Cinco De Mayo

[Sonthert]

If you live near Mexico, that is.

Cinco de Mayo is the marking of the victorious battle by General Seguin in the Mexican war for Independence over France, 1868 I believe. The Battle was the Battle of Puebla, a badly out-gunned and out-supplied Mexican army out-witted the efficient French. Hmm. Wait, the Battle of Puebla was before the French took over, that must make the Battle of Puebla 1862 or 1863. It was at the same time as the US Civil war, Maximillian was executed in 1867....or 1868, after the US Civil War had ended. The French took over after the Battle of Puebla, but were only in power for four years. Juarez, who is a national hero in Mexico, was the first president of Mexico after the French were deposed. Maximillian, the French emperor is reviled. Mexico borrowed heavily from foreign creditors, many of them bitched, including England, but France had the cajones to go over and collect. Mexican Independence day is like the 17th of September or some such date...I can't remember...and Wiki seems so far away. Whatever. Don't listen to me, I can't remember shit.

[Click]

Waiting for some Tangiers Orange Soda to heat up.  Should of had margarita or something, but w/e.

[Tyler]

As I said previously, Cinco de Mayo celebrates the Mexican victory over the French army, not independance day -- and it is widely celebrated in Mexico.

[Codename067]

Didn't even notice it come around.

Perhaps next year.

[ilikemyusername]

well, i was right... esk apple.

[smoke eater]

Kashmir Peach. Hey this stuff is pretty good. Different but good.
My first hookah session in over a week, still have remnants of a cold, but I can smell again!
It was lovely. I'll have to look into more of the Kashmir flavors. Went through two sets of coals, but I'm sure there's still more left in that bowl.

[Sonthert]

As I said previously, Cinco de Mayo celebrates the Mexican victory over the French army, not independance day -- and it is widely celebrated in Mexico.

I was expanding on it. It actually wasn't a victory, the French rolled on to Mexico City and installed Maximillian. It isn't widely celebrated in Mexico at all. Its more of an American thing, Only a few areas of Mexico celebrate it.

[Tyler]

They were pretty big on it while I was there in Oaxaca

[Sonthert]

Now I really have to consult Wiki:

"Cinco de Mayo (Spanish for "fifth of May") is a regional holiday in Mexico, primarily celebrated in the state of Puebla, with some limited recognition in other parts of Mexico.[1][2] The holiday commemorates the Mexican army's unlikely victory over French forces at the Battle of Puebla on May 5, 1862, under the leadership of Mexican General Ignacio Zaragoza Seguín.[3][4] The outnumbered Mexicans defeated a much better-equipped French army that had not been defeated in almost 50 years.[5]"

"In 1861, Mexico ceased making interest payments to its main creditors. In response, in late 1861, France (and other European countries) attacked Mexico to try to force payment of this debt. France decided that it would try to take over and occupy Mexico. France was successful at first in its invasion; however, on May 5, 1862, at the city of Puebla, Mexican forces were able to defeat an attack by the larger French army. In the Battle of Puebla, the Mexicans were led by General Ignacio Zaragoza Seguín. Although the Mexican army was victorious over the French at Puebla, the victory only delayed the French advance on Mexico City; a year later, the French occupied Mexico. The French occupying forces placed Maximilian I, Emperor of Mexico on the throne of Mexico in 1864. The French, under U.S. pressure, eventually withdrew in 1866-1867. Maximilian was deposed by President Benito Juarez and executed, five years after the Battle of Puebla."

""The holiday, which has been celebrated in California continuously since 1863, is virtually ignored in Mexico."[12]"

"In the United States, Cinco de Mayo has taken on a significance beyond that in Mexico.[12][14][15][16] The date is perhaps best recognized in the United States as a date to celebrate the culture and experiences of Americans of Mexican ancestry, much as St. Patrick's Day, Oktoberfest, and the Chinese New Year are used to celebrate those of Irish, German, and Chinese ancestry respectively. Similar to those holidays, Cinco de Mayo is observed by many Americans regardless of ethnic origin."

"Mexican Independence day, also referred to as Dieciséis de septiembre, is celebrated from the evening of September 15 with a re-creation of the Grito de Dolores by all executive office-holders (from the President of the Republic down to municipal presidents) and lasts through the night."

[Tyler]

Wiki

[Sherwood]

Oh, don't be down on Wikipedia. It's more correct than Brittanica, and it provides URL citations!

[Tyler]

yay it cites other internet recourses! Try using it for research and you'll learn lol, we used to have fun in my religion and classics classes going through wiki and looking at all the horrible mistakes

[Sherwood]

Try using it for research and you'll learn lol

Wikipedia is acceptable to my thesis review committee. It's also accepted by the journal "Nature". Have you been published in Nature?

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1038_3-5997332.html

[Tyler]

Sorry then your thesis review committee is a joke, no real university allows it.

[Sonthert]

Sorry then your thesis review committee is a joke, no real university allows it.

Let me get this straight...you're studying religion and your questioning the accuracy of something?

I'd like a small plate of jumbo shrimp for the ironic special of the month.

I knew all that information before I looked it up on Wiki...I listened, learned and retained in my education.

OK...I looked it up in my Encyclopedia Americana and it agrees with all the information there...good?

I agree with the imperative that Wiki is NOT reliable. I think allowing digital information to be the norm or the standard of archive is an abomination. Don't rely on Wiki when the accuracy of something is paramount, I agree. As one source in a multitude, for a thesis, I don't see a problem.

I also don't think its nice to question the theses programs at his university based on whether they allow Wiki or not. Besides, maybe he's getting a master's in Information Technology or something.

[Tyler]

I'd rather base my knowledge off of actual experience, you know -- from actually being in Mexico, not from a second hand source. And yes, I have my degree in religion and classics. Nothing inaccurate about religion in the context that Wiki is inaccurate -- are there inaccuracies in the Bible? Yes. Qur'an? Yes. Vedas and Upanishads? Yes. That's the point of studying them, to figure out who what where when and why these kinds of these existed in the first place, if they're on purpose or accident, and that they mean in a historical context, present context, or future context. That was just an ignorant comment. But, incase you missed it -- I was in Mexico on Cinco de Mayo, every city around us, including the one we were in, thought of it as a great deal and celebrated it roughly the same way we do in the US. Also, every school I've ever been to (University of Alaska, Tallahassee Community College, Florida State, and Xavier) all have banned the usage of Wikipedia for its inaccuracies and inconsitancies.

Edit: Even Wiki itself says not to use it as a credible source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Academic_use Edited May 9, 2009 by FSUReligionMan

[Sherwood]

You're missing the thrust of my point here, FSU.

You have anecdotal evidence about the accuracy of Wikipedia that's clouding your opinion here. Wikipedia states that it's only to be used as a tertiary source, which is reasonable. I use a lot of tertiary sources, however, and Wikipedia is one of them. It is just as valid as any other encyclopedia, which is to say reasonably valid, but not to be taken at face value.

I'm sorry that your Universities haven't allowed it, but again that is simply your personal experience, not some sort of universal truth. Mine does, and my masters program was ranked 6th in the world last year. (University of Denver International Relations)

Wikipedia IS valid enough to be taken at face value in an internet discussion. If you feel it's incorrect, supply your own secondary source to refute it. All you've supplied is derision.

[Tyler]

Well other than the schools I've been to, I also know for a fact that UWF, UF, UMia, OSU, UMia(OH), UDayton, Penn, Indiana, AU, and USF don't allow their students to use it either. And I'll take my "anecdotal evidence," which is first hand in the country in question, over any internet source, any day.

As Eric pointed out, Wiki could be used for some fields, sure -- but definately not all -- and never as a primary source of information. Even if schools use Wiki, I would like to see a paper turned in as a final draft with Wiki as a primary source.

-------------------------------------------------------

http://www.inside-mexico.com/featurecinco.htm

" Nowadays, Cinco de Mayo is celebrated though out the country, but very especially in the state of Puebla and in Mexico City.

There are military parades as a way of paying tribute to all the heroes, soldiers and civilians that gave their lives for their country. Schools participate in parades too. It takes months of rehearsal and preparation for marching bands to perform and compete among others to be the best. Parades are so popular that people wake up very early and rush to the streets seeking a good spot to watch and enjoy them.

In the Peñón de los Baños, a small barrio or neighborhood in Mexico City, very near the airport, the people organize a very popular representation of the Cinco de Mayo battle. This play is a tradition that the people of the Peñón have kept alive for many years. Some of the inhabitants play the French invaders and others the Mexican army. They even have fights with real gunpowder rifles! And sometimes they do get hurt.
"


It might also be worthwhile to point out that because of the H1N1, the celebrations were called off and caused a riot in the Puebla state of Mexico as well as in the Yacutan.

I am not going to say that Cinco de Mayo isn't bigger in the US than it is in Mexico, because that wouldn't be true, but the fact of the matter is that it is still widely celebrated in Mexico on a more low key basis throughout the country with the biggest celebration in Puebla, kind of like Mardi Gras is huge in New Orleans, but other places in the US celebrate it as well, just not in that kind of style.

[Sonthert]

That was just an ignorant comment.

Let me get this straight...you're studying religion and your questioning the accuracy of something?

An ignorant comment? Haha. I don't believe in Santa Claus either. It was a joke. Joke. See I used Wiki again. Funny.

I don't see the basis of your assertion that my comment is ignorant, nor do I see what part of my comments you thought were ignorant...so, I'll respond to the ones you might disagree with.

I have a whole host of comments that I could offer regarding the mystical mumbo jumbo of religion, none of them ignorant. You're trying to rectify the inaccuracies of the bible? Isn't Occam's Razor applying somewhere right around here? Old science books are inaccurate in places because knowledge changes and the books are updated. The bible is inherently static, so it can't be accurate. Why study it? Its the nature of a static work, that it is inaccurate...assuming, which I never have, that it was ever accurate by in large in the first place. Most works of fiction have, at the time of writing, contemporaneous references to actual places, people and events...it doesn't make the book accurate or historical. Using the word fiction, although I've been known to for rhetorical impact, is a little unfair since the bible employs multiple rhetorical modes and non-fiction doesn't have to be entirely accurate to be non-fiction. Suffice it to say, I think the bible is hokum. Wikipedia is just as useful a source as the bible. Both contain inaccuracies, both are offered as factual...if you're willing to dismiss Wikipedia because its not scholarly due t its inherent inaccuracies...then why study the Bible...isn't it a double standard?

I have four Mexican friends sitting right here...I just asked them and they have no idea what you're talking about. They say Cinco de Mayo isn't widely celebrated, in fact they say most Mexicans just ignore it. They're shaking their head, like "huh?" They don't celebrate it any more than we celebrate the Battle of Bunker Hill. I reiterated your statements to them and they're saying things like "Huh? Nah. Nothing like that." They agree with my statements and Wiki's regarding the observance of Cinco de Mayo in Mexico...so...now what? I think between my experience, living 25 miles from Mexico for 37 years, four Mexicans I just asked and Wikipedia's comments, you'd be ready to accept that its observance is quite limited in Mexico. I'm sure they have historical recreationists in Mexico, the same as we have here, recreating this Civil War battle and that battle over there...is that what you saw? There are historical recreationists that recreate the Battle of Bunker Hill on its anniversary, but it doesn't mean that its widely observed.

I think we agree more than disagree, only in the matter of god and the bible do we disagree strongly, you believe its worthy of study, I put religious books and gods in the same category as "Lord of the Rings".

I am still working on Lime for you though man. Each day I think about Lime I think "FSU man wants Lime.", I have the highest regard for you, just so you know my statements are NOT meant from a position of lack of respect for you.

[inino]

I live in Ca, been to mexico more than 20 times, 2 on cinco de mayo and the only part of mexico that was celebrating the holiday was TJ, which is really not even "Mexico". Most of the people celebrating it were all driving cars from california and probably not even Mexican.

And I have seen some "scholarly articles" that were more biased and inaccurate than wiki's. Just because someone doesnt have the ability to write a scholarly article doesnt mean their information is not credible. I think everyone remembers their high school, and intro University classes where they warned you to never even think of wikipedia, but lets be realistic, most of the information is useful, and if it is a subject of importance chances are so many people edit it that it is bound to correct info.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

mmmmmm, Corona. I knew I was avoiding reading through this thread for some reason

[Sonthert]

You can see Tijuana from the street next to my lounge.

[inino]

You can see Tijuana from the street next to my lounge.

Good old TJ, only place where the good, the bad, and the ugly all combine into a beautiful utopia of stripclubs, bars, and restaurants. Now for some real fish tacos, rosarito or even ensanda is where it's at.