Lime Wire Trap!

[Sapphire]

Yesterday my brother was arested and is now being charged with " possesing child porn & exploiting children"

READ THIS : http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12312905

About a month ago, he started to dable in dowloading "NORMAL porn " on a site called Lime wire. As he is LDS... this was a well kept secret , as it is VERY against the Mormon church.
Well he had selected to download like 300 videos . And once the thumb nails started popping asking if he wanted to complete downloads for each one..he came across 9 of them that were kiddie porn. 9... out of 300.. and he selected " no " and deleted the files, only keeping the NORMAL porn.

Well low and behold...one of the 9 were bugged with a tracker from the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force. So they got a warrent to search his lap top. He let them as he was not worried since he NEVER DOWN LOADED any of them.
And after they searched it.. they even put in the reports that the vids were NEVER DOWNLOADED, and that he had clicked " no " when he was asked if the download should complete.
BUT..... they are charging him with 9 FELONY counts of " ATTEMPTED DOWNLOAD OF CHILD PORN!!!!"

Now the news, papers, and media are all twisting story ..and my brother who contributes EVERYTHING he IS to HELP people... is having his reputaion dragged through the mud .
He is the head fire captian, paramedic of the year and the current president of the Wasatch Triathlon Co., a business he began with a fellow firefighter to aid amateur triathletes. He's also listed as the founder of the Frandsen Kimball Foundation, wich helps infants with life threatening diseases for god sake !
Anyone who KNOWS him would know that he would NEVER have done this.. ( AS THE LEGAL DOCUMENTS EVEN SHOW! )
But even when this gets thrown out...his reputation will for ever be dammaged, his job lost...and the Church that he loves so much could excommunicate him.

Anyone else ever had anything happen like this?

Oh..and BTW... BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU " CLICK " when downloading from LIME WIRE ! its full of bugged shit ! and due to the patriot act...the government can hold you accountable for ANYTHING you click on , even if you dont get a full download.

Anyway..nedless to say. The fam is in an uproar with the media crap on this. Any advice would be wonderfull.

[AKammenzind]

Anyone else?

But yeah, I hate shit like that... hope painful deaths for everyone on the other side.

[thecyrax]

Wow, that's terrible.

Hope this all blows over in the end.

[shaffaaf27]

lol, tell him to get a gf or torrent.... limewire wtf, deserved

[Rani]

One: Retain a lawyer who is either very PR friendly, or get a separate PR person to fight and spin the local media blitz if necessary.

Two: No religious organization worthy of the name would fail to forgive someone who truly and whole heartedly seeks absolution for a temporary lapse in judgement by failing to follow "accepted" dogma.

Three and you're not going to like this one: People know there is no way for you to personally guarantee your brothers involvement is exactly as you believe it to be unless you were physically present at the time. That's not to say you're not right about your brothers actions, but John Q Public is going to believe, quite logically, that you didn't know of your brothers involvement and as a supportive brother believe the tale he is telling you. What's more, historically pedophiles rarely disclose their inclinations to their family members for fear and the public is also aware of this which puts you back into the "they didn't know" category.

My suggestion is that you stand by him, your faith in him, and give him whatever assistance you can in whatever way you can. Being vocal won't help him and will in fact bring out the worst in people on this particular subject. Should you be asked, I suggest you say only that you believe completely in your brothers innocence and trust that the facts will prove it in court. Anything else would possibly hinder his attorney's actions and further stir up the public against your brother.

Lastly....... What on earth was his thinking by just clicking no? The moment child porn popped up requesting a download he should have walked away from the keyboard, leaving it paused on his screen, and made a call to the authorities. As a firefighter he certain has access to local law enforcement and he should have reported it immediately which among other things would have cleared his name from the get-go. I know hindsight is 20-20, but still.... Considering the subject matter he should have reported it immediately. Otherwise how will it ever stop? I'm sorry but anyone not reporting it is indirectly contributing to it.

Perhaps there's a reason for this. Who better to fight child pornography than someone unjustly accused and proven innocent? It could be that your brother may find his real purpose at the end of thiis difficult road.

'Rani

[Vampy6997]

Your brother would be good with an adult industry knowledgeable lawyer. Limewire is bad though because even if the cp is dropped, there's possibly copyrighted material, and the prosecutor might be all for prosecuting just to prosecute (severe boredom)....300 videos= 300 individual copyrights...

All porn/adult material requires 2557 access/knowledge of compliance by the receiving party (ie-if you go on any given porn site, there will be at the entrance, a 2257 compliance statement--of which, the link will bring you to a link that has the physical address of all 2257 compliance paperwork, which is required to be manned "full time" or approx 30+ hrs/week.). You cannot get this info by downloading porn on LimeWire. It's almost like a person running in front of a car. The driver could get "involuntary manslaughter" even if there was nothing he could do, just because he decided to get in the car and drive that day...the "intention" isn't there, but there's not much protection if it happens.

Get a reputable alternative newspaper or two to get your brother's side of the story as well.

Also, as stated....you and your fam. can't vouch for your brother any more than anyone else. If you were to vouch, it can look incestuous....How would you [logically] know unless you were there. That doesn't mean you had to be there to take his word for it. He might be able to do lie detector tests, sodium pentathol, stuff like that, to prove he's telling the truth. Not sure if prosecutors would accept that, but it could be the only saving thing for him...

[Tati]

I hope everything turns out well.
Good luck!

[coplinb]

I gotta say first, that I feel for your brother and the trouble he's in, but if he is illegally downloading things from the internet, what ever it may be, how is it a 'trap' for someone to put bugs in it, to track who downloads what and how much? He shouldn't have been downloading things in the first place, but I don't think that they should charge him with felony counts of downloading child porn, because he didn't, but if he was to get into trouble, they should make him pay for a portion of everything he did download, just like they would if he had been downloading music. Piracy is piracy, but to try and hit him with child porn charges IS a bit much.

[coplinb]

lol, tell him to get a gf or torrent.... limewire wtf, deserved

I think a post in the "Serious Discussion Forum' should be serious.

[newjacksm]

I feel bad for your brother he should rush out and get a lawyer and a pr person. Reach out to non bias media. Everyone looks at porn and anyone with a half a brain will realize went wrong. It's unfortunate that this is a kind of an embarrassing subject but porn is not looked down upon like it use to be ( at least as much ) your brother could even possibly get a following going on.

[Zinite]

Look into the EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation). They're kind of like the ACLU in the sense that they defend people who are charged with electronic crimes when a lot of people don't understand the technology behind it. If what you're saying is true (that he deleted it without watching it), they should be able to ascertain that rather easily.

http://www.eff.org/

[newjacksm]

I sent the guy an E-Mail because your story pissed me off and it realized how much I hate the media and how they will try and make a story sound so bad so they can sell papers..


Gov Spitzer of NY with the prostitutes anyone? Guess what he was aquitted like 5 months later and his reputation is tarnished because of it. Fuck bias media and media that just wants $$$

[Bye bye now have fun]

get the EFF. they are totally awesome. nothing like thinking of the kids

[TheScotsman]

One: Retain a lawyer who is either very PR friendly, or get a separate PR person to fight and spin the local media blitz if necessary.

Two: No religious organization worthy of the name would fail to forgive someone who truly and whole heartedly seeks absolution for a temporary lapse in judgement by failing to follow "accepted" dogma.

Three and you're not going to like this one: People know there is no way for you to personally guarantee your brothers involvement is exactly as you believe it to be unless you were physically present at the time. That's not to say you're not right about your brothers actions, but John Q Public is going to believe, quite logically, that you didn't know of your brothers involvement and as a supportive brother believe the tale he is telling you. What's more, historically pedophiles rarely disclose their inclinations to their family members for fear and the public is also aware of this which puts you back into the "they didn't know" category.

My suggestion is that you stand by him, your faith in him, and give him whatever assistance you can in whatever way you can. Being vocal won't help him and will in fact bring out the worst in people on this particular subject. Should you be asked, I suggest you say only that you believe completely in your brothers innocence and trust that the facts will prove it in court. Anything else would possibly hinder his attorney's actions and further stir up the public against your brother.

Lastly....... What on earth was his thinking by just clicking no? The moment child porn popped up requesting a download he should have walked away from the keyboard, leaving it paused on his screen, and made a call to the authorities. As a firefighter he certain has access to local law enforcement and he should have reported it immediately which among other things would have cleared his name from the get-go. I know hindsight is 20-20, but still.... Considering the subject matter he should have reported it immediately. Otherwise how will it ever stop? I'm sorry but anyone not reporting it is indirectly contributing to it.

Perhaps there's a reason for this. Who better to fight child pornography than someone unjustly accused and proven innocent? It could be that your brother may find his real purpose at the end of thiis difficult road.

'Rani

100% agreed.
There is a disturbing trend among gov't agencies looking to justify a budget, create a crime then go enforce it to fill the bunks in the private-owned prisons... but that is another thread. It used to be that such an action by LEO would be considered entrapment, but once the law & order get tough on crime crowd got their hands into it, they redefined attempted to include turning down the opportunity to commit a crime.

It's a bit like charging anyone that walks past an open car window with attempted theft of the stereo.

Most important... keep the mouth closed, and the eyes open for the rest of the trap.

[Vladimir]

I will pray for your family, I can't imagine the pain and stress this is causing!

[Bye bye now have fun]

i was walking home with a beer in my backpack side pouch and some pig wooted me and was talking abou me not walking srainght and i told him i cant due to my surgery and showed himmy id and he asked what was in my back pack and i told him it was a mya qt and tangier and a phunnel and showed him im scared because now i face 90 days in the slammer. ive had 7 beers since 1030 and its 145 its bullshit

[jeremyk]

that sucks

[Sapphire]

Update:

He got a GREAT lawyer ! The first thing the guy did was address the media about how much FALSE info was put out.
The case will run its course, but its going to get thrown out. The evidence is OBVIOUS that he did nothing wrong other than be a Normal guy who wanted to look at some normal porn. ( AS ALL GUYS DO )
He is on a "leave" from work till after the case and we are all in hopes that once it is over he can go back, but as far as friends, neighbors, church members.....
His reputation is TOAST. There will always be those idiot "belivers" who pull their kids into the house when he goes to walk his fucking dog.
They may even have to move.

The entire thing sucks balls.

Anyway... thanks for all the support. I will keep updating .

Sapph*

[Thermo]

Update:

He got a GREAT lawyer ! The first thing the guy did was address the media about how much FALSE info was put out.
The case will run its course, but its going to get thrown out. The evidence is OBVIOUS that he did nothing wrong other than be a Normal guy who wanted to look at some normal porn. ( AS ALL GUYS DO )
He is on a "leave" from work till after the case and we are all in hopes that once it is over he can go back, but as far as friends, neighbors, church members.....
His reputation is TOAST. There will always be those idiot "belivers" who pull their kids into the house when he goes to walk his fucking dog.
They may even have to move.

The entire thing sucks balls.

Anyway... thanks for all the support. I will keep updating .

Sapph*

It's good at least that he'll be legally cleared.

Then I think it will be time to move to the East Coast or somewhere.

Most of the commenting I've seen on this in news sites (you know the newspaper sites with 'comment on this article' buttons underneath) are focused on the Mormon church rather than on your brother. The amount of LDS-bashing is so distracting they might even forget his name. Edited May 13, 2009 by Thermo

[newjacksm]

Update:

He got a GREAT lawyer ! The first thing the guy did was address the media about how much FALSE info was put out.
The case will run its course, but its going to get thrown out. The evidence is OBVIOUS that he did nothing wrong other than be a Normal guy who wanted to look at some normal porn. ( AS ALL GUYS DO )
He is on a "leave" from work till after the case and we are all in hopes that once it is over he can go back, but as far as friends, neighbors, church members.....
His reputation is TOAST. There will always be those idiot "belivers" who pull their kids into the house when he goes to walk his fucking dog.
They may even have to move.

The entire thing sucks balls.

Anyway... thanks for all the support. I will keep updating .

Sapph*

I am glad it really REALLY got me mad, I never got an E-Mail back from the journalist...

[Sapphire]

Yea... I mean we still have a ways to go.... And it the lawyer said he is positive this won't even make it to trial. He said it is normal for the government to go after " Outstanding citizens " in order to make an " example " out of them, because it makes a bigger impact than if the
" jo shmo next door " is looked at for the same thing.

Of course..there is still a lot to deal with and it could still get sticky... but I think things will end up ok.

[mustang_steve]

When he wins, he should sue the police for as much money as he can for harm to reputation due to the arrest, and also press for the arrest records to be permanently expunged....the news reports will still stand, but with enough time that can be washed away.

Also look into going after them if they fail to return his computer...it may seem small beans, but police love keeping personal computers for their own needs....thus are common thieves.

Basically, make their lives hell for making his hell. Edited May 13, 2009 by mustang_steve

[Sapphire]

When he wins, he should sue the police for as much money as he can for harm to reputation due to the arrest, and also press for the arrest records to be permanently expunged....the news reports will still stand, but with enough time that can be washed away.

Also look into going after them if they fail to return his computer...it may seem small beans, but police love keeping personal computers for their own needs....thus are common thieves.

Basically, make their lives hell for making his hell.

Oh yea.. totaly on it. His record would HAVE to be 100% expunged in order for him to remain a fire fighter. And as far as being sued... YOU BET! They are already on it. His job tried to force him to quit, but he did not. So if they fire him and he is cleared...he will sue the pants off of them for all the time and money lost, plus his loss of a career.
This guy is a HAMMER !

[Mndgame]

I'm sort of confused so he did download them, but some thumbnail comes up asking if you want to complete the download? When I used limewire (long ago) this never happened to me, downloads simply finished there is no authorization to finish the download, that would get annoying. I no longer have/want/ever want limewire again, but someone should queue some downloads to see if it asks if you'd like to finish? Never seen that on any file sharing software... Edited May 13, 2009 by Mndgame

[Tuscani]

I'm sort of confused so he did download them, but some thumbnail comes up asking if you want to complete the download? When I used limewire (long ago) this never happened to me, downloads simply finished there is no authorization to finish the download, that would get annoying. I no longer have/want/ever want limewire again, but someone should queue some downloads to see if it asks if you'd like to finish? Never seen that on any file sharing software...

programs update, I know what he is refering to. You should look up the newer versions of limewire, rather than the version you used "long ago".