Who ARE the palistinians and where is their Government?

As far as the conditions in Gaza, hmm..lesse..who elected a governmewnt the rest of the world brands terrorists (and remember, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. The Jews carried out some seriously nasty attacks on the British during their occupation of the territory under UN mandate so there is blood on everyone's hands) So, dispite warnign from the very countries that were trying to help the Palistinians, they vote in a terrorist based government, as is their right, but why are they then suprised when the aid stops coming. They were TOLD this is what would happen. So now the palistinians should live with their choices. They chose a government that carried out terrorist attacks, they elected a government that refuses to even recognise the country they are trying to get concessions out of, they elected a government that even other Arab nations couldn't support, and then they cry because things are tougher. What the hell did they expect? You choose a terrorist organization to represent you, you can't be upset when the rest of the world considers you terrorists. I Hamas really had the average people at heart they would try to fix the problem, not lob 300 rockets into Israel over the course of a week. That shows a real commitment to peace and reasonable discourse.

The sad thing is that the average palistinian and the average Israeli probably just want to go about their lives in peace and have a chance at prosperity. But the people the chose to represent them clearly have other ideas, and again, guess who's going to fin when a weaker foe goes up against a stronger one. Reality check again i'm afraid.

I visited Israel in 1978, 3 weeks before the camp david meetings. I was THERE with bombs going off in the Marketplaces, and frankly, even today i have no desire to visit again. I've seen a lot of the places being discussed. Seen the Kibbutzes that were regularly shelled. The boarders with her neighbors, have you Gaia? Or were your 4 years of study in an Ivory Tower?

Oh, and if the Jews just stood there and took it while the Nazi's did what they did, then i have little sympathy for them either. And I lost relatives in the Camps. Better to die free and fighting than to be lead to the slaughter like sheep. And I'm sure it being the 21st century made the Bosnians, serbs, and other victims of Genocide feel so much better that they were living in Modern times. As for not getting that bad yet, do you link the Israelis would really put that much effort into exterminating the Palistinians? Shit, All they have to do is wait, I'm sure they can do a good enough job on themselves without outside help.

When the Palistinians truely want peace, then they will act like it, Until then...

Oh, and if they are hungry, they shouldn't have destroyed the Hydroponics facility they did a few years ago when the Israelis left the region. But no, they'd rather rip it appart than have used it to help feed themselves. No sympathy.

If I offended you with my tone I appolgize. I don't appologizefor my messege however.

[mushrat]

Oh, say...while we're at it, why doesn't Canada let the French Canadian's have THEIR own country? I seem to recall a movement for that at some point.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/O...ce/reasonsf.htm
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/o...o_independence/
http://www.webspawner.com/users/maritimein...ence/index.html

How unfair to oppress these poor folks.

[gaia.plateau]

Oh, say...while we're at it, why doesn't Canada let the French Canadian's have THEIR own country? I seem to recall a movement for that at some point.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/O...ce/reasonsf.htm
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/o...o_independence/
http://www.webspawner.com/users/maritimein...ence/index.html

How unfair to oppress these poor folks.

By oppress, you mean allow them to hold their own referendum which resulted in them voting against separation? Do your research.

If I offended you with my tone I appolgize. I don't appologizefor my messege however.

No need to apologize, I don't get offended by anything. But you don't feel that I'm addressing your points and I feel that I am, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel like I was walking on eggshells arguing with an admin (which is why I would never be a mod even if you paid me more than I make DJing) - agree to disagree? Edited December 31, 2008 by mushrat

[mushrat]

so we agree to disagree. That works for me.

As for the french canadian thing, I was merely using it as an example. I know the referendum failed. What would the Canadian Government have done if the referendum had passed, or if a violent faction grew out of the movement? That was more my point.

And you can argue wth me..Im just as bull headed and opinionated as the next person, more so since I'm older than most of the members here. I won't smack soemone for disagreeing..believe me, there woudl be a lot fewer people here if that was the case. What i really dislike is people trying to make reality idealistic. It isn't and it never will be. We all have our biases and it's only honest to admit that, objectivity is impossible.


Plus i LOVE a good political "discussion" (read Brawl) keeps the juices flowing...

[gaia.plateau]

As for the french canadian thing, I was merely using it as an example. I know the referendum failed. What would the Canadian Government have done if the referendum had passed, or if a violent faction grew out of the movement? That was more my point.

I'm not particularly interested or learned in Canadian politics, but I'm pretty sure that they would have been allowed to leave (and a violent faction did grow out of the movement, called the Front de Liberation du Quebec, or FLQ). As much as capitalism and the idea of freedom are a part of the American identity, social justice is a part of the Canadian one; denying a minority group the right to leave would be akin to the US switching to a centralized communist government.

And you can argue wth me..Im just as bull headed and opinionated as the next person, more so since I'm older than most of the members here. I won't smack soemone for disagreeing..believe me, there woudl be a lot fewer people here if that was the case. What i really dislike is people trying to make reality idealistic. It isn't and it never will be. We all have our biases and it's only honest to admit that, objectivity is impossible.

I know, the problem is mine not yours. But I think people will still feel intimidated... Maybe you should make a super secret alias account that isn't obvious at all like JD

Oh, and I do agree that while Hamas has tried to broker many truces and peace agreements with Israel, and some have been successful, they are severely hurting their case by denying Israel's right to exist. But then again, they'd never have been elected if they didn't. On the other hand, the Israeli government should probably chock that up to the political reality of the region and look past it. Edited December 31, 2008 by gaia.plateau

[Bulldog_916]

Most people in Israel whether they are pro-Palestine or pro-Israel harbor ill will toward some faction in this matter. If there were a true peace movement, this wouldnt keep happening over and over again. A cease-fire is just that, a cease-fire. Doesnt mean the war is over. Iran isnt dumb enough to make threats against Israel even though they have. It's suicidal. All they are doing is lobbing threats and hoping something catches on.

Think about this: every time the violence ramps up, oil goes up in price. I think that forces on the side of OPEC are poking the violence with a fire stick because they know the oil production cuts arent having an effect. All that had to happen was a rocket attack and a scuffle (by this war's scale) and oil hopped 10%. They know what's going on. I think they are part of the problem. Oil is holding right now and slipping a little bit. A bit more violence and a few more rockets might help that hop up again. Iran makes a couple of off-hand comments. All this combined, oil hops another 10-15%. Coincidence? I dont believe in them.

There wont be true peace in Israel until the land is split or the Palestinians are given a piece of their country to call their own.

[mushrat]

I know, the problem is mine not yours. But I think people will still feel intimidated... Maybe you should make a super secret alias account that isn't obvious at all like JD

Oh i assure you.. I have several.

I think i've had my stimulation for a while.. I'll let the rest of you hash this out....

[Dirk Skene]

My old boss at my last resturant was in the short war where the Isralies were only about 15 miles outside Cairo. I do not remember the date. They could have gone all the way in, had they wanted. The seace-fire was called so the tank bitallion emptied the halftrack (amo carrier) into Cairo. The point is, piss the off & they will kill you. Leave them alone & they leave you alone. You can only push them so far. Edited December 31, 2008 by Dirk Skene

[TheScotsman]

If the First Nations people (and I refrain from the term "Indian" because of it's inaccuracy, not due to any PC bullshit) started firing rockets while they were being systematically exterminated by the US government (that's another term for "genocide" for all of you keeping score at home), it would be considered reasonable defensive action by any rational person.

I've never defended the Palestinian militants firing RPGs into Israeli territory; violence is always wrong. That said, as the famous Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh said in so many words during his campaign against the Vietnam war, violence of liberation is less wrong than violence of institution, and the former is too frequently necessary to resolve the latter.

So while I completely disagree with the violent resistance of Palestinians against Israeli aggression, and I would never say that either side is right, we need to be expressing far more criticism against the Israeli policies that routinely cut off food, water and fuel to Gaza, that continue to expand concentration camps for Palestinian political prisoners, which aggressively and actively continue war-making and war-mongering, and which have for decades been undertaking a massive propaganda campaign within their own borders and internationally, especially in the United States.

It's one thing for individual people acting of individual motive to launch RPGs against buildings and storm into schools to gun down innocent people. It's another thing entirely for an entire country to displace entire populations, imprison and exterminate innocent people, and keep hundreds of thousands of innocent people in constant fear of their life and the lives of their families.

As someone who has dedicated their life to the pursuit of peace with no real concern for human life itself, I tend to concentrate on the undeniable fact that Israel has done infinitely more to damage peace in the Middle East than any Arab country. That doesn't make them "the bad guy", and it doesn't make any other group "right", it's just the reality of the region.

If you can't tell the difference between an RPG, which is a short-range optically sighted weapon with a shaped charge warhead designed primarily for defeating armored cav targets and a kassam or Quds, which is a medium-range dumbfire intended to randomly kill/injure civilians with shrapnel, the rest of your statement is just inaccurate hot-air.


I like Mush's analogy, I may have to poach it!
The super-secret missile launching tee-pee is in interesting cartoon-bubble image

[diatonic]

And yet neither Germany nor Japan lost any land (that they didn't conquer during the war). Further the Israelis didn't even exist, let alone defeat Palestine- can you think of a historical precedent where land was carved out of a country to be given to someone that didn't fight?

Actually German lost some of its former eastern territories e.g. East Prussia, East Brandenburg etc. Japanese lost the Kuril Islands...

[Evildave]

Oh, say...while we're at it, why doesn't Canada let the French Canadian's have THEIR own country? I seem to recall a movement for that at some point.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/O...ce/reasonsf.htm
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/o...o_independence/
http://www.webspawner.com/users/maritimein...ence/index.html

How unfair to oppress these poor folks.

By oppress, you mean allow them to hold their own referendum which resulted in them voting against separation? Do your research.

Ok, you two are starting to talk about things that enter my territory, and frankly, it's difficult to explain the intrigacies of the 95 referendum unless you were there and living in the province of quebec. but to make a short explanation : it was 49.5 to 50.4 (aroundish) for the NO, and there was a TON of irregularities that have messed with the results. And Parizeau was right about the money : it took over ten years before things like the sponsorship scandal to prove that the separatists were simply not "paranoid sore loosers". But i'm not gonna press the issue because it's offtopic and the internet in general doesn't like French Canadians. Anyhow.


I generally do have a slight fondness for palestinians, especially since they remind me so much of french canadians on some aspect. However, i do believe it is all the fault of the wackjob at HAMAS this time, and they are reaping what they have planted. I mean, this is a band of thugs that on the day of their electoral victory, went into government offices and shot up the place, making everyone flee for their lives. Because THEY were in charge now.

And now that their ridiculous "governing" of the gaza strip has put everyone in a worse situation than they were, and they have continued to shoot rockets in sheer defiance of the israelis, the day they start finally getting shot at they scream like they're the victim? And asking for the Fatah to help them and join with them against the israeli oppressors?

There's words for people like that. Dumb fucking idiots.
I have no pity for such a bunch of asshats.


I just hope the civilians will flee and rebuild someplace else.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Holy fucking ground invasion....

Not looking so great as far as peace talks are concerned at this point guys.

And despite my Jewish heritage I'm not learned enough in these matters to contribute anything of value so I'll just say thanks for the interesting and informative reading.

[Yamin]

I am Iranian
I love everyone
Media everywhere is horrible
We have bombs
What is going on is unfortunate
Iranians are not Arab and so I do not Identify with either side, I hate both equally.
PEACEEE

[Rafflersauce]

Push any country long enough and you get a reaction. Hamas is to blame for breaking the cease-fire.

[inino]

Congrats, yo have managed to sidestep every major point I brought up with non-answers.

Minutes after the British left what was then palistine the arabs countries surrounding the 2 states that were created, invaded. The british did everythign in their power it make it easy for the Jews to be destroyed, read your history, not Wikipedia or Fox news. These arab neighbors came through the territory set aside by the UN for the Palestinians on the west bank to invade with the help of the palistinians, many of whome moved off the the boarders to await the promise of "the land of the jews" when Israel was destroyed. You can again look up these facts.

Then with the help of last minute aid from the US, Israel not only defeated their neighbors, but pushed them back and occupied the Palistinian territory to act as a buffer to assure that they would have time to react in case of another attack. I have BEEN to the Golan heights where Syrian? artilery was located on mountains overlookign the valleys below where they shelled kibbutzes every day for years. Israel needed sucurity on a scale that we don't understand since we arent surrounded by coutries that have openly sworn to destroy their country. Do the research.

If you don't think the whole situation with Hamas is more about Isreal's right to exist and less about a home territory, you need to open your eyes and quit watchign TV. The right of Israel to exist is the MAIN issue when it comes to Hamas and thier allies Hazbola. If you think otherwise you shouldn't be in this conversation.

Now, show me ONE, ONE relaible report that palestinians are dying from malnitrition or dehydration. Thats bullshit. Even while non-essentials are beign kept out, Israel still allows in food and other basic supplies. Not to say life is good but I do not believe people are starving.

And what exactly do nuclear weapons have to do with other arab countries letting palistinians into their contries? I do not recall anyone at any time saysing other countries can't take them in. Care to respond with something relivant?

Piles of rubble huh? go look at the pictures ont he news, these "camps" are full blown cities. Look around for pictures man. Don't merely blindly regurgitate what you have been told. Use your own eyes and mind.

Oh thats right, hundreds of palistinians weren't killed when Hamas took over Gaza...my mistake..they all starved to death. Give me a break.

We've never faught a war woth nothing to lose? Um, while i know you are young, what exactly do you think would have happened in WW2 if germany had taken ove rthe rest of europe, africa, etc..they would have stopped at the US and Canadian boarders and went, "ok, we got enough." your ignorance and oversimplified world view makes it very difficulat to carry on any sort of educated conversation.

I noticed you never answered the real question..who exactly do the Israelies negotiate a settlement WITH? SHow me a government that speaks for, if not represents, the Palistinian people who can enforce a peaceful settlement. So Israel shoudl give up the "final solution" interestign refrence, comparing Nazis with Israelies, and what do the Palestinians give up. It's hard to negotiate from a weaker position. That's the harsh realities of life.

Oh, and when i see israelies leadign palistinians into death capms loaded with ovens, then you are free to make that comparison, until then, i'd be very careful.

Other countries do take palestinians in, like jordan, syria, lebanon etc. they do not express their support for palestinians on a political level, but on a social level they agree with the palestinians, they cant voice their opinions becuase of fear from the US. For example, i was in Jordan for christmas and new years, and the government closed all of the hotels for new years parties because they knew that it would be wrong to party and have a good time while there was a war going on in gaza.

as for the pile of rubble comment, i have been to palestinian refugee camps, and pile of rubbish over states some of those places. little kids sell goods in the middle of the streets, people are under clothed in the winter, and money is very tight. some people just sleep in boxes or make a a tent like home with tarps it is extremely over populated. also they are dehydrated, they get their water delivered into tanks over their homes. they arent previliged to have pipes of water running all the time like us in America. if you dont have a home, its hard to find water, let alone drinkable water. if thats not "using my own eyes and mind" i dont know what is.

Also I wouldnt call the US aid last minute, they have supported Isreal fromt he beggining.


Think of it like this: someone takes over your home, and they let you occupy the bathroom. you would be pretty upset. only thing is that there is an entire US trained army blocking you in. What is Isreal is doing is not waging war, they are commiting terrorist acts, if you cant see that you are either a sheep to US media or are very foolish.

One must ask the question, what makes Isreal so special, why does the US have such interest in them? Use your mind.Think.

[judgeposer]

On a blog that I frequent, I encountered this post, which brought this paper to my attention. The paper

explores the many international legal issues raised by the Palestinian-Israeli tension along Gaza's borders. It first examines legal issues raised by Palestinian conduct and then turns to legal issues raised by Israeli conduct. As will be demonstrated, criticisms of Israeli behavior such as mentioned above lack any basis in international law. By contrast, criticisms that ought to be voiced about illegal Palestinian behavior are markedly rare.

This paper's publication predates the current conflict, but remains pertinent, if not even gains some significance, given the recent Israeli response to the rocket attacks from Gaza. While I know tensions having to do with this topic have risen, I thought I'd share this paper because it reminds us, through its careful chronicalling of events and its analyis of pertinent international law, that the recent Israeli actions were in response (and not simply offensive) to the rocket attacks from Gaza.

We should also distinguish between "jus ad bellum (the laws that govern the conditions under which one goes to war) and jus in bello (the laws that govern conduct during a war)," which this post reminds us exists. That distinction allows us to distinguish Israel's right of self defense from its conduct in exercising that right--which has obviously been crtiticized quite harshly.

From that second post, here's the $$ quote:

When the law is international law, and so there is no independent enforcement machinery for implementing the law, governments that are sensitive to public opinion will ignore the law and try to enforce public opinion. People around the world see the pictures of smashed houses and bleeding children and, rightly or wrongly, blame Israel. European governments worry about their restive Muslim populations. Israel has law on its side in this battle but that does not matter because it is losing the public relations war and, one way or another, Israel will find the law closing in on it because the law is what the other states say it is. In the long term, this could mean diplomatic isolation; Israel is dangerously dependent on the support of one fickle nation that is looking for a way to reestablish its international bona fides.

[momatik]

Hello everyone I wanted to post this article which is completely factual based.

In fact, it's the best article I've read so far on the subject.

I'd appreciate it if everyone read this before they formulate their opinion on the conflict.

By Adam Sheets

It is crucial that one has her/his facts straight about Israel's war on Gaza. What events brought about this dreadful situation? What needs to be done to make it stop? These questions will be answered in the content of this article, using concrete facts from a variety of news sources.

Let's first investigate the recent cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. The cease-fire began in June 2008. The terms were as follows:

1. Israel would drastically reduce its military blockade of Gaza.
2. Israel would halt all military incursions into Gaza.
3. Hamas would halt all rocket attacks into Israel.

From the outset of the cease-fire, Israel did little to ease its military blockade. As a result, Gazans continued to suffer from a lack of food, fuel, financial aid, electricity, clean water, medical supplies, and more. This has been, inarguably, an attack on innocent Palestinian civilians.

• Gaza faces a humanitarian "catastrophe" if Israel continues to prevent aid reaching the territory by blocking crossing points, the head of the main UN aid agency for the Palestinians said on Friday ... Israel had restricted goods into Gaza despite the truce, which calls on militants to halt rocket attacks in return for Israel easing its embargo on the territory ... Israel also held up deliveries of European Union-funded fuel for the power plant, which generates about a third of the electricity consumed by Gazans... Ailments associated with insufficient food were surfacing among the impoverished coastal strip's 1.5 million population, including growing malnutrition.
  --Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 21, 2008 [1]
• A former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Mary Robinson, has told the BBC she was taken aback by the "terrible" conditions in Gaza on a recent visit. Mrs Robinson said it was "almost unbelievable" that the world did not care about what she called "a shocking violation of so many human rights" ... Israel tightened a blockade on Gaza after Hamas took control there in 2007 ... "Their whole civilisation has been destroyed, I'm not exaggerating," said Mrs Robinson ...Israel says the blockade, under which it has allowed little more than basic humanitarian aid into Gaza, is needed to isolate the militant group and stop it and other militants from firing rockets into Israel. Israel came to a truce with Palestinian groups in June this year, but Mrs Robinson said this had had little effect on people's lives and "just brought a bitter taste in the mouth".
  --BBC News, Nov. 4, 2008 [2]
• The UN in the Gaza Strip says it will run out of food aid in two days unle Israel's blockade - which it describes as "shameful and unacceptable" - eases. The UN refugee agency UNWRA, which distributes food to half of Gaza's 1.5m people, called the blockade "a physical as well as a mental punishment". Israel is now allowing a limited amount of fuel acro the border, but it is still blocking food deliveries ... In a statement, UNWRA spokesman Christopher Gunne said food distribution operations would end on Thursday unle Israeli authorities allowed deliveries of wheat, luncheon meat, powdered milk and cooking oil without delay. "This is both a physical as well as a mental punishment of the population - of mothers and parents trying to feed their children - who are being forced to live hand to mouth," he said ... "It is a further illustration of the barbarity of this inhuman blockade." ... "It is also shameful and unacceptable that the largest humanitarian actor in Gaza is being forced into yet another cycle of crisis management," Mr Gunne added.
  --BBC News, Nov. 11, 2008 [3]
• International aid agencies, including the International Committee of the Red Cross, have said virtually no medical supplies were reaching Gaza. --Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 9, 2008 [14]
• The UN has no more food to distribute in the Gaza Strip, the head of relief efforts in the area has warned. John Ging said handouts for 750,000 Gazans would have to be suspended until Saturday at the earliest, and called Gaza's economic situation "a disaster". Israel earlier denied entry to a convoy carrying humanitarian supplies... The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) distributes emergency aid to about half of Gaza's 1.5m population. "We have run out [of food aid] this evening," said Mr Ging, UNRWA's senior official in Gaza. "Unle the crossing points open... we won't be able to get that food into Gaza," he told Reuters news agency ... Also on Thursday, Israel refused permission for a group of senior European diplomats to visit the coastal enclave. It has also prevented journalists, including those from the BBC, from entering the territory.
  --BBC News, Nov. 13, 2008 [4]
• Since June 2007, Israel has allowed little more than basic humanitarian aid to enter the Gaza Strip. Many there hoped that policy would change, five months ago, when Hamas and Israel agreed to a truce. But while there were some increases in the amount of aid allowed in, Israel's strict restrictions on the movement of goods and people into and out of Gaza largely remained... Serious fuel shortages have led to widespread power cuts acro Gaza City. That, in turn, has caused problems in pumping water to homes, and sewage to treatment plants. Israel is preventing many aid workers, and all journalists from entering Gaza too ... "I never thought we would see days like this," says Monther Shublak, head of Gaza's water authority. "The water system was severely stretched even before this crisis, but now, things are much worse. For the last four days, around 40% of people in Gaza City have had no acce to running water in their homes at all." ... "But we are putting all of our resources into sewage pumping. The health consequences of that system totally failing are too worrying to think about, but it could happen unle things change."
  --BBC News, Nov. 20, 2008 [5]
• Israel has refused to allow cash to enter Gaza in recent weeks to ratchet up pressure on the ruling Hamas militant group. With the supply of currency dwindling, banks have limited withdrawals over the past two weeks, and some have posted signs telling customers they cannot take out any more money ... The United Nations halted cash handouts to 98,000 of Gaza's poorest residents last week, and economists and bank officials warn that tens of thousands of civil servants won't be able to cash their paychecks next month ... "No society can operate without money, but that's the situation we are reaching in Gaza," said Gaza economist Omar Shaban ... Israel and Egypt have restricted movement through Gaza's border crossings since the Islamic militants of Hamas violently seized control of the coastal territory in June 2007. Since then, closures have been eased or tightened, depending on the security situation. But even in quiet times, when Gaza militants refrained from firing rockets at Israeli border towns, only limited shipments of food, medicine and commercial goods were allowed in... Shlomo Dror, an Israel Defense Ministry spokesman, questioned the seriousne of the currency shortage. "We are used to the Palestinians inventing things and we are looking into their claim," he said.
  --Washington Post, Nov. 24, 2008 [6]

Despite the intense blockade against Gazan civilians, the cease-fire held until November 4, 2008. On that date, the Israeli military made an incursion into Gaza and killed six Palestinians. The Israeli government sought to justify these actions, saying that they suspected these Palestinians of plotting to kidnap Israeli soldiers. Palestinian fighters responded to the attack by launching rockets into Israel. Thus began the unraveling of the cease-fire.

• At least six Hamas militants have been killed after Israel's first incursion into the Gaza Strip since June's truce. Israel said its troops had uncovered a tunnel along central Gaza's frontier which had been dug by militants intending to abduct Israeli soldiers. Clashes ensued when troops were sent to thwart the threat, Israel said. One militant died, Palestinian reports say. A subsequent Israeli air strike on Hamas positions in southern Gaza killed at least five fighters, medics said. An Israeli army spokeswoman said the air strike targeted militants who had fired mortars at Israeli forces... Tuesday evening's fighting broke out after Israeli tanks and a bulldozer moved 250m into the central part of the coastal enclave, backed by military aircraft, says the BBC's Aleem Maqbool in Ramallah. Residents of central Gaza's el-Bureij refugee camp said a missile fired from an unmanned Israeli drone flying over the area injured another three Hamas gunmen. A truce between the two sides had held since it was declared on 19 June. Israel said the raid was not a violation of the ceasefire, but rather a legitimate step to remove an immediate threat.
  --BBC News, Nov. 5, 2008 [7]
• An Israel Air Force air strike in the southern Gaza Strip killed at least five militants and wounded several others on Tuesday, Palestinians said. Earlier, Israel Defense Forces soldiers killed a Hamas gunman and wounded two others on Tuesday in the first armed clash in the Gaza Strip since a ceasefire was declared in the territory in June, Palestinian medics said ... An Egypt-brokered cease-fire agreement between Israel and the Gaza Strip was signed earlier this year, and went into effect on June 19. The IDF argued that the raid did not constitute a violation of the cease fire, but instead was a legitimate step to remove an immediate threat to Israel from Gaza, which is controlled by the Islamic militant group Hamas.
  --Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 5, 2008 [8]
• Two weeks ago, an already fragile humanitarian situation resulting from the mounting effects of months of shortages, saw a dramatic downturn. The fighting resumed, with an Israeli army incursion into Gaza and a retaliatory barrage of militant rocket fire.
  --BBC News, Nov. 20, 2008 [5]

As the cease-fire began to crumble, the violence from both sides intensified. Efforts to redeem the cease-fire ultimately failed.

• Palestinian armed groups in Gaza remain committed to a truce with Israel if Jerusalem reciprocates, Hamas's Gaza leader said on Friday, even as militants launched more attacks from the coastal territory ... "I have met with armed factions over the past two days and they stated their position clearly: they are committed to calm as long as (Israel) abides by it," said Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas's most senior representative in Gaza. --Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 21, 2008 [9]
• Hamas announced on Sunday that militant groups in Gaza have agreed to cease cross-border attacks if Israel opens crossings into the coastal territory, Ma'an news reported.
  --Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 24, 2008 [10]
• After expressing contradictory positions on Sunday, Hamas' leadership on Monday adopted a united stance: The cease-fire with Israel, which expires this Friday, will not be extended ... Hamas' spokesman in the Gaza Strip, Ayman Taha, said the movement had concluded that there was no point in extending the truce "as long as Israel isn't abiding by its terms" - though he added that talks on continuing the cease-fire were still taking place. Specifically, Taha said, Israel was supposed to have expanded the truce to the West Bank - something Hamas demanded but Israel in fact never promised - and opened the Gaza border crossings, and "this hasn't happened."
  --Haaretz Israel News, Dec. 16, 2008 [11]

Following the end of the cease-fire, Israel moved closer to an invasion of the territory. The Israeli government claimed that this was the only remaining option to eliminate rocket attacks from Gaza. However, as cited in the sources above, this was clearly not the case. Israel had failed to abide by the terms of the cease-fire. For the overwhelming majority of the six-month truce, Israel had refused to ease its military blockade of Gaza to any significant degree. In addition, it was the initial violator of the cease-fire when it sent tanks and aircraft into Gaza and killed six Palestinians on November 4, 2008. In fact, there is evidence that Israel was planning to strike Gaza even while the cease-fire was still in effect.

• Barak told the assembled lawmakers that the defense establishment spent months preparing for the Gaza operation.
  --Haaretz Israel News, Dec. 29, 2008 [16]

In the interest of peace, Hamas, and especially Fatah, have firmly established that they are willing to participate in negotiations that are based on internationally recognized borders and rights.

• On June 6, 2006, Haniyeh met Dr. Jerome Segal of the University of Maryland in the Gaza Strip ... At the end of the meeting, Haniyeh dictated a short message he asked Segal to transmit to President Bush ... In the second paragraph, Haniyeh laid out the political platform he maintains to this day. "We are so concerned about stability and security in the area that we don't mind having a Palestinian state in the 1967 borders and offering a truce for many years," he wrote ... Haniyeh called on Bush to launch a dialogue with the Hamas government. "We are not warmongers, we are peace makers and we call on the American government to have direct negotiations with the elected government," he wrote ... In his own letter, Segal emphasized that a state within the 1967 borders and a truce for many years could be considered Hamas' de facto recognition of Israel. He noted that in a separate meeting, Youssuf suggested that the Palestinian Authority and Israel might exchange ambassadors during that truce period. This was not the only covert message from Hamas to senior Bush administration officials. However, Washington did not reply to these messages and maintained its boycott of the Hamas government.
  --Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 14, 2008 [12]
• The Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, said on Saturday his government was willing to accept a Palestinian state alongside Israel within the 1967 borders ... Haniyeh told his guests Israel rejected his initiative ... He said the Hamas government had agreed to accept a Palestinian state that followed the 1967 borders and to offer Israel a long-term hudna, or truce, if Israel recognized the Palestinians' national rights... In response to a question about the international community's impression that there are two Palestinian states, Haniyeh said: "We don't have a state, neither in Gaza nor in the West Bank. Gaza is under siege and the West Bank is occupied. What we have in the Gaza Strip is not a state, but rather a regime of an elected government. A Palestinian state will not be created at this time except in the territories of 1967." ... "Our conflict is not with the Jews, our problem is with the occupation," Haniyeh said.
  --Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 9, 2008 [14]
• The Palestinian Authority has placed a full-page advert in Israel's Hebrew newspapers to promote an Arab peace plan first proposed in 2002. The Saudi-backed initiative offers Arab recognition of Israel in exchange for an end to Israel's occupation of land captured in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war. It also proposes what it calls a just solution for Palestinian refugees. The Israeli government has noted "positive aspects" in the plan but has not formally accepted it ... Peace Now, and Israeli campaign group, welcomed the publication of the adverts. "On behalf of a majority of Israeli citizens who support peace with the Palestinian people on the basis of a two state solution - we embrace the Arab Peace Initiative and urge both governments to endorse it and negotiate the final status agreement in its spirit," a statement from the group said ... The text reads: "Fifty-seven Arab and Muslim countries will establish diplomatic relations with Israel in exchange for a full peace accord and the end of the occupation."
  --BBC News, Nov. 20, 2008 [13]
• U.S. President-elect Barack Obama proclaimed himself "very impressed" with the Arab League's peace plan when he discussed it with President Shimon Peres during a brief visit to Israel four months ago, Peres said Tuesday ... The plan, originally proposed by King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia in 2002 and later adopted by the Arab League, states that Israel would receive full relations with the entire Arab world in exchange for a full withdrawal from all the territory it captured in 1967, including East Jerusalem, plus a solution to the refugee problem. The Bush Administration has said it views the plan positively, but its own road map peace plan and the understandings reached at last year's Annapolis summit have served as the basis of its diplomatic program.
  --Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 19, 2008 [15]

Since Israel began its strike on Gaza, 4 Israelis and 391 Palestinians have been killed [18]. The White House said that Israel will cease its attack when Hamas has agreed to a truce. Hamas said they are open to any cease-fire propositions. A cease-fire has been proposed, but Israel rejected this offer.

• "In order for the violence to stop, Hamas must stop firing rockets into Israel and agree to respect a sustainable and durable ceasefire," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said.
  --BBC News, Dec. 29, 2008 [17]
• Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has rejected international calls for a 48-hour truce in the Gaza Strip to allow in more humanitarian aid... The 48-hour ceasefire plan to allow more aid into Gaza, was proposed by French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner. Hamas spokesman Ayman Taha told AFP news agency that his group was open to any ceasefire propositions as long as they meant an end to the air strikes and a lifting of the Israeli blockade of Gaza.
  --BBC News, Dec. 31, 2008 [18]

The international community must continue to demand that a cease-fire be implemented. In order to be successful, any agreement must call for 1) an end to Israel's blockade of Gaza, 2) an end to the Israeli invasion of Gaza, and 3) an end to all rocket attacks into Israel.

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.p...=11&ar=2348

[Johnny_D]

The article posted above, in the first paragraph, forgot to mention
that Hamas never stopped the rockets into Israel. Ever.

Edit :- The BBC is horribly one-sided. Shockingly so I'm sorry to say.

I'm desperately trying to rack my brains to the border town where the rockets have never stopped hitting Israel land.

[momatik]

^Source?

Despite the intense blockade against Gazan civilians, the cease-fire held until November 4, 2008.

[Johnny_D]

^Source?

Despite the intense blockade against Gazan civilians, the cease-fire held until November 4, 2008.

BBC news, Just now, BBC1 News at 18:00 even admitted that :-
"The 6 month cease-fire saw the rocket attacks from Hamas drop....but not completely stop"

Cheers,

JD

[Yamin]

This is just pointless. Eventually Israel will not have the funding to continue, and will have to retreat. When that happens Hamas will be twice as strong as when they started through funding. Although I'm not saying it's not Hamas' fault, the other countries now have justification to support them.

[mitchell8621]

Someone else will eventually just pump more money into Israel to keep the rockets going, it always happens that way with war...It's a sad but true reality that until there is a winner or at least one side that admits defeat, the fights/rockets/struggles/headline snatching will continue.

[inino]

This is just pointless. Eventually Israel will not have the funding to continue, and will have to retreat.

Someone else will eventually just pump more money into Israel to keep the rockets going, it always happens that way with war...

The U.S. will give Isreal pretty much infinite amount of funding.