Are We Really Free?

[Will_Evo]

Here is a question for you all, in US at least.

In todays society are we truly "Free" as everyone would like to believe?

In my personal opinion we are not, everything we do is governed in one way or another with consequences or is strictly forbidden by someone else who does not agree. Smoking is just one example of a right we do not have. It varies from state to state, but some you cannot smoke in restaurants, hotels and some bars that serve food, and you cannot buy tobacco at certain locations because of a government bill saying so. In this sense I can't honestly say I am free, how can I be when a government bill is saying what I can and cannot do with my money and health where and when I want? if I was truly free I could buy tobacco anywhere and smoke it anywhere. Same goes with alcohol. Why are we told how and when and where we can drink alcohol? It is truly sad the illusion the US has put in front of all its citizens. And I know someone will say that I do have the choice to do any of the things I just mentioned, but there are repercussions..but why is the question? My health and my decision to drink alcohol at the beach shouldn't be any of the governments business. What does everyone else think?

-Evo

[Canon]

Yes we are free. true you cant smoke in some restaurants/bars. but then again you have to think about other people. why would i want others to smoke where i eat? it takes away from the atmosphere and endangers my smoke. not to mention the people that work at such bars and restaurants.

laws were put there for a reason. if your definition of free is doing whatever you want whenever you want then humanity has never been free. there have always been rules and consequences.

[Bye bye now have fun]

if you have ties to society and are not a sociopath then you arent free since you technically do what society tells you to

[NarghileNights]

wow. yes.

are you doing slave labor in a 3rd world country or getting blown up in israel? no.

you are sitting on your computer bitching about a government giving you a god damn "stimulus" check.

it's amazing that even when you are pretty well off the things we find to bitch about.

[Bye bye now have fun]

wow. yes.

are you doing slave labor in a 3rd world country or getting blown up in israel? no.

you are sitting on your computer bitching about a government giving you a god damn "stimulus" check.

it's amazing that even when you are pretty well off the things we find to bitch about.

first getting blown up has nothing to do with freedom. second of all i havent bitched about the stimulus yet, but since you said something its 100% bullshit. this last one has costed more than iraq and almost double that the entire viatnam war costed when including inflation. i miss capitalism and will mourn its death. also btw i havent seen jackshit form the stimulus and wont. all ill see is more national debt which was raised ~10% by it. so thanks for remindeind me about it.

[Will_Evo]

wow. yes.

are you doing slave labor in a 3rd world country or getting blown up in israel? no.

you are sitting on your computer bitching about a government giving you a god damn "stimulus" check.

it's amazing that even when you are pretty well off the things we find to bitch about.

Ok first off calm down, its just a topic for discussion, I am was not bashing anyone.

As for your reply, actually I am getting blown up, about 6 months ago to be exact here in Iraq. Not a fun thing, but it has nothing to do with freedom. As far as the stimulus plan, I won't see a bit of it, and once again has nothing to do with freedom.

As for the topic at hand, laws passed to keep me from having a cig(I dont even smoke cigs) while I eat at a restaurant is ridiculous, where do we draw the line on what the government can and cannot restrict. Something as small as the smoking ban, can be directly related to say a extreme such as telling you where you can and cannot eat. In both circumstances, we are told what we can and cannot do where as before, we were functioning perfectly fine, as a free American in said area. By the government having the power to keep me from smoking in certain places, it also gives them the power to do something like telling me where to eat. I dont know, I guess I just feel like being in the Army, I am fighting for our right to be free, but then everyday a new bill, a new law is passed further restricting things in my life. Seems like we aren't getting anywhere. Anyways what are everyone elses opinions on government, specifically in the US? Its just a friendly discussion no need to get mad.

-Evo Edited February 16, 2009 by Will_Evo

[ColibriDon]

I would have to say that we are not completely free but we are pretty damn close.

Smoking is just a regulation to make sure people who choose not to smoke because of the possible health risks don't have to be exposed to it. However, should there be places that allow for smokers to go where they can smoke, eat, and drink? Of course but anti-smoking maniacs have gotten their way in many states so we will have to play the waiting game for that.

That being said, we are probably the most free nation on earth. If we aren't, fine, but I think we are damn close.

A society free from rules and regulations is an anarchy. Anarchy cannot and will not work. Ever. In order for society to grow and prosper, regulations and rules must be put in place to ensure the greater good of society. Without these rules, society will collapse.

Now, do I think the unwarranted surveillance is necessary? No. Not at all. Is that a threat to our freedom? It may become one in the future but for now, today, we are very free.

Who knows if we will remain that way years from now but only time will tell.

[NIGHTS OF BAGHDAD]

i dont know why, but this topic and everything that has been said reminds me of the movie V for VENDETTA

[TheScotsman]

In the USA you are so far from free it's laughable to use the word.

[clumsygrace]

Of course we are not truly free. If we were, America would be a total Anarchy. Laws are necessary to maintain a well functioning society.


Thought this was kinda cool.

[megidolaon]

Well, what is the definition of freedom we're using here?

Freedom as in... I can do whatever I want, when I want, without regard to how it may impact others?

Freedom as in... I feel safe and secure where I live?

Freedom as in... I am not forced to do unpaid labor, the results of that labor being owned by someone else?

"Freedom" is a very vague term in all honesty. Or is this really about what "freedom" really is?

[Nutshell]

In America as long as you have no debt you are free.
Once you owe anyone anything you are no longer free.

[Bye bye now have fun]

even if it was total anarchy noone would walk down the center of the road with their dicks out. why? because society says its wrong. plus wed still be tied to jobs to make money to buy food. so thats a few more restrictions.

[ColibriDon]

even if it was total anarchy noone would walk down the center of the road with their dicks out. why? because society says its wrong. plus wed still be tied to jobs to make money to buy food. so thats a few more restrictions.

Wait...so is this in favor to anarchy or against it?

Because if it's for it then, yes, there would be restrictions...right until society collapsed.

[ebarnes02]

even if it was total anarchy noone would walk down the center of the road with their dicks out. why? because society says its wrong. plus wed still be tied to jobs to make money to buy food. so thats a few more restrictions.

Well, i'll start simple. People don't walk around with their dicks out for a number of reasons, the main one being climate. People, humans, whatever you want to call them have pretty much always worn 'clothes' (animal skins, loin cloths,etc). Because we are warm blooded creatures, good luck surviving the winter without clothes. We don't wear clothes because society tells us to. However, our society often tells us of the clothes that we should be wearing.

[mustang_steve]

Well, what is the definition of freedom we're using here?

Freedom as in... I can do whatever I want, when I want, without regard to how it may impact others?

Freedom as in... I feel safe and secure where I live?

Freedom as in... I am not forced to do unpaid labor, the results of that labor being owned by someone else?

"Freedom" is a very vague term in all honesty. Or is this really about what "freedom" really is?

The first freedom question....personal freedoms end where another's begins...like the saying "your right to swing your fist ends at my nose"

The second one...that's safety and security...the things we often exchange freedom for. You have to lose some liberties to get government protection...the key is not getting taken advantage of like we are now.

The third...that's Freedom alright.

Being able to choose your own destiny without artificial constraints is freedom. Anything less is the diet coke of freedom.

[erufiku]

The only entity that has absolute freedom is (not necessarily Christian) god. If (s)he exists. Otherwise you will always be bound by economic/social/natural circumstances. That being said, freedom is relative and the Western World is relatively free compared to the Third World. Which doesn't mean that there is no room left for improvement.

On a side note, I used to be a smoker and still think that the nationwide smoking ban in Canada is mostly a good thing. With the notable exception of outdoor patio smoking... this should be allowed.

[joytron]

the way i see it your free to do whatever you want as long as no one catches you.

[Dr. B]

We are free to do anything so long as a law does not exist saying we cannot (do). The government does not tell us what we can do, it tells us what we cannot. We are free to take an action until it is limited, at which point it becomes a matter of prudence. I'd say I'm pretty comfortable with the compromises I've made. I wish we had a more representative and efficient government though... The smoking ban really bugs me however because business owners were free to restrict smoking in their establishments before the ban - it's not like this nationwide smoking ban gave people the right to kick smokers out. What happened to the right to choose (as a consumer)?

On a side note: Whoever mentioned the stimulus plan being bullshit, I'd like to point out how it can benefit us. We are using fiscal and monetary policy right now for one purpose: to fight deflation. Fisher, an early American economist, concluded that in times like these a deflationary spiral would further entrench us in a dire situation because the devaluation of our currency would make our preexisting debts more expensive. His thesis proved correct in the 1930s. Ben Bernanke is an advocate of Fisher's ideology and thus the low interest rate environment/push for inflation we have today. If it were strictly internal debt, I wouldn't advocate it; but since China owns a huge percent of those mortgage-backed securities and derivative assets which got us into this mess, I say we screw them out of their money.

[clumsygrace]

We are free to do anything so long as a law does not exist saying we cannot (do). The government does not tell us what we can do, it tells us what we cannot. We are free to take an action until it is limited, at which point it becomes a matter of prudence.

Well put.

[jellywerker]

even if it was total anarchy noone would walk down the center of the road with their dicks out.

That's now on my bucket list.

[SilentBob]

If not being able to drink at the beach or smoke in a hotel is your biggest worry then maybe you should appreciate this country a little more. When you can walk down the street without worrying about being blown to pieces by a suicide bomber, you don't have to worry about being stoned to death for something you say, or as simple as get to go home every night...well I'd say you're pretty damn free.

I have buddies that have been serving since they graduated high school (including myslef) to make sure you keep your freedom. I spent 4.5 months at sea last year, sailing over 10,000 miles to train future members and protect this country. Next time you see someone in uniform take a second to thank him for your freedom, because he or she fights for the freedom you enjoy while they're family is 1,000s of miles away praying for their safety. Edited February 18, 2009 by SilentBob

[Will_Evo]

If not being able to drink at the beach or smoke in a hotel is your biggest worry then maybe you should appreciate this country a little more. When you can walk down the street without worrying about being blown to pieces by a suicide bomber, you don't have to worry about being stoned to death for something you say, or as simple as get to go home every night...well I'd say you're pretty damn free.

I have buddies that have been serving since they graduated high school (including myslef) to make sure you keep your freedom. I spent 4.5 months at sea last year, sailing over 10,000 miles to train future members and protect this country. Next time you see someone in uniform take a second to thank him for your freedom, because he or she fights for the freedom you enjoy while they're family is 1,000s of miles away praying for their safety.

Smoking in a hotel and drinking on the beach are not my biggest concern nor are they that big a deal, it was just an example of the type of thing being affected by a government capable of just about anything if they see fit. My point was just to spark conservation and let light on my point of view.

Also, thank you for serving, But what you fail to see, is I am in the Army finishing up my year long deployment to Iraq, so if anyone knows what its like in a country where people get blown up its me.

-Evo

[jellywerker]

Next time you see someone in uniform take a second to thank him for your freedom, because he or she fights for the freedom you enjoy while they're family is 1,000s of miles away praying for their safety.

Coming from a military family, I have a deep appreciation for people in the armed services. However, you are not fighting for my freedom in Iraq. I still don't know what's being fought for over there.

[Canon]

what about the war in Afghanistan? people tend to forget about that country...