Schip And What It Means To You

[SixPackSunday]

Alright, I havnt seen much on the forums about the SCHIP bill that has been passed by congress... if i missed it i'm sorry, but heres a rough breakdown of what it will mean for you.

State Children's Health Insurance Program or SCHIP is a bill that has been passed and signed and will take affect, seriously, on April 1st. as a rough breakdown you can expect a roughly 50% increase on tobacco products sold in the U.S.

yup, thats right 50%. that means nakhla that you normally pay 5 for will now be 7.50, and AF that we pay 10 for will now be 15.

thats a big hit for us and not one to take lightly. it is going to put a big dent in a lot of people orders and you can expect websites/stores to start carrying lower stock quantities due to it.

Cigar smokes will probably have the best of this, as they have a cap of .4026 cents per cigar on the tax. However, the cigar tobacco industry is the only portion of the tobacco industry that I have seen any cap at all.

the people who will take the biggest hit will be Roll Your Own Cigarrete smokes, who are actually looking at a 60% increase in their tobaccos, driving a lot of small business's that cater to these people out of business.

the saddest thing about this bill is that even people who support it admit that it probably wont do what its supposed to do. This bill needs roughly another 30 million smokers nationwide to be able to pull the amount of money it needs to from this tax.

the thing that burns me up about this is the number of piece of shit parents out there who will still have a new car/plasma tv/sattalite/eat out all the time/etc but wont pay up the money for their kids to have god damned health insurance. WE are being punished because THEY wont prioritize their kids over their own greedy self centered lives.

As an avid cigar/pipe/hookah smoker this i am really expecting this bill to hit me hard in the pocket book come april as I plan on spending the same amount on my tobacco passion as i always have, i'll just be getting less money for it.

so what am i doing? the same thing several of my good friends are. I suggest you do it too if you can. I'm hoarding as much tobacco as i can! not joking. what $100 bill will get you today will only get you $68 or worth of shisha come april first.

in the last two months I've stocked up as much as possible to try and beat this tax. i've snagged"
15 boxes worth of cigars
50g or so worth of pipe tobacco (usually comes in $15 2g tins)
currently working on a very large shisha order.

I'm still looking for something in the bill mentioning a cap on hookah tobacco or something along those lines, but so far nothing, and i really dont expect to find one.

i'll keep you all updated as best as i can as this gets closer. in the meantime, cross your fingers.

*sorry for my shitty grammar/punctation*

[soldier92]

Crap, gonna have to blow my whole tax return on shisha now, but at least it'll save money in the long run.

[jellywerker]

I feel more free by the moment.

[K1024]

this is fucking ridiculous.

[chromecarz00]

Any chance of getting this reverseD? I call a movement....

[SixPackSunday]

not getting reversed friend. nobody in congress is going to vote down a bill 'for the children' it would look bad should they decide to run for the big office on day.

vic just said in chat that companies are only expecting a 1-2 dollar increase per 250, which still blows, but isnt as bad as 50 percent.

i guess we'll see april first for sure

STOCK UP!

[Zyram]

actually the tax on RYO cigs is much more than 60%, it's going from a few dollars to like 28 dollars. It is totally insane. I suppose it's all "for the children" though so we're expected to bend over and take it. So many stupid laws with the "for your children" lube eh? I foresee alot of tobacco purchases going under the table, and we all know where that leads.

Guess who is left out of the new tax though? Pre-packaged cigs. Guess they have a nice lobby group. I've read about the bill, and I thought about starting a topic on here so I'm glad someone did, and thanks for the reminder to stock up, I've only got a month so I better get my taxes done (haha) and use what I get back to stock up.

-Z

[indian_villager]

This is redonkulous.....This is already an expensive passtime for me. I am broke and probably will not be able to stock up either.....where are those lobbyists when we need them?

[SixPackSunday]

yea, RYO is going to get raped, which is probably the point, those guy are getting out way cheaper than buying camels and marbloro's...

oh well....

at least now when some bitch tells me my cigar is disgusting i can accuse her of not loving the children! hahahaha

[Stuie]

Suck....better stock up now!

[Voski]

My income stays the same but everything gets more expensive.

[Victim026]

From what I've heard from local shops and vendors price increases will not be nearly this drastic. Expect a $1 increase for a 250g tub on average, some places may take advantage and raise prices $2 per 250g tub, otherwise prices on shisha won't be going up much.

[AKammenzind]

From what I've heard from local shops and vendors price increases will not be nearly this drastic. Expect a $1 increase for a 250g tub on average, some places may take advantage and raise prices $2 per 250g tub, otherwise prices on shisha won't be going up much.

Still, government fucks are stealing our money... and they get a greater hunger for it every year it seems.

[Kapten Kanel]

Massive fail of epic proportions, will crap like this never end? As if the stupid shit going on here in sweden wasnt enough, im fucking gonna move out into the forest...

[newjacksm]

Once the taxes start rolling in, we'll need a tick to set off some riots.

I really see bad baddddddd things coming out of this administration.

[SuburbanSmoker]

this is just one more thing to add to the list of "no, we can't"

[Victim026]

this is just one more thing to add to the list of "no, we can't"

I wouldn't necessarily blame Obama for this, although he is the one that signed it in and Bush did veto it twice, Congress has been pushing this with STRONG support for at least 10 years and it was really only a matter of time before SChip went into effect.

[SuburbanSmoker]

im not directly blaming obama for it, just adds to the distaste i have for the current administration.

[redjako]

Crap, gonna have to blow my whole tax return on shisha now, but at least it'll save money in the long run.

Well, Shisha isn't CURRENTLY under the tobacco tax correct? So who knows.


Utah exampe: Utah doesn't classify Shi-sha as Tobacco, so it doesn't get taxed, BUT, last month a smoking ban went into effect on ALL clubs / bars. And shisha bars got hit, they can't use tobacco based shisha...wtf.

[redjako]

Once the taxes start rolling in, we'll need a tick to set off some riots.

I really see bad baddddddd things coming out of this administration.

Nah, he just appointed a cost-cutting maniac for the Defense Purchaser..or whatever.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politi...ard_expert.html

And he's going after tax havens.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/24/o...n_n_169576.html


He's doing hit or miss I'd say..

[tinyj316]

Title VII: Revenue Provisions - (Sec. 701) Amends the Internal Revenue Code to increase excise tax rates on cigars, cigarettes, cigarette papers and tubes, smokeless tobacco, pipe tobacco, and roll-your-own tobacco. Imposes a tax on floor stocks of tobacco products (other than certain cigars and cigarette papers and tubes), reduced by a $500 tax credit. Requires payment of such floor stock taxes on or before August 1, 2009. Extends the floor stock tax to articles located in a foreign trade zone on any tax increase date.

(Sec. 702) Applies administrative tax law provisions relating to permits, inventories, reporting, and recordkeeping to manufacturers and importers of processed tobacco (i.e., any tobacco other than tobacco products).

Expands the authority of the Secretary of the Treasury to deny, suspend, or revoke permits for manufacturing or importing tobacco products.

Revises the definition of "roll-your-own tobacco" to include cigars or cigar wrappers.

Amends the Tariff Act of 1930 to apply limitation periods for assessment of tax under the Internal Revenue Code to alcohol and tobacco excise taxes.

Imposes an immediate excise tax on any tobacco products, cigarette paper, or tubes produced in the United States at any place other than the premises of a lawful manufacturer of such products.

(Sec. 703) Directs the Secretary of the Treasury to study and report to Congress on: (1) the magnitude of tobacco smuggling in the United States; and (2) any recommendations for the most effective steps to reduce it.

(Sec. 704) Amends the Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 to increase by 1% the amount of any required installment of corporate estimated tax otherwise due in July, August, or September 2013.

That's the important part of it, methinks...


Here's the text of the bill, as signed into law: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111...p/~c111O0dKeB::

[tinyj316]

Here's the numbers part of it...

SEC. 701. INCREASE IN EXCISE TAX RATE ON TOBACCO PRODUCTS.

(a) Cigars- Section 5701(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended--

(1) by striking `$1.828 cents per thousand ($1.594 cents per thousand on cigars removed during 2000 or 2001)' in paragraph (1) and inserting `$50.33 per thousand',

(2) by striking `20.719 percent (18.063 percent on cigars removed during 2000 or 2001)' in paragraph (2) and inserting `52.75 percent', and

(3) by striking `$48.75 per thousand ($42.50 per thousand on cigars removed during 2000 or 2001)' in paragraph (2) and inserting `40.26 cents per cigar'.

( Cigarettes- Section 5701( of such Code is amended--

(1) by striking `$19.50 per thousand ($17 per thousand on cigarettes removed during 2000 or 2001)' in paragraph (1) and inserting `$50.33 per thousand', and

(2) by striking `$40.95 per thousand ($35.70 per thousand on cigarettes removed during 2000 or 2001)' in paragraph (2) and inserting `$105.69 per thousand'.

© Cigarette Papers- Section 5701© of such Code is amended by striking `1.22 cents (1.06 cents on cigarette papers removed during 2000 or 2001)' and inserting `3.15 cents'.

(d) Cigarette Tubes- Section 5701(d) of such Code is amended by striking `2.44 cents (2.13 cents on cigarette tubes removed during 2000 or 2001)' and inserting `6.30 cents'.

(e) Smokeless Tobacco- Section 5701(e) of such Code is amended--

(1) by striking `58.5 cents (51 cents on snuff removed during 2000 or 2001)' in paragraph (1) and inserting `$1.51', and

(2) by striking `19.5 cents (17 cents on chewing tobacco removed during 2000 or 2001)' in paragraph (2) and inserting `50.33 cents'.

(f) Pipe Tobacco- Section 5701(f) of such Code is amended by striking `$1.0969 cents (95.67 cents on pipe tobacco removed during 2000 or 2001)' and inserting `$2.8311 cents'.

(g) Roll-Your-Own Tobacco- Section 5701(g) of such Code is amended by striking `$1.0969 cents (95.67 cents on roll-your-own tobacco removed during 2000 or 2001)' and inserting `$24.78'.

(h) Floor Stocks Taxes-

(1) IMPOSITION OF TAX- On tobacco products (other than cigars described in section 5701(a)(2) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986) and cigarette papers and tubes manufactured in or imported into the United States which are removed before April 1, 2009, and held on such date for sale by any person, there is hereby imposed a tax in an amount equal to the excess of--

(A) the tax which would be imposed under section 5701 of such Code on the article if the article had been removed on such date, over

( the prior tax (if any) imposed under section 5701 of such Code on such article.

(2) CREDIT AGAINST TAX- Each person shall be allowed as a credit against the taxes imposed by paragraph (1) an amount equal to $500. Such credit shall not exceed the amount of taxes imposed by paragraph (1) on April 1, 2009, for which such person is liable.

(3) LIABILITY FOR TAX AND METHOD OF PAYMENT-

(A) LIABILITY FOR TAX- A person holding tobacco products, cigarette papers, or cigarette tubes on April 1, 2009, to which any tax imposed by paragraph (1) applies shall be liable for such tax.

( METHOD OF PAYMENT- The tax imposed by paragraph (1) shall be paid in such manner as the Secretary shall prescribe by regulations.

© TIME FOR PAYMENT- The tax imposed by paragraph (1) shall be paid on or before August 1, 2009.

(4) ARTICLES IN FOREIGN TRADE ZONES- Notwithstanding the Act of June 18, 1934 (commonly known as the Foreign Trade Zone Act, 48 Stat. 998, 19 U.S.C. 81a et seq.) or any other provision of law, any article which is located in a foreign trade zone on April 1, 2009, shall be subject to the tax imposed by paragraph (1) if--

(A) internal revenue taxes have been determined, or customs duties liquidated, with respect to such article before such date pursuant to a request made under the 1st proviso of section 3(a) of such Act, or

( such article is held on such date under the supervision of an officer of the United States Customs and Border Protection of the Department of Homeland Security pursuant to the 2d proviso of such section 3(a).

(5) DEFINITIONS- For purposes of this subsection--

(A) IN GENERAL- Any term used in this subsection which is also used in section 5702 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 shall have the same meaning as such term has in such section.

( SECRETARY- The term `Secretary' means the Secretary of the Treasury or the Secretary's delegate.

(6) CONTROLLED GROUPS- Rules similar to the rules of section 5061(e)(3) of such Code shall apply for purposes of this subsection.

(7) OTHER LAWS APPLICABLE- All provisions of law, including penalties, applicable with respect to the taxes imposed by section 5701 of such Code shall, insofar as applicable and not inconsistent with the provisions of this subsection, apply to the floor stocks taxes imposed by paragraph (1), to the same extent as if such taxes were imposed by such section 5701. The Secretary may treat any person who bore the ultimate burden of the tax imposed by paragraph (1) as the person to whom a credit or refund under such provisions may be allowed or made.

(i) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall apply to articles removed (as defined in section 5702(j) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986) after March 31, 2009.

[ebarnes02]

Even as a smoker, i've been saying that the government SHOULD raise the tobacco tax for a long time.

[wpw36]

well this freaking sucks but what are they classifying hookah tobacco as? technically woulndn't it be under pipe tobacco

[inino]

im not sure exactly what hookah tobacco goes under, i know its a different tax class than cigs, cigars, etc. In the past hookah tobacco hasnt been affected by tobacco tax increases, but i guess it could.

also i mean i hate to say this, but the hookah tobacco industry is partly an underground industry in which some wholesalers find ways to scam around their taxes so maybe we wont see a huge increase if it happens.