Political Corectness Makes Me Gag

[HellCat]

I understand that we should be careful of what we say, so as to not say it in a bad way, but when facts are facts, why do so many people skimp around it??

I wrote a paper for class about city planning and a section was on crime and shootings. I wrote the true fact that the majority of murders (in the target city) is black on black.

When I got the paper back, I saw that the teacher crossed out the black on black fact. I went to her after class about this. She gave me the you-should-know-better look, and told me (I will quote word for word) "This could really offend some people and we need to be sensitive to their feelings, so you have to be careful of what certain words or phrases you write, at all times."

Theres also a lot more situations than this, and to get my point across I'll tell you another one: I asked the secretary at an office building where the janitor was (a man spilled his coffee on the floor in another room), she gave me a look and said, "you mean the maintenence technician?"

Ok, am I missing something here? Whats so technical about mopping floors and cleaning windows? lol They do a good job, but what???

[Capt. Morgan]

Really can't stand political correctness. Guess I just don't understand why a.) so many people seem like they are out looking for things to get offended by and b.) why I should give a rat's ass if said people get offended by something I say.

[erufiku]

I´m with you on this one. Actually had a similar argument with one of my profs. It was a media studies class and we were basically concentrating on uncovering techniques that allowed for bias. So my prof says "the fact that they stare 'black male' when talking about this crime is racist" which in my opinion is bullshit cause they'll go ahead and write 'white', 'hispanic', or 'asian' depending on the case, so we either stop stating the ethnic background for everyone or stop bitching about racism where it doesn't exist.

Also in Canada it's pretty much racist to say "black", and the correct term is "African American". I never understood this actually: so why does everyone say "white" instead of "Caucasian"? Using the same logic this practice is racist.

What's ironic is that this political correctness aims to protect minorities but deprives them of any chance of change. If there is no problem (eg., high crime rates among the low-income black population) then nobody will bother finding a solution. So, in a paradoxical fashion, this actually hurts the minorities more than it helps them.

On your janitor anecdote, one time I saw an ad for something like "Senior Manager for the Maintenance of Horizontal and Vertical Surfaces"... i.e., janitor. Then again giving someone a fancy title is cheaper than offering a decent wage for their job.

[antouwan]

on the janitor deal, i was watching a documentary called "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price" and Wal-Mart calls stockers "inventory specialists"

[HellCat]

Really can't stand political correctness. Guess I just don't understand why a.) so many people seem like they are out looking for things to get offended by and b.) why I should give a rat's ass if said people get offended by something I say.

Sooo true. Everyone wants to be the victim. They get benefits for being victims. Meanwhile handicapped people (wheelchair boaund, and paralyzed, blind, deaf etc. NOT the asshole faking back problems to get off work) are fucked over all the time. Go look at the handicapped parking spaces at stores and watch an overweight person park there because they are too fucking lazy to walk a few extra feet that will do them good. Or the people with out handicaps park there anyways. Its sad to see a paralyzed person have to roll his fucking wheelchair form the back of the lot.

I´m with you on this one. Actually had a similar argument with one of my profs. It was a media studies class and we were basically concentrating on uncovering techniques that allowed for bias. So my prof says "the fact that they stare 'black male' when talking about this crime is racist" which in my opinion is bullshit cause they'll go ahead and write 'white', 'hispanic', or 'asian' depending on the case, so we either stop stating the ethnic background for everyone or stop bitching about racism where it doesn't exist.

Also in Canada it's pretty much racist to say "black", and the correct term is "African American". I never understood this actually: so why does everyone say "white" instead of "Caucasian"? Using the same logic this practice is racist.

What's ironic is that this political correctness aims to protect minorities but deprives them of any chance of change. If there is no problem (eg., high crime rates among the low-income black population) then nobody will bother finding a solution. So, in a paradoxical fashion, this actually hurts the minorities more than it helps them.

On your janitor anecdote, one time I saw an ad for something like "Senior Manager for the Maintenance of Horizontal and Vertical Surfaces"... i.e., janitor. Then again giving someone a fancy title is cheaper than offering a decent wage for their job.

OMG rofl!!! WOW what a title! But yeah, I didnt see the fact that it allows them to get paid a lower wage roflmao!!!

And you are correct. The PC bullshit just makes everything worse.

[HellCat]

on the janitor deal, i was watching a documentary called "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price" and Wal-Mart calls stockers "inventory specialists"

LOL! Specialists? Ahahahahaa!!

[Bye bye now have fun]

i have you topped, my school told me that my group couldnt do our risk analysis on p2p music downloading because it is "encouraging crime", "might show that crime does pay" and the subject matter is "illegal activities". yet another group is doing a security analysis of the building and network which includes unlocked doors, unguarded entrances and networks security. some how that doesnt support breaking in and other illegal activities. on top of that another group is doing a project on the drug trade across us/mexico boarders specifically the drug that comes from south america and scarface loves. in addition they are doing stuff on the beheading and other drug cartel activities.

[Christofonopolis]

Did you hear about the whole special olympics thing and the word "retard"? Apparently March 31st is national awareness on those who are mentally challenged, and they want to change "retard" to the "R-word". I don't get PC at all...

[Bye bye now have fun]

apparently on some show some where they said calling short people midgets is like calling blacks the "nword" (only saying nword because im not sure if i can here). so i was wondering what if you call a black short person a nworder midget, which do they take more offense to?

[Boricua]

apparently on some show some where they said calling short people midgets is like calling blacks the "nword" (only saying nword because im not sure if i can here). so i was wondering what if you call a black short person a nworder midget, which do they take more offense to?

Why would you even use that term at all - regardless of it's permitted or not?

[Boricua]

I´m with you on this one. Actually had a similar argument with one of my profs. It was a media studies class and we were basically concentrating on uncovering techniques that allowed for bias. So my prof says "the fact that they stare 'black male' when talking about this crime is racist" which in my opinion is bullshit cause they'll go ahead and write 'white', 'hispanic', or 'asian' depending on the case, so we either stop stating the ethnic background for everyone or stop bitching about racism where it doesn't exist.

Well what I think you're not addressing is that most media outlets DO NOT specify when they're white criminals. They'll just say "a 25yr old male" as if white is normal, and everything else needs to be pointed out. Also, it creates the perception that only minorities are committing crimes.

[Boricua]

My 2 cents:

A lot of people here don't see why it matters because we come from privileged groups.

It sounds to me that most people here are white, and don't see why it is such a big deal sometimes. You forget that just a few decades ago minorities didn't even have the right to vote, etc. This wasn't centuries ago, this was just a generation ago.

Also, it's always difficult when coming from a privileged position to see these things. I come from privilege too, I am male/christian/able bodied/educated/straight etc - all those things are privilege in our societies because we make up the majority. So for us it's always the 'normal' thing while other minorities (gender,race, religion, etc) always have it more difficult.

[SuburbanSmoker]

Ive actually had a very extensive education on racism, sexism and political correctness over the last two years. The biggest question that always seemed to come up whenever we would debate was as followed:

---> Even though slavery was 400 years ago, why do people still regard its existence as a great crime, so much to the effect that many black and white people live with a strong bias of the other purely on this basis which in turn leads to much larger racial separation in the social stratification system in american society today.

NOTE: i do not condone slavery what-so ever.

please feel free to address the topic for still today i am interested in a greater understanding of the habitual bias that race and ethnicity impose upon people.

O and if anyone was curious, we can link most racist, sexist, and ethnocentric ideologies in the united states today to the puritans beliefs of society way back in the day. most of these beliefs have been passed down from generation to generation of americans. there is actually a very informative test you can take online that will tell you which races/ethnicities/sex/genders you are biased towards. ill have to go digg it up.

[K1024]

Also in Canada it's pretty much racist to say "black", and the correct term is "African American". I never understood this actually: so why does everyone say "white" instead of "Caucasian"? Using the same logic this practice is racist.

this actually is really frustrating to me. when i was in elementary school we took standardized tests, and i filled in the bubble for Caucasian, and there was a choice for black. a few years later and i was filling in bubbles for white, and there was a bubble for African American. its come to my realization that Caucasian elementary kids will never learn that that is the proper term for their race, and will always be known as white...

2 steps forward and one step back i guess...

[Bye bye now have fun]

apparently on some show some where they said calling short people midgets is like calling blacks the "nword" (only saying nword because im not sure if i can here). so i was wondering what if you call a black short person a nworder midget, which do they take more offense to?

Why would you even use that term at all - regardless of it's permitted or not?

because im not going to get banned for something that stupid. there is no way that midget can be anywere as close to the offenseve level. also i dont see why people can stop being offended by it. apparently cracker is suppose to be offensve to white people and i never got it even after it was explained to me. pretty much the only way to piss me off is slander me

[Boricua]

apparently on some show some where they said calling short people midgets is like calling blacks the "nword" (only saying nword because im not sure if i can here). so i was wondering what if you call a black short person a nworder midget, which do they take more offense to?

Why would you even use that term at all - regardless of it's permitted or not?

because im not going to get banned for something that stupid. there is no way that midget can be anywere as close to the offenseve level. also i dont see why people can stop being offended by it. apparently cracker is suppose to be offensve to white people and i never got it even after it was explained to me. pretty much the only way to piss me off is slander me

Cracker and The N word will never NEVER be even closely related in terms of offensiveness. Why? Because no one has ever been lynched, denied housing, denied loans, killed, raped, etc while being called a Cracker. And also, even though you might be called that by some ignorant fool - guess who still has the most power in this society?

Go read Tim Wise's "White Like Me"

[Boricua]

---> Even though slavery was 400 years ago, why do people still regard its existence as a great crime, so much to the effect that many black and white people live with a strong bias of the other purely on this basis which in turn leads to much larger racial separation in the social stratification system in american society today.

Why is it such a big deal? Look who still has the most economic power in this country. Guess why? Yup, it goes all the way back to slavery, then general disenfranchisement. How do you expect a people to automatically achieve equality and parity when only 5 decades ago they didn't even have the right to vote?


The state of most black communities today are linked to slavery and to the hundreds of years of abuse and oppression, simple as that.

I think some people might better understand it this way: If you're born black it's like you 'owe' someone $500,000 in terms of all the adversity you have to fight against (crappy schools due to lower property values in ethnic neighborhoods, lack of connections, covert racism in hiring, etc etc) while when you're born white (especially a white male) is like you came to this world with $500,000 in the bank in terms of all the advantages you get in this society.


Not saying it's your fault for being white, but you look at white activists working on race and they say they do what they do because it's everyone's responsibility to change a society that is still plagued by heavy overt and covert racism.

[judgeposer]

Ive actually had a very extensive education on racism, sexism and political correctness over the last two years. The biggest question that always seemed to come up whenever we would debate was as followed:

---> Even though slavery was 400 years ago, why do people still regard its existence as a great crime, so much to the effect that many black and white people live with a strong bias of the other purely on this basis which in turn leads to much larger racial separation in the social stratification system in american society today.

NOTE: i do not condone slavery what-so ever.

please feel free to address the topic for still today i am interested in a greater understanding of the habitual bias that race and ethnicity impose upon people.

O and if anyone was curious, we can link most racist, sexist, and ethnocentric ideologies in the united states today to the puritans beliefs of society way back in the day. most of these beliefs have been passed down from generation to generation of americans. there is actually a very informative test you can take online that will tell you which races/ethnicities/sex/genders you are biased towards. ill have to go digg it up.

I think most, and reasonably so, believe that slavery was a "great crime" because it was. Of course, during the time of the Anglo-American slave trade, it enjoyed great legal protection and societal acceptance. Nonetheless, moral hindsight offers us the perspective that the trade was criminal, most certainly violative of the most basic of human rights. While I'm sure there's some connection to the habitual biases you seek to understand, American society is vastly more pluralistic now, after the immigration of numerous other groups with slave or indentured servant ancestry, which we must now account for.

Also in Canada it's pretty much racist to say "black", and the correct term is "African American". I never understood this actually: so why does everyone say "white" instead of "Caucasian"? Using the same logic this practice is racist.

this actually is really frustrating to me. when i was in elementary school we took standardized tests, and i filled in the bubble for Caucasian, and there was a choice for black. a few years later and i was filling in bubbles for white, and there was a bubble for African American. its come to my realization that Caucasian elementary kids will never learn that that is the proper term for their race, and will always be known as white...

2 steps forward and one step back i guess...

Imagine how children of mixed races feel? My family has had mixed race marriages for as far back as we can trace; given that many of our ancestors were either slaves or indentured servants, that's not all that far back. Records beyond slavery or indentured servitude have been hard to come by. I see the ever-evolving names of racial classifications to little else than an increasing knowledge of our world's diversity.

Even as late as the early 20th Century, from Carleton Coon's work, we thought the world comprised of negroids, mongoloids, caucasiods, capoids, and Australoids. Even through our lifetimes we've seen a change in the way we refer to black Americans and even white Americans, and most especially how we refer to Hispanics. Of course these ever-changing classifications can cause confusion among the youth, but I don't think it's intentional, just reflective of our growing knowledge about race and heritage.

---> Even though slavery was 400 years ago, why do people still regard its existence as a great crime, so much to the effect that many black and white people live with a strong bias of the other purely on this basis which in turn leads to much larger racial separation in the social stratification system in american society today.

Why is it such a big deal? Look who still has the most economic power in this country. Guess why? Yup, it goes all the way back to slavery, then general disenfranchisement. How do you expect a people to automatically achieve equality and parity when only 5 decades ago they didn't even have the right to vote?


The state of most black communities today are linked to slavery and to the hundreds of years of abuse and oppression, simple as that.

I think some people might better understand it this way: If you're born black it's like you 'owe' someone $500,000 in terms of all the adversity you have to fight against (crappy schools due to lower property values in ethnic neighborhoods, lack of connections, covert racism in hiring, etc etc) while when you're born white (especially a white male) is like you came to this world with $500,000 in the bank in terms of all the advantages you get in this society.


Not saying it's your fault for being white, but you look at white activists working on race and they say they do what they do because it's everyone's responsibility to change a society that is still plagued by heavy overt and covert racism.

You point out some obvious links between slavery and the predicment befallen by many American blacks, but I think some are overly simplistic, especially your analogy.

I don't think issues of race allow for easy comphrehsion trough some sort of socio-economic prisim given the socio-economic diversity within minority communities. While it remains true that racism doesn't discriminate--in that if you hate blacks, you hate all blacks, or some such bias--we need to account for the varying degrees of accomplishment (or lack of) experienced by minority goups generally, each of which have those among them within every economic strata.

[Boricua]

I agree that my analogies might have been simplistic, but I think how the conversation on this thread began it merited a simple explanation or discussion. Racism and inequality being such a complex and entangled issue, I think it's difficult to convey accurately by a simple message here.

[TheScotsman]

apparently on some show some where they said calling short people midgets is like calling blacks the "nword" (only saying nword because im not sure if i can here). so i was wondering what if you call a black short person a nworder midget, which do they take more offense to?

Why would you even use that term at all - regardless of it's permitted or not?

because im not going to get banned for something that stupid. there is no way that midget can be anywere as close to the offenseve level. also i dont see why people can stop being offended by it. apparently cracker is suppose to be offensve to white people and i never got it even after it was explained to me. pretty much the only way to piss me off is slander me

Cracker and The N word will never NEVER be even closely related in terms of offensiveness. Why? Because no one has ever been lynched, denied housing, denied loans, killed, raped, etc while being called a Cracker. And also, even though you might be called that by some ignorant fool - guess who still has the most power in this society?

Go read Tim Wise's "White Like Me"

Saying something this completely stupid when we have elected a Black president is, well, for lack of a better word... retarded. (Not to mention showing a bit of lack of touch with reality. Must be the white-guilt in action)

[Boricua]

Care to back that up with anything of substance or did I just offend your sensibilities?

What does show is your lack of any real thought on the matter - it seems to me you are just another one jumping on the "we have a black president so racism is over" bandwagon.....

That is indeed what would be stupid.

Don't get me wrong, electing Obama was a huge step - but if you think that really means racism in this country is over (particularly institutionalized and covert racism) well I would say you really know nothing on the matter.

[Bye bye now have fun]

thescotsman hes from DC just drop it you arent going to win. whats bigger bullshit is quotas. i fucking hate how companies have to hire a certain amount of women and minorities. i dont care about minorties because the 2 black guys in my major are smarter than me but some of the chicks dont understand the difference between an IP address and a port number and get 4 internships with the nsa

[Boricua]

thescotsman hes from DC just drop it you arent going to win. whats bigger bullshit is quotas. i fucking hate how companies have to hire a certain amount of women and minorities. i dont care about minorties because the 2 black guys in my major are smarter than me but some of the chicks dont understand the difference between an IP address and a port number and get 4 internships with the nsa

I don't agree with your comments.

This is exactly the problem with racism and sexism, etc. Just because you might know a couple of not so smart minorities or women you bunch them all together??

So because most serial killers, child molesters, and rapists are white I should conclude all white people are like that? Obviously not...

Quotas for schools and businesses are a thing of the past for the most part - don't try to blame women/minorities for schools/jobs passing up on you on them, it was probably because you weren't good enough. Plus, you really don't get why quotas were implemented in the first place.

PS: Yes, I live in DC and some of the most gifted employees I know from DoD and NSA are guess what: women...

[Bye bye now have fun]

ya well shes close to retarded as you can get. if your degree has the word "technology" and "computer security" you better know the difference between an ip address and a port number. thats like an engineer not knowing calc. and how is it racist that the 2 *TOTAL* black guys in my major are smart. btw there 5 women in my major and only one knows what she is talking about. so when 80% of whites are serial killers, child molesters, and rapists then yes you can make that assumption. quotas are 100% bullshit. my dad is working on a project where they have to use 15% of their work by minority subcontractors. if a company that uses all mexicans and blacks but is owned by some old white dude is used it counts, conversely if they only employ white guys but owned by a black dude but only use white workers it doesnt count. there is 0 reason to have to hire someone because of their gender or race. there is 0 way that she is smarter than me because ive had her in labs and she is confused by the simplist commandline command. and they didnt hire me because i have a shitty gpa from before i switched majors

[Sonthert]

What a shitty thread. You boys play nice now.

To the thread, I am not fucking politically correct by any means.

I say what I mean and mean what I say...barring any mistakes or hastiness.

So, I don't particularly care when somebody comes up and says "Don't use the R-word". I think groups redefining the terms that people use for them is absurd. I don't want to be called fat, I want to be called a rotund-American. Who cares? I'm fat. Your calling me fat doesn't reduce or damage me. If I say it does, then I'd call myself overly-sensitive. We should try to use the appropriate terminology, if we feel like it. If a phrase obviously upsets a lot of people, try using a different word, for Christ's sake. Be the person you want to be, try to be considerate, but don't be so driven to be considerate that you start being subject to people's whims.

I freely reject any person who says I shouldn't say this or that. I completely understand not using either of the n-words. They both connote states and conditions for blacks that haven't existed for generations...so to use the phrase "That n* drives like shit" is absurd, because there haven't been n*s for years. So, you are either trying to use n* to piss off somebody, start trouble or you aren't saying what you mean. I don't usually engage in any one of the three. The argument "Well I didn't mean it that way." Is irrelevant, since you select words to communicate with other people, if you don't mean the n* word that way, select a word that will communicate your thoughts better. Or don't. I follow the advice of Martin Luther King, Jr. I don't judge people by their words, I judge them by their actions. As far as your custodial engineer situation...yeah...dumb. I would ask a person who told you not to say janitor what the difference was between a janitor and a custodial coordinator. If they give you and answer, you learned why the person you are looking for isn't a janitor. I mean, you wouldn't go ask somebody "Where is the striped water?" when you were looking for the janitor...because you mean janitor. So, I would find out if that person knows the difference between the two. Obviously, they know what you mean, they are just being stupid, because they didn't say "What's a janitor?"

On the other hand, if they tell you "That's what we call him." You can say something along the lines of "This is a free country, I will not have my freedom of speech censored." If they can't explain the difference, then tell them you still want to see the janitor. If they persist, talk to their supervisor and tell them the situation, and then their supervisor, etc. Until somebody gets the janitor. Get snooty. Don't let them cow you. Stand up for your rights. Or don't...just a thought.

On the other hand, I don't understand why "black" became pejorative. If someone can explain that, I wold appreciate it. I think the term African-American is inaccurate and misleading...we're all Americans irrespective of our ancestry. I knew a Panamanian guy who referred to himself as a Panamanian-American. The black or African-American had nothing to do with it (Panamanians are Americans, too, Central Americans...). Are you going to tell him that he should refer to himself as an African-American? Probably not, since his statement isn't inaccurate, then I don't think anybody should be correcting anybody else for that matter.

Also, in a general sense, your statement about black crime is either irrelevant or inaccurate. Almost all crimes are committed by poor people, whether white, black, asian or whatnot. The observation that they are black doesn't show the true correlation. Blacks are disproportionately poor, so they seem more prominently criminal, but blacks themselves are not criminal either by sub-culture or genetics, so in fact your statement regarding the "true fact" is either irrelevant or inaccurate. Its an observation, but that doesn't make it a fact. Its an observation, but not a fact, that the moon is larger when it first rises or when it is setting than when it is directly overhead, but that is an illusion, the moon is the same size all the time. Making observations is a good way to obtain information, but observations can be false or mistaken, too. Hence, observations are not facts.

Erufiku: I think I agree to some degree if we were all Americans (or Canadians in your case) and addressed in that manner, perhaps racism might disappear. If we think of people of different races as connected to us in an immutable way, we start to see them as something other than different.

Boricua #2:
Why would you question whether he would use the n* word or not? Why do you care if sounds ignorant or not?

I think you are incorrect, media outlets do specify that they're white, the same way they're black if thats what is specific or important at the time. I hear criminals being referred to as white, black, asian, Mexican, etc. all the time. I'm sure you could find several clips of news shows talking about blacks, several not mentioning that a person's white...that doesn't mean its prevalent. You're calling "racism" on the media. Its easy to call "racism", but its nothing more than calling a black person a n*. You're using an inaccurate pejorative term, with little evidence to support the point, but ignoring contradictory evidence.

Your third point shows some insight, but I think you're making a hasty generalization regarding us from being privileged backgrounds. I don't think you should make characterizations about people you know nothing about...thats what racism is about. The funny thing is racists don't see why their characterizations are inaccurate...they think they're good people with honest intentions and everybody else is wrong...you don't feel the same way...do you?

Additionally, I don't know where you're getting your information, but blacks were given the right to vote 3-Feb 1870. A little more than a generation ago.

I think the observation that people have difficulty understanding people different than themselves is an important one, I agree with that, but I wouldn't believe that everyone who disagrees with you is in that state of condition.

To your fourth post, I agree to some extent. On the other hand, I do feel if some uses a derogatory term in an attempt to piss somebody else off, the history of the word is irrelevant. I give up...who has the most power in society? The heavy equipment operators? The prohibitionists? I mean, if I were inclined to judge people by their race, I might make a characterization about what racial group predominate the prison system...or whom predominates the power elite...its the same line of reasoning that makes you imply whites hold the majority of power in society and Hellcat imply that blacks are responsible for most of the crime.

Your fifth post: Again, blacks were granted the right to vote 130 years ago...I don't think a study of the power elite is important. On the other hand, before granting of civil rights to blacks (other than voting), when segregation was still the rule, there was a complete parallel economy for blacks in the U.S. It was smaller than the white economy, obviously, but where is that economy now? Largely decimated, bought out by the white power elite. Think about it for awhile.

I don't think that all the problems in parts of America can be solely attributed to slavery. I think thats silly. I will agree that blacks have been fucked over repeatedly, but I don't think the recent shit has anything to do with race, simply economics. The monies versus the non-monies. I heard a sitting U.S. representative say that we shouldn't help New Orleans because the criminal-ridden black communities sucked out all of their share of money from welfare in the first place. (Darrel Issa-R-Asshole) A lot of it comes from sucking money out of everyone's pocket...nobosy seems to care. Whos the hardest hit by the moves to legalize gambling and lotteries...the blacks, presumably...but state's didn't begin lotteries with the express purpose of screwing blacks over.

It certainly isn't my fault for being white. Try ignoring people's race and whatnot. Focusing on it is just a road to hatred.

Judge Poser, good as always. Much more pluralistic. How else could you and I hang out and associate we have? Such a thing was unthinkable 40 years ago. Yay for pluralism!

Scotsman: Word. Although inequities for the average black may still exist...