Things Have Gone To Far

[Charley]

smoking banned in your own home?


this is just stupid plain and simple.

this is not the woman's apartment complex telling her she can not smoke its the city telling her she can not smoke.


I have lived in places where the landlord told me I could not smoke and i have always respected that, but like i said this is not her landlord this is the city.

what do you think? would you obey the law. would you move. would you protest.

If this happend in my town I would defendantly make my voice heard.

(and I have made my voice heard a few times on smoking bans in the town i worked in.)

[Canon]

its bullshit, the whole reasons the smoking ban was started was to "protect" those who didnt smoke. it seems that politicians are trying to babysit us with laws. no smoking in bars, restraunts or hookah bars (because we are too stupid to not go to a smoking restraunt if it bothers us). no smoking in your house. really? your house..

[Tuscani]

whats next? people can't smoke in their cars?

[Charley]

In parts of Indiana you can not if your passengers are under 18.

[RingsMaster]

this is rediculous, you have the right to do whatever you want in your own home(legal things mind you), the fact that they are banning smoking in your own home i would think is illegal, since when can you be told what to do with you OWN property.

[Sonthert]

I think the problem here is the overarching control of government. 25 years ago, the idea of the government making a law that affected people's activities in their own homes was unthinkable. If they find out that christianity is bad for your health...will they ban religion, next? If we let the government make laws about what we do in our homes, and the police follow, then it is a Police State.

[delSol_si]

I like that ban, except I think they need to amend it a little. I am all for banning smoking anywhere where someone 18 or younger is forced to go. For example, if a parent has a child living with them (anyone from 0-18) then they should not be allowed to smoke inside. They are harming their child's health by doing so.

It really pisses me off a great deal with I see someone smoking a cigg in their car and have their children (especially babies) in the car with them. That is not fair at all. Not to mention bad parenting.

On the other hand, if you are living by yourself or with other people that don't mind the smoke or are of legal age to move out if they so want to, then sure, you should be able to smoke in your house.

At the same time though, hookah is different, it doesn't linger and smell like asshole.

Thats my

[delSol_si]

I think the problem here is the overarching control of government. 25 years ago, the idea of the government making a law that affected people's activities in their own homes was unthinkable. If they find out that christianity is bad for your health...will they ban religion, next? If we let the government make laws about what we do in our homes, and the police follow, then it is a Police State.

No offense, but you can't really compare Christianity to smoking. Two totally different things. If I start preaching to you, ya it may annoy you or anger you, but it cannot possibly kill you or have ANY affect once you are no longer within listening range of me. Smoking on the other hand, can kill you long after you have left its presence.

[Imsomint]

whats next? people can't smoke in their cars?

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/514.asp

[Charley]

so your telling me its wrong for me to smoke in a car when my 17 year old cousin is with me who smokes more than i do? under the law he is a minor there for in some places in my state I can receive a pretty hefty fine for lighting up with him in my car.


also parents and/or adults placed in charge of minors are in charge of there well being if a parent chooses to expose there children to smoke that's there choice. its the same as if a parent feeds there obese child nothing but bigmacs and quarter ponders. its disgust me but its not my business and its not yours or the governments. and I am not saying trying to educate them is wrong I am saying flat out telling them dont do that is wrong.

and I am not going to go in depth on Christianity but I live in the heart of the bible belt and I can tell you I have seen parents fuck there children up far worse with religion than a 5 pack a day smoker with 3 kids on chemo ever could.

(fine i will go a little more in depth on it when i was a kid around 10 years old I went to school with a kid who tried to cut his own penis off because his overly religious mother had him convinced daemons caused erections. I also have read about a girl who's mother made her scrub her genitals with steal wool because she was talking to a boy. i Will try to find a link to that one. I also know ppl who refuse medical treatment on the basis of "oh my child is sick it must be gods will.")

I am not trying to offend you or start a debate on religion mind you but you seem to have it in your head that it cant hurt ppl. even as an adult it has hurt me. I am an atheist. I have had ppl attack me for that. I have had ppl spit on me. I even had one guy follow me home and stand outside my door and read the bible out loud till called the cops on him. and like i said im not trying to start a debate or offend you. I am just pointing out anything even if it is with the good intentions that are supposed to be the basis for religion can be harmful.

I personally do not smoke around anyone who dose not smoke especially kids. the only time I make an exception to that rule is if i am already smoking and a non smoker comes over to where I am at. the way i see it i was there first so it is there choice to expose themselves to my smoke. (I do put it out if that person is to young to know that my smoke is hurting them. IE a 5 year old walks up to me when I am smoking I put it out. a 20 year old walks up to me I keep smoking.)
when I watch someones kid and I need a smoke I go to a different room or i step outside for a moment. and if i ever become a father I would do the same with my kid until he or she is old enough to know that my smoke is hurting them (and that I feel they are responsible enough to understand and make a decision about there health. such as with my nephew he is 14 and he knows what smoking can do to him, and he understands it also. knowing and understanding are two different things. he dose not smoke so i dont light up around him but if i am already smoking I dont put it out. now my niece who is 1 year younger I put it out if she comes near me because she knows my smoke is bad for her but she dose not understand it yet, and I think it will be many years before she actually dose.)

telling a parent they can not do something around there own kid opens to many doors you may not want your brother to smoke around his kids but hey guess what if you get the right to tell him he can not do that that opens up the door to telling him he cant let his kid listen to rap music or watch violent movies (and yes I dont like the idea of kids doing either one of those) but that then in turn opens up more doors and soon there is someone telling that parent hey you cant let your kid read Huck fin because one of the characters names is nigger Jim (I hate that word and the only time i will use it is if it is in the context of literature or quotation. and I am sorry if I offend you or anyone by quoting that name. I personaly believe some ppl are better than others yes but its there actions that makes it so not there skin color, sexual preference, or gender. and also I belive that even the worst person can change themselves to become better. sadly most will never do so.)


but anyway back to the original subject this law is not about smoking around kids its the government telling adults that they can not smoke in there own homes even if they live alone. I for one support the landlords right to say I dont want you smoking in this place as long as its stated in the lease and your know about it and agree to it before you move in. but to have Big Brother walse in your door and say hey you can not do that in here even tho you live here is wrong.

I have lived in places where I was not allowed to smoke and I always respected the right of the landlord to tell me that(as i said as long as they tell me that before I move in.) and I have lived in places where I had to pay a deposit to smoke. (fresh new paint turned all yellow and needs to be redone after A smoker moves out kind of thing)

I know I am kind of rambling and being a bit redundant but its early and I want to make sure I say everything I want to say the first time.

[K1024]

I think the problem here is the overarching control of government. 25 years ago, the idea of the government making a law that affected people's activities in their own homes was unthinkable. If they find out that christianity is bad for your health...will they ban religion, next? If we let the government make laws about what we do in our homes, and the police follow, then it is a Police State.

No offense, but you can't really compare Christianity to smoking. Two totally different things. If I start preaching to you, ya it may annoy you or anger you, but it cannot possibly kill you or have ANY affect once you are no longer within listening range of me. Smoking on the other hand, can kill you long after you have left its presence.

name me 5 wars that werent started because of religion....

at any rate, i agree with everything Charley has said, in that you shouldnt smoke around your kids, but you should be able to smoke in your own house (assuming landlord is ok with it).

Kids now a days are so over baby sat, and over taken care of. I am only 19, but when I was a kid my parents spanked me when I did something really wrong, now thats considered abusive behavior. Well if thats considered abusive, then my parents must have had fucked up childhoods, never mind my grandparents.

On another note, children are getting less and less exposed to colds/disease. I feel this next generation is going to have a really weak immune system...which will cause all sorts of problems for them im sure.

[ColibriDon]

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. - Thomas Jefferson

Truth.

Yet another win for big government. Why in the hell does the government think that it is necessary to tell people what to do--in their homes, in private? How does my smoking in my house affect anybody else? If this kind of ban were to try to reach national enforcement, I would become an ex-pat (Read: Revolutionary). Simply amazing that these kind of laws could even be considered.

Smoking bans in general are absurd. If the establishment chooses to not let people smoke in their place of business, then that should be ONE of their choices, not the ONLY one. While I can buy the whole "We don't want to expose people to smoke who don't want to be exposed to smoke" argument, banning smoking in places like bars and cigar/hookah bars is simply the grandest display of ignorance and shortsightedness I have ever seen. If you're in a bar and you don't want to be exposed to smoke then go to a non-smoking bar. (I know, it's really complicated. )

By executing these bans, the government is further alienating the smoking population of its country.

The people who think this is "right" or "ok" are just the kind of people who will be surprised when the government finally bans something they enjoy doing in their homes. Hopefully, by the time the majority of the population wakes up in this country, it won't be too late.

I'm not even going to touch the children argument except to say that it is all personal preference and the responsibility of the parents. (Once again, I know, it's really complicated.)

[delSol_si]

so your telling me its wrong for me to smoke in a car when my 17 year old cousin is with me who smokes more than i do? under the law he is a minor there for in some places in my state I can receive a pretty hefty fine for lighting up with him in my car.

Yes, that is exactly what I am telling you. Him smoking is irrelevant because he is too young to be smoking in the first place, two wrongs DONT make a right.


also parents and/or adults placed in charge of minors are in charge of there well being if a parent chooses to expose there children to smoke that's there choice. its the same as if a parent feeds there obese child nothing but bigmacs and quarter ponders. its disgust me but its not my business and its not yours or the governments. and I am not saying trying to educate them is wrong I am saying flat out telling them dont do that is wrong.

It is not their choice. My family has done foster care for my entire life. I have helped raise and take care of well over 25 kids and babies. You know how many fucked up kids and babies I have seen because of smoking? LOTS. Yes, feeding obese kids lots of fatty foods is bad, but it is a lot easier to say "no smoking" rather than "you can only feed your kid 1000 calories per day." I would be completely impossible for the government to keep track of each and every kids dietary intake. It is ok to have a bigmac or something similar once in awhile, just not al the time. It is NOT ok for a child to be around second hand smoke once in awhile.

and I am not going to go in depth on Christianity but I live in the heart of the bible belt and I can tell you I have seen parents fuck there children up far worse with religion than a 5 pack a day smoker with 3 kids on chemo ever could.

(fine i will go a little more in depth on it when i was a kid around 10 years old I went to school with a kid who tried to cut his own penis off because his overly religious mother had him convinced daemons caused erections. I also have read about a girl who's mother made her scrub her genitals with steal wool because she was talking to a boy. i Will try to find a link to that one. I also know ppl who refuse medical treatment on the basis of "oh my child is sick it must be gods will.")

These parents are not true Christians. A true Christian parent would not do that. That is called fake Christianity. This is similar to me making a bullshit hookah that falls apart and then calling it a KM. Even if it looks like a KM, it still isn't. Is if fair to KM for people to judge them based upon the impostor I have created? NO! Same deal. I am getting so fucking sick of everyone blaming Christians that kind of bullshit you are talking about. Any actual Christian would never condone any of that behavior. If you want to say "ban on fake Christianity" I am totally cool with that.

I am not trying to offend you or start a debate on religion mind you but you seem to have it in your head that it cant hurt ppl. even as an adult it has hurt me. I am an atheist. I have had ppl attack me for that. I have had ppl spit on me. I even had one guy follow me home and stand outside my door and read the bible out loud till called the cops on him. and like i said im not trying to start a debate or offend you. I am just pointing out anything even if it is with the good intentions that are supposed to be the basis for religion can be harmful.

My response to this is similar to my previous one. Those people are not true Christians. Christians are about love and support, not hate. A Christian will show love toward you no matter what. They will try tell you of you wrong ways and support you to come on the right path with the Lord who loves you very much, but they will not spit on you or hate you.

I personally do not smoke around anyone who dose not smoke especially kids. the only time I make an exception to that rule is if i am already smoking and a non smoker comes over to where I am at. the way i see it i was there first so it is there choice to expose themselves to my smoke. (I do put it out if that person is to young to know that my smoke is hurting them. IE a 5 year old walks up to me when I am smoking I put it out. a 20 year old walks up to me I keep smoking.)

I actually don't think you should have to put out your cigg in this case. It was their choice to walk up to you. What I am against is when the child DOESNT have a choice.

when I watch someones kid and I need a smoke I go to a different room or i step outside for a moment. and if i ever become a father I would do the same with my kid until he or she is old enough to know that my smoke is hurting them (and that I feel they are responsible enough to understand and make a decision about there health. such as with my nephew he is 14 and he knows what smoking can do to him, and he understands it also. knowing and understanding are two different things. he dose not smoke so i dont light up around him but if i am already smoking I dont put it out. now my niece who is 1 year younger I put it out if she comes near me because she knows my smoke is bad for her but she dose not understand it yet, and I think it will be many years before she actually dose.)

Again, two wrong don't make a right. I don't think kids are able to comprehend the harm of ciggs well enough to make an educated choice. Example: I used to professionally bowl. My parents warned me about the harms of second hand smoke when I first got into it. I was like "ya, but its not that big of a deal." Now that I am older, I regret that decision. I don't feel I was mature enough to make that decision for myself.

telling a parent they can not do something around there own kid opens to many doors you may not want your brother to smoke around his kids but hey guess what if you get the right to tell him he can not do that that opens up the door to telling him he cant let his kid listen to rap music or watch violent movies (and yes I dont like the idea of kids doing either one of those) but that then in turn opens up more doors and soon there is someone telling that parent hey you cant let your kid read Huck fin because one of the characters names is nigger Jim (I hate that word and the only time i will use it is if it is in the context of literature or quotation. and I am sorry if I offend you or anyone by quoting that name. I personaly believe some ppl are better than others yes but its there actions that makes it so not there skin color, sexual preference, or gender. and also I belive that even the worst person can change themselves to become better. sadly most will never do so.)

Again, totally different than smoking. Smoking has been proven to harm health. And just to clarify, ONE person here and there living for 50 years while smoking 2 packs a day means nothing. Compare that to how many people DO die or have health issues from it. I guarantee you the odds are at least 100:1 in favor of ciggs being a health issue.

but anyway back to the original subject this law is not about smoking around kids its the government telling adults that they can not smoke in there own homes even if they live alone. I for one support the landlords right to say I dont want you smoking in this place as long as its stated in the lease and your know about it and agree to it before you move in. but to have Big Brother walse in your door and say hey you can not do that in here even tho you live here is wrong.

Agreed, my only point is that I don't think an adult should be allowed to smoke around kids in a situation where the kid has no choice. But, sometimes the law has to be "all or none" as it would be immensely difficult to go around and check every door to make sure there aren't children living there. It is easier and more efficient to ban it as a whole. Plus, I feel that if you compare the good this ban does to the bad and unfair, I feel that it is totally worth it. If a few adults get pissed about it, fuck em.

I have lived in places where I was not allowed to smoke and I always respected the right of the landlord to tell me that(as i said as long as they tell me that before I move in.) and I have lived in places where I had to pay a deposit to smoke. (fresh new paint turned all yellow and needs to be redone after A smoker moves out kind of thing)

I know I am kind of rambling and being a bit redundant but its early and I want to make sure I say everything I want to say the first time.

I would like to say that these are all my OPINIONS. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. If you feel differently than I do, that is totally fine. And Charley, this is NOT meant as a bash against you at all, so no hard feelings at all. This is not an attack against you, simply a debate on opinions. And I do respect your and everyone else's opinions, I am just simply rebutting them with my own opinions. Edited June 1, 2009 by delSol_si

[delSol_si]

I would also like to add, I do think todays youth is over babied. BUT there is a different between a scraped knee and a bumped head than fucked up lungs. You can fix a bruise or a bump, you can't fix a lung.

And, I am all for smoking bans in general, except when they ban hookah. I moved to Illinois for the summer and there is a smoking ban. I absolutely love it. I was able to go to the local bar and shoot some pool without having to smell the stench of ciggs. Do I believe this is fair? Hell no. Do I like it? Yes! I know it is my choice to go or not to go into the bar, but it is nice being able to enjoy a beer and a game of pool without smelling ciggs.

[Vladimir]

And, I am all for smoking bans in general, except when they ban hookah.

Well there shouldn't be any problems then! Oh wait, Mush has his problems because some guys have the same attitude as you- "I'm all for a smoking ban as long as my cigar bar gets an okay." This is America, I should be able to smoke in my house, and smoke in a bar if the owner of that bar has so decided that I can, because this is just another chip at our rights and soon we won't have any left. The fact that I can open a business, and not decide how to use that business within the confines of the law is ridiculous. If they want to criminalize cigarettes, then they should try and criminalize cigarettes. Instead they know they would never get away with that, so they are using democracy to destroy our rights to enforce their narrow idea of how the world should be. The problem is a bunch of people already figured out how the world should be, back in 1776, and these people left pretty good instructions too. Big surprise that we suck at following them though.

[Sherwood]

25 years ago, the idea of the government making a law that affected people's activities in their own homes was unthinkable.

Unless, you know, you wanted to engage in sodomy in your home: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowers_v._Hardwick

[tinyj316]

I really don't think its the governments place to ban anything other than murder, rape, theft, etc....

We all saw how prohibition worked out...

[Stuie]

Okay before we go crazy here. Let's look at what was said. No smoking in Condos, or apartments.

As much as I hate to say it they do kinda have a point... when I lived in apartment. Let's say my neighbor set his apartment on fire, I lose everything I own because he lives below me... odds are he doesn't have renters insurance. So who's liable...The Apartment Complex.

If I am in a my own house on my lot it's a bit different. I set my house on fire, unless it's a drought, the likelihood of it spreading to the neighbors is minimal.

I mean most dorms are no smoking for that very reason.

In the long run what really is happening is reducing the potential for fires in multi-family complexes, by doing so the insurance rates for those places have to drop, because a major factor has been removed by law.

It's always about the money people!

[Charley]

Okay before we go crazy here. Let's look at what was said. No smoking in Condos, or apartments.

As much as I hate to say it they do kinda have a point... when I lived in apartment. Let's say my neighbor set his apartment on fire, I lose everything I own because he lives below me... odds are he doesn't have renters insurance. So who's liable...The Apartment Complex.

If I am in a my own house on my lot it's a bit different. I set my house on fire, unless it's a drought, the likelihood of it spreading to the neighbors is minimal.

I mean most dorms are no smoking for that very reason.

In the long run what really is happening is reducing the potential for fires in multi-family complexes, by doing so the insurance rates for those places have to drop, because a major factor has been removed by law.

It's always about the money people!

thats not the point of this law. its to stop second hand smoke from "going through your walls" into the apartment of a non smoker.

[Charley]

under what you said they would have to ban hotplates, candles, insents, stoves, matches, lighters, ect.......

[Stuie]

under what you said they would have to ban hotplates, candles, insents, stoves, matches, lighters, ect.......

Thanks for ruining my conspiracy theory... not i gotta connect 2 more random things... Polar Bears ... and.... Dropping Bee Population... alright to the drawing board again.

True what you said. I think it should only be mandated if they complexes have shared ventilation... only way that would cause a problem.

[Vladimir]

On top of that Charley- I still believe if the complex wants to lower their insurance rates THEY could ban smoking. I'm not allowed to smoke in my rental, and that's fine with me.

[Charley]

yes I agree with you on that but that is up to the owner to say not the government.

[TheScotsman]

I think the problem here is the overarching control of government. 25 years ago, the idea of the government making a law that affected people's activities in their own homes was unthinkable. If they find out that christianity is bad for your health...will they ban religion, next? If we let the government make laws about what we do in our homes, and the police follow, then it is a Police State.

Ok, who let the aliens abduct Sonthert, and substitute him with a small-gov Libertarian sort? Someone go check for a strange green pod with a faceless body in it growing in his office.

Seriously, though, just wait until you see what happens when the "gubermint" gets their healthcare in place. After all, if you do anything that could negatively impact your health, they will have a say in where, when and more IF you can do it. Why would you expect anything different? They have proven over, and over, that there will be opressive, and far reaching implications any time they get their fingers into something.

Don't blame me... I didn't vote for them.

I think we need a "smoking in your home" czar to cordinate the assault on that potential hideous crime.