Divorce

[fcbayern]

SO I dont think I have to state the obvious, this is something I'm considering. THe unhappines has gotten to a point where I dont even want to come home any more. I have 2 small children and really worry about how this might affect them. Economically we are stressed like many americans and IDK if i could afford to move out even if I wanted too. Much less pay child support. Just wanted to get you guys ideas on #1 the emotional aspect #2 the affects on the children and #3 the economical

PS I never thought I'd por my guts out like this.. BUt I know my friends here will have good advice.. THanx

[Victim026]

Sounds like you would be a good canidate for marriage counseling as a first step, is she just as unhappy as you are?

[indian_villager]

Have you in any way actively tried spicing things up to bring the happiness back? It's gotta be tough I give you that. I initiall thought go for it but then I saw that you have kids. I'd say stick it out for the kids. I'm more of a finish what you started type of fellow. What exactly is making you unhappy in this situation?

[tinyj316]

While I respect the "stick together for the kids" argument for avoiding divorce, I can say (not first hand, though 4 of my really good friends have had their parents go through a divorce, or gone through one themselves) that staying together for the kids is not always the best thing to do. It all boils down to how young the kids are, their cognitive abilities, their emotional stability, etc.

I know a couple who has three children. Two of the kids were a product of the wife's prior relationship, one was a product of the marriage, the husband had adopted the other two. They were going to get divorced because the mother is a cheater (once a cheater, always a cheater...but that's another discussion). The kids are 8, 5, and 2. They had a family meeting to discuss the situation. The older two kids (not the husbands biological kids) sided with dad, saying mommy was mean for wanting to kick daddy out, etc., while the youngest didn't have a clue what was going on. Ultimately, they decided to stay together for the kids... its still not a good situation, and the kids know it... they're starting to resent their mother. I get a call about one every couple weeks saying that things are at critical mass, and its only a matter of time before things break down. She doesn't really love him anymore, in fact, she is now telling the kids she's working nights so she can go spend the night with her new boyfriend. The husband loves these kids, can't afford to raise them on his own, but she's not really fit to be a mother at the moment.

Should they keep staying together for the kids? Granted, its kind of an extreme situation, but that's how life goes.

I know another couple who has 2 kids as a result of the marriage. They ended up getting divorced because his wife started to change. She became super critical of him all the time, nothing was good enough anymore, and he became resentful of her. Conversely, he picked up a bad drinking habit and was a habitual gambler from the start. Their daughters were 11 and 16, both of whom were blindsided by the divorce. After the divorce, both of them hated their mom with a passion, but she needed them. They hated their dad just as much because he was the the filer of the divorce and a general jackass. In court, the mother won full custody with visitation to be determined by the daughters (if they wanted to see their father, they were welcome to, and the mother had to let them). The father then started buying the girls whatever they wanted in an effort to win them back. The mother tried to keep them locked down to the house 90% of the time by enforcing strict curfews and rules. The girls ended up resenting both parents as a result (the dad's motive was too clear to them, and their mom was too controlling)

Should they have stayed together for the kids? I don't know if it would have made a difference or not, but it very well could have saved the girls a lot of strife.

[nicko99]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I've been in the same place before and it isn't an easy thing to fix. Especially if you are both unhappy. Before going thru with divorce, try all things possible to save the relationship.



As for the children, they will survive. It will be a major adjustment for them as well as yourself. If the unhappiness has turned to constant stress and tension in the house they will benefit from that ending. You can still be there for them emotionally. Staying for "their sake" is not making it necessarily better for them if all they are seeing is a negative relationship.



I am saying this as someone that has gone thru this and has a better relationship with my EX now than we could have by staying together. We are all better off this way.



You have to be happy in life too!



I hope whatever happens that it works out for all of you.

[Stuie]

Sounds like you would be a good canidate for marriage counseling as a first step, is she just as unhappy as you are?

I second.

One thing people often don't realize is if you aren't careful and make the effort. Marriages become "child centered" and not "Spouse Centered" The obvious example is the alarming rate of Empty Nesters getting divorced. If your children become the center of your marriage you can't see your spouse because they are in between you. You start to forget what drew you to your spouse, what made them smile, what their dreams are, what their passions are.

Not sure on your beliefs, but here something I have done, that might interest you, or not. www.mensfraternity.com This made my marriage 100 times better and saved my best friends marriage after he had an affair and he's not a religious person at all.

[fcbayern]

So I guess I gotta give some more detail on my situation (I was trying not to).. So my wife and I are unhappy, we have been for a while. She has major jealousy issues always has. She has always checked my e-mails, phone records, text mess, so on.. a while back she found out I have been talking to a girl at work. We have gone out a couple of times (but my wife doesnt know that much). Anyhow there is now a lot of tension at home, and she second guesses everything I say (with good reason). To add insult to injury, last month her job cut her salary in half. So I have major issues.

Alright I was unhappy b4 I met the new chick, but being around her reminded me of how fun life used to be. Of course all relationships are fun in the beginning. My wife is a great woman/mother, but I'm affraid she will never let this one go. She says she wants to work it out but I dont think she can forgive me. Plus I'm not sure I want to.

My kids are 4 and 1 and I hate to see them have to deal with a whole step dad, step mom issue. But dont want them to have to deal with Mom and Dad Fight every night issue. Also if I do divorce, and start a relationship with the new girl, my kids and Wife will probably hate her for breaking up our marriage..

Counseling is out of our budget, we tried it for a couple of sessions but it was like $100 bucks everyweek..

thanx

[Stuie]

sending PM....

[Imsomint]

Wasn't this also the same guy that wanted to know if he should smoke in front of his kids?

EDIT: Yes it is. Edited April 2, 2009 by Imsomint

[cotsi95]

So I guess I gotta give some more detail on my situation (I was trying not to).. So my wife and I are unhappy, we have been for a while. She has major jealousy issues always has. She has always checked my e-mails, phone records, text mess, so on.. a while back she found out I have been talking to a girl at work. We have gone out a couple of times (but my wife doesnt know that much). Anyhow there is now a lot of tension at home, and she second guesses everything I say (with good reason). To add insult to injury, last month her job cut her salary in half. So I have major issues.

Alright I was unhappy b4 I met the new chick, but being around her reminded me of how fun life used to be. Of course all relationships are fun in the beginning. My wife is a great woman/mother, but I'm affraid she will never let this one go. She says she wants to work it out but I dont think she can forgive me. Plus I'm not sure I want to.

My kids are 4 and 1 and I hate to see them have to deal with a whole step dad, step mom issue. But dont want them to have to deal with Mom and Dad Fight every night issue. Also if I do divorce, and start a relationship with the new girl, my kids and Wife will probably hate her for breaking up our marriage..

Counseling is out of our budget, we tried it for a couple of sessions but it was like $100 bucks everyweek..

thanx

I hate to say it but you fucked up pretty bad. Im a VERY VERY VERY loyal person, i have trust issues to and my last relationship basically ended the same way as yours is in trouble. Honestly it will only work if BOTH of you want it to. You have to ask yourself, do i really want to lose everything i have and basically start over? Or do i owe it to my kids to actually sit down and try and work things out?. I vote for #2.

[ElijahSing]

Honesty is the absolute best thing you can do.
Its that simple.. usually the hardest thing is the thing you should do.
If you don't want to be with her, you still need to tell her about the other girl and tell her completely how you feel.
There might be some really hard feelings at first but in time, She will thank you for being honest.
Good luck man, and I hope you make the right choice.

[Arcane]

i'm going with cotsi on this one. you messed up. tell your wife the truth first and go from there. she'll probably make the decision for you. if she's willing to work it out, then i think you should put some effort to make it work. if not, then have that "family meeting".


then again, i come from a culture where divorce just doesn't happen. i have an aunt, who's husband beats her, sleeps around, etc, and they're still married. but, they don't even live close to each other. so, yeah...my view may be a bit skewed.

[Tyler]

As a child of divorced parents, I would say that while it would have been nice to have my parents together, seeing them both happier was better growing up and also afforded travel oppertunities that helped me grow as a person.

[thecyrax]

As a child of divorced parents, I would say that while it would have been nice to have my parents together, seeing them both happier was better growing up and also afforded travel oppertunities that helped me grow as a person.

+1

[jezter6]

Yeah, now that you've tipped the hand that you're not happy and looking elsewhere - it's time to seriously have a talk with her and let her make a decision on if she cares enough to stay around -- that is unless you're sure you don't want to be with her anymore. Sometimes we go through periods of wanting to escape, but would be happily married again in a month - so don't just assume you're done.

But she may just make the choice FOR you, at which point you just try to weather the storm. The fact that you're the guilty party means she gets to give you a lot of crap in the divorce process, and you're going to just have to take it because you fucked up. if this was just a "i am unhappy, lets consider separating" and it's mutual, you'd be in a better spot.

[Rani]

Here's the thing..... Relationships change and people mess up. First of all, you need to get over your mistake yourself. Not just blow it off, but accept responsibility for having made a mistake and learning from it. For your own benefit because do you really want to spend the rest of your life knowing you're not a trustworthy person? Of course not. Part of that accepting responsibility means accepting that she may never be able to forgive you. On the practical side, sure you could up and walk away and do the start over thing and many people do that believing the relationship is too damaged to fix. But economically it sounds like neither of you can afford to just do that, and that's probably a good thing because it's going to force you to examine the relationship all the way.

You are parents together. You have a relationship together as parents for the rest of your life. While you may both be happier with someone else and that may happen down the line right now you need to find a way to work together to make the best of the situation as it exists right now.

What I think (just my opinion) is that people never really communicate anymore. Were so working to avoid conflict that we don't say what we truly feel - good, bad, painful, happy. If you're holding your feelings inside all this time chances are so is she. I would suggest the two of you get away together alone for a weekend. Leave the kids with the grandparents or a sitter you trust for the whole weekend. The two of you need to get away alone not to restore the magic but to hash it out and see if you can find a way to go forward from this point taking into consideration all the emotional and economic ties and pressures you're under. When you start communicating, you might find amazing things happening. Maybe you'll fall in love again. Maybe you'll discover that the best future for you is to live together as friends in mutual respect until such time as you can afford an amicable divorce. Maybe it will be neither of these and something else entirely. You have to find a solution that works for you. Neither of you deserve an unhappy life and if you can appraoch communication as a means to finding out what you both truly feel and work together to find a working solutiion, you can get through this with dignity, respect for each other and the right supportive relationship with and for your children while making intelligent and informed choices for your own happiness. It isn't easy, but you might surprise yourself a year from now looking back and seeing that being open hearted and reaching out to her not as just your wife but as two people who need to talk about their mutual situation, may have been the turning point. The important thing is finding a solution that works for both of you and your children.

'Rani

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Sounds like you would be a good canidate for marriage counseling as a first step, is she just as unhappy as you are?

I second.

One thing people often don't realize is if you aren't careful and make the effort. Marriages become "child centered" and not "Spouse Centered" The obvious example is the alarming rate of Empty Nesters getting divorced. If your children become the center of your marriage you can't see your spouse because they are in between you. You start to forget what drew you to your spouse, what made them smile, what their dreams are, what their passions are.

Absofucking-lutely true. I'm also married with 2 kids and our life has become kidcentric, we've taken it so far that it feels like we barely know eachother anymore as lovers, or just people in general. The hard part is trying to figure out WTF works to start down the path to marital rediscovery...

So I guess I gotta give some more detail on my situation (I was trying not to).. So my wife and I are unhappy, we have been for a while. She has major jealousy issues always has. She has always checked my e-mails, phone records, text mess, so on.. a while back she found out I have been talking to a girl at work. We have gone out a couple of times (but my wife doesnt know that much). Anyhow there is now a lot of tension at home, and she second guesses everything I say (with good reason). To add insult to injury, last month her job cut her salary in half. So I have major issues.

Alright I was unhappy b4 I met the new chick, but being around her reminded me of how fun life used to be. Of course all relationships are fun in the beginning. My wife is a great woman/mother, but I'm affraid she will never let this one go. She says she wants to work it out but I dont think she can forgive me. Plus I'm not sure I want to.

My kids are 4 and 1 and I hate to see them have to deal with a whole step dad, step mom issue. But dont want them to have to deal with Mom and Dad Fight every night issue. Also if I do divorce, and start a relationship with the new girl, my kids and Wife will probably hate her for breaking up our marriage..

Counseling is out of our budget, we tried it for a couple of sessions but it was like $100 bucks everyweek..

thanx

Cat out of the bag time. Meow.

I'm going through an eerily similar situation right now. Although I haven't gone out or anything with another woman, I have been very close friends with a woman I work with for about 2 years now and while my marriage has been steadily dying, I somehow managed to fall in love with the other woman. Aw crap. It's not like I'm strangers in my own marriage as we have a very intimate and close relationship compared to a lot of couples. We have come through persecution and HELL together and have come out fairly well on the other side. Well, I broke down and told the other woman that I feel the way I do but am commited to my family (VERY confusing as to whether the feelings are mutual or not). When I later felt the need to tell my wife she didn't handle it so well, understandably so. We have been a hair's bredth away from a possible divorce for the last couple months now. This shit is tougher than you guys realize. I love my family DEEPLY. I am a loyal person. I love my kids more than I thought possible. When children are involved this stuff becomes immesurably more complex. We're also poor and wouldnt be able to afford a divorced life. We both love our family and eachother but the flame has all but extinguished. We still have a great sex life, and even with that taken into account, our romance and love is very very very covered by layers of resentment and hurt built up over the years.

I didn't see it coming and it hit me like a truck. My wife has waffled between demanding a divorce and urging me to take the first steps to fix things. I have been trying my ass off to preserve things and improve everything possible but shit is HARD. Especially when I have people close to me on all sides telling me different things, and have NO idea myself what path to take, OR how to balance the ideas of family happiness, righteousness, truth, and personal happiness.

For example my oldest is 4 yrs old. My wife and I got into a short argument while I was typing the first paragraph. My wife raised her voice in a bitter tone, while I'm sure I didn't sound very pleasant. The 4 yr old started to cry and didn't know why. Suck city.

30 minutes ago we got back from a GREAT and happy family trip to the zoo.

I have a good life. Love is a fickle motherfucker. What to choose? Who's to say what's right?

I want THE BEST for my wife and kids. I just don't know what the best is. Can I give her the love she deserves?

Frankly I've been embittered by quite a few bad relationships and hard times we've been through, and as a product of divorced parents I can only hear DIVORCE so many times before losing hope. I've been a distant, passive agressive jackass for alot of the last 7 years and am NOT proud of it. Who I am hates who I've been. I'm trying to change, I need to not just for me but for my family. Not that my wife has a clean slate but I really don't feel like slandering her right now.

These issues are very complex and from a VERY similar standpoint as FCBay I can say that any advice given is taken into account when matters are this serious and confusion is running amok, so PLEASE dispense with opinions and advice carefully. Most importantly the potential happiness or misery of 2 children hangs in the balance and that is a matter we should take very seriously.

FC, man, I have no answers....sounds like we could both use that couples therapy. I cant afford it either, I'd suggest looking into community organizations that might be able to help financially. I was born Jewish so there's a Jewish Family Services place that may be able to help me, I'm looking (procrastinating) into it now. Try to find something similar that you can latch onto.

I think BOTH of our families and especially the children deserve EVERY DAMN EFFORT POSSIBLE to salvage what sound like were both at some point great bonds and relationships (I know mine were/are). If it doesn't work out at least we'll know we did EVERYTHING in our power to try and make it work.

For that matter I'm not necessarily against staying together for the kids. Whatever is best for them is best for me, the second you become a father you sacrifice yourself as the primary and they come first. Frankly they matter more.

Good luck to you sir, PM me whenever you want, maybe we can talk over the phone and commiserate, possibly help eachother sort some stuff out..

Everyone else, thanks for bearing with me, I'll take some of those good vibes and prayers too.

Fuck.

EDIT - Rani, great advice, that is EXACTLY what I'm hoping for in my situation! Thank you for taking the time to reply with all that.

[Bulldog_916]

I know I'm not much in a position to tell you how to live your life, but I would say the best thing you can do is tell her everything you've been feeling, including the feelings for the other woman. It's going to be hard, it's going to turn into an argument. But it could make you stronger to tell her that it was your fault and that you'll make amends. But if you havent cheated, then you havent done anything wrong. Do not stay together for the kids as much as that SOUNDS like a good decision. Something tells me deep down you still love her, or else you wouldnt be trying to salvage this thing.

What helps me between me and my girlfriend is we just recently got ourselves rings and we wear them on the same hand as we would in marriage. It keeps us strong even when shit is hitting the fan. I would say, every time you speak to another woman or feel yourself slipping, look at your ring and remind yourself of the vows you took, the pact that you agreed to between you and your wife. Think about your wedding day. She is still the woman you married. You are still the man she married. As long as you both have that bond, everything else is just extraneous stress. Financial woes will ease. Her stresses will settle. Patience has to be applied. It may take time, but you both said for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, till death do us part. Be eachother's support system.

[fcbayern]

Hey guys,, I cant thank you all enough for your advice. Basically I now understand that the only one who can tell me what to do is me..
I have to have a talk with self and decide whether or not I'm willing to man up and do what I know I gotta do.

Thank you to All of the great friends I've never met before..LOL

[ilikemyusername]

buy her some gummy bears and appreciate her, she'll appreciate you, together you'll appreciate a nice night.

[mustang_steve]

Being one of those kids that the parents stuck together for....DONT STICK TOGETHER FOR THE KIDS!

It causes more serious problems in the long haul. I won't go into it here, but it got really frickin ugly.

Seek counseling first...if it still looks like it's over, hopefully at least it's on better terms than it was. The biggest problem is parents taking their rage out on their kids, or using their kids to get dirt on the other side. I went through both....so I simply ignored both parents aside from "I need money", until I was old enough to move out.

I love them both, but they honestly needed to stop being so vindictive....it was so bad that they couldnt even sit there through my highschool graduation without causing a scene. Honestly, they needed to divorce back when I was 5...they kept it up until i was 12....trust me, going to sleep to them screaming at the top of their lungs every night is no way for a kid to grow up.

So in the end, if you have to, then do it....but don't hold grudges...call it done and be done...that's the best thing you can do for the kids....to hold grudges effects every aspect of your life, whether you know it or not.

Just whatever you do, if you cannot get along with each other...don't force it to work for the kids...it doesn't work.

[Canon]

as far as fighting in front of kids..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29959807/

and as far as you and your wife, i say work it out as best as you can. but if its only you trying to keep yourselves together then its a downhill fight and you should let her know that both of you need to work on the marriage for it to be a successful one (dont use that wording, pick your own)

financially, i dont know what you can afford and what you cant, but if these guys can manage their life (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28295159/) then i bet you can find a way to get a divorce and still live through the child support.

good luck, and as others have said, if the only thing keeping you both together is the kids then i say get out of the marriage.