Political Corectness Makes Me Gag

[An1m]

So, just who decided to call Indians "Native Americans?" It's an insult, if you think about it. To name a people after a name picked by a mistaken German geographer, from a title of a book written by an Italian merchant/shipbuilder who was trying to send more pale-faces here to oppress the natives.


I guess if we are going to worry about the past, was it not the Jews who were enslaved by the Egyptians (Egypt being on the continent of Africa makes them Africans.) long before Europeans even made an iron sword? We need to right that wrong with some affirmative action, by your logic.

The premises of blaming anyone alive today for the past becomes an exceedingly ill conceived one when you realize fact that the slaves were already slaves under African rulers before they were sold to European slave traders. For that matter, our biased view of history says very little about the African inter-communal trade wars over slavery. It was a crap-history, and a shame upon those that lived in that time. But for the love of it all, the last surviving Confederate soldier died in 1957... at 109 years old. It's time to give it up. We have a nation lead by a president of African decent, numerous mayors, public officials, congressmen... and you are going to talk oppression, and try to blame someone born more than 100 years after the civil war for slavery, claiming they owe something for that past? Bahahahha.... gasp.... bahahah

First of all slavery in Africa was nothing like slavery in America. I'm not going to go into all of the differences, but if you life you can go inform yourself,I'll actually point in the right direction of where to start reading if you are actually interested. Here are a few though: Slavery in Africa generally consisted of defeated warriors from other tribes, was on a small scale, was not perpetual and if a slave escaped they could go back to their tribe or blend in elsewhere.

I actually laughed when you listed the fact that there's a black president and black politicians as if it meant anything. I wasn't "talking oppression" friendo. I don't know if you paid attention to what was being said in the thread, it was gnu that asserted I was talking about oppression because I mentioned slavery, I then agreed and told him that we are all oppressed. Once again I am not blaming anybody for slavery (something else I've mentioned in this thread...).

also the us didnt invent slavery, i believe it was either Portugal or Spain that came up with the idea of using african people as slaves. also the roman and greeks had slaves too.

There were some slaves that came with Columbus, if I recall correctly but what's your point?

also the us didnt invent slavery, i believe it was either Portugal or Spain that came up with the idea of using african people as slaves. also the roman and greeks had slaves too.

Just about every ancient culture seems to have had some sort of slavery, just the way of the world.



I suppose I might as well toss my two cents in. Any talk of how certain racial groups are left out in the cold in America just leaves me, well, rather cold. Especially since I (being more or less white) would probably be expected to foot the bill for any of the reparations that are sometimes called for. The only ancestors of mine that were here before the civil war were Iroquois, or Irish... and one of the few things I know for certain about the Irish side was that several of them fought for the union at the time.

There's also the point that many white and asian folks came to the states to work in the mills, mines, and railroads for slave wages, with no real hope of advancement and horrible living/working conditions. Not really a whole lot different than slaves, and in some respects probably as bad or worse than working the plantations. Not to downplay the troubles of blacks in America at all, but other groups have overcome prejudice and earned respect here to become prosperous. Maybe there's just something I'm missing though, but I can't seem to find it.

Once again American slavery was unique from all of those other forms of slavery. It was perpetual, if your mother was a slave, then you were a slave. Also, after slavery ended African Americans were not allowed to do the myriad things that immigrants could do. Other immigrants, especially white immigrants could accumulate wealth and for the reasons I outlined in an earlier post, African Americans were not afforded the same rights.

You're missing plenty and all of you can find it in my earlier posts. If you guys seriously can not understand how depriving people of the same opportunities, opportunities as important as accumulating wealth through home ownership and investment, employment, university admission, would affect future generations then I don't know what to tell you.

[Bye bye now have fun]

my point is that in school they never teach it to people. i think its not fair to show the history. It would be the same as telling kids rape is wrong but not telling what it is or why its wrong. also i know for a fact that they city states that Sparta steamrolled early on was forced into slavery and was kept that way. that was one of the reasons why they were a militant society, because the slaves vastly out numbered the Spartans. the romans did the same when they destroyed gaul and the germanic tribes, in addition to slaughtering entire cities. im not a history major but do like history and cant think of one thing that the US did in their slave thing that wasnt done before, besides maybe slave ships but they couldnt march them across the ocean

[Scoop]

I'm not going to get into arguing in this thread, but saying Roman slavery was somehow less bad than American slavery is a laughable idea.

"In the Roman Republic, the law recognised slaves as a social class, and some authors have found in their condition the earliest concept of a proletariat, given that the only property they might own was the gift of reproduction. Slaves lived then within this class with very little hope of a better life; and free men owned and exchanged them just like goods. They had a price as "human instruments"; their life had not, and their patron could freely even kill them."

Sure some laws were created about abandoning slaves and losing them but this may be because some of the wealthier Romans had upwards of 10,000-20,000 slaves.

Please, for the sake of argument, explain how American slavery was unique. Also, look at Slavery in Brazil. It was far worse than slavery in America. Brazil was the last nation in the Western Hemisphere to abolish slavery in 1888. Even worse, people were considered enslaved there pretty recently.

"In 1995, 288 farmworkers were freed from what was officially described as slavery, a total which rose to 583 in 2000. In 2001, however, the Brazilian government freed more than 1,400 slave laborers. Most cases probably go undetected. A national survey conducted in 2000 by the Pastoral Land Commission, a Roman Catholic Church group, estimated that there were more than 25,000 forced workers and slaves in Brazil.[11]

In 2004 the Brazilian government acknowledged to the United Nations that at least 25,000 Brazilians work under work conditions "analogous to slavery." The top anti-slavery official in Brasilia, nation's capital, estimates the number of modern slaves at 50,000. [12] More than 1,000 slave laborers were freed from a sugar cane plantation in 2007 by the Brazilian government, in the largest anti-slavery raid in modern times in Brazil.[3]

In 2008, the Brazilian government freed 4,634 slaves in 133 separate criminal cases at 255 different locations. Freed slaves received a total compensation of £2.4 million.[13]"

[LJ04]

not sure if this was mentioned, but obama on leno likening his bowling skills to the special olympics... classic!

[Bye bye now have fun]

better than sending random people to gitmo

[TheScotsman]

So, just who decided to call Indians "Native Americans?" It's an insult, if you think about it. To name a people after a name picked by a mistaken German geographer, from a title of a book written by an Italian merchant/shipbuilder who was trying to send more pale-faces here to oppress the natives.


I guess if we are going to worry about the past, was it not the Jews who were enslaved by the Egyptians (Egypt being on the continent of Africa makes them Africans.) long before Europeans even made an iron sword? We need to right that wrong with some affirmative action, by your logic.

The premises of blaming anyone alive today for the past becomes an exceedingly ill conceived one when you realize fact that the slaves were already slaves under African rulers before they were sold to European slave traders. For that matter, our biased view of history says very little about the African inter-communal trade wars over slavery. It was a crap-history, and a shame upon those that lived in that time. But for the love of it all, the last surviving Confederate soldier died in 1957... at 109 years old. It's time to give it up. We have a nation lead by a president of African decent, numerous mayors, public officials, congressmen... and you are going to talk oppression, and try to blame someone born more than 100 years after the civil war for slavery, claiming they owe something for that past? Bahahahha.... gasp.... bahahah

First of all slavery in Africa was nothing like slavery in America. I'm not going to go into all of the differences, but if you life you can go inform yourself,I'll actually point in the right direction of where to start reading if you are actually interested. Here are a few though: Slavery in Africa generally consisted of defeated warriors from other tribes, was on a small scale, was not perpetual and if a slave escaped they could go back to their tribe or blend in elsewhere.

I actually laughed when you listed the fact that there's a black president and black politicians as if it meant anything. I wasn't "talking oppression" friendo. I don't know if you paid attention to what was being said in the thread, it was gnu that asserted I was talking about oppression because I mentioned slavery, I then agreed and told him that we are all oppressed. Once again I am not blaming anybody for slavery (something else I've mentioned in this thread...).

also the us didnt invent slavery, i believe it was either Portugal or Spain that came up with the idea of using african people as slaves. also the roman and greeks had slaves too.

There were some slaves that came with Columbus, if I recall correctly but what's your point?

also the us didnt invent slavery, i believe it was either Portugal or Spain that came up with the idea of using african people as slaves. also the roman and greeks had slaves too.

Just about every ancient culture seems to have had some sort of slavery, just the way of the world.



I suppose I might as well toss my two cents in. Any talk of how certain racial groups are left out in the cold in America just leaves me, well, rather cold. Especially since I (being more or less white) would probably be expected to foot the bill for any of the reparations that are sometimes called for. The only ancestors of mine that were here before the civil war were Iroquois, or Irish... and one of the few things I know for certain about the Irish side was that several of them fought for the union at the time.

There's also the point that many white and asian folks came to the states to work in the mills, mines, and railroads for slave wages, with no real hope of advancement and horrible living/working conditions. Not really a whole lot different than slaves, and in some respects probably as bad or worse than working the plantations. Not to downplay the troubles of blacks in America at all, but other groups have overcome prejudice and earned respect here to become prosperous. Maybe there's just something I'm missing though, but I can't seem to find it.

Once again American slavery was unique from all of those other forms of slavery. It was perpetual, if your mother was a slave, then you were a slave. Also, after slavery ended African Americans were not allowed to do the myriad things that immigrants could do. Other immigrants, especially white immigrants could accumulate wealth and for the reasons I outlined in an earlier post, African Americans were not afforded the same rights.

You're missing plenty and all of you can find it in my earlier posts. If you guys seriously can not understand how depriving people of the same opportunities, opportunities as important as accumulating wealth through home ownership and investment, employment, university admission, would affect future generations then I don't know what to tell you.

Again, Africans held Jews in a perpetual slavery... but I guess that doesn't count does it?

It's just funny to hear anyone standing on dirt that was stolen from the Ndns, and bitching about how bad their forebears had it.

That was then, this is now. Live in the present, or be a victim of the past. I guess that is everyone's choice.

[Boricua]

Perpetual slavery? I don't see them under "African" slavery these days, or 100 years ago, or 1,000.....

I think some people here are talking about reparations while others are talking about racism and it's residual effect on society today.

IMO reparations achieve nothing and really approach the issue with the wrong idea. Throwing money at it will not make things better.

What I don't see most people here talking about is the residual effects that racism have in our society. How it might be much more difficult for minorities to get a decent education, job, house, loans, etc etc etc.

Slavery in Africa, Ancient Greece, etc etc really doesn't relate to what we're talking about. What happened millennia ago (as in Greece) really does not compare to a modern industrialized and systematic slavery of a particular race.

Maybe you didn't have to do anything with slavery, maybe your parents came from somewhere in Europe and didn't have anything to do with it either but they did certainly reap the benefits of being or looking white and eventually being accepted as such. I think the responsibility of everyone, regardless of position or race, is to inform themselves on the reality of things and change what little they might be able to.

[Bye bye now have fun]

according to my history10 class the jew werent your normal slaves, they were paid some but were pretty much forced to stay and had to listen. it was a more extreme case of mining towns. or at least thats what they said when we did ancient egypt

[Sonthert]

An1m: There were free blacks, there were slave owners who were black. True? I don't think it can be said that all African-Americans were deprived of the things slaves were. Some blacks were quite wealthy.

Boris: Don't forget the Caribbean, The guy who invented Lynching was from the West Indies. He was recruited by American slave owners to train them how to be complete fuckers too. Also, some areas had different statuses in their treatment of slaves. Florida was more lenient on slaves than other states, for instance.

[Boricua]

An1m: There were free blacks, there were slave owners who were black. True? I don't think it can be said that all African-Americans were deprived of the things slaves were. Some blacks were quite wealthy.

I don't know but that feels a bit like trying to look at the very few exceptions instead of the larger picture.

[Sonthert]

How so? Its not that insignificant that 10-15% of blacks were free during the period of slavery.

An1m said "You're missing plenty and all of you can find it in my earlier posts. If you guys seriously can not understand how depriving people of the same opportunities, opportunities as important as accumulating wealth..."

I was pointing out that the history of blacks in America isn't all as slaves and there were obviously several thousand slave owners who owned property and therefore must have owned property, so that the statement implying all blacks were deprived of the right to own property is inaccurate. Black complex literacy rates in some states was 95+%, so not all blacks were necessarily treated like slaves and denied most civilized human rights.

Don't look at exceptions...just make generalizations? Is that what you're proposing?

[An1m]

How so? Its not that insignificant that 10-15% of blacks were free during the period of slavery.

An1m said "You're missing plenty and all of you can find it in my earlier posts. If you guys seriously can not understand how depriving people of the same opportunities, opportunities as important as accumulating wealth..."

I was pointing out that the history of blacks in America isn't all as slaves and there were obviously several thousand slave owners who owned property and therefore must have owned property, so that the statement implying all blacks were deprived of the right to own property is inaccurate. Black complex literacy rates in some states was 95+%, so not all blacks were necessarily treated like slaves and denied most civilized human rights.

Don't look at exceptions...just make generalizations? Is that what you're proposing?

We're talking about the lasting effects of Slavery on society. If some blacks owned slaves that doesn't change that black people's rights were legislated away or that black people were denied the same opportunities to accumulate wealth. Just because some people may have been better off than others, does not mitigate the fact that the experiences of nearly all African Americans were a lot different.

I'd also like to see your sources about complex literacy rates and black slave ownership, I haven't read much on the second topic.

[An1m]

Perpetual slavery? I don't see them under "African" slavery these days, or 100 years ago, or 1,000.....

I think some people here are talking about reparations while others are talking about racism and it's residual effect on society today.

IMO reparations achieve nothing and really approach the issue with the wrong idea. Throwing money at it will not make things better.

What I don't see most people here talking about is the residual effects that racism have in our society. How it might be much more difficult for minorities to get a decent education, job, house, loans, etc etc etc.

Slavery in Africa, Ancient Greece, etc etc really doesn't relate to what we're talking about. What happened millennia ago (as in Greece) really does not compare to a modern industrialized and systematic slavery of a particular race.

Maybe you didn't have to do anything with slavery, maybe your parents came from somewhere in Europe and didn't have anything to do with it either but they did certainly reap the benefits of being or looking white and eventually being accepted as such. I think the responsibility of everyone, regardless of position or race, is to inform themselves on the reality of things and change what little they might be able to.

This is very well said.

[Sonthert]

http://www.amazon.com/Peculiar-Institution...6287&sr=8-2

Is one.

Also, not that the first legally recognized slave in the United States was owned by a black man, Anthony Johnston. In a VA court ruling, his slave was declared to be legal property for life.

Edit that should read "Note that the first legally recognized slave..."