Prepare To Get Screwed In Va If You Run Or Frequent A Hookah Lounge

[Bulldog_916]

Honestly, as long as they dont ban it outright I could care less if California bans hookah bars, which they wont. Liberals, while they are all for looking out for people's health, they are even more concerned about people's cultural freedoms. I think California has been pretty progressive about this stuff. Long Beach county just made smoking hookah inside restaurants legal where before it wasnt. So, who knows how this will all go.

[BrotherBuford]

Gov. Kaine has stated that he won't alter the bill because allowing hookah bars goes against his whole philosophy of eliminating smoking entirely. He's signing this horrible bill this afternoon.

[An1m]

Gov. Kaine has stated that he won't alter the bill because allowing hookah bars goes against his whole philosophy of eliminating smoking entirely. He's signing this horrible bill this afternoon.

Imbecile. Immediate recall election.

[delSol_si]

Gov. Kaine has stated that he won't alter the bill because allowing hookah bars goes against his whole philosophy of eliminating smoking entirely. He's signing this horrible bill this afternoon.

What an f-ing douche. I personally think smoking bans are great. I think the whole entire United States should be smoke free. BUT, like others have stated, I think they should make exceptions for businesses that have the sole purpose of providing a place to smoke. I think bars and pubs should still be smoke free tho. I absolutely hate smoking (except hookah) and it irritates me when people smoke around me, that is unless I choose to be in a designated smoking area.

Just to emphasize on what has been previously stated, I wonder if this Kaine a-hole has noticed how crappy the economy is?? And has he noticed that not letting hookah lounges stay open is just going to hurt the towns economy even worse? Hell, around here, we are having more and more businesses go out of business every day. Steve & Barry's, Goodies, several furniture shops, bakeries, several little shops in our mall, and more. Plus Circuit City nationwide (though ours went out of business several years back). I think Kaine's smoking ban is great and I wish Missouri would go smoke free, but just make a few exceptions.

[Sonthert]

if you are a liberal every aspect of your life is their business

Sorry, if others can't classify the neocons/republicans as conservatives, then you can't classify the modern democratic party as liberal. Its nice to be able to twist definitions to make an unfounded political argument. Your generalization of liberals is shortsighted at best. I don't care what people do, as long as they stay out of my personal business. I mind my own business, too. I as a liberal, for one, don't agree with your statement regarding interference in other people's lives, and I know a great many "liberals" that feel the same way. Who protects sticks up for the Bill of Rights? That is, who preserves the cultural heritage of the United States? The nice liberal people at the ACLU. I will agree Eisenhower was a damn sight better than Nixon or Reagan, but the economic track record for the conservatives spanning back 100 years is lousy...the liberals have to come in and clean it up...or what conservative group were you talking about. The roots of the Great Depression all lie in traditional American conservatism, Coolidge, Theodore Roosevelt, Taft and Hoover. 20 Years of conservatives, 8 years of liberals in the middle (although Wilson WAS a moron)...boom! Great Depression. Doesn't sound like 1980-2008 at all. lol. If it comes down to people having jobs because of liberals or massive recessions from conservatives, I'll take the jobs.

[BrotherBuford]

Gov. Kaine has stated that he won't alter the bill because allowing hookah bars goes against his whole philosophy of eliminating smoking entirely. He's signing this horrible bill this afternoon.

Imbecile. Immediate recall election.

Can't do that in VA. It's his last year anyway, and in VA governors can only serve one term. I'll be glad to be rid of him for more reason than just the smoking ban he's been pushing since he got in. He's been a real thorn in the side for the past few years trying to get good pro-gun stuff passed as well (he just loves his VETO), but at least the anti-gun bills he championed never got any traction in the legislature so he never got a chance to do jack with that.

[ahwahoo2006]

I read over the bill yesterday and luckily there is a provision in there that exempts "private clubs" from this ban. Therefore, all hookah bars have to do to get around it is charge a $1/year "membership fee" and give their members a card with their name on key chain tag or something.

[Boricua]

I read over the bill yesterday and luckily there is a provision in there that exempts "private clubs" from this ban. Therefore, all hookah bars have to do to get around it is charge a $1/year "membership fee" and give their members a card with their name on key chain tag or something.

I hope hookah bars take advantage of this

[BrotherBuford]

There very well may be an exploitable loophole in there, but the fact is that this passed at all. I understand why, though - it's just politics. Kaine has been pushing this thing for years, so the issue is front and center. Last year a much weaker one passed that would have allowed restaurants to go smoking only if they chose (having no non-smoking section at all if they posted a sign stating that), but he altered it so it banned smoking in restaurants entirely. The legislature turned down his changes and the bill died - if the Gov. alters a bill it's an all or nothing gambit. This year, however, is an election year. Every seat in the House is up for grabs this November. Simply put, there is a majority in VA that wanted a smoking ban according to polls, and the Speaker of the House made a deal with Kaine to get one through so the Repubs didn't seem like obstructionists and it couldn't be used against them in November. The Repubs are losing ground in VA and this was a calculated political move to try and hold on to seats in the more urban areas.

It's sad, but that's how politics works.

[Sonthert]

They'll find another loophole. In California, they classify the smoking ban under protecting employees and workplace safety. Private club or not. Posh!

[BrotherBuford]

I just checked the bill text and there's more to being a "private club" than charging a membership fee.

"Private club" means an organization, whether incorporated or not, that (i) is the owner, lessee, or occupant of a building or portion thereof used exclusively for club purposes, including club or member sponsored events; (ii) is operated solely for recreational, fraternal, social, patriotic, political, benevolent, or athletic purposes, and only sells alcoholic beverages incidental to its operation; (iii) has established bylaws, a constitution, or both that govern its activities; and (iv) the affairs and management of which are conducted by a board of directors, executive committee, or similar body chosen by the members at an annual meeting.

[BrotherBuford]

There's more to it, though, that gets confusing. If something is both a restaurant AND a tobacco shop, I'm not sure how that works.

A. Effective December 1, 2009, smoking shall be prohibited and no person shall smoke in any restaurant in the Commonwealth or in any restroom within such restaurant, except that smoking may be permitted in: (list of things that wouldn't apply to a hookah lounge, except one that produces its own tobacco products)

"Restaurant" means any place where food is prepared for service to the public on or off the premises, or any place where food is served. Examples of such places include but are not limited to lunchrooms, short order places, cafeterias, coffee shops, cafes, taverns, delicatessens, dining accommodations of public or private clubs, kitchen facilities of hospitals and nursing homes, dining accommodations of public and private schools and colleges, and kitchen areas of local correctional facilities subject to standards adopted under § 53.1-68. "Restaurant" shall not include (i) places where packaged or canned foods are manufactured and then distributed to grocery stores or other similar food retailers for sale to the public, (ii) mobile points of service to the general public that are outdoors, or (iii) mobile points of service where such service and consumption occur in a private residence or in any location that is not a public place. "Restaurant" shall include any bar or lounge area that is part of such restaurant.

BUT:

Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to:
...
2. Regulate smoking in retail tobacco stores, tobacco warehouses, or tobacco manufacturing facilities.

[Boricua]

So conceivably if hookah loungers sell tobacco tobacco at retail they could be exempt?

[BrotherBuford]

That may be an exception, but there is no definition of "retail tobacco store" in the Code of Virginia. Because of that there's no way to be sure without something like a court case or an Attorney General opinion to lay down some rules. It probably would be defined as a store that makes 51% of its gross receipts from the sale of packaged tobacco products or something like that, but there's no telling. It doesn't help that tobacco products are only defined in the VA Code as far as I can tell is based on IRS definitions, and I have no idea if shisha falls under the "pipe tobacco" definition.

"Retail dealer" means every person who sells or offers for sale any tobacco product to consumers.

"Tobacco product" or "tobacco products" means (i) "cigar" as defined in § 5702 (a) of the Internal Revenue Code, and as such section may be amended; (ii) "smokeless tobacco" as defined in § 5702 (m) of the Internal Revenue Code, and as such section may be amended; or (iii) "pipe tobacco" as defined in § 5702 (n) of the Internal Revenue Code, and as such section may be amended.

Note that "retail dealer" isn't the text in the Clean Air Act. It says "retail tobacco store". It's splitting hairs, but law has to be pretty precise to apply.

[BrotherBuford]

Can't edit my post, so:

US Code Title 26,5702:

(n) Pipe tobacco
The term “pipe tobacco” means any tobacco which, because of its appearance, type, packaging, or labeling, is suitable for use and likely to be offered to, or purchased by, consumers as tobacco to be smoked in a pipe.

By that definition shisha may qualify, as it is smoked in a pipe, albeit a water pipe.

[ahwahoo2006]

It complicated. Depending on your reading, one could argue hookahs dont meet the definition of "smoking"

From the bill:
"Smoke" or "smoking" means the carrying or holding of any lighted pipe, cigar, or cigarette of any kind, or any other lighted smoking equipment, or the lighting, inhaling, or exhaling of smoke from a pipe, cigar, or cigarette of any kind.

Ammendment 7 also adds

"7. Any restaurant during any time in which minors are not permitted entry into the restaurant."

to the list of places where smoking may be permitted.

/IANAL

[BrotherBuford]

7. Any restaurant during any time in which minors are not permitted entry into the restaurant. was struck from the bill before passage.

I think or the lighting, inhaling, or exhaling of smoke from a pipe pretty much covers a hookah.

[BrotherBuford]

For the legally inclined, the full text of the bill as passed is here.

One thing to note, though - the only penalty is a $25 fine.